Vauban's building requirements are too high [Reply from DE]

[BlackCoMerc]

This constant insistence on adding Nitain for everything has grown tiresome. It's really insulting, at this point, and disrespectful of a players life outside Warframe.

When the game begins to lose players I think the start of the noticeable decline will be traced back to early 2016.

[_jorgi_]

People. People never change.

[Bizzaro21]

I`d be fine with the grind if DE didnt say they wanna reduce it....

speaking of, remember that lie about drop table dilution and why they remove primes to put others? hmmm, let`s take a look at t3 survival, rotaion C in specific.....

here rotation C has more drop items than the other 2 rotations combined......... and they removed loki and his stuff, not sure if one of them had smth to do with t3 surv, but why did they shove vauban`s part there? other keys have a lot of empty slots on their drop tables, smth like t1 surv, it hardly even has parts in its table, why not put a part of the new stuff there? same for t1 def, and a lot of other t1/2 missions that are rarely seen being done......

also remember ivara? that cancerous grind? how about Equinox? perhaps some nitain in there as well? 

in conclusion, DE pretty much lied when they said hey are going to reduce grind, the only thing I still hope will reduce grind is star chart 3.0....

 

Spoiler

source for drop table is wikia here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void/ByMissions

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Bizzaro21
Typos

[SilentMobius]

21 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

Then choose how to play that 1 hour wisely, if you want to get the latest stuff quicker and not pay. Instead of mucking around in relay or dojo, go run some voids for parts and then just try and selling them for plat when you have the time to play longer. Buying blueprints with plat down the line is better than losing your mind trying to farm them and the resources to build them at the same time.

Just think about it, the longer you wait, the cheaper it will get, you will also have more nitain by then, even if you are casually playing.

Get an alert app, everyone has a smartphone these days. DE shouldn't be holding players' hands just because those players choose to spend their time inefficiently.

I spend my time very efficiently thank you. And IMHO the last thing anyone should be trying to say with a straight face is "spend time efficiently" and "Trading" because trading in this game is for people who love sitting around not playing the game.

That said, what does any of what you said have to do with the distribution of Nitain being a bad mechanic? How does trading help you there? you can't buy Nitain.

I've said nothing about acquiring Vauban Prime, I've only been talking about Nitain (as it is the subject of the thread)

[Reifnir]

It's not called "NEETain" for nothing, you know.

Joke's on them, I guess. 

[-Temp0-]

3 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you only play 3 hours a day for a month,

Only. Only. You're aware that people have a life huh? Seems not, just like DE. Also what a great freaking game, play 3 hours a day just to farm bs oxium. No sorties, no raids, no void. Go farm beggars. Remember your place. You're not here to play the game, you're here to grind for opportunity to grind more.

Quote

and no one here has 0 Oxium

I'm sure as hell will have 0 oxium once I will (at last) get all his parts which also will take eternity. And I will be left with literally nothing, even though I already farmed for oxium in hopes that it will be enough if something will come up and if I build this something there still be be some amount of that oxium left to use later. And now I will need to start from scrath even though those 5000 of oxium were gained and saved during a playtime of 1000 hours.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[KiteoHatto]

14 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

I spend my time very efficiently thank you. And IMHO the last thing anyone should be trying to say with a straight face is "spend time efficiently" and "Trading" because trading in this game is for people who love sitting around not playing the game.

That said, what does any of what you said have to do with the distribution of Nitain being a bad mechanic? How does trading help you there? you can't buy Nitain.

I've said nothing about acquiring Vauban Prime, I've only been talking about Nitain (as it is the subject of the thread)

What i said wasn't directed towards you specifically. It was in regards to "an hour of playing is an hour of playing regardless" and people who choose to spend their short available time not so....well, yet wanting everything that those dedicated players get.

Nitain is the best resource that's happened to Warframe, it can't be bought with plat and all players have to dedicate their time towards getting it(at least after the 90 day Vauban PA). Not all warframes are made equal, why should they all be aquired equally ?

It's about commitment goals and rewards :)

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I think the main issue here is the fact it seems such outrageous build requirements are becoming the norm, and not the exception.

When Staticor came out with it's 10 Fieldron requirements, I raised an eyebrow... When Sibear came with it's whopping 30000 Cryotic requirements, I started complaining... And now we have a single frame that requires a whopping 20 Nitain to build, 9000 Cryotiic, 7000 Oxium and 2 Argons, plus ridiculous amonts of common resources like 31000 Alloy Plates, 16000 Salvage.

DE said they were working on decreasing the grind, yet they seem to be doing everything they can to increase it. Compare Vauban Prime to something like Frost Prime, who required minuscule amount of every resources, compare it to Sarny Prime, the previous prime frame, which required reasonable amount of resources, even with it's 6 Nintain requirements, and you start to see the pattern even more clearly : DE want us to burn our long standing, hard earned resources at an increased rate, forcing us to farm more, to play more... To grind more.

Only, in a farming intensive game like Warframe, farming even more plain sucks... There's already a significant grind in getting the damn prime parts to even drop, not taking into account the grind for the keys required to access the void.

Everyone is already complaining about drop dillution in void missions, how pretty much everything is in rotation C and how the void drop tables and RNG system needs a rework, yet all you guys can think about is adding another grind wall in terms of resources. We worked our asses off building decent stockpiles of most resources over years of dedication, and lately, you guys seems intent in burning our stockpiles in days with outrageous build requirements.

As a pretty active player, I had managed to acquire a stockpile of 22 Nitain, precisely because I wanted to be ready when new stuff came out. In a single frame, that stockpile is now pretty much gone. That should not happen. Everything has a cost, and choosing a reasonable price is your job.

Failing to do so angers your fanbase, make it almost impossible for newcomers to get something and overall only generates user frustration...

Sure, you might coax some people to buy a prime access because of this, but in the bigger picture, you're going to lose people like myself, who simply get tired having very little to do in the game besides menial farming. Games live and die by their content, and I feel Warframe is content in giving us a quest every four months, a couple mastery fodder weapons and trying to occupy us with grind, not actually having fun. I know making new , meaningful content is more work that reskinned mastery fodder with outrageous farming and build requirment, but at one point, perhaps it's important to focus your energy where it counts, both fixing the issues everyone keeps complaining about and giving us actual new content...

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Charko]

Vauban Prime farming with a competent team from scratch.

First you'll start by doing Excavation for the cryotic with the corpus around lvl 20 (Nekros Terrify to protect the excavator + desecrate for Oxium and energy cell)
You'll get T2-t3 keys, oxium and cryotic. After you'll head to the void and pop your keys until you run out, then head back to the oxium farming into a corpus interception.

Just for the prime parts more or less 20h in the void if you have a very competent team.

Spoiler

BP : T3 Sab = 5,64% every +/- 10 min
Chassis : T4 Def rotation C = 5,64% every 20-30 min
Helmet : T2 Sab = 5,64% every +/- 10 min
System : T3 surv C = 5,64% +/- 20 min
So you'll have to run each of these 18 times to have 1 chance to get it.

Nitain… Just pray rngesus for a week and a half long that you are logged at the same time the alert pop. Or go to a grineer sabotage mission with 0,67%, 1% and 2% drop chance once you find all caches…
 

Well and I though mesa was a pain in the *** to farm.

Good luck everyone.

[notlamprey]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, XtDK said:

It's pretty pathetic that WF players are actually /defending/ this. "Oh, I no-lifed this game and have TONS OF STUFF, how DARE people think they can have fun with a game. You need to just rethink grinds as fun and stop being UNGRATEFUL" or the classic, "WHAT YOU WANT QUICK GRINDS EVERYWHERE! TWENTY MINUTE GRIND HUE HUE"

When, if anyone is being honest, we're talking about several dozen hours of grinding. For just another Warframe.  This line of thinking is self-destructive, shallow, and asinine- even for people who already have all of the resources needed (like I do).   This may come as a shock, but people who have no life and spend 20 hours a day farming repetitive warframe missions are the vast minority of the population.  One-shotting enemies for hundreds of hours in random Excavator missions are not fun for a vast majority of people.

If you find wasting your life fun, that's great. Glad you enjoy it. But other people don't. That's the problem.

See, MMO games die when their player base dies.  And a declining playerbase also prompts Devs to do stupid things that increase grind, add in pay-walls, and generally ruin the experience until the servers close.  These gestures not only force away all but the most hardcore players but also shuts out new players, making it impossible to recover.  What will DE do when they're actually desperate? WF is profitable, this sort of greed is completely unnecessary to stay soluble.

The real cost isn't in money. It's not in player retention. It's the fact that Warframe is a vertical cliff of grind that new, free players have little to no hope of getting into. And those free players are what keeps the ques for missions short of paying players.  They are not getting a free game, they're making the game we pay for playable.

Everyone loses with this selfish "I wasted my life on pixels, they should waste theirs too!" line of thinking.

 

Entirely agree. I have all of the new item costs covered, and then some. Am I ok with the resource cost increase? Absolutely not.

I remember a time when I could pin my ears back and build up a big pile of "x resource," sit back and feel good that my stockpile would hold for a while. Those days are gone, and I no longer feel like my time put into the game is respected. The boulder is starting to roll, and if we don't stop it soon (or now, or yesterday perhaps) the game we love will no longer love us back.

At MR21, I have a comprehensive arsenal. A tool for every job, a cheese for every situation. I can play the game at "maximum efficiency," but that is now the only way to keep ahead of the cost and grind creep. I will not be farming for these new prime items. Instead, I will be buying them from other players using platinum I earned through gameplay. This brings me to a point that bears repeating:

Lately, the way to get what you want in Warframe is not to 'try and get it.' Instead, you go farm something else you don't care about, and sell that work for platinum. What has happened to this game when the 'best' way to progress is not to actually try to progress, but to go work a digital job?

I'm increasingly suspicious that it was, in fact, Sumpo that happened. As stated elsewhere, that isn't a jab at DE. It's a simple fact of business. Sumpo invested, and I think their ethos is creeping into the game.

[TennoPain]

It will stay like this untill DE find a way around it : TBH since last update i played liek 10 h and farmed 70% of ''new stuff'' 

Tho I must admit im HC player and have no life (i can see how ppl who dont have enough time would feel about this)

[.Tuopadre.]

I don't mind farming hours perhaps days for a single pieces or resources as long they have reliable sources, but... Oxium? Nitain? Materials shouldn't be rng/time gated, that's plain stupid.

[Marvelous_A]

I just don't understand why DE is so persistent to put all the good stuff in T3S/D. Look at those stupid drop tables. We get a chance to get some useful stuff every freaking 20 minutes and nearly half of the table is trash. WTF DE. And don't even mention Void survivals and defenses are boring AF.

[(XBOX)deepeh]

1 hour ago, Mcl_BlueMadness said:

You should probably try regular Vauban out first. Or even just farm Vauban Prime if it's more viable. If you like it, you could buy it for the platinum and extra goodies.

But if you just want the frame and the weapons, it's probably more worth it to farm them, even if it's harder, since you don't really know what is it that you're buying.

Thanks for replying and i feel like buying it would be much easier plus i didnt know you get over 2000 plat so i think im gonna have to

[Sloan441]

I'll admit to being a bit surprised by the low drop chances of all his parts. I didn't really consider that possibility. There's always that one part that's damned hard to get. With VaubonP, it's all of those parts. Other than that, it's prime business as usual.

It's going to cost me more keys, but I have lots, so...might take a few more days to a week longer than I thought it would.

I've seen a lot of whining about construction costs, but if you play the game regularly, you should already have this stuff in large amounts (aside from Argon, of course). If you don't have this stuff, then you have only yourself to blame. This weighs a bit more heavily on new players, but primes aren't for fresh fish and it gives them a goal to work towards. Or should, anyway.

 

[Mcl_Blue]

If the plat and the goodies interest you, then yeah, I'd say buying it is worth it regardless of Vauban and the weapons. I hope you like them nevertheless.

[Circle_of_Psi]

This topic still exists?

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

7 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

This topic still exists?

Yes it does, because Digital Extremes is being unreasonable and it's not fun.

[ComfyOlivia]

Well, Vocal minority of Warframe, you'be officially confused the hell out of me.

This is a thread about a video game, right?

Then why exactly is it suddenly acceptable to NOT have to play the game to progress in it?

Imo, if anyone is acting "entitled" in any stretch in this entire situation, it's those that think it's better to get a random alert, beat it in 5 minutes, and that's all they have to do until the next one shows up 3 hours later, than to actually sit in a mission and play the game for half an hour for resources. Isn't that the point of every single game? To actually PLAY it? Going past all the BS of "Well, Vauban was harder to get, so this is fine", how is Nitain acceptable? I love DE and their game, but the more I look at this resource, the more I think they don't actually care if we play the game or not. I mean, for anyone who has 0 Nitain, and Nitain is all they need to make everything that requires Nitain at this point (about 71 Nitain total; and because it's likely nobody is going to tell a newer player they should start going after Nitain alerts ASAP), and this is assuming they don't quit because not playing a game to succeed in it is freaking off putting as hell, it will take them over a month of waiting for 2 of these alerts a day (if they manage to catch 2 a day) to get everything they need. And they wouldn't even need to play more than about 15 minutes a day to do this.

Guys, this is silly. You can't seriously say that Nitain is a GOOD thing unless you think not having to play is the way to go. I can get not wanting to farm for hours. I don't want to do that either. Nitain is really just a cop-out. Instead of actually playing for a few hours, you just wait for the few hours doing something else. While that sounds nice, wouldn't you rather actually play the game for like 30 minutes (another possible solution)?

[KiteoHatto]

2 minutes ago, CoRRh said:

Guys, this is silly. You can't seriously say that Nitain is a GOOD thing unless you think not having to play is the way to go. I can get not wanting to farm for hours. I don't want to do that either. Nitain is really just a cop-out. Instead of actually playing for a few hours, you just wait for the few hours doing something else. While that sounds nice, wouldn't you rather actually play the game for like 30 minutes (another possible solution)?

I say nitain is a good thing only because its a universal resource that forces all players(paying and non paying) to play the game to get, it's the first real progressive long term goal that this game finally has. Sure, it's not implemented perfectly, but it's still some form of goal.

Im sure DE will find a better way to implement it for new and upcoming "endgame items" now that they've seen this backlash.

[AurumandArgentum]

12 hours ago, AsBlueAsBlue said:

I'm quite sure it is not methane or farming Nitain would be so much easier. Just put a plastic bag or container behind your butt.

Apparently it's special methane farmed from some underwater animal.

[(PSN)Sgt_Buttscratch]

Nitain comes from underwater vents, we have underwater maps, why is not not a farm-able resource from Uranus. Pull it out your..

[KiteoHatto]

Do you like the game enough to spend money on it ?

Do you have extra money to spend ?

Do you like CC frames ?

Are you a relatively new player with limited mods ?(this is probably the only bad thing about vauban builds, you need a bit of everything to mod him)

Are you low on nitain and oxium and do you only play a little bit daily ?

 

If yes to most of these then just get the pack.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto

[(PSN)Ombretour]

"14 000 Oxiums! Oh after all, 7000!"

Hmmm I think DE does not play the same game as us.
I have 2200+ hours on game and 5600 Oxiums. 
Please play your game, test your game, the fun, the farm... 7000 or 14000 its the same. Oxium are boring to farm !


 

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)InBloodWeTrust

[PrVonTuckIII]

I would advise getting it simply to go with DEs master plan to force us to buy PA.