Balanced Pvp Could Lead To A Balanced Pve?

[VoidPunch]

So after reading the Building Warframe: PvP 2.0 review and how they are handling it I was wondering if this may lead to a more balanced and skill based PvE. I'm not talking about nerfing things necessarily, or even that the changes made in PvP will spill over into the PvE side of things, but more shifting the focus towards skill and rewarding players for their skill and execution rather then their ability to do straight DPS. 

 

Now by all means the game is great and fun how it is but I see a plethora of threads on balancing but most seem to redo the entire game or just change Warframe into something it is not.

 

The part about talking out crits in favor of damage multipliers on head shots have been something I have wanted (and I've seen suggested every so often on the forums) This system requires more skill and you are rewarded for good aim and execution rather then simply relying on RNG. Removing crits chance and having them guaranteed to activate only weak spots of enemies.

 

Also after taking a look at all the older assets in the game for PvP, maybe older guns, frames, and powers will get some attention too. Idk, it was just a thought. I don't mind how the game is now but after mindlessly slaughtering enemies for almost 1000 hours, maybe the game could add more balance and difficulty. Currently the game is laughably easy unless you play T4 content. I would rather have the entire game, if not a major portion of it still be fun and exciting. But maybe the void being broken up into the sharchart will also help with that... anyways enough rambling

 

Let me know what you all think? Would you like Warframe to involve a little more skill and balance into the game or is mindlessly slaughtering hundreds of enemies that just throw themselves into their death more your style?

 

[Monolake]

Would be great in theory, but on practice they have to trim out everything and balance only a small number of weapons and frames for PvP rebuild. 

Doing the same for PvE doesnt sound like a possible idea. 

[Kalenath]

Balance PVE for who is my question.

 

Balance it for the rushers?

Balance it for the door heroes?

Balance it for the casual player? The hardcore player?

 

Balance it for who?

[Doom_Bunny]

The only thing wrong with the head crits is that you could just point soma at any enemie's head and go nuts.

 

If PVE does get a rework I hope mods are looked at first. Take away all the spamming/rushing muhahahahahaharr. Though I don't see it happening any time soon as PVE is the whole (massive) game while PVP is just a small project off to the side.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Postal_pat

[motorfirebox]

Well, careful aim is already important. You get significantly more damage from weak spot hits than you do from simple RNG crits.

 

Beyond that, the first and most important step in making a game that is more than just slaughtering massive packs of mobs is making mission types that are more than just slaughtering massive packs of mobs. Anything else is a very distant second.

[rockscl]

panzar proved this to be right, at least up to now

[.Czern]

So, in short, balance akin to competitive pvp fps?

I guess lot's of people would love that and lot's of other would leave the game forever.

Personally, I always wanted that. Fully skill-based game, a nice mix of first person shooter (and imo Warframe is a really nice shooter game), melee combat, awesome powers and all of these in Warframe's fantastic setting.

 

I think it's worth testing. DE could create a few test pve missions with pvp 2.0 weapon balancing.

[Renegade343]

Reported for being useless. :D

To be fair though, there is some truth to that statement. 

 

At least, with all the PVP matches I have, quite a lot of the opponents either use cheap skills, or Reflex Guard. 

[Aggh]

Meh...take PvP out all together...will get rid of 90% of the tryhards... >.>

In what magical christmas land?  The biggest try hards in this game play PvE exclusively.  Most PvP players don't have the patience to grind events for multiple days without sleep.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Aggh

[Rakshal]

To be fair though, there is some truth to that statement. 

 

At least, with all the PVP matches I have, quite a lot of the opponents either use cheap skills, or Reflex Guard. 

In DS conflicts, not in conclave. And there are a lot more PvE tryhards.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Rakshal

[Phatose]

If balancing requires cutting 90+% of the games content, like it is in PvP, no thank you.

[Renegade343]

In DS conflicts, not in conclave. 

In which that is also PVP as well. 

 

And not in Conclaves? Well, better go check out the few players that like using Undying Will, then. 

[VoidPunch]

The only thing wrong with the head crits is that you could just point soma at any enemie's head and go nuts.

 

If PVE does get a rework I hope mods are looked at first. Take away all the spamming/rushing muhahahahahaharr. Though I don't see it happening any time soon as PVE is the whole (massive) game while PVP is just a small project off to the side.

 

Well, careful aim is already important. You get significantly more damage from weak spot hits than you do from simple RNG crits.

 

Beyond that, the first and most important step in making a game that is more than just slaughtering massive packs of mobs is making mission types that are more than just slaughtering massive packs of mobs. Anything else is a very distant second.

More of these I would say. Balancing missions and mods, not gutting the game or removing content at all. Similar to how Spy 2.0 added some sort of skill, maybe skill is not the best word for it but it changed the gameplay to be focused away from who can dish out the most DPS. I.e. The Tryhards everyone keeps mentioning.

 

In my opinion, archwing is a pretty balanced game mode (it's still lame and needs more content and insentive to play though unfortunately). And I think this is due to the stat boost numbers the mods give out compared to the rest of the game. In about 80% of the game, you can kill enemies with one shot from and automatic rifle. In archwing (at least my experience) you can't which is how I think it should be. Mod balancing and mission reworks. But I think they would have to do something about the insane enemy health/armor and damage scaling.

[zoboso]

So, in short, balance akin to competitive pvp fps?

I guess lot's of people would love that and lot's of other would leave the game forever.

Personally, I always wanted that. Fully skill-based game, a nice mix of first person shooter (and imo Warframe is a really nice shooter game), melee combat, awesome powers and all of these in Warframe's fantastic setting.

 

I think it's worth testing. DE could create a few test pve missions with pvp 2.0 weapon balancing.

 

There is already a lot of interesting choices a player could make, but none of those choices are better than pointing a Prime at it and pressing a button.

 

The only thing wrong with the head crits is that you could just point soma at any enemie's head and go nuts.

 

If PVE does get a rework I hope mods are looked at first. Take away all the spamming/rushing muhahahahahaharr. Though I don't see it happening any time soon as PVE is the whole (massive) game while PVP is just a small project off to the side.

 

I agree that the mod system is the most broken part of warframe because the battle work with the moment to moment play while entire missions are fine. The problem with changing a progression system is that players become attached to what they have worked so hard to get, therefore DE's choice is either (remove/nerf & lose players) or (leave the broken system as is). DE could even disable mods temporarily while they got around to fixing the mods (like PvP 2.0) but taking that action would frustrate those trying to get into the void for the rewards because they would be too weak to progress. et. cetera

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Meh...take PvP out all together...will get rid of 90% of the tryhards... >.>

Yeah! PVP will make E-Gate/Draco power-spam supermodders go away!

Wait...

[Lightsmith]

The way to balance PVP in this game, is to water it down make it less about builds and more about individual skill. To do the same to PVE would ruin the game. Balance for PVP, no Room Clearing skills, or area affect, no more being a mass killing machine, do that to PVE, ruins the game.

 

People say that the Mod system is broken, but its not, there is no obvious choice all around in PVE, yes there are some frames that are better in certain situations, but not one all around. Just look at the Phoenix Escalation, it showed that Radial Excal was good initially but when they released the next part, he was worthless. Excal isn't that impressive in Sabotage, Ext..... while others are.

 

There are obviously improvements that can be made to the system, but I wouldn't call it broken. PVE aside I suggest having PVP progression be completely seperate from PVE, Mods are different, even some skills. Similar to Archwing it could have a completely different experience when people play it. My Big Idea Topic in my profile has information on how I think PVP should work.

[Corvid]

Here's hoping...

[Davoodoo]

Balance PVE for who is my question.

 

Balance it for the rushers?

Balance it for the door heroes?

Balance it for the casual player? The hardcore player?

 

Balance it for who?

For everyone, balance is universal... its not a concept which favors 1 party over other.

[Shifted]

If the balance of PvP somehow inspires DE to take a look at the broken things in PvE and tweak them (NOT in the same way as PvP things), I'm all about it.

 

And there's plenty of wrong with mods (and weapon stats, for that matter).

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

For everyone, balance is universal... its not a concept which favors 1 party over other.

I don't think you understood the question.

 

You cannot balance for everyone. If you make content intended for people in low rank frames with low rank weapons and a few low rank modes, then people with 1000+ Conclave are going to smash through it without even trying. For them, the content is far too easy, so it's not balanced.

[LeshJaeThiHah]

 For them, the content is far too easy

content is too easy now. the only thing that may hold you down is damage reduction which is insane. but even this is not really a problem.

 

so your argument is rather doubtful.

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

content is too easy now. the only thing that may hold you down is damage reduction which is insane. but even this is not really a problem.

 

so your argument is rather doubtful.

Content is too easy for whom? For the Rhinos who are permanently invincible? For Loki or Ash who can spam invisibility and run to the goal? For the AoE heavy characters who can shut down and obliterate eighty enemies at once?

[BluelitHalo]

Balance PVE for who is my question.

 

Balance it for the rushers?

Balance it for the door heroes?

Balance it for the casual player? The hardcore player?

 

Balance it for who?

Balance for players that want more options without gimping their effectiveness, making one loadout choice look as appealing as another stat-wise and/or mechanics-wise.

[LeshJaeThiHah]

Content is too easy for whom? For the Rhinos who are permanently invincible? For Loki or Ash who can spam invisibility and run to the goal? For the AoE heavy characters who can shut down and obliterate eighty enemies at once?

for everyone. we have frames and weapons which can deliver huge amount of damage, amount of damage not need in 99% of the cases. difference between frames is in their kills per minute ratio. like - how fast you can farm the mobs.

 

p.s. i remember the time when i had marathon, quick rest mods on my frames. now i can't have these mods because they will gimp my efficiency. how about that?

 

p.p.s. another thing. CC frames on low level of the game are useless, they can't kill fast enough. this is where DD frames may shine. however on "high level" content DD frames are useless, and CC frames shine. no balance here as well.

Edited March 11, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[StonedMakak]

I'm afraid it's wishful thinking on your part OP. While I share the sentiment, I actually think that DE is introducing PvP partially, to avoid the balance issues in PvE. Just skim through the threads that suggest even mild nerfs/balancing and you will see the mob with pikes and torches. Those are potentially paying customers. The game was so easy for so long that a significant amount of players simply got used to it, and don't want to have actual challenge instead of the illusion of challenge that we have now.

 

Enter PvP, balanced from the very foundations with dedicated team to watch over it. It will bring new players in, and the old ones (like me) will flock to it, seeking challenge. And what is more challenging than facing a human opponent on equal terms? It, of course, sucks for those who don't like PvP and doesn't solve the balance problem at all in PvE. But it is a helluva band-aid, and DE likes those.   

Edited March 11, 2015 by tisdfogg