Vauban's building requirements are too high [Reply from DE]

[SilvaDreams]

Honestly the grind is fine, this happens with every new weapon or frame. The smart people stock up on resources specially the new ones and play the star chart while those who don't (Or just grew up on draco) whine and cry about the horrid cost of the new toy they can't have instantly due to their lack of foresight.

[Madway7]

29 minutes ago, Gravalite said:

Well, at the end of the day if you find you still need more Oxium then I recommend going to Triton on Neptune to farm it as there is Oxium Ospreys there for days. And since it's an Excavation mission you can farm up some Cryotic, keys and cores as well while you're there. 

Can you be more specific?

How much Oxium did you get in X amount of time/excavators?

 

 

On a side note: I've heard that there are players that will defend DE's decisions to the death, but dang....

[Madway7]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Solargeo said:

It has been a while since i put my two cents in to something.  make it 2 Nitan per part and 3k oxuim  for the part that needs it. 

I would settle on removing Nitain from the bp (change it to 10x Orokin Cells) and make it about 5k Oxium.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

before I would have said it was bearable, but these blatant increases in Resource requirements, and increased demand for rarer void keys are starting to make me have doubts. this is a dark time: Vauban Prime was supposed to be something we could all enjoy, but it has been stained by the obnoxiously large amount of grind needed for those without plat to acquire him and his gear. as such, it has made us all question whether or not DE are starting to go down a dark and slippery slope. I would certainly expect these kind of tactics from say, EA, or Bungie or activision. but I trusted that DE would not go down the same road. perhaps I was wrong to put my faith in a business. perhaps I was a fool to think that maybe one developer could run a game without resorting to stuff like this.

i know why they're doing it, it's to try and get you to buy that PA, but people were still buying them before in droves, before Nitain even existed. they didn't NEED to change their tactics to be more aggressive. Vauban is one of the most loved frames their is, his prime access was basically a license to print money, EVERYBODY wants it. but then they had to get overzealous about it, and now we're here.

the reason I'm so concerned is because this is the same kind of stuff that Destiny started doing, and anyone who played Destiny before it's DLC's will know what I mean. it makes me think that DE are going to go the same direction, and I really, really hope they don't.

don't give in to the Dollar DE, don't let it consume you like it has so many others. you can help players enjoy the game AND still make money.

[Hypernaut1]

59 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

If the game offers little else *aside* from work grind, it's a signal that there's a shortage of meaningful content, not that you should shut up and grind more. 

Tactical alerts, events, bosses, quests - that's good.

More of "let's stand in one spot, pressing 1-2 keys all day long" is NOT good. 

I'd rather see a quest line for Vauban Prime (vanilla Vauban being rather unique in acquisition and all) or a special, level 100+ Sortie - anything, really, than just having to engage in grind that offers no challenge whatsoever (aside from being time-consuming as hell). 

Yeah, im sure they would love to release a 10hr long cinematic quest with each prime too, but it just aint happening. 

The game  has ALWAYS been 90% grind. Thats the game. Thats the only reason why you have 1000+ hrs.

I welcome the grind. I like feeling that the resources I have actually mean something. 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

3 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

I would settle on removing Nitain from the bp (change it to 10x Orokin Cells) and make it about 5k Oxium.

yeah how about 4k oxuim and 1 nitan per part just to keep the semi alert frame theme 

Edited May 18, 2016 by (XB1)Solargeo

[DitsyPixie]

14 minutes ago, XRosenkreuz said:

You seem really hostile about this, hey? I mean, you seem to have completely glossed over the part where I said it took me over 200 runs to get Ivara's chassis. I'm not sure how that implies I'm particularly lucky. But, since you brought it up, no, I don't think there's a problem with the drop rate. Yes, it's low. What do you expect? It's a rare resource. If you honestly think you should be getting it to drop left and right, the problem is with you, not the game.

Except that you claimed it's viable to farm it on sabs, mostly based on your own experience where you got really lucky. For the unlucky percentiles a 2% chance is gonna mean they can do for example 80-150 runs and still only get 1-2 nitains from it. Sab caches are not a very viable farm unless you get really lucky. Also slippery slope much? I only said 2% per mission on a single mission type is pretty darn low, nothing about expecting it to drop left and right. It's you who's inferring a whole lot including the hostility.

[Madway7]

Just now, (XB1)Solargeo said:

yeah how about 4k oxuim and 1 nitan per part just to keep the semi alert frame theme 

That would be too low since Nitain alerts come at least twice a day (unlike Vauban parts).

[Madway7]

16 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

You have the ability to farm Oxium on those nodes, which people do for hours and hours, at an incredibly high rate for it's usage. Since you CAN farm at such a high rate, and many HAVE farmed at such a high rate, you are now EXPECTED TO farm at such a high rate. The time to do something about this has long past. 

 

7 Oxium for 50 enemies per 40 minute match amounts to roughly 400 an hour. This amounts to roughly 17 hours of farming. If you only play 3 hours a day for a month, that's still more than enough time to farm it from scratch of you take just 40 minutes of that time, and no one here has 0 Oxium. If you do, you have better things to worry about than Vauban Prime. This is only a problem if you instantly want to build it right now, a DAY after launch. Somehow having 80% of the requirements by default many times over isn't enough for you post, is it? 

You neglected to mention the mission you tried.

[xxswatelitexx]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The last item in the game to require Nitain before Vauban Prime was the Zhuge. That was on March 16th. Between March 16 and May 17 there have been approximately 250 Nitain alerts. Vauban Prime only takes 20.

I know this sounds like meta-complaining when I say it out loud, but I promise you it's actually genuine bafflement. I genuinely, honestly cannot understand.

I ask you, hypothetical Tenno who hates Nitain, straight up. I'm not asking a rhetorically such that the question is an insult, this isn't sarcasm:
What really is THAT BAD about Nitain?

 

Majority of people can only play with certain specific hours.

Please redo your calculations of how many Nitan Alerts existed between 7pm and 10pm.
Then about 40 - 50% of those Alerts are the only ones which will be available to the user.

[TheBrsrkr]

4 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

You neglected to mention the mission you tried.

Cerberus, not like it matters. Even if you only get 100,you have a WHOLE MONTH. 

[Marvelous_A]

Said by a guy who probably has no job or maybe no real life at all.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

9 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

That would be too low since Nitain alerts come at least twice a day (unlike Vauban parts).

well I just want to make it need nitan but barely any 

[SaurusRex]

The resources I'm not too bothered about. But multiple rare drops that only come from T3S C? That can go to hell. 20 minutes of tedium for a single chance at a rare drop and there is absolutely nothing you can do to either improve your chances or speed it up. Defence? Get a speed nova. Capture? Use volt. Exterminate? Use [insert nuke frame of choice]. Sabotage? Get a good group and split up. But survival? You can be an arthritic MR5 with a bo, or MR22 with the best modded prime gear plat can buy who headshots fleas at 200m, it doesn't matter. You will wait 20 minutes for your prize. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200p.

Edited May 18, 2016 by SaurusRex

[Valiant]

3 hours ago, Zilchy said:

You can farm Nitain in the new Sabotage missions by finding all the caches but that still doesnt make it acceptable.

I wouldn't even class it as that much of a farm either considering the reward rate for nitain in the sabotage seems to be awfully low. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Naith

[X5934-078FR1]

No. New or newish players are not supposed to have stocked up resources to get all the stuff instantly.

[PrVonTuckIII]

I kinda feel like ever since DE was bought out, the grind has slowly become larger and larger. A good example is the Vauban PA. Not only are the build reqs absurdly high and ridiculous (even with the faulty reasoning of vet players and their stockpiles), but all the parts have low drop rates, drop in Rot C, and in T4. DE is literally pushing us to buy PA at this point. 

But to be honest, I think a lot of us, myself included, are waiting for U19 to see how Steve deals with the Bourbon list and fixes the grind.

[SenorClipClop]

16 hours ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

Wowzers. I knew it'd be high, but I thought it would just mostly be nitain and argon. (Predicted 20 nitain and 15 argon - enough to make you roll your eyes, but...it's the RNG nightmare Vauban....now, as a prime, so i get it)

the Oxium though? if 14,000 is correct, then LOL. I remember when they said that the sibear needed all of that Cryotic to "use up" the excess resource (because, you know, that 2% of the playerbase that farms fusion cores all day had a lot of it...so umm yeah....justified).

According to their own market prices, 300 Oxium costs 30p. That's 1400p worth of Oxium for a resource to craft a part that is used to craft a Frame. YIKES.
Yep, glad I bought PA.

First of all, nobody should be buying crafting resources for platinum. That's just sillly.

Second, I had more than enough Cryotic when Sibear came out, and I don't play Excavations more than other missions.

Finally, things are going to cost more now. That's just a fact of Warframe. The Stradavar requires Argon and 8k Polymer Bundles. The Infested weapons of U18.5 have all kinds of lofty building requirements. Every Warframe released since the advent of Nitain extract has required it as an ingredient. Which, by the way @Arkel-99, you can now farm from Reactor Sabotage.

This cost creep is not only useful, but necessary in a game like Warframe. Since veteran players can acquire credits and resources at an incredibly high rate (much higher than new players) and already have heaps of crafting stuff, new items need to have requirements that aren't insignificant to these veterans. If VauPrime cost as much to build as any regular frame, crafting him has no impact on these players and they could just blaze right through all the new content. By making stuff more expensive, it forces players to think more carefully about how they allocate resources. These crafting requirements also limit newer (and often more technical) content to players who have been with the game for a while, while new players learn the basics with cheaper-to-craft weapons and Warframes.

And hey, DE's reducing the Oxium requirements after realizing the amount was a little silly, so we don't have to worry about that.

[Valiant]

2 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

I kinda feel like ever since DE was bought out, the grind has slowly become larger and larger. A good example is the Vauban PA. Not only are the build reqs absurdly high and ridiculous (even with the faulty reasoning of vet players and their stockpiles), but all the parts have low drop rates, drop in Rot C, and in T4. DE is literally pushing us to buy PA at this point. 

But to be honest, I think a lot of us, myself included, are waiting for U19 to see how Steve deals with the Bourbon list and fixes the grind.

Something tells me it might not truly be fixed. It'll just feel less grindy. It might very well still be the same but with smoke and mirrors of trickery and distraction. Could end up increasing the grind.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Naith

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, Naith said:

Something tells me it won't be fixed. It'll just feel less grindy. It might very well still be the same but with smoke and mirrors of trickery and distraction. Might end up increasing the grind.

Well that remains to be seen. If the Void blow-up is done right, we could be seeing an era in WF where you won't need to do a T3S 50 times over in order to get that one part.

[Tsukinoki]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

See, when I read this, this implies that all you can do is sit still at your nav screen and literally wait for the Nitain to show up. I find this absurd. I'm MR21 and I have collected everything (except Spira Prime), and I'm still playing random missions whenever I log in for my daily reward. It's not like if you require Nitain you can't actually do anything else

This I also find absurd. A few HOURS a day? As in, more than two hours? You are statistically looking at at least one nitain every two days

I only have one and half to two and a half hours a day to play warframe.
In the past month I have seen 4 nitain alerts.
That is it.

I've played this game consistently since Nitain was released and I have barely any because RNG doesn't agree with my timeschedule.  And its a pure crapshoot.

That's the problem with Nitain.  You're stuck there hopeing and praying and begging RNG that it gives you an alert in the timeslot that you have available to play in.

Not everyone can just have the alert app running and then suddenly drop everything in their life to play some Warframe.

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

If you log in every day, you're going to see some Nitain

I log in every single day adn play it for 1.5 to 2.5 hours and have barely seen any Nitain.  Fact of the matter is that depending on your timeslot of playing you wont see Nitain at all.

3 hours ago, XRosenkreuz said:

I've personally gotten 6 out of somewhere between 20 and 30 runs, so I wouldn't really say 'abysmal.' Low, sure, but what worth getting isn't?

Hey, congratulations on being lucky!

I've ran 157 high level Sabotage missions, getting all 3 caches every time, and seen zero Nitain from all that.

The drop rate is fraking abysmal and really needs to be increased so that you can gain at least 1 or 2 Nitain per day regardless of when you can log in.

Or better yet: Lets just make the 4 Nitain alerts per day each last 6 hours or so so you will at least get one Nitain per day.
Because honestly getting one per day would be enough for me.

Honestly the level of RNG timegating with Nitain is nearly as bad as Y1 Destiny RNG....

Edited May 18, 2016 by Tsukinoki

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

14 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Said by a guy who probably has no job or maybe no real life at all.

It's annoying seeing the same rhetoric is so many games. Add all the shortcuts gamers tend to do to speed up farming and all -- THEN -- come to forums to complain about "no new content", years of that does become a pain to read for the nth time.

Make the content too easy to get -- "I'm bored!"

Make the content hard to get -- "RNG sucks!"

Can't satisfy anyone because all they really want is everything now, and then still come back yelling ... "I'm bored" (as they don't appreciate earning something they'll value). 21 frames in the game, 210 would still not be enough as that 10% burns through everything ... and v-e-r-y vocal they can't have 420!

[AsianLyf]

59 minutes ago, DeFragMe said:

Well, lets assume you are a new player (why ever he needs vauban prime), Thats nothing, thats just a month long each day an hour playtime. i had more trouble with helios/zephyr as the spawnrate of oxiumdrones was way lower and i only got 1-5 oxium per kill.

and i personally think thats an acveptable time. 1hour each day for a month to get something shiny, the blueprints wont run away afterall. just the oxium drones..

 

And afterall thats calculated for solo play without any kind of booster addition.

If i specificly was drawn to the game because of vauban, then I'd assuming that the person would want it right away, but instead they are faced with either RNGesus or a grind for resources that are rare and hard to grind for.

[Darkwave1098]

3 hours ago, clemza said:

As i said, just play the game, don't try to rush the new items and you won't feel disapointed with the huge requierments as you will get ressources without noticing it.

As i like to farm keys and cores, i got many cryotics on hieracon without noticing i was farming for the sibear for exemple, of course its alot and even too much, but you can't say that it is a problem or something that shouldn't happen, if you play the game you will get evrything, it is just a question of time.

You prefer items that we can farm in 20m all of the time ? For now its just 1 weapon and a prime warframe which is not even 1% of the game content :/

 

Excuse me but, are you daft?

Oxium is NOT a resource you'll have lots of "out of thin air". We're not talking about nanospores, or alloy plates, or ferrite.

I like to go on survival missions for fun on different planets, that being said I stocked up on a lot of resoures over the time. Wanna know how much Oxium I have after 3 years? 6k.

6,000 Oxium, no more, no less.

Of course getting all the items between 20 minutes would be bad, everyone knows that. But gating them behind a truckload of "Hey kill this uncommon enemy that only drops 10 Oxium all over and over again just cuz we said so, oh and he's not lighter than zephyr even though he costs as much as building 11 Zephyrs" is just ridiculous and it leads people to believe that DE is forcing us to buy the PA.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Darkwave1098

[10thdivine]

21 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

First of all, nobody should be buying crafting resources for platinum. That's just sillly.

Second, I had more than enough Cryotic when Sibear came out, and I don't play Excavations more than other missions.

Finally, things are going to cost more now. That's just a fact of Warframe. The Stradavar requires Argon and 8k Polymer Bundles. The Infested weapons of U18.5 have all kinds of lofty building requirements. Every Warframe released since the advent of Nitain extract has required it as an ingredient. Which, by the way @Arkel-99, you can now farm from Reactor Sabotage.

This cost creep is not only useful, but necessary in a game like Warframe. Since veteran players can acquire credits and resources at an incredibly high rate (much higher than new players) and already have heaps of crafting stuff, new items need to have requirements that aren't insignificant to these veterans. If VauPrime cost as much to build as any regular frame, crafting him has no impact on these players and they could just blaze right through all the new content. By making stuff more expensive, it forces players to think more carefully about how they allocate resources. These crafting requirements also limit newer (and often more technical) content to players who have been with the game for a while, while new players learn the basics with cheaper-to-craft weapons and Warframes.

And hey, DE's reducing the Oxium requirements after realizing the amount was a little silly, so we don't have to worry about that.

Yep and this way there is a sense of progress as you cant just get  anything you want with little effort.There are easier things to aquire and more difficult ones to get.Im fine with this