RNG is not RNG

[TennoPain]

Since every drop haz certain % its not RNG its GRIND 

And it makes ppl crazy as hell (I have no life so i dont care) BUT 

ITS NOT RANDOM if it haz % on drop there for : made, done, or happening without method or conscious decision

So its not RANDOM -.-'

[(PSN)robotwars7]

weighted RNG is still RNG. you still have a chance to get a rare drop, but your chance is decreased because it's weighted.

it IS random, just not ENTIRELY random.

[ashrah]

grind is become over the top.....

[SaurusRex]

Can someone translate this into English for me?

[Madway7]

I think people try their best to put a % chance on it since it's a lot more simple to explain that way.

While I played Runescape the percentages were based on a sample of x amount of attempts... such as 100 boss kills. Item dropped once, so 1% drop chance.

Idk about here.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Madway7

[B0wtie]

I'm logging into my Warframe forums account for the first time just to tell you that you have no idea what the concept of RNG actually is.

 

Let's say something has a 5% chance of dropping. That's a one in twenty chance of it dropping. Now take a twenty sided dice.

 

Did you roll a 1-19? You don't get that "thing". Did you roll a 20? You get it. That's how RNG works. It's a random chance to acquire the item based off one "dice roll" per mission, or per 5-wave interval.

[-QueenUnicorn-]

my friend i myself got fed up with trin prime when she came out, so i said no more hours of wasted time, so now i simple do one to two runs a day, and if i dont get it, i move along and play something more enjoyable

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

Theres nothing random in numbers, this game is based on MATH and math is all but random, guess anybody knows

[TennoPain]

Grind is not normal anymore ''a lot of my friends say its all because of ppl who buyed off DE (and they are makind them do this)

TBH i dont know but its a fact GRIND got worse 

De dont ban me i was just asking ?

Also that definition in OP is actually definition of RANDOM so your opinions do not matter 

Thats my answer to ppl who dont understand whats the point of this :)

[Weidro]

RNG is nothing more than a random number generator

and every number has ALWAYS a % chance

just take a D20 for example every number on it has exact 5% chance to appear

so ur telling me that just because the numberw have a % chance its not RNG anymore ? my dice isnt RNG ? every dice isnt RNG ?

i think u missed the meaning of RNG

oh and grind is just a way to deal with RNG but its not a system

[Trichouette]

It's at least the hundred'th (I don't even know how to write/say that word) thread with the exact same thing inside.

It's called "weighted loot table" which means it's still RANDOM. It's not "equiprobable" but still random. Therefore RNG AND grind.

[TennoPain]

READ ThE DEFINITION OMG 

Edited May 19, 2016 by TennoPain

[AdunSaveMe]

11 minutes ago, SaurusRex said:

Can someone translate this into English for me?

Semantics.

[B0wtie]

4 minutes ago, TennoPain said:

Grind is not normal anymore ''a lot of my friends say its all because of ppl who buyed off DE (and they are makind them do this)

TBH i dont know but its a fact GRIND got worse 

De dont ban me i was just asking ?

Also that definition in OP is actually definition of RANDOM so your opinions do not matter 

Thats my answer to ppl who dont understand whats the point of this :)

You're really something else, kiddo.

[izzatuw]

Grind = Grinding for things like affinity and focus points.

 

RNG = Playing that one mission over and over again to get a chance to get something.

[Letter13]

Weighted RNG (what the system is) is still RNG.

The % chance for drops isn't guaranteed; rather, if you performed an infinite amount of runs, the results would be in line with the %s. i.e. 15% chance for A, 35% for B, 50% for C; after an infinite amount of runs you would have that distribution of A's, B's and C's.

However, since we are NOT able to perform infinite runs (literally impossible), the distribution of rewards you get exists as a subset of the set of infinity, meaning you may not exactly get a 15, 35 and 50% distributions of A's, B's and C's. It is perfectly possible to only get A's, only get B's, or only get C's after, say, 20 or so runs precisely because it's random and because you're not performing infinite runs.

In random systems, it is not unheard of to get lots and lots of repeated results (i.e. flip a coin a whole lot of times and you'll likely see a long string of constant heads or tails at certain consecutive points in the set. The chance for consecutive repeats of the same result is less so for a 6 sided dice, but it is still possible to roll repeated 1's, 2's, 3's, etc.).

 

Think of it this way; each time you play a mission, you roll a 100 sided dice to determine your reward. If you roll a 1 to 15, you get reward A. Rolling 16 to 50 gets you reward B. Rolling 50 to 100 gets you reward C. Each of these rewards has a 15, 35 and 50% weight, but because you're still rolling a 100 sided dice, it is completely possible that you never wind up rolling a 1 to 15, or a 16 to 50, or that you only roll results between 1 and 15.

 

This is how the game has always been. In fact, almost all online games that have drop tables (such as MMORPGs, RPGs, etc) use this system. Why do they use this system? Because it works.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

21 minutes ago, TennoPain said:

Since every drop haz certain % its not RNG its GRIND

Well, I know you never played WoW, or 100000000000000001 would've posted telling you in the nth detail what is and isn't RNG. =:o

RNG is simply a random number generator that spins the roulette wheel of what loot drops. What drops depends on the number rolled.

It's the fairest -- but annoying -- way to randomize loot drops (otherwise set loot drops causes mobs of players to only play set zones).

[Dhrekr]

18 minutes ago, SaurusRex said:

Can someone translate this into English for me?

"I fail at realizing that a grind can be motivated by a Random Number Generator. So I am angry. Roar."

I'm paraphrasing very freely.

[Grimm]

26 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

I think people try their best to put a % chance on it since it's a lot more simple to explain that way.

While I played Runescape the percentages were based on a sample of x amount of attempts... such as 100 boss kills. Item dropped once, so 1% drop chance.

Idk about here.

% come from "datamine" here shhhh. 

[DjaAkh]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)KrakenUnchained said:

Theres nothing random in numbers, this game is based on MATH and math is all but random, guess anybody knows

Tell that to probability calculus!

2 minutes ago, TennoPain said:

Grind is not normal anymore ''a lot of my friends say its all because of ppl who buyed off DE (and they are makind them do this)

TBH i dont know but its a fact GRIND got worse 

De dont ban me i was just asking ?

Also that definition in OP is actually definition of RANDOM so your opinions do not matter 

Thats my answer to ppl who dont understand whats the point of this :)

No, dude. No. What you wrote is far from a definition of random. Randomness is the lack of patterns and predictability in events.

Also... don't really think, DE asks you for asking math questions.

But seriously, guys: Your exact loot is determined by a random number generator (RNG). A RNG generates numbers as randomly as possible. For this usually you use a function, that is (close to be) impossible to invert and use it on a so called "seed" number. Then you use the function on the result. And again. And Again and again and again and... well, you get the point. Since every single instance of the call of your function produces a result from which you cannot derive the original number, the result with each step appears more and more random. You can improve the whole thing, by taking rounding errors (which are pretty much random) as part of the method and using an actual random number as seed (cursor position, temperature in west Limmerick, ...), but netherless, you'll have a method, that for all you care, creates random numbers, since the outcome is pretty much unpredictable. Very mathematically btw ;)

Now, really good RNGs will create random numbers from an interval with the same probability for each number, but here's the thing with weighted chances: Let's say, you got a RNG, that gives you a number between 0 and 1.0 with each number having the same chance. Now, you want to know, what you'll receive after a mission in Warframe. Your drop table says something like

Super-interesting prime part: 0.001

Half-way decent prime part: 0.01

Junk prime part: 0.3

A single silver fusion core: 0.689

Now, what you need to do is to create a number with your RNG and compare it with your drop table. If the number is smaller than 0.001 then congratulations! If it's between 0.001 and 0.01, then still good for you. However, even though, the number will be most of the time be larger than 0.3 (giving you your well deserved core!) it is still random! You don't know what random number will show up (hence the name), therefore, you don't know, what you'll get. You might now, that the probability for a core is significant higher than for a prime part. But that's because the loot table is not random. The number used on the loot table, however, is!

I hope, that helped a bit.

[(PSN)KrakenUnchained]

2 minutes ago, DjaAkh said:

Tell that to probability calculus!

No, dude. No. What you wrote is far from a definition of random. Randomness is the lack of patterns and predictability in events.

Also... don't really think, DE asks you for asking math questions.

But seriously, guys: Your exact loot is determined by a random number generator (RNG). A RNG generates numbers as randomly as possible. For this usually you use a function, that is (close to be) impossible to invert and use it on a so called "seed" number. Then you use the function on the result. And again. And Again and again and again and... well, you get the point. Since every single instance of the call of your function produces a result from which you cannot derive the original number, the result with each step appears more and more random. You can improve the whole thing, by taking rounding errors (which are pretty much random) as part of the method and using an actual random number as seed (cursor position, temperature in west Limmerick, ...), but netherless, you'll have a method, that for all you care, creates random numbers, since the outcome is pretty much unpredictable. Very mathematically btw ;)

Now, really good RNGs will create random numbers from an interval with the same probability for each number, but here's the thing with weighted chances: Let's say, you got a RNG, that gives you a number between 0 and 1.0 with each number having the same chance. Now, you want to know, what you'll receive after a mission in Warframe. Your drop table says something like

Super-interesting prime part: 0.001

Half-way decent prime part: 0.01

Junk prime part: 0.3

A single silver fusion core: 0.689

Now, what you need to do is to create a number with your RNG and compare it with your drop table. If the number is smaller than 0.001 then congratulations! If it's between 0.001 and 0.01, then still good for you. However, even though, the number will be most of the time be larger than 0.3 (giving you your well deserved core!) it is still random! You don't know what random number will show up (hence the name), therefore, you don't know, what you'll get. You might now, that the probability for a core is significant higher than for a prime part. But that's because the loot table is not random. The number used on the loot table, however, is!

I hope, that helped a bit.

Since theres a percentage, anything here is based on math. Random means that an item got the same equal chance to drop, here is not, theres a stated percentage that DE put on anything (and that imo they used to vary pretty often, id say weekly)

[matto]

12 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

This is how the game has always been. In fact, almost all online games that have drop tables (such as MMORPGs, RPGs, etc) use this system. Why do they use this system? Because it works.

I don't think anyone said this system should be called into question (well except for those supporting a pure token system, but they are a few and gave up on this idea).

It's the level of grind that should be questioned.

Edited May 19, 2016 by matto

[-NTB-Cris0407]

Go any defense / survival  anything with friend

Go together / make host migration (ON START) get the rewards / share it with friend?

Edited May 19, 2016 by Cris0407

[(PSN)AngelShur]

The word  G-R-I-N-D still has the word you're looking for ID- R-N-G

Grind is a hidden message from RNGesus...

[PickleMonster21]

I could do a run once and get the rare part I wanted.

I could do a run one hundred times and still not get the rare part I wanted.

Pretty sure that's Random Number Generator.

 

 

Now, this definition is for Pokémon, which is all I could really find out of two minutes of googling "What does RNG mean?"

RNG stands for Random Number Generator, and is what the game uses to determine seemingly random events which [?]actually follow a pattern[?] (shininess, IVs, natures...). This pattern can be exploited to make the game give you virtually whatever you want, but it requires some good timing. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by PickleMonster21