The Stalker is Teshin and here's why - A theory with many a possible spoiler. Read at your own risk.

[arch111]

Where did you get that it was Stalker who interrupted the somatic link in the pre SD mystery message?

I thought it was the brief interruption of the Moon going into the Void. I never heard mention of the Stalker in relation to it.

[ObviousLee]

1 hour ago, TennoPain said:

I dont think OP is right i guess you will feel like u lost time on the writing part grammar etc.

but +1 to you for being the LORE player (we need more lore players) 

and why don't you think i'm right? and honestly even if i'm wrong i don't see it as a waste.

[ObviousLee]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Where did you get that it was Stalker who interrupted the somatic link in the pre SD mystery message?

I thought it was the brief interruption of the Moon going into the Void. I never heard mention of the Stalker in relation to it.

google stalker hacked loading screen.It also came out shortly before TSD, which was stalker and tenno heavy in its lore.

Edited August 4, 2016 by ObviousLee

[CloudyPard]

 

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, OceanTempest said:

 

i laughed harder than i wanted to. great post.

[arch111]

Um, I still can't find any conclusive about the mystery message being Stalker.

This was a teaser for Second Dream. And the moon is moved. Stalker and Hunhow tracks it after reading Natahs mind.  That's why I don't think of Stalker but of Natah taking control. 

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, arch111 said:

Um, I still can't find any conclusive about the mystery message being Stalker.

This was a teaser for Second Dream. And the moon is moved. Stalker and Hunhow tracks it after reading Natahs mind.  That's why I don't think of Stalker but of Natah taking control. 

that teaser shows a tracking signal being detected and all the systems cycling to remove it.

[BornWithTeeth]

The thing about that piece of information is that by itself, it doesn't actually point to Teshin or the Stalker. It only looks like evidence for the Stalker tracking the Operator if you are already convinced that that is what is happening, and that means that it is bad evidence.

 

The transmission says one thing and one thing only: There is an outside signal attempting to track the Transference wave. Nothing in that message says anything about the Stalker.

[ObviousLee]

35 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The thing about that piece of information is that by itself, it doesn't actually point to Teshin or the Stalker. It only looks like evidence for the Stalker tracking the Operator if you are already convinced that that is what is happening, and that means that it is bad evidence.

 

The transmission says one thing and one thing only: There is an outside signal attempting to track the Transference wave. Nothing in that message says anything about the Stalker.

the thing about that piece of information is it was released as a piece of information for players to connect the dots. once it had been translated i put it together that the operator and the warframe were seperate. Saying that a piece of information that is released as a teaser for the upcoming patch that is entirely about the sentients, stalker, and the tenno  doesn't point to it relating to the stalker, is about as sensible as being given a set of car keys and someone saying it has nothing to do with a vehicle when your birthday is approaching. It's illogical.

This information was released again, just before a major lore update that it related to directly. This isn't me saying it, it's the game.

Edited August 4, 2016 by ObviousLee

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

the thing about that piece of information is it was released as a piece of information for players to connect the dots. once it had been translated i put it together that the operator and the warframe were seperate. Saying that a piece of information that is released as a teaser for the upcoming patch that is entirely about the sentients, stalker, and the tenno is doesn't point to it relating to the stalker, is about as sensible as being given a set of car keys and someone saying it ha nothing to do with a vehicle when you're birthday is approaching. It's illogical.

This information was released again, just before a major lore update that it related to directly. This isn't me saying it, it's the game.

Yeah....the part where you extrapolate from there and say "That's why it means that Teshin is the Stalker, because he uses Conclave to hack all the Tenno Somatic Links", that's where it leaves behind any direct link or statement. Just saying "It's there to be extrapolated from" can be used to justify saying anything.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Yeah....the part where you extrapolate from there and say "That's why it means that Teshin is the Stalker, because he uses Conclave to hack all the Tenno Somatic Links", that's where it leaves behind any direct link or statement. Just saying "It's there to be extrapolated from" can be used to justify saying anything.

no. that one single piece of information is not what points to Teshin being the stalker. the entire set of information points to him being the stalker.

and it can only be used to extrapolate if it has a clear connection. if there is no logical connection to make then no, it wouldn't apply. However, a piece of information that in hindsight is glaringly obvious when you look at it hinting at the somatic system that the operator uses. It also clearly states that a tracker signal is suspected, and the system begins recycling to flush it. this is not conjecture, this is fact. this fact, is directly related to the secret of the tenno, which is revealed in the next patch that updates and adds to the lore. not five patches, not sixteen. the next one. the very. next. one. the lore linking teshin to the stalker, starts at the war within trailer. The rest of the information follows after. 

the use of the conclave to intercept a somatic signal makes the most logical sense as again, the signal has to pass through a space teshin is in direct control of. there is nothing at all in the rest of the game that hints at, suggests, or even matches up technologically(presently known) with being able to gain access to the somatic signal. but we know something is able to gain access and track it. to say it has no value or relevance to the patch it came out just before, or to say that after that patch it has no future relevance is again, nonsense. 

If you can't make the connection, then study the lore more. Just because you aren't seeing it, doesn't mean it isn't there. It also doesn't mean that the connection is correct or incorrect. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

1. Canonically, the stalker wins. again. at the end of TSD you lost save for your WF distracting hunhow. he'd won. game over. you're dead. So that is to say, what evidence do you have to suggest that Teshin wouldn't have used the knowledge he has of the conclave to hunt his targets?

What evidence do you have to suggest that Teshin would've used the knowledge he has of the conclave to hunt his targets, if he even had any? There's no evidence suggesting he didn't, and no evidence suggesting he did. This part is a logical jump.

6 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

3: again, nobody was aware of the location of Hunhow until his tomb was discovered and opened. Meaning nobody but those who were present, flat out, would have the location of his tomb. period. Saying someone being present at a particular location for an event, and then a mysterious figure makes contact with the evil being who manifested there is completely unrelated? Because that's sound logic isn't it.

Because the Sentients haven't already found other means, like sending out oculysts to announce their presence.

6 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

4. you're not familiar with the concept of a double agent are you, or someone genuinely bent on screwing people who've pissed him off on a massive scale. These are not unfamiliar thought processes. Again, the most logical thing to do for the stalker in this situation, would be to remove both the tenno, and the sentients from the picture to ensure the safe rule of his Queens. This is simple logic. To say that teshin simply would not take this route, motivated as the stalker, without any evidence so suggest a reasoning as to why it wouldn't be him, your counterpoint falls flat.

So in order to wipe out the Tenno, Teshin decided to revive the sentients, another enemy of the Orokin Empire, while Warframes are specifically created to combat them? 

6 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

5. Logic. Removing the only two threats to the entirety of the rule of the last Orokin royalty can only possibly make sense. unlsee you've something that the game would suggest to counter that.

Teshin has absolutely zero desire to help the Grineer. Even if he did, he's going to be exposed to a lot of infighting with Vay Hek, Kela, Ruk and Regor's forces that will be directed at him, because he has the same origin as the Queens.

7 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

7. Technologically speaking, it makes more sense to intercept a command signal as it's passing through controlled rendered space, than "he prolly jacked into it when we approached it" considering when we approached it he was shooting exalted blades at you inside your orbiter.

True's it's far more likely to be from space. However, there's zero telling if he hacked in or not. He could've been to the somatic link first than us. Not going to make logical leaps at this point.

7 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

8. The Queens are the last of the orokin royalty. They were also locked away and neglected during their lives in the orokin empire. meaning they had no access at the time to any of the advanced orokin tech, like say making void keys. when the betrayal happened, everything stopped working. If you didn't have the proper genetic clearance, you couldn't operate the tech. That means no solar rails, no ship navigation save for rare circumstances, no new warframe production. nothing. everything, stopped. all of it.

It is entirely possible that they stole it, as evidenced by Captain Vor's Janus key. And even then it does not prove Teshin is Stalker.

7 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

read the lore, intensely. study it. because if you're going to argue relevant lore with me, you should probably know what you're talking about.

I thought this is a discussion, not an argument.

[ObviousLee]

52 minutes ago, Madho said:

What evidence do you have to suggest that Teshin would've used the knowledge he has of the conclave to hunt his targets, if he even had any? There's no evidence suggesting he didn't, and no evidence suggesting he did. This part is a logical jump.

Because the Sentients haven't already found other means, like sending out oculysts to announce their presence.

So in order to wipe out the Tenno, Teshin decided to revive the sentients, another enemy of the Orokin Empire, while Warframes are specifically created to combat them? 

Teshin has absolutely zero desire to help the Grineer. Even if he did, he's going to be exposed to a lot of infighting with Vay Hek, Kela, Ruk and Regor's forces that will be directed at him, because he has the same origin as the Queens.

True's it's far more likely to be from space. However, there's zero telling if he hacked in or not. He could've been to the somatic link first than us. Not going to make logical leaps at this point.

It is entirely possible that they stole it, as evidenced by Captain Vor's Janus key. And even then it does not prove Teshin is Stalker.

I thought this is a discussion, not an argument.

it is a discussion. the problem with your posts, is the lore says no. not myself. Example, you do realize that both the corpus and the grineer serve the queens, right? like both of them. Both grinnies and dem bodies both serve the queens with unquestioning loyalty. the Lore within the game proves this. so, why would a servant of the queens and possible dark guardian of them, be fighting against the two groups that serve them unerringly? that, makes no logical sense. There is nothing in the lore to hint at a desire for a Coup against the queens either, so thats out the window.

evidence of teshin using the conclave? well, the statement has been many times that if stalker were teshin, the conclave would logically be the best place to obtain somatic signals, as again, signal must pass through rendered space that he controls. there is no evidence to say that he does this, i'll admit. however there is evidence that someone does indeed jack into your somatic signal. so we know that part is a fact. considering the relative timing of the release of this fact in direct comparison to the update that brought out the lore that including and referenced said fact is too close to be any kind of coincidence. Had that hacked signal picture never been released then it wouldn't be usable logical evidence, but it was. That hacked signal loading screen ties directly into TSD, which highlights on the difference between the warframe and operator, gives the stalker a more active role as well as explaining mysteriously how he operates. Simply put, that loading screen showed two things. 1: that a signal was being sent to and from something, that used a very elaborate system, it was later discovered this was the somatic relay system used to control warframes: Transference. 2: that there was something jacking into that signal and tracking it. That singular piece of information tied directly to TSD, again, Stalker, Tenno, Sentient. it's not much of a jump to go oh, hrm this might apply to stalker as well somehow. like maybe how he tracks us. so on this point, although there is nothing to prove that is how the stalker tracks us, there's nothing to disprove it either.

well, the queens would HAVE to steal it. How else would stalker be able to make the void keys when he's not the genetic clearance? how else would Vor get the Janus key to begin with? It's pointedly clear that the twin queens very much possess the ability to utilize orokin tech. the connection though, is that Teshin being in that stalker room, the stalker being able to get his hands on void keys, in a likely similar fashion to Vor, who most likely get them from a singular source: being the queens. It's entirely likely that if not the conclave(going with unknown tech for the sake of discussion) then it would require a machine that is directly tied to the Warframe Program. Now since there's nothing to suggest there is or isn't, I can't really say no it's not possible. However, If that were the case, It still puts teshin in direct proximity to a pair of beings who most assuredly handed out void keys to no less than two beings in the game that are our enemies.

 

also, occulysts are scanning drones. once engaged in any manner that is hostile, they bolt.

Edited August 5, 2016 by ObviousLee

[PookieNumnums]

 

 

warframe fragment

the true nature of the Warframes and their Tenno connection is a secret lost to the Old War. Together, they represent our best hope in turning the tide of the machine war. Warframes are unique from Dax and other Infantry, deploying dangerous and esoteric Void energy, and equipped with often mundane physical weapons – this is key to fighting an enemy that had turned our technology against us.

 

UNIQUE FROM DAX and other infantry

 

warframe technology fragment 

A mysterious weaponized armor controlled solely by the Tenno. Through the Warframe, Tenno can cheat death, channel the forbidden Void energies and face scores of enemies without fatigue. Due to apparent resistances of their Bio-Metal exoskeletons, Warframes can be safely deployed to Infestation Outbreaks, should they occur. In-depth information of the Warframe mandate is forbidden to all but the Seven.

 

CONTROLLED SOLELY BY THE TENNO

Pseudo:

adjective

1.    not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false orspurious; sham.

2.

almost, approaching, or trying to be.

 

 

teshin being a pseudo tenno to me was an insult, like calling him a wannabe, for working on behalf of the orokin with the tenno before the fall, and with the tenno after.

 

warframe can only be controlled by tenno, stalker is a warframe. zanuka contains parts of warframes, and is controlled via alads toiletseat necklace. mutalist alad controls infested mesa with his mutalist toilet seat. in the mesa quest lotus says that mesa is controlled by the infestation, as is alad during his corresponding communication. it can be assumed then that the only controllers of an actual complete warframe is either tenno, or infestation. tenno were from the ten zero (as for the main character you play one of the ten zero), however it says in the orokin derlict fragment 

derelict fragment:

Even the most culturally and technologically advanced civilization in history could not contain the menace of the Infestation. After an unknown cataclysmic event propelled them from the Void, Orokin vessels were left adrift, becoming uninhabited and overgrown. The tireless force of probing infested tendrils penetrate and dislodge the once majestic and opulent halls of these Orokin vessels.

 

so we were in the void we werent in the void, we became tenno in the void they didnt become tenno in the void. im guessing that they would continue to produce tenno after the ten zero, and that somewhere along the way they developed the ability to shield the ships inhabitants from the void radiation and thus avoiding tenno-izing / killing / driving insane the people who would seek refuge there.

this to me implies that they would have known enough about the void at some point to determine who could and couldnt be made into a warframe and why. another thing is, based on the lore from the ordan karris storyline, they could very well create some sort of non infested technological imprint or conversion of consciousness (as done to ordan when he is converted by ballas into a cephalon). So, perhaps it is possible then, for a non child to be converted into a tenno, either by the same process or different. 

What am i getting at? That ballas who was already immortal but unable to control a warframe, could have known enough to tenno-ize himself, or to perhaps develop the technology far enough along that he could upload himself to the warframe after conversion to a cephalon. note how stalker doesnt really say much, has pretty one track mind, and refers to himself as the ghost of retribution. ghost is part of the definition of revenant as well. he also watches us from that 'dark place'.. i first thought he meant the void but then realized that ordis loses his memories to that dark pit.

also

• In Update 18, the Stalker's Excalibur body was replaced with Excalibur Umbra's. It's more noticeable on the chest, which has an extra plate in the middle, and the sides of his torso, which have an extended metallic part and a differently shaped light. He also has a loincloth.

when we find out what umbra is, we will know more about stalker

 

orokin fragment 

Fragment Lore

The highly revered Orokin civilization built sovereignty on a culture of art, technology and architecture. To prove oneself worthy of elevated social status, one must face Orokin trials in the golden and majestic Halls of Ascension. At one time a utopian society of omniscient leadership, the great Orokin Era ended in a divine realization of their own ignorance.

Ended in their own ignorance? of what they had created? the sentient? or do they refer to something else... perhaps the warframes are simply a vehicle for whatever resides in the void to act outside of its quantum prison.... :o

 

still thinking ballas might be stalker. ballas is an executor. the only one we really see more than once in the story. he is the judge and executioner, and now with the seven gone, the jury as well. he already has that personality of committing others to their death, sentencing others for their crimes. who better to feel betrayed? who is more of a father figure than the one who created the warframes. who more fitting to go insane than the uber patriot broken hearted red vial havin cephalon converting immortal executor?

 

vengeful revenant

revenant: 

noun

1.

a person who returns.

2.

a person who returns as a spirit after death; ghost.

returns as a spirit after death

blind justice : sounds like a judge

tranquil cleave : perhaps being at peace at the time of beheading your loved one (margulis)

decisive judgment: : again with the executorial implications

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ballas

after margulis's death ballas took over the research (creates or obtains/ takes over transference) then begins developing warframes: 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ballas

vauban prime and saryn prime trailer dialogue

 

• "Lust was my sin. But greed is the blight that weakens our steel. These industrialists gorged on the harvest of our long war. Their mind drones; Their mechanizations, toil in foundries remote. For what purpose? We must set watch upon them. Baiting our snares with the worms of profit.

Those kneeling at the altar of commerce will be returned.. to the Void.

 

 

• "Margulis, from your winter ashes, there has sprung a field of flowers. Conceived by me, germinated for deadly purpose. You used to dream of old Earth, didn't you? Bathed in gold and solemn blue. I intend to reclaim it now, from the spores and the ruin. It came to me like a proverb: fight poison with poison.

Cure this sick horde with the greatest of plagues. I will call her... Saryn."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by PookieNumnums

[Tesseract7777]

This is a thought to ponder that I had about the theory: The Stalker could be literally anyone, in the way that DE could choose to make up any new being they want behind the Stalker -- he doesn't have to be someone previously introduced who secretly has an alter ego as a shadowy assassin. 

However, if they were going to have a previously known character be the Stalker, then not only does a lot of circumstantial evidence point to Teshin, but there is really no one else it COULD be. Seriously, WF feels like a big universe, but there aren't that many named characters. No one else we already know of would make even a remote bit of sense. 

And it doesn't have to be that Teshin is pure evil. There is talk of the Stalker being driven mad by something he saw... perhaps when Teshin is in Stalker form, he isn't entirely sane, and there is some way we can "cure" him. Perhaps he is even somehow possessed on some level by the void or something. It would explain how he (the stalker, whether he is Teshin or not) can cancel out some of our powers. 

The good Teshin could be trying to train us us up both to learn our secrets to kill us easier, and to slowly brainwash as many Tenno as he can to his side, so he can build his own army of acolytes. Seriously, did anyone but me think it was strange the acolytes just seemed to appear out of nowhere? 

Where did the Stalker manage to meet them to convince them without the Tenno in question immediately trying to take his head off, for loot if nothing else? 

Unless... unless Teshin is the Stalker and talked to them as Teshin first. Possessed/driven mad by the void, he slowly seduces the most susceptible Tenno, and only reveals he is actually the Stalker while still in Teshin form, and when the particular Tenno is in far too deep -- after being taught to hate the Lotus and distrust her. When you think about it this makes sense. Teshin's dialogue has always been very subversive against Lotus, and very praising of the Orokin. He talks about teaching us, but it seems like he should hate us, because as far as I know, Teshin is very negative about our destruction of the Orokin. 

I feel like the acolytes are the real smoking gun here. If it wasn't Teshin/Stalker convincing them, then how the hell did the Stalker manage to seduce them to his side at all? I feel like that piece of the lore (how the acolytes truly happened) may be revealed in TWW and it may have a lot to do with Teshin. 

Even if Teshin is not the Stalker himself, I feel like it is extremely likely that he is at least partially sympathetic to the Stalker's cause, was likely from the same order of guardians (the lore seems to suggest this), and I think if he isn't the Stalker, he knew the person behind the Stalker, or already suspects, who they are. If they were of the same order of guardians they likely would have been quite familiar to each other. 

[Tesseract7777]

As for the Ballas theory... what? 

 

The Stalker is a low guardian. Ballas is one of the highest members of the Orokin elite. It is suggested by Hunhow that the Stalker may have been something similar to a Tenno when your out of the cryopod in the Second Dream. 

 

Ballas may still be around in some way... that would be interesting, but I don't see how the Stalker can be a low guardian and one of the highest Orokin elders at the same time. 

[PookieNumnums]

guardian was what he was. low was used to signify how far removed from the orokin hierarchy he really was. it doesnt say that he wore a warframe during the stalker codex. ordis had never seen someone so close to the orokin as he was when he tried to kill ballas.  thus, its likely that during that celebration the executors who were the closest to the orokin royalty we've seen thus far would have had a seat on the mezzanine to observe from..

for all we know Guardian is the category that includes executor and dax.

 

and i feel like you didnt even read the post. ballas is the only one with the position or demeanor to try and play judge jury and executioner

Edited August 13, 2016 by PookieNumnums

[Tesseract7777]

11 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

guardian was what he was. low was used to signify how far removed from the orokin hierarchy he really was. it doesnt say that he wore a warframe during the stalker codex. ordis had never seen someone so close to the orokin as he was when he tried to kill ballas.  thus, its likely that during that celebration the executors who were the closest to the orokin royalty we've seen thus far would have had a seat on the mezzanine to observe from..

 

and i feel like you didnt even read the post. ballas is the only one with the position or demeanor to try and play judge jury and executioner

 

I read your post from beginning to end. You are misremembering the Stalker codex entry, it says: "I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians."

Ballas was an executor, not a low guardian. He was one of the top executors. 

Some of the stuff in your post was interesting. It does nothing to explain how one of the chief Orokin Executors suddenly becomes a low guardian instead, from a completely different group/order within the Empire. 

And no, it would make no sense for him to have both titles. 

Why would Ballas, an Orokin Executor, be watching with "the rest of the low guardians"? Even if they were actually quite removed from the kings/queens, why would the highest executors suddenly be called by a different title? I see no explanation for this in your post. 

 

Edit: No, the Executors were NOT that far removed from the Orokin royalty or Orokin heirarchy. 

 

You mention Ordis, so you should know Ordis lore well, no? Then you would remember that Ballas seemed to be present at the event where Ordis human form met the Orokin royalty and started killing people. If Ballas were so far removed from their heirarchy that he was "a low guardian, watching from a distance" then why was he honored enough to be by the rulers sides during the Ordan Karis debacle? 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[ObviousLee]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

I read your post from beginning to end. You are misremembering the Stalker codex entry, it says: "I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians."

Ballas was an executor, not a low guardian. He was one of the top executors. 

Some of the stuff in your post was interesting. It does nothing to explain how one of the chief Orokin Executors suddenly becomes a low guardian instead, from a completely different group/order within the Empire. 

And no, it would make no sense for him to have both titles. 

Why would Ballas, an Orokin Executor, be watching with "the rest of the low guardians"? Even if they were actually quite removed from the kings/queens, why would the highest executors suddenly be called by a different title? I see no explanation for this in your post. 

 

Edit: No, the Executors were NOT that far removed from the Orokin royalty or Orokin heirarchy. 

 

You mention Ordis, so you should know Ordis lore well, no? Then you would remember that Ballas seemed to be present at the event where Ordis human form met the Orokin royalty and started killing people. If Ballas were so far removed from their heirarchy that he was "a low guardian, watching from a distance" then why was he honored enough to be by the rulers sides during the Ordan Karis debacle? 

don't forget, that ordis was created in a time where the tenno already existed. his sole purpose was to be a class of ship cephalon to be used by the tenno, with ballas being the one to make the introduction. the only thing these codices really do is flesh out why ordis is bonkers with blood lust, AND that a red vial was the key to orokin immortal. ballas may or may not have been aware of ordis's plan, but either way the only thing else it highlights is that he's prideful, and a bit of a control freak. as for the acolytes? they could be tenno that teshin has already trained in the conclave, or they could be the other guardians referred to in the stalker lore. 

[PookieNumnums]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

I read your post from beginning to end. You are misremembering the Stalker codex entry, it says: "I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians."

Ballas was an executor, not a low guardian. He was one of the top executors. 

Some of the stuff in your post was interesting. It does nothing to explain how one of the chief Orokin Executors suddenly becomes a low guardian instead, from a completely different group/order within the Empire. 

And no, it would make no sense for him to have both titles. 

Why would Ballas, an Orokin Executor, be watching with "the rest of the low guardians"? Even if they were actually quite removed from the kings/queens, why would the highest executors suddenly be called by a different title? I see no explanation for this in your post. 

 

Edit: No, the Executors were NOT that far removed from the Orokin royalty or Orokin heirarchy. 

 

You mention Ordis, so you should know Ordis lore well, no? Then you would remember that Ballas seemed to be present at the event where Ordis human form met the Orokin royalty and started killing people. If Ballas were so far removed from their heirarchy that he was "a low guardian, watching from a distance" then why was he honored enough to be by the rulers sides during the Ordan Karis debacle? 

firstly i will admit my post wasnt formatted very well so putting everything together may be rather complex and difficult, not because of your level of understanding which im not mentioning because i see no issues with it, but because of how poorly written my post was ... 

secondly, i did mention it, however i did lots of editing and it may or may not have been removed. the idea was that low has nothing to do with guardians other than as stated and you understood. the guardian part includes executors, dax, lorists (combat lorist), and whatever other protectors they may have had who were at that very moment Lower than the tenno. 

 

ballas is the only one who interacts with ordis during the fragment lore, ordis was likely grineer if you check that avatar, it also looks like hes holding a boltace behind him. 

 

ballas the executor, judge, now jury, and executioner is the only one with any persona relevant to what the stalker is trying to do. 

21 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

don't forget, that ordis was created in a time where the tenno already existed. his sole purpose was to be a class of ship cephalon to be used by the tenno, with ballas being the one to make the introduction. the only thing these codices really do is flesh out why ordis is bonkers with blood lust, AND that a red vial was the key to orokin immortal. ballas may or may not have been aware of ordis's plan, but either way the only thing else it highlights is that he's prideful, and a bit of a control freak. as for the acolytes? they could be tenno that teshin has already trained in the conclave, or they could be the other guardians referred to in the stalker lore. 

as for this, 

 

ballas intended on turning ordis into a cephalon the entire time. at no point was the red vial swapped out or changed. therefor, the red vial he sees before he attacks, was already meant to turn him (ordan) into cephalon (ordis). he is already talking about 'why would i want forever'.. immortality was their intent. the irony that he turned on them before they could REK him with the cephalon potion is why they were all laughing, and that he thought they could be killed in any mortal sense.

orokin were a civilization and empire and people, but also a family of royalty, and likely a term used to suggest a certain class. where the word is used and who its used by determines its meaning, not in denotation but connotation. as is with the ordis lore, answers change depending on the question. questions change depending on who asks or w/e.. 

nothing implies that ordan karris was before the same orokin hierarchy that was slaughtered by the tenno. for all we know it was only the executors. another thing that we dont know for sure is that when we slaughtered the orokin they were really killed..

i also dont see how we can ignore the personality and occupational similarities betewen ballas and the stalker.

 

im calling it now that ballas the executor who is acting judge jury and executioner, creator of our warframes, turned himself into a cephalon after the orokin massacre and installed the new Ballas the Cephalon DLC into excal prime, and is seeking revenge on us for (by existing) being the sole reason his lover (margulis) was sentenced to death (likely by his sword), and he (now a shadow of his former self, a ghost, vengeful revenant) seeks to prosecute us for our current misdeeds. 

one thing id like to point out is that stalker's codex doesnt refer to him as being in a warframe at that point. and also that the cephalon fragments specifically say that only tenno can control warframes, so unless teshin is a tenno which he is not, he cannot be stalker.  ballas is creating warframes and working with them on the moon. ballas would know how to control a warframe before teshin would. ballas would also have access to the technology to do it. teshin likely would not. stalkers codex says im the ghost of retribution. revenant means ghost or spirit. to me that is implying stalker has no operator. and likely the only way it could not have an operator and still have all those character traits is if the frame is doing it on its own, which i can only see as being possible by some sort of full transference, and if a cephalon can be uploaded to a ship, why not a warframe?

since teshin isnt a tenno or an uploadable cephalon, im not sure he could pilot stalker.

[ObviousLee]

12 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

firstly i will admit my post wasnt formatted very well so putting everything together may be rather complex and difficult, not because of your level of understanding which im not mentioning because i see no issues with it, but because of how poorly written my post was ... 

secondly, i did mention it, however i did lots of editing and it may or may not have been removed. the idea was that low has nothing to do with guardians other than as stated and you understood. the guardian part includes executors, dax, lorists (combat lorist), and whatever other protectors they may have had who were at that very moment Lower than the tenno. 

 

ballas is the only one who interacts with ordis during the fragment lore, ordis was likely grineer if you check that avatar, it also looks like hes holding a boltace behind him. 

 

ballas the executor, judge, now jury, and executioner is the only one with any persona relevant to what the stalker is trying to do. 

as for this, 

 

ballas intended on turning ordis into a cephalon the entire time. at no point was the red vial swapped out or changed. therefor, the red vial he sees before he attacks, was already meant to turn him (ordan) into cephalon (ordis). he is already talking about 'why would i want forever'.. immortality was their intent. the irony that he turned on them before they could REK him with the cephalon potion is why they were all laughing, and that he thought they could be killed in any mortal sense.

orokin were a civilization and empire and people, but also a family of royalty, and likely a term used to suggest a certain class. where the word is used and who its used by determines its meaning, not in denotation but connotation. as is with the ordis lore, answers change depending on the question. questions change depending on who asks or w/e.. 

nothing implies that ordan karris was before the same orokin hierarchy that was slaughtered by the tenno. for all we know it was only the executors. another thing that we dont know for sure is that when we slaughtered the orokin they were really killed..

i also dont see how we can ignore the personality and occupational similarities betewen ballas and the stalker.

 

im calling it now that ballas the executor who is acting judge jury and executioner, creator of our warframes, turned himself into a cephalon after the orokin massacre and installed the new Ballas the Cephalon DLC into excal prime, and is seeking revenge on us for (by existing) being the sole reason his lover (margulis) was sentenced to death (likely by his sword), and he (now a shadow of his former self, a ghost, vengeful revenant) seeks to prosecute us for our current misdeeds. 

one thing id like to point out is that stalker's codex doesnt refer to him as being in a warframe at that point. and also that the cephalon fragments specifically say that only tenno can control warframes, so unless teshin is a tenno which he is not, he cannot be stalker.  ballas is creating warframes and working with them on the moon. ballas would know how to control a warframe before teshin would. ballas would also have access to the technology to do it. teshin likely would not. stalkers codex says im the ghost of retribution. revenant means ghost or spirit. to me that is implying stalker has no operator. and likely the only way it could not have an operator and still have all those character traits is if the frame is doing it on its own, which i can only see as being possible by some sort of full transference, and if a cephalon can be uploaded to a ship, why not a warframe?

since teshin isnt a tenno or an uploadable cephalon, im not sure he could pilot stalker.

because as you yourself said, only a tenno can operate a warframe. tenno are living beings corrupted by void energy. they become a living source for it. we don't know if ordan's brain is in the ship itself, or if it was scanned and massed produced, or if his memory was copied and placed into surrogate brains for each orbiter. thing is, there's no lore to hint at, suggest, or dictate that a cephalon is capable of operating a warframe. also, as we have no idea where ballas is, or if he is even still alive. all we do know is that only a tenno can operate a warframe. is it nor possible that mayhaps guardians were subjects who failed to fully integrate the void corruption for mainstream deployment? I think it is. However, again, nothing to hint at or suggest, considering the tenno themselves were labled as failures and rejects. however it is reasonable to surmise that some subjects did not successfully incorporate void abilities. but that, is just an assumption.

 

 

edit: stalker lore doesn't say he's in a warframe? thats true. but it also doesn't say that he's not in one either.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ObviousLee

[Stonehenge]

7 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

edit: stalker lore doesn't say he's in a warframe? thats true. but it also doesn't say that he's not in one either.

AHah. The hieroglyphs on the parymids didnt say they were built by aliens ? That's true. But they also didnt say that they were not.

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, Stonehenge said:

AHah. The hieroglyphs on the parymids didnt say they were built by aliens ? That's true. But they also didnt say that they were not.

1) It's not a pyramid

2) They are aren't hieroglyphs

3) They aren't even stalker type decorations, they were just red.

[Stonehenge]

Yeah dude i got this, but you know i wasn't refering to this, don't you ? (mmh yeah of course you do, stupid of me.)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Stonehenge

[starsrift]

Hate to go meta, but collapsing the story in this sort of convoluted fashion makes little sense from a structural standpoint. What makes more sense is Teshin having mixed loyalties (perhaps a family that's being leaned on?) and an introduction of a new nemesis.

Edited August 13, 2016 by starsrift