Nekros desecrate toggle - a nerf or a buff?

[(PSN)haffmo]

34 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

No... no it is not. Heal/Tank affect gameplay, loot drops... don't. I don't get the jealousy thing, could you expand on that one a bit more? Right now you "need" a very select team comp in order to do something in a mission that has no effect on the actual gameplay of that mission. Thus, having to switch frames is limiting your gameplay styles when you want to farm. Warframe is all about the grind/farm, which is not a bad thing as long as the grind/farm is fun. If you limit the grind/farm to only a few frames you are limiting the gameplay itself.

I am still confused on the jealousy thing...

Energy health orbs and air supply clearly effect gameplay and resources determine if you can build things. Example of jealousy ppl care about stats and kills so if a frame can be built that outkills others ppl get mad. When some are supperior at using a frame others want it nerfed. All this op talk is hidden jealousy. If any resource farm frame should be nerfed it is hydroid. He kills at farming 

[DrBorris]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)haffmo said:

Energy health orbs and air supply clearly effect gameplay and resources determine if you can build things. Example of jealousy ppl care about stats and kills so if a frame can be built that outkills others ppl get mad. When some are supperior at using a frame others want it nerfed. All this op talk is hidden jealousy. If any resource farm frame should be nerfed it is hydroid. He kills at farming 

Something as integral to gameplay as LS should not be so dependent on such a few amount of frames. You don't "need" a healer to go extended missions. You don't "need" a tank to efficiently play. But if you are farming, you do "need" a farming frame.

Hydroid kills at farming" Since when? They nerfed the drop chance being affected by power strength a long time ago, Nekros is the king by far.

 

And holy sh!t, because someone wants something nerfed it does not mean they are "jealous". That is the most BS argument out there. The point of nerfing AND buffing is to allow for diversity in a game so it does not evolve into one meta load out.

And either way, I am not saying that a nerf is necessary anyway. It may be a buff, it may be a nerf, it completely depends on the time it takes to desecrate each enemy. Even if this does turn out to be a Desecrate "nerf" it will be a Nekros buff now that you can use all of his abilities rather than being stuck in a DJ animation all the time.

 

And I thought people would like the idea of more diversity in farming groups...

[(PSN)haffmo]

They say don't fix that which isnt broken. They already made you have to constantly move. Making desecrate toggles based makes him less efficient if he cant get energy. As is he is very handy. Providing air supply energy and health. If done properly nerfing and buffing can help, but it shouldnt be based on a few that dont like the frame or weapon. Nekros was the least op of any frame. Crappy health and armor makes you need to move and use other skill. Set frames and groups are necessary for different missions. Farming is a different play style. The same people complaining also got draco nerfed and soon to be gone on ps4.

[Vox_Preliator]

Will it be a nerf or a buff?  We have no idea yet.  It's really, really foolish to take what was shown on stream as the final product when otherwise was explicitly stated.

For all we know, every chunk of enemy will give forty-six extra loot rolls and work instantly.  For all we know, we have to activate the ability and then aim at a specific corpse for one extra loot roll and it takes three seconds.

I really don't see what a thread of hypothetical speculation could accomplish.

[jjpdn]

So... SotD buff to counter Eximus only Sorties?

I mean, cool, Desecrate, but would be great if they made SotD not completely useless in certain missions.

Edited July 25, 2016 by jjpdn

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Will it be a nerf or a buff?  We have no idea yet.  It's really, really foolish to take what was shown on stream as the final product when otherwise was explicitly stated.

For all we know, every chunk of enemy will give forty-six extra loot rolls and work instantly.  For all we know, we have to activate the ability and then aim at a specific corpse for one extra loot roll and it takes three seconds.

I really don't see what a thread of hypothetical speculation could accomplish.

 

Technically, nothing in this game is a final product. So where do we draw the line?

There's nothing foolish about hypothesizing. It's the actions you take that can make you foolish.

It's also not speculation since we have evidence.

[TARINunit9]

On 7/23/2016 at 6:32 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Nekros is a severely underwhelming frame to begin. Having one ability that does absolutely nothing to help with in game situations does not improve his lot.

-snip-

 

Oh well. I will skip this prime access for certain. Nekros is not a favorite of mine.

Ironically you've fallen into the same trap you criticize "Old McNekros" players for: thinking Nekros has no value outside of Desecrate

Terrify, though expensive (and also pretty bad upon his initial launch), is great CC if you need to stall the enemies out. Creeping Terrify helps out in Survival so that the CC'd enemies don't actually manage to take cover. Shadows of the Dead, although not particularly deadly, REALLY helps take the pressure off your team. Shield of Shadows makes Nekros one of the game's better tanks

He really just needs some QoL (Soul Punch is super unreliable, for example) and that's what this Desecrate change is supposed to be

[(PSN)haffmo]

You remember when they nerfed the twin grakatas from 48k sdps possible to 17k sdps possible. Atleast they arent doing it without our knowledge.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

I dunno how I feel about this.

Nekros had a distinct, if annoying utility.  I'd rather the drop rates were friendlier and we simply didn't need Desecrate in its current incarnation at all.

Screwing with it without tinkering with the problems it was attempting to solve, though, seems like a problem and I can't get behind this solution.

[(XBOX)Skode]

It's a buff, they would never nerf a frame just before there's a prime access to sell him off the back off. In broader terms now no one needs the role of button spammer whilst everyone else runs about killing everything with a swagger... toggle abilities dramatically improve most abilities, I'm glad they did it.

Not convinced I'll no longer need Natural Talent as Rebbecca stated but we shall see, if after testing I'm feeding up a mod slot too then that's also a massive buff as far as I'm concerned as he's got some amazing augments does Nekros.

[Absolonium]

On 7/24/2016 at 9:55 AM, ZaneCyber said:

Despoil is a staple, always has been. Anybody not using that + Natural Talent + Max range + Max Efficiency on a Nekros build and saying they can desecrate were playing Nekros Wrong.

Now, the new Desecrate is a nerf to the Ability, but it is a buff in how it won't break players fingers and "3" key or associated bind in long survivals.

Just please don't make the number of corpses affected per second power related, or it will be unbuildable.

Please stop pushing your dogmatic beliefs on every damn nekros player you encounter. There is no "WRONG" build. Only inefficient builds. But just because people have inefficient builds, that doesn't mean it's not FUN.

I myself, a nekros player, am a bit nervous with the upcoming changes. I do not use despoil because I enjoy the extra nice mod slot for him. After these changes, I think I already HAVE to use despoil because zenurik and energy siphon won't just cut it. At least I get to use weapons on nekros now. Which is nice.

[Ketec]

If it's a toggle aura and moves along with you, is not limited to 1 target, has worthy range and does not cost extra energy per desecrated corpse - it's a buff.

No need for cast speed or to stand still and spam it - instead you can also fight.

But for some reason i doubt they would buff it - looking at mags rework, will likely turn into a gimmicky useless feature.

[Laidain]

Neckros sucks so bad without his augments.He is literally useless without his augments.The only "okay" loadout I can think of for neckros without augments is energy conversion.But even then with that mod  your still going to be relying on desecrate to keep those health orbs coming .Overall,I say neckros needs a rework.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Pratigious

[theraot]

I wonder if people here have given some though on this: Trinity will probably be unable to give energy to Nekros while he is using desecrate.

Why? because that happens with other toggle powers too...

So, people saying that despoil is not good or that with energy pods or trinity you will be fine... think again.

Well, energy pods would still work :v

[Cryostasisprotoss]

6 hours ago, theraot said:

I wonder if people here have given some though on this: Trinity will probably be unable to give energy to Nekros while he is using desecrate.

Why? because that happens with other toggle powers too...

So, people saying that despoil is not good or that with energy pods or trinity you will be fine... think again.

Well, energy pods would still work :v

You know that you can deactivate for a moment right? I play equinox for the most part and I use zenurik but why you may ask if you have a toggle ability you are not gonna receive energy.

To this I say you don't need to have the ability always on. You can deactivate for a moment and then activate it again. Use a trinity or pad, even zenurik.

In term of nekros, I been using him outside of farming with the augments and is a beast. Shield of shadow is perfect for survivability and distraction, the shadows do some damage is just that it is not noticeable.

Creeping terrify is amazing. The slow and the ability itself is pretty good, panic botton without the augment but with augment a pretty good cc ability.

Soul punch need some love, the augment for it is semi good. You can revive pretty easily allies but that it. I have use this ability only when I am leveling nekros after a forma.

 

I will have to agree nekros without augments is not that good, but not the weakest as people made it seems. 

Nekros is not only desecrate.

And for the people that only use him for farming have no saying in this. Nekros is awesome.

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Cryostasisprotoss

[-Sandman]

7 hours ago, Ketec said:

No need for cast speed or to stand still and spam it - instead you can also fight.

But for some reason i doubt they would buff it - looking at mags rework, will likely turn into a gimmicky useless feature.

You can fight while using desecrate, in fact if its a toggle ability you will probably be able to fight less. One corpse at a time no matter how you look at it is a nerf, even if they improve the rng slightly. 

I'm sure they will make it like other reworks so that his abilities "synergizes better", which more than likely means they will indeed work better together, albeit less effectively as a whole. 

[Ketec]

42 minutes ago, -Sandman said:

You can fight while using desecrate, in fact if its a toggle ability you will probably be able to fight less. One corpse at a time no matter how you look at it is a nerf, even if they improve the rng slightly. 

I'm sure they will make it like other reworks so that his abilities "synergizes better", which more than likely means they will indeed work better together, albeit less effectively as a whole. 

IF it is a aura type - and will just desecrate everything in range while draining energy - then its easier to fight - no need to stop and spam it in one place.

[-Sandman]

6 minutes ago, Ketec said:

IF it is a aura type - and will just desecrate everything in range while draining energy - then its easier to fight - no need to stop and spam it in one place.

So if you equip despoil it will drain health instead? 

[Ketec]

Just now, -Sandman said:

So if you equip despoil it will drain health instead? 

Yes, it does - it did in the devstream. But that's fine with all the health orbs.
The only issue i saw in the stream was that the range looked tiny and it seemed to only desecrate 1 enemy at a time. Doubt they give toggle aura and infinite enemies.

[-Sandman]

6 minutes ago, Ketec said:

Yes, it does - it did in the devstream. But that's fine with all the health orbs.
The only issue i saw in the stream was that the range looked tiny and it seemed to only desecrate 1 enemy at a time. Doubt they give toggle aura and infinite enemies.

Well tbh on paper it sounds to be about the same as now, as when you're fighting you're not desecrating, and in the new system although you are desecrating when fighting, you are desecrating less corpses. Of course from all previous pre PA changes it seems as though it will be buffed until PA is done, then nerfed. Brilliant marketing imo. 

[Ketec]

1 minute ago, -Sandman said:

Well tbh on paper it sounds to be about the same as now, as when you're fighting you're not desecrating, and in the new system although you are desecrating when fighting, you are desecrating less corpses. Of course from all previous pre PA changes it seems as though it will be buffed until PA is done, then nerfed. Brilliant marketing imo. 

The nerf part might be  the number of corpses and desecrate time - other corpses will simply disappear meanwhile.
Even worse if its died to power - yet u need duration and range at the same time.

[-Sandman]

5 minutes ago, Ketec said:

The nerf part might be  the number of corpses and desecrate time - other corpses will simply disappear meanwhile.
Even worse if its died to power - yet u need duration and range at the same time.

The buff part will be to get a slightly better chance at the drop table which obviously will be quietly dialed back later on. 

So in a attempt to limit 1 button spam frames they are introducing a change this is making you build even more for 1 ability. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by -Sandman

[(PSN)haffmo]

I definitely kills stuff  with my desecrate terrify built nekros. I aint bring no low tier or mid tier weapons. I still can desecrate all bodies. Anyone saying it is a buff doesnt desecrate nearly enough. If you cant gain energy from pads or trinity it is a nerf. I use prime flow so my energy  is 425. It cost 13 to desecrate  and I still need energy. Wasting life to desecrate seems not ideal when high lvl enemies can one shot and even with health and shield mods he is squishy. I am surprised they would nerf him before his prime, but this is one.

[(PSN)haffmo]

9 hours ago, Pratigious said:

Neckros sucks so bad without his augments.He is literally useless without his augments.The only "okay" loadout I can think of for neckros without augments is energy conversion.But even then with that mod  your still going to be relying on desecrate to keep those health orbs coming .Overall,I say neckros needs a rework.

If you suck at nekros without augments that is on you. I last over 2hrs team t4 survival. I can stay alive kill and desecrate my butt off. If resources arent valuable to you good.

[Ketec]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)haffmo said:

I definitely kills stuff  with my desecrate terrify built nekros. I aint bring no low tier or mid tier weapons. I still can desecrate all bodies. Anyone saying it is a buff doesnt desecrate nearly enough. If you cant gain energy from pads or trinity it is a nerf. I use prime flow so my energy  is 425. It cost 13 to desecrate  and I still need energy. Wasting life to desecrate seems not ideal when high lvl enemies can one shot and even with health and shield mods he is squishy. I am surprised they would nerf him before his prime, but this is one.

You miss the large number of healt orbs and simaris orb -> armor augment. The health lost vs constant armor buff makes you way more tanky.