(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 5 hours ago, Nazrethim said: The purpose of a rework is to solve the issues with a given warframe, sentinel or weapon without it being a straight buff or a straight nerf. I was pointing out that this particular rework is a convoluted nerf to BS and doesn't really solve ANY of the issues the frame has in the first place, nor alters the build meta, and neither adresses Conclave balancing. So it's either very incomplete or very bad, and since the author isn't available to work on it then it's more inclined to the latter. I can live with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said: I can live with that Such dedication, I like that. You should work on this suggestion, add your touch, make it good. It's not impossible. Just make sure it doesn't require Primed or Corrupted mods, have a clear idea how it would work in Conclave and that it can solve most (all if possible) issues with Ash. Edited October 7, 2016 by Nazrethim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) triple post. Edited October 7, 2016 by Nazrethim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) ... Edited October 7, 2016 by Nazrethim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Nazrethim said: Such dedication, I like that. You should work on this suggestion, add your touch, make it good. It's not impossible. Just make sure it doesn't require Primed or Corrupted mods, have a clear idea how it would work in Conclave and that it can solve most (all if possible) issues with Ash. Ill give it some thought and come back..But yours is vary detailed. Hope they use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) From Dev Stream #81: "There has been a lot of discussion surrounding this rework, but no real answers. Well, Ash fans, we have some info for you: In order to make Bladestorm more interactive, but keep the same feel behind the animation, we’re planning on making the following changes: You will now Mark the enemies that will be attacked. Ash will attack each Marked enemy only once, but multitaged enemies will also be taken care of by your shadows. Holding 4 will allow you to Mark enemies, and energy will be consumed for each Mark (instead of a toggled drain). A damage buff might also be included to offset the LOS nerf." First cast, you're scanning, 2nd cast you activate the ability. It's not comfortable to hold abilities, just a QoL :). Edited October 8, 2016 by Saske92 edit megathread tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks013 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 i actualy would be more happy with this idea yeah because you could actualy use your other ability at the same time with a controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Yeah, I dislike holding abilities while moving, on the other hand, not being able to hold means you can't like, sweep around to mark multiple enemies. Perhaps in addition to this change, baseline Shuriken should auto-mark all enemies hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 The Ash Rework on the Devstream today seems like an incredible huge nerf, in fact it seems like it will make ash 100% useless as far as BS is concerned. Given the very easy enemies in the game, how can any player mark anything with bladestorm before it is killed? Stopping to mark things mid battle is going to a complete break from how WF and BS work now. Won't you stop, mark 1 mark 2 (1 dies) mark 3 (2 dies) Mark 4 (3 dies) etc? If you have a 4 man team how on earth will you ever use BS on more than 1 guy? Ever?If you try you risk losing the BS target you already marked? So your 4 will be a kill on one target only and take time to mark, then execute BS, teleport to them, then teleport back. So BS will kill much slower than say, a modded lato, AND it will include a slightly disorienting teleport. Certainly slower than any weapon you have in your hand. I hope I'm wrong but first impressions are extremely poor. I'd like to see them demo a 4 player squad using BS to show us how that will work with 4 players in the same room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks013 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 i would be happy with it if the targetting is actualy no range limit. I wonder if you can run a whole mission stealth and mark almost all mobs you see then at the end blade storm and break the stealth multiplyer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsik-kun Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Why would you Blade Storm something that can be killed with a modded Lato? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiichibukai Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, Epsik-kun said: Why would you Blade Storm something that can be killed with a modded Lato? Not the point of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Epsik-kun said: Why would you Blade Storm something that can be killed with a modded Lato? THe comment is really that a modded lato can kill one guy anywhere in the star map. If BS can only be used to kill one enemy then it is useless because your weapon would do better. BS was useful because you targeted one guy and killed a bunch you may or may not have seen. If you have to mark each one, you could shoot each one is the thing. If you mark more than one your teammates will kill the ones you marked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrjo Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, trunks013 said: i would be happy with it if the targetting is actualy no range limit. I wonder if you can run a whole mission stealth and mark almost all mobs you see then at the end blade storm and break the stealth multiplyer ? Constant energy drain won't let you do such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsik-kun Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, Shockwave- said: THe comment is really that a modded lato can kill one guy anywhere in the star map. If BS can only be used to kill one enemy then it is useless because your weapon would do better. BS was useful because you targeted one guy and killed a bunch you may or may not have seen. If you have to mark each one, you could shoot each one is the thing. If you mark more than one your teammates will kill the ones you marked.... Then shouldn't you just use Blade Storm for the enemies that won't be killed so fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks013 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, Arrjo said: Constant energy drain won't let you do such thing. I tought it was energy drain on target acquire my bad ^.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, Shockwave- said: THe comment is really that a modded lato can kill one guy anywhere in the star map. If BS can only be used to kill one enemy then it is useless I'm not sure you even watched the stream. You can mark and kill multiple enemies per cast. 11 minutes ago, Shockwave- said: in fact it seems like it will make ash 100% useless as far as BS is concerned. Given the very easy enemies in the game, how can any player mark anything with bladestorm before it is killed? I get the impression that you only play at medium levels. This is a problem with anything at low levels, but BS is kind of a high-level skill. We don't know how strong it will be, so there's no reason to be dramatic and freak out over a "huge nerf." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said: Why would you Blade Storm something that can be killed with a modded Lato? yeh, why would you spam that sh1t on a thing that poses no threat, also, aim faster than your teammates or target another group of enemies, finally a little bit of hands to put in bladestorm Edited October 7, 2016 by rockscl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, Gelkor said: Yeah, I dislike holding abilities while moving, on the other hand, not being able to hold means you can't like, sweep around to mark multiple enemies. Perhaps in addition to this change, baseline Shuriken should auto-mark all enemies hit? why not? During the first activatoin, you can sweep as many enemies as possible. Look left, look right, look up down etc... Then when you're done marking just activate the ability a 2nd time to now perform the assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Just now, TaylorsContraction said: why not? During the first activatoin, you can sweep as many enemies as possible. Look left, look right, look up down etc... Then when you're done marking just activate the ability a 2nd time to now perform the assassination. Ah, I see what you mean, I was thinking of a snapshot on the first click and the fire on the second, but yeah a toggle to scan for targets and a toggle off to cast makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShiftZero Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Heyyy, these more recent comments are a lot more positive and/or constructive than I expected! I'd love to see some sort of rework to Ash myself. Our current Bladestorm requires a staggering bare minimum of interaction. First, I want to say that of everything you suggest, one thing that stuck out to me as particularly unlikely to get implemented was the shadow clones scaling off of the mob levels you're facing. Not that I have a quarrel with that mechanic myself, it just doesn't hit me as something DE would do for this. However, some form of scaling would be advantageous - perhaps something reminiscent of Day Form Equinox's Maim, where what you get out is affected by what you put in, damage-wise? Other than that, the idea sounds pretty workable, and fun to boot. I especially like the inclusion for prioritizing targets. That's something that I think a lot of people tend to neglect in general, especially when abilities provide no means to do it and perhaps even encourage the opposite. All in all, I'm for some changes to Ash. Your idea would be a lot more entertaining - (or at the very least just bring back the chat window during Bladestorm, even that would be a huge improvement on *press 4, stare at the screen*.) . Edit: my post was moved to this thread by a mod and was actually in response to a different thread proposing very similar ideas for a Bladestorm rework, which was locked earlier. Sorry, if any of it doesn't make sense, that's why! If anyone is curious to see those original suggestions, search up "blade storm as a smoke ninja main_antagonist". Doesn't much matter now, but figured I'd throw the shout out in anyway. :p Edited October 8, 2016 by RedShiftZero Explanation for any confusion about the content of my original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 20 minutes ago, Azrael said: I'm not sure you even watched the stream. You can mark and kill multiple enemies per cast. (Snip) No. You can't. They will all be dead by the time you finish marking. Or otherwise under CC lockdown. Either way, it's too slow for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks013 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 29 minutes ago, Arrjo said: Constant energy drain won't let you do such thing. I just rewatched it and i dont see the part where they said its constant energy drain can you point it out for me please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzkyl Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said: No. You can't. They will all be dead by the time you finish marking. Or otherwise under CC lockdown. Either way, it's too slow for this game. And you get refunded the energy spent marking them. Even if "marking" them is slow there is little downside to do it as even if you target dies you lose no energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Marking takes too much time. And it's too hard to do with a controller. This rework makes his Ultimate unplayable in any real squad, and means dying while trying to mark solo. Please consider making BS a deadly but costly per strike stance instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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