Ronyn Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ya eastern dragons have long snouts. They just do its one of those defining features... That compounded with it being a headress like I showed makes it look super long. I didn't say that eastern dragons don't have long snouts. <-that's a reference to one attribute. I said they do not have long, thin snouts with bulbous ends.<-that's a reference to a combination of several attributes. This isn't just about the length....if we are going by one attribute we can accurately say that several animals have a long snout. We can only really describe specific animals by using combinations of attributes. There are many pictures of Asian style dragons with their mouths open from back when these myths were fresh. Its very easy to see what just the top portion of it looks like. Chroma's head dress looks different. And ya I did link to crocodiles because I was responding to someone who said any large reptile is a dragon. Right. That lack of words for classifying many different things in the English language. Several other countries (the ones where the dragon myths come from) did actually have different words for such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) -snip- How does he see when even animated he is looking DOWN if his eyes were below the head as I will call it. Where-as when he is looking semi-down he is looking towards the screen, as seen in the animation. See the first 2-3 seconds of the gif? if that woman/girl was looking down, and the headdress was cocked a bit farther back/up 'then' you would have a accurate depiction. Now, then when you are doing that [if that is a picture of you] with the head-dress set up.... tilt it back a little. Your face will be looking down while the wolfs-head will be looking forward/ahead, im sorry but... maybe its kinda like high-class artwork where one person sees something else based on his perception and another sees something else. I'm not the only one and I've seen many others with this point of view too. Edited March 15, 2015 by achromos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 How does he see when even animated he is looking DOWN if his eyes were below the head as I will call it. Where-as when he is looking semi-down he is looking towards the screen, as seen in the animation. See the first 2-3 seconds of the gif? if that woman/girl was looking down, and the headdress was cocked a bit farther back/up 'then' you would have a accurate depiction. Now, then when you are doing that [if that is a picture of you] have the head-dress looking strait. You will be looking down, im sorry but... maybe its kinda like high-class artwork where one person sees something else based on his perception and another sees something else. I'm not the only one and I've seen many others with this point of view too. Ok then imagine if she was looking through the wolf's eye holes. Just move the headress down and inch. That would make the snout stick out even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Ok then imagine if she was looking through the wolf's eye holes. Just move the headress down and inch. That would make the snout stick out even more. This is if we continue to believe that Tenno always have to be 'human' in nature and can never have any anatomical differences. Maybe Chroma's skull is shaped differently? Like a Alligator or Crocodile? For instance: the image in the spoilers Granted... if His face looked more like a crocodiles, with the teeth and everything... It would be awesome! But... See how the skull is shaped? Edited March 15, 2015 by achromos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) No, i'm not pigeonholing anyone and most people did expect that concept. Why do you think the thread to it was linked/mentioned so many times? Do you have metrics or even a pole of what people expected? Obviously there are some, perhaps even a lot of people who expected that concept. And some who may have not expected it but preferred it over what we got. To say that "all" or even "most" expected that is unqualified. And who is to say that some other design for chroma wouldn't have pleased people even more than that concept piece? What are you usually doing in the "fair amount of time" when you aren't using your powers? Even then you can just switch to another frame if you want something to stare at. Outside of combat consists of ship, dojo and relay time. I'm suggesting that it's ok for people to care about how a frame looks in those times. can they swap frames to something more visually pleasing to them? sure. But does that mean they can't prefer to just a have a frame with visuals they like? Most of what you're saying about Chroma is very subjective. How can you decide what can, what is, and can't work for Chroma as if it is fact? "Don't pretend it isn't weird." Who is pretending? Pretty sure the people that like Chroma either like the weirdness or don't see anything weird about him at all. People need to stop saying "traditional" dragon because it is subjective. What might be traditional to them might not be traditional to someone else. Specify the type of dragon with notable traits. Let me clarify this for you. For hundreds of years in multiple cultures there were depictions of dragons. No, not the stuff we see in video games or fantasy novels.. I'm talking about the depictions from the cultures that believes in this stuff, the people who created the myths. That is the definition of the traditional dragon I am speaking of. There are specific shapes used in that art work. It is as simple as tracing lines to see when someone has stuck close to it or when someone has departed from it. Chroma is a departure. That is not subjective. It's shape recognition. By weird I mean different, unique, strange....I don;t mean bad. Weird is not a derogatory term. It is simply a way to go that strays off the beaten path. Personally some of my favorite depictions of many things are "Weird". Wild departures from the source material. That;s cool. That weirdness is sometimes an artists halmark, it is sometimes their greatest strength...and yes sometimes it gets them in trouble. To downplay that weirdness, act like its not there...is to dismiss the unique flavor that an artist brings to their work. Heck, the art team leads have been on tenno lives and blatantly said that they like to add weird, imperfect, strange, off putting..etc..things into their art. Tell someone trying to be "weird" that there is nothing weird about their work and they are often saddened. its true. So don't get it twisted. Weird doesn't mean bad inherently. Its about being a departure from the source. When someone does something unique they are inviting and deserving of whatever credit and flack they get from that. DE does some strange stuff. That's their choice. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't. Either way,provided they list the source material, I can recognize when they stick with the source material and when they depart from it. Some things are objective, some things are subjective..the trick is to know which is which. Edited March 15, 2015 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Yes thats becaus ehis entire head isn't the dragon head. He's a guy wearing a dragon headdress... which makes the proportions work to illustrate how that deforms the profile with this picture the wolf's jaw starts an inch past their forehead: Neat. pictured: dragons Please. Those are not dragons. When someone says "Dragon", just about everyone knows that the person is talking about a mythological dragon. We've been over this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Please. Those are not dragons. When someone says "Dragon", just about everyone knows that the person is talking about a mythological dragon. We've been over this before Yea, when I'm thinking of dragons, especially chromatic dragons? I think D&D, being honest? I have to suspend my own disbelief with Chroma and just realize that "Dragons" in the Tenno Universe are quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xTiccixTobyx Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) It's not a bad concept, but I just don't like the design. The long snout helmet that's supposed to be a dragon's head just isn't working for me and neither is the rest of the body, it just looks too bulky. Not that that's a bad thing considering Booben and Rhino are both bulky frames themselves, but Chroma's body design just looks like you slapped on some samurai armor and said, "Boom, protection!" They could have done more work to the frame, in my opinion Edited March 15, 2015 by xTiccixTobyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Please. Those are not dragons. When someone says "Dragon", just about everyone knows that the person is talking about a mythological dragon. We've been over this before. Did you seriously not read what I was responding to? Nothing makes sense without context. They said that any large reptiles could be considered a dragon, so I posted pictures of a large reptile. This is if we continue to believe that Tenno always have to be 'human' in nature and can never have any anatomical differences. Maybe Chroma's skull is shaped differently? Like a Alligator or Crocodile? For instance: the image in the spoilers Granted... if His face looked more like a crocodiles, with the teeth and everything... It would be awesome! But... See how the skull is shaped? Ya, it just looks like in the side view of Chroma that he has a chin sticking out of the dragon's "neck." Edited March 15, 2015 by immolator1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Did you seriously not read what I was responding to? Nothing makes sense without context. Ya, it just looks like in the side view of Chroma that he has a chin sticking out of the dragon's "neck." Though you can see how other people 'can' see it differently especially with his posture. It literally looks like he is using the 'eyes' that would be located approx. where a Crocodiles would on its skull. [Heck, maybe he's a mutant and has eyes on under his mouth. :P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidWraith Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 No matter what anyone says... All I will ever see is a sea horse. Or in the worse case, a face with an anteater pelt lying on top of it.... It barely even resembles eastern dragons (the water dragons). When it came out on the teaser and everyone was cheering, I have a feeling they were cheering because they don't really know how to respond and it was probably a pity cheer for DE since they were standing right there..... no one wanted to hear crickets.... Or they REALLY enjoyed the design, in which case I can only silently shake my head in disbelief, but what ever. My opinion is just one of a many floating around the forums. The way the skill works in correlation to the energy's color is interesting but the general look of the Chroma warframe really had me face palm. Even knowing where the actual face is.... it just looks like it was swallowed up and became a weird neck/cheek and was part of that nozzle face..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocorro Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Crocodile headdress : Dragon headdress : I'll say they look exactly as their name. In Chroma case, more like gharial or sea-horse : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch111 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I just realised that I should make you all aware that prior to Limbos release, there WAS a big discussion about what a "void sorcerer" meant to people. Let me put it this way, no suggestion or post had the remotest likeness to a tophat magician. In fact I think it was the opposite, more mysterious energy mage. What did Scott do? Announce the name in a livestream as LIMBO like it was a whim-on-the-spot-descision and AFTER previoisly saying one of his powers kind of made him go into Limbo. My point? There is no telling at all if they will listen to anything we have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I just realised that I should make you all aware that prior to Limbos release, there WAS a big discussion about what a "void sorcerer" meant to people. Let me put it this way, no suggestion or post had the remotest likeness to a tophat magician. In fact I think it was the opposite, more mysterious energy mage. What did Scott do? Announce the name in a livestream as LIMBO like it was a whim-on-the-spot-descision and AFTER previoisly saying one of his powers kind of made him go into Limbo. My point? There is no telling at all if they will listen to anything we have to say. Good points overall but a slight correction. It was Steve who announced the frames name would be Limbo. It wasn't even clear if Scott was aware that Steve had decided on it prior to that moment. lol Your point is still solid though....just being specific. Edited March 15, 2015 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocorro Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I just realised that I should make you all aware that prior to Limbos release, there WAS a big discussion about what a "void sorcerer" meant to people. Let me put it this way, no suggestion or post had the remotest likeness to a tophat magician. In fact I think it was the opposite, more mysterious energy mage. What did Scott do? Announce the name in a livestream as LIMBO like it was a whim-on-the-spot-descision and AFTER previoisly saying one of his powers kind of made him go into Limbo. My point? There is no telling at all if they will listen to anything we have to say. I think that after they release him, and if that twist with using his powers won't be enough to calm a lot of players that dislike his look, then they will listen. Just take a look how big that megathread was (views and responces). Huge. So if using his powers won't calm ppl they might actually consider some tweaks to his looks. Alt helmets are a must in his case. And his "dragon pelt" ... ugh... more like infested twisted muscles. Edited March 15, 2015 by tocorro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch111 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I think that after they release him, and if that twist with using his powers won't be enough to calm a lot of players that dislike his look, then they will listen. Just take a look how big that megathread was (views and responces). Huge. So if using his powers won't calm ppl they might actually consider some tweaks to his looks. Alt helmets are a must in his case. And his "dragon pelt" ... ugh... more like infested twisted muscles. Mm. Limbo is still controversial, the powers got looked at really quick though. I have a hard time seeing they remove a warframe allready made, but normalmaps and textures as well as helmets are much easier. I guess it all depend on how fun/powerful he is to use. And if the disslikes of apearance is not diminished by colors or cosmetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocorro Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 There is mention from time to time of other WF and concerns that their designs made. By far this WF made the biggest impact in the forums if I'm not mistaken. At least I don't remember bigger hussle. btw. considering other WF looks, I still think that Liger-Inuzuka concept of Zephyr was more "WOW!!" [still DE's one resemble Bird frame without a doubt] : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) btw. considering other WF looks, I still think that Liger-Inuzuka concept of Zephyr was more "WOW!!" [still DE's one resemble Bird frame without a doubt] : I like the Zephyr frame in game but I like the fan concept quite a bit more. There is mention from time to time of other WF and concerns that their designs made. By far this WF made the biggest impact in the forums if I'm not mistaken. At least I don't remember bigger hussle. There has never been close to this big of a fuss over an aesthetic issue. Edited March 15, 2015 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takatashi Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Pre-Chroma: "Give us more frames based off of eastern cultures! Ninjas and samurais!"-Forums Post-Chroma: "WTF THIS ISN'T A WESTERN DRAGON!!"-Forums More like: WTF THIS ISN'T A DRAGON! And it's not an eastern dragon. You can post this bs 100 more times that still won't make it an eastern dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcraft12 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This debate ended a friendship of mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takatashi Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 We're still on this? Play the frame first before complaining. Too Ugly To Play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikail96 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) More like: WTF THIS ISN'T A DRAGON! And it's not an eastern dragon. You can post this bs 100 more times that still won't make it an eastern dragon. And you can post your BS even more times and i still will tell you that you are firetruckin blind. To all chroma haters go into the rift and never comeback please. Edited March 15, 2015 by Mikail96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takatashi Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 And you can post your BS even more times and i still will tell you that you are firetruckin blind. To all chroma haters go into the rift and never comeback please. You've never seen an eastern dragon, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocorro Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 And you can post your BS even more times and i still will tell you that you are firetruckin blind. To all chroma haters go into the rift and never comeback please. Well this post from page 3 is adequate : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) You've never seen an eastern dragon, have you? They have long snouts. DE even said he was based off of Eastern dragons and luck. Edited March 15, 2015 by immolator1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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