Tennogen on consoles and non-steam PC warframe Discussion

[ChronoPhX]

Just now, Bro_Z said:

and what's to stop the skin from being traded over and over after the initial purchase? It'll just circulate in the market and decrease in value like I said.

this sounds esoteric, way too complicated and stressful for anyone to deal with. It's not going to work. In fact, it further proves how unprofitable the system would be if Tennogen skins could be traded at all. The way you're explaining it sounds like such a hassle. 

Who cares if it´s circulating the market and decreases in value? The initial $$ price was already payed and won´t ever change.

Anyways I don´t see the point anymore in arguing over a system that´s never going to be implemented anyways.

[Me.KayOh]

tennogen will be available to purchase from the in-game market at some point. they've said several times now that they are working towards this but its alot of legal issues. I am very certain though, that these tennogen content will not be tradeable.

[OverlordMcGeek]

Just remove the deal with Steam and have it be directly from this site already.

Crossing fingers they only have less than a half year in whatever contract they made.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

12 minutes ago, ChronoPhX said:

Who cares if it´s circulating the market and decreases in value? The initial $$ price was already payed and won´t ever change.

Anyways I don´t see the point anymore in arguing over a system that´s never going to be implemented anyways.

 

Person B wants the Tennogen skin. Instead of buying it from Steam, they trade for it from Person A who had already owned the item, used the item, and no longer cared for it. That is two potential purchases being just one.

If the item was able to be resold, less total sales would go to the content creators. Instead of forcing them to buy the item at a major retailer, you are also allowing them to buy it from the flea market, for cheaper, at the same quality. Even were you going to buy the item no matter what, would you prefer paying more for the item if you could get it for a few dollars cheaper?

If the item was a token system meaning once a token is used the skin cannot be traded, then we run into the problem of others purchasing these tokens and trading for Platinum values larger than what they would have gotten by buying normally. It's the same reason Prime Accessories and other purchase-only items cannot be traded. 

I don't see this system working.

[Kai_Shiba]

Just now, OverlordMcGeek said:

Just remove the deal with Steam and have it be directly from this site already.

Crossing fingers they only have less than a half year in whatever contract they made.

Then please, what easy platform (like steam workshop) will the content creators be able to place their content that they create so easily that it can pay directly?

[Stratego89]

Tennogen would NOT work for trading: here is why.

People who were "selling" the Tennogen items would have no logical reason to accept less platinum than the money used to buy Tennogen- and on 75% discount. At that point the "platinum cost" for Tennogen items becomes absurdly obscenely high from the buyer's perspective and they may as well just buy the items directly.

HOWEVER- if DE could ever manage to figure out a way to work out all the legal stuff and offer the Tennogen items either as an option or only as platinum rather than steam wallet, which I BELIEVE is what they're working on... hopefully. Point is if they could do that- it would solve every issue they currently have in regards to them. They would no longer be exclusive to steam users meaning more buyers not only on consoles but even PC. It would mean people who can't afford to directly pay for items in game would be able to trade for plat for them from people who CAN which also means more sales.

 

TL;DR DE really shot themselves in the foot by signing on with Steam instead of just taking the time to work things out another way. All we can do is hope and pray they are not screwed by contracts and can offer us both existing and future Tennogen items for platinum rather than direct payment- while still giving the future designers (as well as current ones but that's a given) the same sort of payment that they are earning and agreed to.

[OverlordMcGeek]

1 minute ago, KJRenz said:

Then please, what easy platform (like steam workshop) will the content creators be able to place their content that they create so easily that it can pay directly?

In-game plat distribution and donation buttons like on the Nexus.

[ZodiacShinryu]

8 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

Because Content creators miss another person from getting the skin.

Person A. Buys the Token.

Instead of Person B buying the token for themselves and giving more profit for the content creators, trades with Person A.

Content creators gets no cut from it.

The only solution to the Tennogen skins is to be patient for DE to add it to all platforms. Coming up with "loopholes" won't change a thing.

You do realize this argument has the same parallels to piracy of digital goods. There is always the argument of getting said item from any other means than the intended exchange means the creator lost profit however on numerous occasions the opposite has been true.  This all depends on the quality of the item in question.

So no the creators do not actually lose anything in this particular situation as long as the person that can trade it can't also get a new one (or any number of replacements) for free. It doesn't matter who has the 1 item because someone paid for that 1 item.

Lets take me for an example. There is some neat Tennogen Frost skins that I'd consider using. However I am not ever going to buy them through steam. The content creator just technically lost a sale. But if another person buys a skin then decides they don't want and decides to trade it for plat then I could have the skin and someone still paid for it through steam. As long as the person that traded it doesn't have access to the skin anymore then in effect we traded a limited good that is tied to the initial purchase.

I'm not saying they should be sold directly for anything but money but after its already been bought it shouldn't matter exactly what is done with it. The problem is more the moral dimmea of is it fair to the creators to not benefit from such trades because inflation of plat is particularly one of the reasons why just putting things in the market would be tricky. That and technically Valve owns the rights to anything made on steam if you read their ToS. Its very likely that if Tennogen could be more widely available that the creators would see much more sales.

[Kai_Shiba]

13 minutes ago, OverlordMcGeek said:

In-game plat distribution and donation buttons like on the Nexus.

You mean the thing that they would get like zero donations from? Just offering free work and no payment?

Plat distribution? Again, zero profit will be made for them.

You also never told me what base platform they would be able to place their work on while also being directly paid.

Edited May 29, 2016 by KJRenz

[Troll_Logic]

7 hours ago, Myscho said:

Someone buy skin and sell to others for plat, where is profit for creators from next trades ??

There is no "next trade."  There is still only one item in the game.

[_Raiklar_]

unless the penalty or restriction as it were was like Syndicate items where said Skin could not have been worn/used by the player purchasing the said item. Like with syndicates. Items can be bought based on standing multiple times and trade as long as they haven't been used.

 

or make it to where it can be gifted. Player one buys it for him/her self and can't buy it to trade it for themselves, but can gift it to another player. this would make it to where for each player to own it a purchase HAS to be made every time. and both Players benefit.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Ookami_Nihonto

[TrinityLover]

the only thing that boders me about Tennogen is that I can't buy it with platinum, all these new skins looks very well designed but, what is the point of having platinum mainly for cosmetics if you cant use it?

Good Day

[EmptyDevil]

It would be a better compromise if we could trade those cosmetics.

[TennoPain]

I would not even be mad if some skins would cost like 1k plat 

Tho this is higly unlikely (DE already make enough money) but this is somethng that could potantaly mean a lot of ppl will think you need to buy stuff with real money in game 

Not all tenno are bright and a lot of them just leave the game 

We can hope new ''market'' will fix this problem 

[-Amaterasu-]

Tennogen stuff isn't made by DE.

Only DE makes money from platinum.

DE needs to compensate people for their work.

DE uses Steam for their Platform.

Steam likes money too.

DE charges real money so Steam/Contributers are happy.

Since they're so happy they keep making new skins. (repeat)

Tennogen stuff costs about the same ammout if not less that any other cosmetic in the game so it's not that bad if nothing else sell a few cards or something on steam to make the money it's not hard.

[Vaxillian]

1 minute ago, TennoPain said:

I would not even be mad if some skins would cost like 1k plat 

Pfft, I would!

I like the idea of making them tradable.

[-BM-Mitz]

It's better profit for DE and the creators to keep them paid exclusives.

Not to mention they have to consider all view points. Did you consider how people who already paid for these items would feel? Even though they have the plat to buy it at any price, they paid the money and if suddenly it get available for plat BOOM developers have betrayed a big part of the community that's willing to not only play, but invest and support the game. Suddenly buying them for plat doesn't seem like a great idea does it?

Edited May 30, 2016 by Major_Phantom

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

2 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

It's better profit for DE and the creators to keep them paid exclusives.

Not to mention they have to consider all view points. Did you consider how people who already paid for these items would feel? Even though they have the plat to buy it at any price, they paid the money and if suddenly it get available for plat BOOM developers have betrayed a big part of the community that's willing to not only play, but invest and support the game. Suddenly buying them for plat doesn't seem like a great idea does it?

I think it might have been better if it was tradeable 1 time then bound to account and untradeable. This was some people who dont have jobs could still buy the tennogen from other players for platinum. I assume plat value compared to real money value is a bit low because of  75% off discounts, chances are people would sell each cosmetics for around 400-500p.

It would work out for people who are pumping money into the game because they could get more platinum selling Tennogen items then buy plat itself.

[Katinka]

The issue with allowing Platinum payment would be that DE gives away Platinum and sells it at a discount randomly.  Giving us this discounted or free Platinum isn't a problem when it just means we get to unlock some more digital content with no construction materials or delivery costs to consider and only the initial costs of design to cover.  It becomes a problem when DE has to give money to Tennogen designers as commission per sale.  Suddenly giving away 1000 Platinum would mean they'd need to pay money to a Tennogen artist and a prize that technically costs nothing to give away would start to cost something.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Katinka

[5HV3N]

You make it sound as if DE was some kind of kickstarter startup company.

It's not.
They hire artists, as well as they contract artists.

This whole tennogen stuff stinks up to high heavens.
Only i feel that maktet stuff is increasingly rarer and of lower ever sice steam workshop tennogen took off?

And this thread won't be locked, it'll get deleted without trace (or not and I've made fool of myself for calling it)

Edited May 30, 2016 by 5HV3N

[SilvaDreams]

6 minutes ago, 5HV3N said:

You make it sound as if DE was some kind of kickstarter startup company.

It's not.
They hire artists, as well as they contract artists.

This whole tennogen stuff stinks up to high heavens.

And this thread won't be locked, it'll get deleted without trace.

Lol, actually they were. Warframe was funded by the founders.

Sure they'll take some people's artistic works that were donated and do their best to bring it to life but the Tennogen was brought in so the players could make and vote for what they liked.

[5HV3N]

15 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Lol, actually they were. Warframe was funded by the founders.

Sure they'll take some people's artistic works that were donated and do their best to bring it to life but the Tennogen was brought in so the players could make and vote for what they liked.

they were, over 3 years ago. It adds to the climate, but is outdated.

Chinaframe happened in between. This is fully fledged studio now. And should be judged as such.

And, while steam workshop's tennogen stuff is neat for whole "we're hipsters and play startup game, and it's founders still walk among us" it is redundant. Artist can be contracted directly (like what-not who designed trinity deluxe skin who's name slipped my memory).

And introducing more and more cash exclusives, and platform exclusives in game that sells premium currency directly is move I do not approve of.

Edited May 30, 2016 by 5HV3N

[ClockworkSpectre]

I refuse to buy any tenno gen items unless they become available in the game for plat.  

 

Yes I know its not an easy thing because legal reasons or whatever, but its crap that its only available through steam for cash.  If I have already spent money on warframe I should have to get warframe items another way.   I am sure there is some way to get all the involved parties their share of the sale even if it is bought from within game for plat. 

 

[Lost_Cartographer]

While DE could potentially calculate plat sales and turn those into real world dollars for Valve and the tennogen creators (look... $5 = 75 plat, $6.99 is around 105) it's a bit of a nightmare I imagine.  Suddenly they have to handle all of the calculations in house, rather than letting steam do all the work.  And let's not forget plat prizes and massive discounts.

I don't know if it's required for tennogen to be purchasable with plat for it to be allowed on consoles though..

[Fostinator]

6 minutes ago, ClockworkSpectre said:

I refuse to buy any tenno gen items unless they become available in the game for plat.  

 

Yes I know its not an easy thing because legal reasons or whatever, but its crap that its only available through steam for cash.  If I have already spent money on warframe I should have to get warframe items another way.   I am sure there is some way to get all the involved parties their share of the sale even if it is bought from within game for plat. 

 

You sound incredibly entitled. DE owes you nothing. The current system is fine. Cant pay for Tennogen items? Dont buy them. They are only cosmetic.