The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[ZeroSample]

 Hate the new Vacuum range.

How do you guys feel about it?

[Fylas]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

My Helios that scans and now has vacuum disagrees with you.

And he chuckles a bit at you as well.

helios forevur /o/ helios + atlas ore gaze + heliocor kill = 3 scans :D :D :D :D

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

I will bet you 3000 platinum right here, right now, that in 3 weeks, no one will care. And there will be like one thread asking for vacuum bumps with maybe 10 upvotes. This is all so familiar. Our attention span as a community is almost non-existent.

Be carefull with those 3k plat, becaouse new resource with 6 hr half life can easily apear and u will need 1k for research

[Torhque]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

It did lol i guess the Megathread has the same range as the new vacuum passive.

-snip-

Dayum. Shots fired

[Chipputer]

Again, 12m in a hallway vs 6m in an open area.

I could prove my point like this, too.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

7 minutes ago, Brian_Paone said:

I think it's someone from DE to come down from On High and explain, fully, why the change was made, what will be looked at, and if/when one can expect adjustments. All this "keeping the userbase in the dark" stuff is doing is fanning the flames of speculation.

 

That almost never has a good outcome on the internet.

Gotta come prepared lol

 

Getting hot around here..... and me without marshmallows....

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[Shockwave-]

42 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I'll take that bet.

There a quite a few people here that will hold a grudge for years.

BUt they wills top posting once DE gives us the final "Screw you" and says they aren't' changing it back. They will be mad, they won't forget about it but they won't keep posting about it. then DE will be convinced that people are ok with it, kinda like the paid arcwing slot change with no warning that people are still miffed about.

[Otakuwolf]

DE should hire Quiette-Shy for balancing this game, at least her vid about the vaccum says exactly what it should be done: leave it as it was before and give it passive to all warframes, so i don't need a bandaid companion and bring around whichever i want, be it a sentinel, a dog, or a cat.

After all this is not a game about picking up loot (well, it's not the main purpouse at least) but about killing stuff space ninja (kinda) style.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Otakuwolf

[ZeroSample]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Again, 12m in a hallway vs 6m in an open area.

I could prove my point like this, too.

Just to clarify, i'm not the creator of the vid.

I do whole-heartedly agree with the point made, though.

[RavenCorella]

I think she'd volunteer.

In all seriousness though, I am very unhappy with this seeing as I was a carrier person. They should indeed it at 12 for Carrier and 5 for everything else. 

[Brian_Paone]

1 minute ago, Otakuwolf said:

DE should hire Quiette-Shy for balancing this game, at least her vid about the vaccum says exactly what it should be done: leave it as it was before and give it passive to all warframes, so i don't need a bandaid companion and bring around whichever i want, be it a sentinel, a dog, or a cat.

After all this is not a game about picking up loot (well, it's not the main purpouse at least) but about killing stuff space ninja (kinda) style.

This is another reason why I believe DE should come on down and talk to us about it. We don't even know if that would work, or how well.

 

I mean, sure, from the ol' computer chair, it SEEMS like it might work, but we're talking about giving abilities to objects that didn't have those abilities before. I'm almost positive warframes and sentinels have quite different code. How would a passive vacuum for warframes affect things? Has it been tested? If so, what were the results? If not, why?

 

These are questions we can't answer as players, no matter how large the thread or how wild the speculation. But the answers would almost certainly help us understand this.

[ZeroSample]

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Again, 12m in a hallway vs 6m in an open area.

I could prove my point like this, too.

Also, you don't seem to realize how big of a difference 6m compared to 12m actually is.

to quote Aurea_Hiigara's post in another thread:

"1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 12 x 12 x 12 = 7219,92096 cubic meters on Carrier before the change to Vacuum.

1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 6 x 6 x 6 = 902,49012 cubic meters on all sentinels after the change to Vacuum.

I'm gonna round them off for this next part.

The new area of effect is 12% of what we used to have. It hasn't been cut in half. It hasn't been cut in quarters. It has been reduced HALF OF HALF OF HALF. One eighth of what it used to be."

[Xzorn]

13 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I mean, most people who post on the forums are passionate about the game to the point that no matter what DE does at this point, they will come back to sample new content. Let's not delude ourselves here, You're gonna play TWW when it comes out. Chances are any of the players who were gonna quit already did so. Also, TWW (in my mind anyways) is a much better reason to quit, as it is an overall larger and more concerning issue than a vacuum range nerf. (once again, my opinion)

 

The War Within is just a Content update.

I see no reason to get hyped over it. I also believe DE has a tendency to make something sound way more amazing than it is. Which isn't a bad thing, you have to hype people for content. But after the last time I got hyped  (Solar Rails) I quit playing I was so disappointed and near disgusted by the mislead claims associated with that update.

I came back this round with the mind set to not get hyped about anything and just enjoy content as it comes.

Problem is, much of the content they add is diluted in value because of 3 year long problems they've yet to fix.

Take Focus for example. Everyone knows Madurai's Active ability is garbage. Why? Because of the Damage system and scaling problems. The Silver Grove added new Auras and ways to farm them. That's cool, but unfortunately Corrosive Projection is the crutch of scaling in this game and there's no reason to use those Auras over it. Esp since they've mistakenly added dangerous armored Bursa to Corpus factions. I run CP on 3/4 of the game's factions. That's not right.

I'd much rather see:  U20 Core Mechanics Within.

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, ZeroSample said:

Also, you don't seem to realize how big of a difference 6m compared to 12m actually is.

to quote Aurea_Hiigara's post in another thread:

"1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 12 x 12 x 12 = 7219,92096 cubic meters on Carrier before the change to Vacuum.

1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 6 x 6 x 6 = 902,49012 cubic meters on all sentinels after the change to Vacuum.

I'm gonna round them off for this next part.

The new area of effect is 12% of what we used to have. It hasn't been cut in half. It hasn't been cut in quarters. It has been reduced HALF OF HALF OF HALF. One eighth of what it used to be."

I'm well aware. Stop using volume to obfuscate how much the range has changed. You're not mesmerizing me by saying that it's technically some high percentage decrease in volume. Vacuum doesn't work via volume.

[notlamprey]

3 minutes ago, Brian_Paone said:

This is another reason why I believe DE should come on down and talk to us about it. We don't even know if that would work, or how well.

 

I mean, sure, from the ol' computer chair, it SEEMS like it might work, but we're talking about giving abilities to objects that didn't have those abilities before. I'm almost positive warframes and sentinels have quite different code. How would a passive vacuum for warframes affect things? Has it been tested? If so, what were the results? If not, why?

 

These are questions we can't answer as players, no matter how large the thread or how wild the speculation. But the answers would almost certainly help us understand this.

Even if they fear engaging with an angry community at close range, it's absolutely the smart move in the long run.

When you don't put your voice out here, you forfeit your ability to influence the conversation. Just look at what happened to a certain recent disappointing game release.

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

That is what I was saying all the time

T H A N K   Y O U 

[notlamprey]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I'm well aware. Stop using volume to obfuscate how much the range has changed. You're not mesmerizing me by saying that it's technically some high percentage decrease in volume. Vacuum doesn't work via volume.

I eagerly await your explanation of how it actually works.

Bring light into the darkness that is our backward minds!

[Imaru]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

I'm well aware. Stop using volume to obfuscate how much the range has changed. You're not mesmerizing me by saying that it's technically some high percentage decrease in volume. Vacuum doesn't work via volume.

Actually it technically does work by volume, but most of the time there are only items to pick up on a plane at your feet, so it effectively works by area. With that said, if you were in a place with loot above you within the range it would pull it toward you. 

[KaizergidorahXi]

I have been using Carrier for almost a year, for Vacuum. And yet I STILL do not understand how people can be THIS outraged about it. You need to walk a few more feet to gather resources. THAT'S IT. Now, I understand when people complain about the other sentinels not being as good defensively as carrier, because it's true. But come on, people. It's a SMALL nerf for Carrier, and a HUGE buff for all the other sentinels. The only reasonable way I can see people being this mad is if they just sit in one place for the entire mission and expect all the loot to be sucked towards them.

Plus when you get close to a huge loot pile it all gets sucked up at once, which is super satisfying.

[Skaleek]

9 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

The War Within is just a Content update.

I see no reason to get hyped over it. I also believe DE has a tendency to make something sound way more amazing than it is. Which isn't a bad thing, you have to hype people for content. But after the last time I got hyped  (Solar Rails) I quit playing I was so disappointed and near disgusted by the mislead claims associated with that update.

I came back this round with the mind set to not get hyped about anything and just enjoy content as it comes.

Problem is, much of the content they add is diluted in value because of 3 year long problems they've yet to fix.

Take Focus for example. Everyone knows Madurai's Active ability is garbage. Why? Because of the Damage system and scaling problems. The Silver Grove added new Auras and ways to farm them. That's cool, but unfortunately Corrosive Projection is the crutch of scaling in this game and there's no reason to use those Auras over it. Esp since they've mistakenly added dangerous armored Bursa to Corpus factions. I run CP on 3/4 of the game's factions. That's not right.

I'd much rather see:  U20 Core Mechanics Within.

Yeah but a content update thats been teased and delayed like Mr burns dangling a dollar bill attached to a fish line from his car. Anyways, i dont disagree with you, I'd love to see them come back and work on core mechanics. Focus is barely a system and still has a little heart on the icon as if begging us to be merciful as to how incomplete and garbage it is. All these things you're saying right now have been repeated ad nauseum by vets on the forums. Eventually things will change or game will die, just enjoy while you can, unfortunately theres not much else to be done besides the true endgame, foruming.

DE's response: more fashionfraaaaaaaaaaaaame

Edited October 6, 2016 by Skaleek

[OniDax]

1 minute ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

I have been using Carrier for almost a year, for Vacuum. And yet I STILL do not understand how people can be THIS outraged about it. You need to walk a few more feet to gather resources. THAT'S IT. Now, I understand when people complain about the other sentinels not being as good defensively as carrier, because it's true. But come on, people. It's a SMALL nerf for Carrier, and a HUGE buff for all the other sentinels. The only reasonable way I can see people being this mad is if they just sit in one place for the entire mission and expect all the loot to be sucked towards them.

Plus when you get close to a huge loot pile it all gets sucked up at once, which is super satisfying.

It's not just that you need to walk some more feet. It was also useful for getting drops that would be unobtainable because they'd be inside walls or outside the map. Now, you can't get those items at all. Not only that, but DE provided no information whatsoever for why they decided to nerf Carrier. Not only that, but up until Steve's post, they were hiding the fact that they were planning on nerfing Carrier (although, everyone who knew DE's history knew this was coming), and even after Steve's post and after the update dropped, DE still refuses to call it what it is, which is a nerf. And yes, it is a nerf. And it's not a small nerf either. When the community asked for universal vacuum, they weren't asking for a nerf to vacuum. So it's almost spiteful what DE has done here, and it makes it seem all the more spiteful  and ingenuous when DE pretends like this is exactly what the community asked for, when it wasn't.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AntoineFlemming

[Shockwave-]

43 minutes ago, DoctorBagPhD said:

Been having a think about Warframe and how I feel about it. I think I'm done for a while, if not for good. When a new change comes in I'm usually one for sitting back and seeing how it'll play out, pointing out any flaws I feel are there in (what I hope is) a calm and rational way, or just getting stuck in to see how they change Warframe and my play style.

Lately, though, it honestly feels as though DE is hell bent on making Warframe less about fast-paced action, and more about the 'dreaded grind'. I can't say for sure when I started to feel this way, but if I had to make a guess I'd say it's been around since we had the utter 'joy' that were Acolyte mod drops. I rarely use carrier these days, but to see such a huge nerf to those that did, and such blatant defending of the decision by people who "[didn't] even use carrier anyway" and can't see what all the fuss is about, it's pretty sad. No developer should be above criticism and when over 80% of players feel that a certain feature is necessary to play the game, I can't fathom why gimping it is considered a good idea by anyone.

To those that have said this is 'the death of Warframe', though admittedly I've only seen people mocking the notion of that, I'll say that I'd have to disagree. I highly doubt there will be one big change that causes players to leave in their droves (and if there is/was, I'm sure DE would reverse it very quickly). No. But, there's a solid chance this is one of the numerous small changes that impact gameplay just enough to gradually turn players off. It won't be just one thing, but a string of poor decisions here and there that do eventually kill the game, and I hope that isn't the case for a long while. For me, though, I'm out. Removing a feature a lot of players found vital and seemingly ignoring a lot of requests to repair it isn't a good idea, but to me it's not a complete deal breaker. Introducing mechanics that break the flow of the game isn't a deal breaker to me either, so long as they're reasonable and justified (and so far, seem to be teetering on the edge of reasonable). What is, however, is seeing a significant portion of the active community mocking those that aren't happy with this change. It's not really a community I want to be a part of any more. Take care, Tenno. I'm sure I'll take a peek at the game next year when TWW finally drops.

I'm with you. I have played non stop for the last year, lots of hours. My wife plays my brother players, my neices play. We play together all the time and our group of four almost quit with SOTR and the void-relic change that was a huge hit to fun in this game. We hung around to see what would change if anything, to see if endless came back but honestly with this change we're starting not to care. Not only because vacuum is just needed in this game to compensate for the whole meta concept of dropped loot from kills but from the tone deafness of DE about these things. The change without explanation of why, the entire process of this, SOTR, paid arcwing slots, syndicate mission reward nerfs. and all wtih no statement to the players about why these changes had to be made (and no warning in some cases).

The entire Dev - Player relationship seems to have gone south. With this Vacuum nerf I'm now literally afraid to suggest changes to DE for fear of what they might figure they can nerf while making the change. It seems that every change comes with a hidden nerf worked into it and the direction of the game is not a good one. Hiding nerfs shouldn't be the status quo. If players are picking up too much loot then say so. If they are then nerf the drops, not the pickup method, but be upfront about. That's the part I find the most insidious. The game is starting to leave a bad taste. My group is desperately looking for other 3-4 player games to delv into and when we find one WF will go on the shelf.

 

[ZectorV1]

Vacuum isn't a crutch or "lazy" thing you should insult people for using. It's absolutely ridiculous that it even has to have a name and isn't just a feature of the game. Individual pickups for thousands of pickups is just plain awful game design. Fix drops, or make the vacuum big enough to make everyone happy with the drops. If you do that, people actually will diversify in what companions they chose.                                                                                                      And have a reason to use cats and dogs.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Zectorcop

[Jicematoro]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Again, 12m in a hallway vs 6m in an open area.

I could prove my point like this, too.

Do notice, the Rhino missed items on his way flying and had to go back for them.

He flew right above them, the Vacuum's Range missed them, so he had stop his pacing/momentum, turn around, and go back to grab the loot.

Being in a Hallway or an Open field means absolutely nothing here, he wouldn't have missed them with the old Vacuum...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Jicematoro

[yingji]

6m vacuum radius is super fun and not at all like a punishment litter collection simulator.