Remove Bursas.

[KnightCole]

Add a more accessible frontal weakpoint.....

 

Bursas dont seem to be really "difficult", only the annoying kind of difficult.  They randomly show up in a group and stun lock you, or blind you momentarily, before shutting down and allowing us to unload into their asses........

 

Idk, I would rather face Hyenas, they actually have difficulty in that they move around, they are fast and zippy, pretty strong.  Bursas are just kind of annoying.  I kinda like the Prosecutors on Ceres as well.  Tough, and have a certain strat to kill them, but dont stun lock, blind you and do all matter of random annoying S#&$. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Oh I don't know. Perhaps not all enemy designs introduced are well-thought out and/or implemented?

Or... idk... a normal enemy having more than TWENTY F****NG TIMES the durability of any heavy unit of the same level is... you know... WRONG? Didn't such thought occur to you?

You didn't happen to think that there are people without maxed mods or prime stuff or syndicate weapons? That mods and cores to rank them don't grow on trees? You didn't even consider that said weapons are in fact TERRIBLE overkill for lvl 20-30 save for that ONE enemy?

I am MR21, I can laugh at those Bursas with my gear and 1,5k+ hours of ingame experience. But it doesn't mean that person with a Karak should have no damned chance to take on them.

If you'd bothered to read the other comments I've made you would've seen that I mentioned they should scale depending on what planet they're found on. Reading that would've saved you from the pointless, sarcastic rant you've made.

[EvilChaosKnight]

If you'd bothered to read the other comments I've made you would've seen that I mentioned they should scale depending on what planet they're found on. Reading that would've saved you from the pointless, sarcastic rant you've made.

If you'd bothered to read the comment I've made carefully, you'd notice that it has nothing to do with what you said. :P

There, allow me to highlight it.

of any heavy unit of the same level is... 

 

What you said is:

 

Currently they spawn on Mars etc at level 40 or so and wipe new players but if they were lvl 10-12 then they'd be a fun addition to the level, 

 

AND

BTW they only spawn if the camera spots you, it gives incentive to pay proper attention to the environment and disable the security if you wish to be stealthy.

 

BOTH of which are in fact a lie/misinformation.

 

The facts are:

1. They spawn around the lvl of the node. Like lvl 24 Bursa on Europa. Problem is, said lvl 24 Bursa due to its BASE stats has 20+ times higher tanking ratio that any other heavy unit of that SAME level.

2. They spawn every time Corpus guy manages to make it to an alarm terminal. Cameras don't do anything.

[Cryssoberyl]

I have more than 100 hours in the game by now, but I only started playing recently and still consider myself rather new. I understood that the new player experience was a little lacking, but various forums and the wiki helped flesh most of that out. I even forked over $25 when I got a discount for a daily reward even though I'll only ever use it for slots and cosmetic items and I didn't hesitate to do it.

These bursas have stopped my progress dead in its tracks however. I read to jump kick them but they get right back up before I can land and attack them at all. Slam attacks have no effect either. A single bursa spawned from alarms in a Corpus mission means I WILL fail, guaranteed, no doubts about it. Doesn't matter how much corrosive or magnetic damage mods I install, I die before putting a single dent in them, and in a few minutes solo-ing I'll have used up all my revives and I fail the mission.

Bursas in normal missions make the game unplayable solo and extremely difficult even when partied. They're killing my progression not to mention fun - they're orders of magnitude more difficult than the other enemies in the levels they will spawn into. I'm incredulous that developers would be so tone deaf to the experience of new players.

Edit: Tried some suggestions below and was able to wittle down some of its health, but I was still out of revives in less than a couple of minutes. The issue I'm bringing isn't just how to kill them at all, but how anyone can be expected to kill them when they pop up randomly if only certain frames and weapons can really give you any chance at all. If I'm unable to kill even one, at all, within five revives, something's either really wrong with me or with the enemy I'm fighting. Like I said, I'm still new, but I think I'm experienced enough and informed enough that most of the problem is with the bursas.

 

 

Pretty much came in here to write this. As a newer player, Bursas have essentially killed the game for me. Trying to progress through the starmap, I prefer to play solo, but even set to public it's rare to find groups on many nodes, and if so much as one Bursa spawns, the mission is unwinnable. I have decent weapons and mods, it doesn't matter. They destroy me everytime. I really just wish things were back to how they were a few days ago before I knew these horrors existed.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Cryssoberyl

[Wildrider123]

Oh no, something that is an actual threat. Yes, let's go back to the boring crewmen and MOAs and repeat the same kind of battles over and over again to slake our addiction to gambling. 

 

-1 to OP.

[Lost_Cartographer]

After some practice, the Bursas are no problem for me solo with that setup, as long as I don't mess up badly and somehow get 3 or more of them on me at once.  A team of 4 should have no problems taking down the Bursas, so long as they are competent.  I feel like a lot of players don't try to learn and practice, and instantly shy away from a challenge whenever their gear appears to be insufficient to play the game for them.  I don't think the game should be balanced around cowardice, coddling, and a sense of entitlement.  A basic level of competence should be expected.  

 

The constant mook reinforcements are a pain, though.  I think one wave of them is enough; do away with the respawns.  

They turn entirely too fast.  Unless I bullet jump past them just as they perform their ground slam, I have virtually zero time to line up shots to their rear.  And I don't know about you, but asking reinforcements to be put on hold while tangling with a Bursa doesn't seem to be a part of the game's flavor.  That only happens with units like Manics because they now seem to spawn only when the room is locked down.  Bursas need their turn speed to be sluggish (or more accurately, their shield deployment and undeployment to be slower than instant) and their health values dialed back. We need to consider the solo newbies because, not surprisingly, no one's running everyday star chart content.  At least, not publicly.  Expecting them to be in a group when they encounter a Bursa is even less considerate of their situation.

 

No, they're tuned too challenging in relation to everything else around them.  They need to be dialed back a fair bit.  People are okay with something that changes the way they approach a fight, but the Bursa is near assassin level difficult.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Littleman88

[Brasten]

The fundamental problem with the Bursas in "normal" missions is they were build as Mini-Bosses. Their in-game stats and very aggressive behavior patterns back that up.

 

This is like having Zanuka Hunter, Stalker, Grustrag Three, or the Juggernaut show up in your missions. However with those 4 there are ways to avoid having them. Don't kill a lot of bosses (Stalker), don't do large numbers of Invasion mission (Zanuka, G3), don't mass slaughter Infested (Juggernaut). Bursas currently appear at random when Corpus get alerted, this makes them very random and very hard to avoid.

 

And again they are Mini-Boss level enemies in difficulty, actually almost overscaled given their forward facing full damage blocking armor plates. They are also extremely swift despite their apparent bulk and very accurate.

 

DE needs to make a better choice about how they are deployed into the game as a general foe. There are several options.

 

The first it to actually treat them more like mini-bosses in the style of the Juggernaut and give players far more heads up that they need to hack the alert panels Corpus missions. There can be an Audio voice bark (Lotus or Tenno) to warn the players that a Bursa is on the way, which is the "hey, go turn off the Alert (white) state or its gonna show up shortly" warning. To further this some extra code needs to be added to the security cameras that after an set amount of exposure (cameras red and laser walls on) the Alert state is escalated. This means even if a player is zipping through the level just head of laser walls, eventually the Alert (white) state will trigger from accumulated time on camera. This is the KEEP THEM AS MIN-BOSSES option.

 

The second option is to scale back the Bursas into something closer to Bombards or Napalms. Remove or reduce their damage blocking forward shields and slow them down so players can out maneuver them. Lower their stats, and generally make them weaker. At which point they become co-bigs standing alongside Corpus Engineers. This is the MAKE THEM WEAKER option.

 

Both options are viable, but one or the other have to be done. Having them spawn like normal enemies while running at Mini-Boss strength is ridiculous to anyone who isn't an end-game veteran who solo's Sorties and T4 missions for fun.   

[Tesseract7777]

The title of this thread and its premise is utterly ridiculous. Why would we remove an interesting new enemy that presents a challenge? 

 

Maybe they shouldn't appear on some of the lower planets... but jeez... the game is easy enough as it is. Bursas are a good unit to have. 

[(PSN)DrakoVongola96]

The title of this thread and its premise is utterly ridiculous. Why would we remove an interesting new enemy that presents a challenge? 

 

Maybe they shouldn't appear on some of the lower planets... but jeez... the game is easy enough as it is. Bursas are a good unit to have. 

That's why.

[Hellmaker2004]

People complain the game is to easy.

Developers reintroduce a old event enemy you cant shot once to kill it.

People whine that said enemy is to hard, and repeat.

Maybe they have to high stats in lower levels i may understand that as a valid complaint. But they are still way to easy. All you do is dodge / Glide past them when they go into there bunker stance, and shoot them in the back. The only part that annoys me with the is the massive amount of particle effects they seem to have. Clearly to have visual effects to there attacks and therefore making them easier to avoid. But it tend to feel slightly over the top. Other than that they are still very easy even on high levels.

I for one hope they will stay, but i highly doubt they will once the alert is over.

[Misgenesis]

I have one complaint. Their HP is insane at sortie levels, its futile to try and kill one.

[Nod_Legion]

Got no problem with the bursas in normal missions.My angry rant is about:Came back online just 2 hours ago had no notification nothing!That bursa was added to normal missions,was expecting them to be added after tactical alert but not like this.

[KnightCole]

Also, it how do you untrigger them?  Lotus needs to either get her chat fixed, or the mechanic needs to work. 

 

But Lotus goes "The alarms triggered a Bursa".  So I reset the alarms and suddenly, incoming, bursas...

[fatpig84]

Bursas could use a spawn adjustment in lower level areas though.

No more than 2. 

And at the extremely low level ones like Venus / Mars, just 1.

 

 

But once in Pluto and Neptune ? Just unload em full sale.

You are not in the newbie leagues anymore.

Edited February 15, 2016 by fatpig84

[DrFail]

The Warframe forums are so desperate for a challenge that they've forgotten what the word means. Bursas are deadly, sure. But that alone does not make them a challenge. Rather, they are an exercise in tedium and patience that bring the mission pacing to a stop and ultimately have had very little polished since they were first removed, despite being the subject of lots of feedback. At least they don't flash the entire world white every two seconds and put people in hospitals this time, though. Have to say I am genuinely thankful for that. That's not sarcasm. Please keep it up, DE.

 

As for the bursa spawns, something has to give. I play Solo a lot, and they're much worse in solo compared to in group play. This could be fixed for me personally by making them turn around slightly slower but the big kicker here is that they spawn everywhere and are much tougher than any other enemy. This is fine for an end game player, but if I get bored because of how long I have to kite them, shoot them, and repeat with max forma weapons when I don't have a stun power ready, than I shudder to think of how they impact the newer player experience.

 

They need to spawn in special occasions. Sortees, Trials, Maybe alerts. Not the star chart.

 

Assuming for the moment that Bursa's do bring much needed challenge for end game players, it's still important to remember that regular old star chart maps do not need to be "challenging" to end-game players, it's not their job. Perhaps one could make a case for it for it on Pluto, but it's certainly not the job of, say, Jupiter deception. Bursas would be a massive frustration fest to a group of four new players, but one must also consider all the "dead" nodes when progressing through the star chart as well. If I was a new player and came across these guys on a dead node it is very possible I'd write the game off for its bullet sponge scaling issues and boring design right then and there.

Edited February 15, 2016 by DrFail

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I have one complaint. Their HP is insane at sortie levels, its futile to try and kill one.

Are you kidding? I killed them no problems, what were you using? Air Support charges seems to limit their spawning.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Zilchy

[African-Sapien616]

Just make sure the alarms are off and none will spawn. I just ran a corpus deception mission for red veil and I was excited to see bursas spawning after the alarms were triggered. I took them down easily (because sleep arrow courtesy of Ivara) and managed to get astral twilight stance. I turned off the alarms and got them to stop spawning for a while so i can hunt for medallions in peace as well.

[Heidrek]

Corpus are literally the squishiest faction, you'll learn all the tricks.

[RealPandemonium]

No, they're tuned too challenging in relation to everything else around them.  They need to be dialed back a fair bit.  People are okay with something that changes the way they approach a fight, but the Bursa is near assassin level difficult.

If everything around them is "sleepwalk unless a Tech is nearby," then I don't see a problem with an adversary that's actually engaging.  

[IRavenI]

I don't see the need to remove the bursa from the game, or have them just in events. The Bursa are a new challenge to the game and an interesting enemy to fight. However, I do believe that this unit needs some major reworks. My biggest issue is their spawn rate. It seems that many have had similar issue with being overwhelmed by several Bursa at once. Two, maybe three, of these units is a challenge, but 7+ at once is a bit much. Was running Cerberus, a mid level interception mission, with a friend of mine. We have done this mission many times before, with no issue what so ever. However, we found the mission impossible with how may Bursa there were. At one point, I counted at least 8 at once barreling toward one point. The combination of Bursa, who you need to maneuver around, and Mine layer Osprey, who essentially limit mobility, made it far too difficult to kill the Bursa quick before another one or two spawned. 

 

The main problem that I see is that the Bursa is a unit that should be seen as a: heavy, rare, and challenging unit that appears in small numbers, one maybe 2, to add difficulty to corpus missions. Having them spawn as if they are a regular unit, much like their lesser moa counterparts, has made many missions that should be easy for geared players, far too difficult. A mere decrease in spawn rate would fix this issue.

[AreeSoothsayer]

I find the Bursa to be an interesting toy to play with. Of course I also run Valkyr 8 out of 10 times. My combat Kubrow can take one 1 on 1 thanks to Armor-Link. However, I haven't done the lower level maps, I honestly would not expect such a powerful enemy to show up in a place designed to let new players learn the ropes. From reading all the comments, and ignoring Get rid of them posts, I find these to be the key points agreed upon.

 

1. Reduce their spawn rate, scaling with the planet.

 

2. More accurate health scaling according to level.

 

3. Mobility adjustment, focused on turning speed.

 

4. Bring back the Grineer version of Bursa.

 

5. Extend time between ability uses to limit rolling stun spam.

 

6. Allow players to hack if bursa is shock stunned (My idea) with timer included, failed hack responds to shock retaliation like spy sorties.

[Thebel]

I'd agree they are pretty stat heavy compared to other units of the same level.

If a level 40 bursa is able to one shot my Mesa with shatter shield up, I think there might be a problem when they spawn as often as crew men sometimes .

[RealPandemonium]

I'd agree they are pretty stat heavy compared to other units of the same level.

If a level 40 bursa is able to one shot my Mesa with shatter shield up, I think there might be a problem when they spawn as often as crew men sometimes .

Shatter Shield does not protect against AOE.  Bursas only spawn when alarms are active for some time, and do so periodically as long as the alarms are active.  

[CorpusCrewman]

At least, 7-forma corrosive Supra can kill'em in front. How wonderful.

Edited February 15, 2016 by KorpusKrewman

[venon23]

and there it is the type of problem DE faces long time ago how can they make the game challenging if what is too easy for a few is too hard for others i hope DE find a way till U21 too make all ppl happy and move on too create new content and fix old bugs cuz this year all i see is salt in the foruns