Banshee: Why Is She Unpopular? I May Know Why

[Kevlareater]

As with my Nezha headline, I can't fit the one I really wanted in the "topic title" bar. What I really wanted:

 

Banshee: That homely, plain-Jane, lower-middle class nerdy girl everyone ignored in high school and most of college, who also had a dull personality with unpopular musical tastes, is annoyingly opinionated and who frequently agreed to take on topics nobody cares about and answer questions nobody asked. Also has a killer sound system, which the more popular tenno often rented out from Banshee, but for some reason, was never invited to any of the parties her sound system was being used at. If not for the aforementioned system and the occasional lay she gets from the other tenno when Valkyr, Saryn, Ember (Prime), Mirage, Nyx and maybe Nova are too busy with others or are vomiting up tequila and rum and Banshee's seen as either a last resort, or as practice to prepare for the aforementioned women (she's a screamer, btw), Banshee is otherwise ignored as normal.

 

Banshee is supposed to be the representation of sound, I think. From sending reverberations to stun foes, to creating weak points she and others can exploit for maximum damage, and even two ways to debilitate foes as she closes in on them to deliver a melee-related death, Banshee is quite the package. But why is she unpopular? I may know why:

 

- Her stats.

Banshee's debilitating skills may compensate for her paper-thin armor (really, a bedsheet would at this point, double her armor), but when looking at her stats the rest of her is just as unimpressive at first glance. 300 health/shields at rank, 15 armor, 225 power at rank 30 make her among the squishiest warframes available. It took me a long time to consider putting her in the oven despite getting dozens of BP's from the login rewards and having all her parts constructed throughout much of 2015, all due to these stats. This is me judging a book by its cover, but this may also be other like-minded people who want a sturdy frame for their time and/or money. Stats-wise, Banshee's only redeeming quality is her above-average sprint speed of 1.1, which is good for quickly closing in on foes.

 

Possible solution: Adding in 100-200 more shields/health or armor to compensate for the other low stat(s). More survivability when low or out of energy is always a good thing.

 

- Cost and ascertation.

Choosing to either make a clan, join one or outright buy Banshee, are our choices. The clanless tenno don't have much, if any, choice in the matter if they want to add her to their closet of frames to choose from. 225 plat is also a bit much to ask for, considering she's been available since Update 7, and that was years ago and in tech years, ancient history. In the time of this post, 225 plat can go quite a ways with getting what you need/want, or buying a weapon that may (not) be worth it.

 

Possible solution: Reduce her price or involve her in more Darvo sales. In either case, reducing her price would more than likely consider picking her up for a date or two. More people playing Banshee is always a good thing, even if the player themselves may not be the most elite of tenno (like it matters. Let them learn her ins and outs)

 

- High skill ceiling.

Quite a few people have mentioned Banshee and "high skill ceiling" in the same sentence. She may need more advanced mods to function properly, and that she needs all of her maximization stats to be positive in order for her to not be gimped (like a lot of other frames), but she hardly takes much skill to learn or use. She has one of the most straightforward skill sets, great for almost anyone's playstyle:

 

1 - Blow in the enemy's direction to knock it down. Stab when close.

2 - Create weak points for max damage. Don't forget to add the mod Resonance so Sonar can act as a slightly more effective Spores.

3. Press and run around like an idiot, avenging those revenants or royally tempo---ing (I guess) something, I dunno.

4 - shoom.... shoom... wub wub wub wub Downward dog pose while praying that RNGesus lubes up as the ground shakes and knocks back all foes in range.

 

A "high skill ceiling" is not a very valid excuse to talk against a freshening up of her skills.

 

- Outdated skills.

Advances in technology have allowed DE to do a lot of things and fit more into their engine, whether or not we agree with those things. Banshee's skills were great when DE opened Warframe's doors to the public all the way to around Damage 2.0 (I signed up shortly after this), but at this point her skills need an update to their functionality and synergy:

 

Sonic Boom - shockwave flies a greater distance (think Guile's (Street Fighter) Sonic Boom, only much wider), ragdolling all foes in the swath, and giving allies within it, as well as Banshee, a movement boost. The width/distance of the shockwave varying on range, how strong ragdolling is depends on strength,

 

Sonar - A 1-2 second stun on all affected foes on initial cast. The stun is more a confirmation that the victim has been marked than as CC, as it's hard to discern in the middle of a crowded fight, especially if one chooses to forgo range to favor the other stats. Also, maybe lower the skill cost to 25.

 

Silence - Possibly getting rid of the deafening of sounds. Replacing deafness with Banshee temporarily glowing her energy color, then dimming, to better symbolize the skill's activation. Silence could also "prime" those in the area of effect that would do nothing unless triggered by Sound Quake. Otherwise, Silence is good as is.

 

Sound Quake - Continuing on from Silence, those caught in Silence's area of effect while Sound Quake is active could cause those foes to receive double damage from Sound Quake. This may add a synergy to the two skills to give a Banshee player more reason to use this skill.

 

This may not be the best reasons why Banshee needs a looking at alongside other frames, and frames whose skills need revising *coughPeacemakercough*, but I do think that with some of these changes, more people would buy and/or play with her more.

 

side note: It's annoying and funny how when a warframe is mentioned negatively (Limbo, Banshee, for example and according to DE's numbers), all of a sudden grandmasters of the use of these frames pop out of nowhere in defense of said frame while calling those that speak negatively of said frames bad players. What. The stinking hell? Perhaps there's a reason why certain frames are more popular than others, and perhaps "skill" has little or nothing to do with it. Casting disingenuous assertions is unfortunately all to common in these parts, and my mentioning it won't change a squattin' mind. Meh.

[Circle_of_Psi]

*Sighs*..

 

Time..to go and make out with Banshee

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Banshee demands intelligence to play , thats the reason is unpopular , same case of limbo and nyx

[Rioma]

banshee doesn't break any rules of the game. For instance loki goes invisible and takes away weapons, valk is invincible, nyx makes enemies fight each other ect. . . When you play banshee you play warframe at its most basic state. Although bashee is very strong, breaking the rules is more fun (usually and depending on the person).

[ashrah]

bashee just need big buff

[kubbi]

I have a hard time standing the sight of those bananashoes lol. I have no issues with her abilities and stats however. I'm hoping the upcoming Banshee skin will motivate people to play with her more.

[rhoenix]

A Banshee with high power strength, high power range, a reasonable amount of power duration, and the Resonance augment is a tremendous help on many missions.  Sonar with Resonance can make even high level enemies much easier to kill off en masse.

 

That said, I do think her other abilities could use some looking at.  Sonic Boom is very useful, but I hardly ever use Silence or Soundquake.

Edited December 24, 2015 by rhoenix

[AdunSaveMe]

Banshee demands intelligence to play , thats the reason is unpopular , same case of limbo and nyx

But that's not the case at all. She simply isn't enjoyable to play and doesn't offer as much to a team as many other frames.

 

Also, Nyx? Intelligence? Wat

Edited December 24, 2015 by AdunSaveMe

[ranks21]

banshee stun doesn't really gives you enough time to do finishers if theres multiple enemies, heck youre lucky to pull off one<< heres looking at you silence.. she needs works as the whole duration/efficiency doesn't work well for her but her 1 is the only viable thing that is reliable.

[Ziegrif]

Banshee: That homely, plain-Jane, lower-middle class nerdy girl everyone ignored in high school and most of college, who also had a dull personality with unpopular musical tastes, is annoyingly opinionated and who frequently agreed to take on topics nobody cares about and answer questions nobody asked. Also has a killer sound system, which the more popular tenno often rented out from Banshee, but for some reason, was never invited to any of the parties her sound system was being used at. If not for the aforementioned system and the occasional lay she gets from the other tenno when Valkyr, Saryn, Ember (Prime), Mirage, Nyx and maybe Nova are too busy with others or are vomiting up tequila and rum and Banshee's seen as either a last resort, or as practice to prepare for the aforementioned women (she's a screamer, btw), Banshee is otherwise ignored as normal.

 

Bravo. That description is amazing.

You may not see it but I am giving you a standing ovation.

It's not very impressive.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Ziegrif

[ashrah]

sonar would be more effective if glow is only marked on heads cz on high levels u dont have really much time to aim specific spot...wen they 1 shot u

[tripletriple]

It's simple why no one wants to play her. Her ultimate and silence are complete garbage.

Refute or argue it all you want but change or buff those two and watch banshee go from least played to one of the most played.

EDIT: Sonic boom is a bad skill too thinking about it. 1 good skill on Banshee, yay.

Edited December 24, 2015 by tripletriple

[[DE]Momaw]

banshee doesn't break any rules of the game

 

Exactly.  And because of this, she has no real place in a team.  She can do CC, but becomes completely useless while doing CC, unlike Ember who has the same effect in "Firequake" but at much lower energy cost and retains full mobility and combat viability, or Mirage, who can basically lock down half the map.   She can do damage amplification to ridiculous levels, but there's no point because it's very precise damage amplification. Warframe is a horde mode game, so it requires horde mode solutions, like stacking damage amp effects from Roar, Molecular Prime, or the family of "make team mate do more damage" augments...

 

She doesn't heal, she doesn't buff, her support damage amp is much slower and more fiddlely than alternatives, and her CC is no better than other frames while having enormous costs and weaknesses.

[BattledOne]

Banshee demands intelligence to play , thats the reason is unpopular , same case of limbo and nyx

Every frame benefits from an intelligent player. Banshee just requires one to function on par with a monkey playing anything else.

[taiiat]

- i don't see direct survivability stats as a problem at all.

what you're suggesting is that Players that only like Warframes that are press button never die don't like Banshee. well, yes, they won't. but they never will either.

 

- 'too hard to get' is not really an argument. other Warframes are easy or difficult to get and that doesn't stop people using them. no offense but we don't care if Excalinewb can't get a Warframe and therefore doesn't use it. he will someday.

 

- i won't disagree that Abilities that lock you into a single position don't make sense in the scope of Warframe and that Silence while quite useful could be slightly adjusted to make it a sliver more reliable.

 

 

- you'd get more practical mileage on giving Sonar a recast Counter, but limiting it to 2x rather than 4x.

doesn't need to give anything other than lower Energy Cost.

 

a Damage Bonus on Sound Quake for Enemies affected by Silence is some Synergy i guess - but tbh you get a lot more mileage out of using Sonar Points to boost Sound Quake's Damage.

 

-snip-

it sounds like you've described 'fairly well balanced, has enough roles in Combat to do several things but not doing it all at once'.

:)

[Magnulast]

Banshee requires knowledge of the situation to survive(even though silence...), basically stating that her powers allow her to survive, her powers also help, but it's a tradeoff,

Offensive+support=low defense.

 

Silence is garbage to some players, but I like it over sonar.

 

Banshee is the only frame to sneak and support, and those two things do not match up very well if no one listens, or cares what you are doing.

Support-trinity

Sneak-Loki

 

Most people don't sneak soo..

 

Basically, like most frames her build is either sonar+silence or sonic boom+sound quake.

That's pretty much to what I see usually on high level.

Like EV and BLESS trin.

And invis loki and RD loki.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Magnulast

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

When her Deluxe skin/rework comes. She will get the attention she deserves.

[m1a3s3k7]

I like the Saryn rework approach you took for the ability changes. I personally am ok with Banshee the way she is other than Sound Quake being a lackluster way to present your body for sacrifice and the tinfoil armor. Your changes would provide the synergy between abilities DE seems to be moving toward with new frames and other reworks, but you forgot one thing: the passive. With a frame based on sound it could be silent footsteps or weapons all the time, a "sonic boom" (heavy impact) but when you bullet jump, or improved low ends on the in-game music due to those sweet headphones (from concept art of premium skin).

[AuroraSonicBoom]

- Her stats.

Her stats are the way they are for a reason. Every frame should in theory at least have a main drawback which balances out its advantages, so that no character class becomes objectively superior to any other in any hypothetical case you construct. It also creates the space for players to apply their skill to negate these drawbacks, provided the game gives the player the ability to do so. Banshee has enough control skills to keep herself from being mercilessly slaughtered in most cases, and she's fast enough to avoid attacks from melee enemies when she's able to move. Instead of trying to pad out her drawbacks, you should think about giving the player more tools to use to avoid the damage, or broaden the effectiveness of existing ones to create situations in which she can excel at her role as buffer.

I've been playing Banshee for as long as I can remember, and generally the only times I feel like I'm going down undeserved is when I have to choose whether or not to use Sonic Boom or Silence to stun the mob. So naturally, what I would like to see the most is to be able to move while casting my 1,2 and 3. The game has become a lot more mobile and fluid when it comes to players moving, and in this situation a frail frame like Banshee that still requires rooting to cast makes things awkward and a lot more dangerous than it should be. Not saying that SQ shouldn't lock you in place, it's her signature skill, it's unique and can be made a lot more useful by giving it and the other skills secondary effects that synergize with each other. I get that people feel helpless and bored when using Sound Quake, but there's no reason not to look into making it more interactive and safer given the correct set up instead of going "crap skill, replace plz".

When it comes to buffing her skill without replacing or completely redesigning her set, I was for the longest time messing around with a set of ideas I liked but couldn't group under a easy to understand concept until recently. She's a sound based frame, so I'd like her skills to synergize around targeting body parts through resonance(the physical concept, not the augment) and manipulating the enemy's sense of balance. Basing the synergy of her skills around her second and third seems to be the most interesting ones. This is my latest revision on what I'd like to see for her:

Sonic Boom:

- Cast while moving, animation change to what's seen in The Profit trailer

- Ability to target a specific body part, that body part is targeted on all affected enemies

- Ability to destroy incoming projectiles, rockets, saw blades, nano swarms, etc., including crates and loot containers

- Enemies hit by SB that are affected by Silence take twice as long to get back up, time period scaling with Power Duration

Sonar:

- Cast while moving

Silence:

- Cast while moving

- Native ability to finish stunned enemies in melee, minus augment damage boost

- +25% to base chance of making enemies hit by impact or blast damage get procced, chance scaling with Power Strength

Sound Quake:

- 2X damage bonus from knock downed enemies

- Ability to send out a second, additional focused cone of quakes(primary fire key, additional energy drain) able to target specific body parts on affected enemies

- Ability to destroy crates and loot containers

Edited December 29, 2015 by AuroraSonicBoom

[Noble_Cactus]

Banshee demands intelligence to play , thats the reason is unpopular , same case of limbo and nyx

Hardly. The only reason why people say this is because she goes down in a hit or two against Lv60 enemies.

In fact, her abilities are very easy to use. Three of them are some of the most passive abilities in the game. Silence stuns enemies when you get near them, Sound Quake staggers enemies when they get near you. Sonar is a bit more interesting because it rewards good aiming, but all you have to do to activate the weakpoints is push a button.

And that's likely one major reason Banshee is unpopular. Her skills don't make you feel involved. You turn them on and let them run their course. Sound Quake is a particularly bad offender. I doubt many people actually enjoy squatting on the ground doing absolutely nothing while your friends get to run around and shoot everything. If you do, more power to you. I'd also like to pick your brain apart for why you enjoy pressing a button and doing nothing for 30 minutes.

Banshee also has a very old reputation for being bad. Sonar used to only shine in content past Lv100. Back in the day (two years ago), this was way beyond the level of content undertaken by your average player. Silence didn't always have its stun, either, which is a useful addition that doesn't get as much credit as it should. Especially when you can stun enemies over and over by moving them in and out of the Silence radius.

The bottom line is that Banshee is not bad. She is simply boring for most players, and her abilities don't provide immediate results. All of her abilities require you to follow up with guns and melee and aren't flashy in themselves. Sure, Loki's disarm requires you to finish off enemies with weapons too. But Loki's disarm is very empowering. Combined with Invisibility, you can make enemies completely helpless, as RiomaX above me pointed out. With Banshee, enemies can still shoot at you mere seconds later.

Personally, I think Loki is ridiculous. But that's a topic for another thread.

At the very least, DE should change Sound Quake to something more interactive and make her kit more cohesive. Fingers crossed for 2016 when they release her awesome-looking deluxe skin.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[hukurokuju5]

for missions where you aren't huddled together under a frost bubble, silence is the key ability for banshee's survivability

 

1) Banshee is unpopular because you actually have to pay attention to silence to survive.  

Alot of  people don't know that silence can stun multiple times.  

 

2) Most people run over 100% range because banshee's initial appeal is the damage boost from sonar,

even with just maxed stretch on, I find it difficult to utilize silence for multiple stuns on enemies.  with anything over 145% then, it is almost impossible to get constant stuns with silence.  100% is the sweet spot i've found.  ( resonance augment is mandatory if you run only 100% range, however....)

 

3) Banshee's effectiveness is based more on player skill , and can be unforgiving to play for new players.  

I don't think i even started messing with banshee til i was MR 12ish.  

 

4) MELEE is unpopular.  

people dont realize how much melee blocking, rage , lifestrike can boost a fragile frames durability

Edited December 25, 2015 by hukurokuju5

[ThePredicament]

Because she has a high effective floor and high but limited effective ceiling, plus specialty builds such as Reso Bansh, Armor Stripper Bansh, and Savage Bansh are very mod specific in builds, some leaving her without any kind of defense mod.

 

Her support just isn't necessary to carry out 90% of missions and the 10%, she either has a hard effective ceiling (based on weapons used with Sonar) or other frames can do better (armor stripping and Savage sphere/CC).

[tnccs215]

mh...

Your headline is extremely prejudicial, shallow, and overall stupid.

Quite ironically, it fits how most people fail to see Banshee: This people, too shallow to bother to actually spend time with her, discard her as dull, completely missing the incredible skills she possesses.

that is, she's hard to use, but when you know how to use her, every other frame is a piece of cake.

Also, seriously, that headline shows more about the person you are than the person "she is".

Edited December 25, 2015 by tnccs215

[Swailwort]

It's simple. Banshee needs planning, smart execution and careful gameplay, and the skill to aim at something instead of Boltor Spraying to death.

Banshee, like Nyx, Ivara, Zephyr, and Limbo are not straightforward frames as Excal, Nova, Loki or Trin, so they are forgotten by the vast majority of the playerbase.

Banshee needs all that, Nyx needs to be able to adapt to every situation, Zephyr needs to always stay in the offensive by any means, Limbo needs to stay alert of everything going on, and Ivara needs to know what to do when it has to do something...

Meanwhile, Excal is 4toWin like Nova, Loki is go invisible and spam 4, and Trin is EV spam and some blessing put it...

[LisRestall]

4) MELEE is unpopular.  

people dont realize how much melee blocking, rage , lifestrike can boost a fragile frames durability

I know blocking can help but trust me, as someone who have tried sooo many times to do a 1 hour T4S using a savage Banshee, blocking barely helps anymore at around 35mins. I have lasted only till 50 minutes so far but that's with deaths here and there. Note: This was pre-focus system

 

It's gonna be faceroll with Naramon now though.