Wukong Primal Fury Is Broken. Power Range Not Working

[Ziegrif]

Dont have my build up but i run with 185% str high dur idk what no rng since its broken right now and i think 30% eff and have no problem dishing out tons of dmg with him.

 

Hmm... I think I'm using it about that amount but I'm having a cost of 2 or so on PF.

I'm not in a position to check either but I think I do use range for now.

 

Need to check later and optimize accordingly if range truly is buggered.

[rawr1254]

Hmm... I think I'm using it about that amount but I'm having a cost of 2 or so on PF.

I'm not in a position to check either but I think I do use range for now.

 

Need to check later and optimize accordingly if range truly is buggered.

Well even if range is broken I still use a P Reach on my melee just for looks on the PF. So I have a no range build right now but Ive been thinking of formaing+exilusing and putting on a drift mod for just a teeny tiny bit more range for when the range is fixed. Max narrow minded and I think a P Cont idk if Im using constitution or not. But the durations like 180 something I think.

Edited December 15, 2015 by rawr1254

[KingTaro]

I get better range with Orthos Prime using maxed Primed reach,

then with Primal Fury using maxed Primed Reach + Overextended (+90% power range) and having hit 100 combo counter.

 

Was really looking forward to Primal Fury beating the range of Orthos Prime. Ah well.

 

 

Anyway, this is how the staff looks like with just the maxed Primed Reach + Overextended by default (so without building up any melee counter).

[JoeSaber76]

I'll work on it. *to the simulacrum*

 

Edit: Findings: Range does not apply to Primal Fury at the moment.

Edited December 15, 2015 by JoeSaber76

[[DE]Rebecca]

I'll work on it. *to the simulacrum*

 

Edit: Findings: Range does not apply to Primal Fury at the moment.

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

[PsycloneM]

Are you sure your staff is not just visibly getting bigger? Because my staff extends regardless of whether I have range mods on or not. I also was getting the same results with or without range mods. What do range mods do I don't know. Is it capped to a smaller limit? I don't know. Is the staff supposed to stay at the extended length I don't know. 

 

It's not purely aesthetic from what I'm observing. The hitbox is increasing in length along with the visuals. I cannot hit an ancient 4-5 meters away (let alone 3 meters) with no hits on the combo counter and no Reach or Primed Reach equipped despite what was claimed earlier in this thread, and I can hit the ancient at that distance when the melee range bonus from the combo counter is maximized with no Reach or Primed Reach equipped.

 

I've also seen claims that when channeling, the particle effects are not trailing from either end of the staff, indicating the hitbox is not extending when the combo counter is built up. I do not agree with this claim either. Here's the staff at +0% range and +200% range.

 

The staff grows regardless of whether your power range is modified. Growth is tied to the melee combo counter, so if you don't have any hits on the counter the staff will be at its default size. If the combo counter resets, the staff will shrink to its default size. Reach and Primed Reach affect the default size. The staff grows in increments that depend on rank. All power range does is affect the size of those increments (e.g., with greater power range it will take fewer hits to reach the maximum melee range bonus). The melee range bonus from the combo counter adds to the range bonus provided by Reach and Primed Reach.

 

 

Wow, thank you for your testing. All the data and results were very enlightening to hear. I suppose I should've went more into testing instead of just assuming that it was broken (I saw a lot of posts about "broken" range as Wukong and I also felt that the staff was only visually getting larger and the hitbox hardly increased).

 

No problem and thanks. We're not completely out of the woods though. As it's impossible for me to test Primed Reach at this time, I encourage more people to reevaluate the attack range using that mod while maximizing the melee range bonus from the combo counter. At +365% range, you should be able to hit an ancient farther than I've demonstrated above.

 

I would also encourage everyone who has claimed power range doesn't work or that the hitbox doesn't extend regardless of the combo counter to replicate my experiments. If you can smack an ancient across the face 5 meters away with no hits on the combo counter and no melee range mods equipped, then something's not right.

 

I would figure most people who have tested here are using the Simulacrum, but for those who are not, it's possible this could be a host vs. client-related issue.

 

 

This is what I have been experiencing on PS4.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I would really like to know if more people are able to observe what I'm seeing. Necior was the first to report a maximum +200% melee range bonus from the combo counter.

[Issun135]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

but he should be able to get that far but maybe have a slight damage reduction past say 20-25m or something to stay some what true to the legend where that staff can extend extreme lengths. From the heavens to the earth, how ever far that may be, its certainly further than what the range is currently.

[Synitare]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

 

That's a bit disappointing to hear, since that's more or less what it should be given what the frame and weapon is based on. Without the ever-increasing range, what about Wukong makes him different enough to take over any other durable frame? Being locked into melee range is a pretty sharp limitation, and the skill itself doesn't offer enough on its own outside of the range increase to really be worth using over something like an Orthos or Galantine with Primed Reach.

[Rhaenxys]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

 

While i understand this thread is all about wukong and how range mods are working at this moment, primal fury seems to have issues when used with attack speed modifiers such berserker, fury, warcry etc, wukong keeps doing the first attack at some situations, you can see this issue in this video in this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/565574-wukongs-primal-fury-combo-glitch/

 

Second but minor issue, if you stun an enemy when you use cloudwalker (initial hit) and when the enemy is still in the stun animation you leave cloudwalker finisher attacks are most likely to not work on them, you can only perform finishers if you stun only one time the same target.

[KingTaro]

 

At +365% range, you should be able to hit an ancient farther than I've demonstrated above.

Tested it and it does hit farther:

 

 

 

But not as far as Orthos Prime, from what I noticed. (look at the Ancient at the right)

 

 

Primal Fury being an ultimate and all, I was expecting some drastic range differences.

 

 

EDIT:

To clarify, I'm using maxed Primed Reach in both gifs.

Edited December 15, 2015 by KingTaro

[7Lions]

Tested it and it does hit farther:

 

 

 

But not as far as Orthos Prime, from what I noticed. (look at the Ancient at the right)

 

 

Primal Fury being an ultimate and all, I was expecting some drastic range differences.

 

 

EDIT:

To clarify, I'm using maxed Primed Reach in both gifs.

 

OP is OP

[rawr1254]

Tested it and it does hit farther:

 

 

 

But not as far as Orthos Prime, from what I noticed. (look at the Ancient at the right)

 

 

Primal Fury being an ultimate and all, I was expecting some drastic range differences.

 

 

EDIT:

To clarify, I'm using maxed Primed Reach in both gifs.

Wait so are you saying range mods on your WF affect it before the melee multiplier? I thought the multiplier was supposed to increase the range by the % in the skill. So each hit would increase its range x%

[tripletriple]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

Considering some melee weapons can hit further than Wukong ultimate I hope you guys find a suitable middle ground for all this. 

[ndantony]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

Sure. Let us know what's the design intent for his PF, regardless those gifs.

 

And regarding PF, make it fair and comparable to others' forth powers, concept-wise like Excal, Atlas, Volt, Saryn's etc. Otherwise, what's the point for his PF if Orthos Prime, or long range melee, for any frames that can do the same and better.

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

So why did it take so long for you guys to debunk that gif. From a customer stand point had I paid for him in plat I had been mislead. Since you niether denied or confirmed it for 3 WEEKS after his release you literally let it false advertise for you. That's pretty low.

[(PSN)adam4213]

Wow that's disappointing. So an Orthos Prime with a maxed Primed Reach hits further than Primal Fury with a maxed Prime Reach. The Primal Fury in those China gifs doesn't seem that overpowered to me when compared to Hysteria or Exalted Blade which has more range and can go through walls. Though without actually experiencing it for myself it's impossible to say for sure. 

 

Hopefully DE can buff/fix Primal Fury soon because right now it's not worth using. Cloud Walker could use a buff as well.

Edited December 16, 2015 by (PS4)adam4213

[FelisImpurrator]

Correct - will work on getting a sense of if it should and how much soon. I did some runs with RawGritz earlier experimenting with Melee Range mods, as those are inherited by Primal Fury. The one thing that absolutely needs conclusive answers to is the disparity of that .gif vs. Wukong in practice. Achieving what's in those .gifs is beyond design intent.

Hmm. In this specific scenario, I'd still like it if something approaching the effect in those gifs - not QUITE so extreme, but similar - could be theoretically achievable with Primal Fury; at a large damage penalty beyond a certain range, if necessary. It is, after all, mythologically accurate, and outside of massive reach Primal Fury has nothing to potentially make it competitive with, say, Exalted Blade or Hysteria.

 

That said, I did notice a possible inconsistency in the first gif, now that I look at it closely. The player's combo counter appears to start from zero - so this appears to NOT be produced by the melee counter scaling, whatever is causing it.

[RawGritz]

So why did it take so long for you guys to debunk that gif. From a customer stand point had I paid for him in plat I had been mislead. Since you niether denied or confirmed it for 3 WEEKS after his release you literally let it false advertise for you. That's pretty low.

That gif was not an advertisement of what the global build would receive.

 

No DE-shown gameplay entailed such range on Primal Fury. Someone was assuming a lot.

[Mozileon]

I'll work on it. *to the simulacrum*

 

Edit: Findings: Range does not apply to Primal Fury at the moment.

 

I'm a little confused. I started doing my own small-scale testing after PsycloneM posted his test results. 

 

I found that more range mods (190% range with a reach mod on melee) increased the range granted to the staff per +1 on the melee counter. It took 6 hits to cap it out at the supposed 200% growth cap (6 hits).

With less range mods (91% range with a reach mod on melee), it took longer to get the staff to cap out at the supposed 200% growth limit (12 hits).

 

Were range mods supposed to do something else for Primal Fury as well?

[PsycloneM]

Tested it and it does hit farther.

 

Nice, thanks for confirming that.

 

 

With the testing that I've done so far and the confirmation I've received from some of you, I cannot say that I'm observing power range or melee range mods working improperly with Primal Fury (at least based on my understanding of Primal Fury's mechanics). I can say this with confidence in regard to solo-testing in the Simulacrum. On client there may be issues, although I would not be able to confirm that at this time.

 

 

To reiterate what I've observed:

 

• Power range mods affect the amount of range Primal Fury gains with each hit on the melee combo counter. Power range does not affect the staff's default size or the maximum melee range bonus from the counter.

   

• Melee range mods affect Primal Fury's default size. If power range mods affect the staff's rate of growth on successive hits, melee range mods affect the starting point of that growth.

   

• The growth of the staff is tied directly to the melee combo counter, and a maximum of +200% bonus melee range can be gained from it. This bonus adds onto the range bonuses provided by melee range mods.

 

As an example, if I have a maxed Primed Reach equipped, Primal Fury will have an initial melee range bonus of +165%. If Primal Fury is at rank 3, each hit will add +20% range until a maximum melee range bonus of 165% + 200% = +365% is reached. If the combo counter resets, the melee range bonus will be reduced to its initial value at +165%. If I have no power range mods equipped, it will take a minimum of 10 hits to gain the maximum melee range bonus again. If I equip a maxed Stretch, a minimum of 7 hits would be required.

 

 

As for feedback on Primal Fury now that we know the mechanics in those gifs are beyond design intentions, having a limit on the melee range bonus isn't a problem in my opinion as the maximum amount of bonus melee range is fairly large (especially in combination with melee range mods like Primed Reach). However, the default length of Primal Fury's hitbox is nothing spectacular. Even with +365% melee range, Primal Fury does not hit as far as certain weapons that utilize only +165% melee range from Primed Reach.

 

If Primal Fury is to be tweaked, increasing the default length of the staff's hitbox (and physical model to ensure the staff is not hitting air when its hitbox collides with enemies) by a reasonable amount could be a priority.

Edited December 20, 2015 by PsycloneM

[tripletriple]

 

Power range mods affect the amount of range Primal Fury gains with each hit on the melee combo counter. Power range does not affect the staff's default size or the maximum melee range bonus from the counter.

Ahh, thank you. So technically range mods are not affecting primal fury, but the melee bonus. That is why many had a disparity with results. The default length was bad and not being changed with range mods. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by tripletriple

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Wrong. Your whole point falls apart just that... You have "ignored" Valkyr's close range compensated by her invincibility and even immune to knock-down.

And defy to warcry?? Lmao. Not one of your comparison is "apple to apple," from ignoring one thing to overgloss the other.

Also, did you actually play Valkyr?

You mean that invincibility on top of the strongest basestats on any frame, that hinder the most effective rage use? Yea sure.

Sry man but the invincibility on valk is more curse then it is a blessing.

[ndantony]

You mean that invincibility on top of the strongest basestats on any frame, that hinder the most effective rage use? Yea sure.

Sry man but the invincibility on valk is more curse then it is a blessing.

Uh, ok.

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

That gif was not an advertisement of what the global build would receive.

No DE-shown gameplay entailed such range on Primal Fury. Someone was assuming a lot.

Like I stated before the gif was shown the day he was announced to be released. Upon release people modded him up and noticed significant less range than the gif showed. All we recieved was acknowledgement that Wukong was not working properly, but never a denial of he would not work as the gif posted with the complaint. So yes very misleading.

[S0V3REiGN]

Nvm

Edited December 16, 2015 by S0V3REiGN