[The Index] General Feedback

[sulusdacor]

just played it a bit. seemed okay so far. for the endurance runs the enemy scaling felt a bit broken like every time we have some endless scaling stuff. so nothing new here.

the nullifier mask enemys need some range indicator, but thats already an issue in the normal corpus missions.

i would love to have some sort of "who is in my team" indication. the corpus enemys are so diferently colored then most warfrems and shaped,that this is no issue in these arenas. but the corpus ones have very full colors and are more human/warframe like. so i feel like a visual indicator might be good. or maybe i'm just getting old^^. i know the phantom/copied warframe enemys should be sneaky, so would be fine if they are still flaged as friendly to backstab you. but for the others it would be nice.

 

my personal main problem is the "support" egotistic playstyle the changes lately implemented into the game. the reactant on fissure is such a thing where you as a player have to complete your thing. in this event it is the same thing. you as a player have to complete your thing. pick up your points, turn them in. it doesn't not matter what the team does. in fact your team usally is your enemy, since your points matter and they can them pick up too. so yeah....

dont know why this game mechanic is pushed so much. but if not changed and more of this kind is added it will change the community (to the worse in my opinion). a big part of why i enjoyed the game so much and come back to it, is that the community is super friendly. if you ask nicely players will answer even your stupid questions as a new player. they will help you in recruitment (at least before this chat was dead). so this is a hughe bonus for a game if someone is new and starting out. yes there are some unfriendly players around,but thats every where. overall the warframe community is super friendly (my impression at least).

the overall gameplay of warframe was teambased (sadly it isn't anymore with the direction its taking, maybe to negative here^^). you work with your team. you complete the mission as a team. you contribute to the team's goal to finish it. there is no way in the core game or mission mechanic, where you can work against your team mates. yes you can play pvp but that's a whole other thing. and yes you can use limbo or other frames to anoy people, but thats not a mechanic in the mission goal progression. you can do that anywhere. these newly added secound objectives are okay, but they are solo objectives for the player. they are a solid part of the mission. you need to complete them to win so to speak. and they are solo objectives, which reward working against players in your own team. if you write it out like that,did this not sound wrong somewhere? if you want to make a workagainst others please flag it as pvp or release a new pvp mode or something. if you add things to support the "i'm working only alone, screw the rest of my team" playstyle. you must expect that your playerbase and the communitys overall mindset will change. so please think about that part if you add new things to the game.

thx for reading, fight on tenno =)

[-Conquest-]

it would be awsome if Pain Threshold would "remove" or shorten the stagger when you recieve at lot of damage while being at 2hp in Quick Thinking....

Edited October 25, 2016 by -Conquest-

[mrrobotto67]

My only issue is the constant depleating of the health bar, i think that feature should be removed (but i can understand if it is not removed).

And the change i would suggest is that every oponent on that game mode could be random (meaning you could have the Raptor with the dude that uses Opticor with the Hyena variant and one of the red suited people).

Other than that is a good game mode to get credits and take advantage of this double credit boosters we get from time to time.

 

[psyclum]

this event clearly illustrates what is wrong with warframe as a whole...

it's like DE built a nuclear sub but was too lazy to write ANY instruction manuals.

here... have the most powerful war machine ever built by man, but good luck figuring it out w/o destroying the world 1st.

this is why people only do things like akkad or berehyna... because there are no "hidden rules" that says your mag bubble or only last 1.5 seconds or your limbo banish only last 0.5 second...

it's the entire reason why this game isn't more popular considering it's design and F2P model... it's because the people RECOMMENDING the game don't know enough about the game to stick their neck out to recommend it...

[N7-Justicar]

The worst event so far that introduced to the game unless you play solo..

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Overall an enjoyable distraction from the mass murdering the rest of the game encourages you to do, but there's three things I want to point out that dampened my overall positive impression of it:

Endurance damage scaling. As with other high level missions in normal gameplay, there are a number of enemy attacks that get virtually drowned out in the heat of the battle, virtually becoming invisible/inaudible to the player and making it impossible to reliably dodge them. That nuisance becomes a real issue if those invisible attacks can one-shot you and cause a high amount of frustration the player can't really do anything against. With the Index roster in particular, it's Auditor's rockets, Sol's attack and M-Wam's pull. In normal game, Bombard rockets, Napalm projectiles and a few other types of attacks are equally frustrating to deal with on high levels.

Then there's the indirect competition for points, causing a toxic PvP atmosphere to build in the team as selfish players steal them from others, preventing them from scoring.

The last point is minor but falls in line with the feeling I had playing the Index, which was the game mode trying to sneakily acclimatize the players to killing other players, something I hope the developers still want to firmly keep out of PvE. The particular event I'm talking about is that whenever you kill a mimic Corpus champion that has taken the form of another player, the kill log displays the name of the mimic'ed player as being killed instead of the actual Corpus champion. I hope to see the kill log to show the original name of the AI in the future instead of the player they mimic'ed when they're killed.

[_BlueShade_]

The game mode itself is very fun but there are many players who are hoarding points just to troll others or do it out of just plain greed. People stealing kill rewards like crazy and then laughing when the other players can't even get their 10 points cause someone has 30+ points while we have just a few. I even asked if we could kindly share once everyone has their required points and was told no. We need a way to control point stealing or it's solo for me too. So frustrated..... ?

[MobyTheDuck]

Good batch of changes/fixes, but a lot of problems still remain:

The dificulty varies way too much between enemy teams.
The robotic team is still the hardest, since they can still spam AoE instakill attacks forever and ever.
Mod drop chance is still low as the lowest circle of your religion's hell.
The mods are still terrible and wont be used to any build other than 'nonsrs' builds, a straight elemental mods, another precept and any other exilus will always replace any of these mods.
Making the enemies scale by kills rather than points makes the game stall even faster, they  already start level 70 and scale ridiculously from there after a few kills, you cant even get 25 points before they get almost invincible due shields + armor, only rewarding cheese strats.

[IggySnow]

I think the mod drop chance should be bumped up a bit considering this isnt a game mode where you are slaughtering 100 enemies a second. I was playing with a friend and doing 7-10 min runs and getting 1-2 mods per run, if we were lucky.

[DarkOvion]

1 hour ago, HerpDerpy said:

I think the mod drop chance should be bumped up a bit considering this isnt a game mode where you are slaughtering 100 enemies a second. I was playing with a friend and doing 7-10 min runs and getting 1-2 mods per run, if we were lucky.

On the one hand, 7-10min seems long,

On the other, I'd be fine with 1-2 mods per run if they weren't always Medi-Pet Kit or Pain Threshhold.

[IggySnow]

15 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

On the one hand, 7-10min seems long,

On the other, I'd be fine with 1-2 mods per run if they weren't always Medi-Pet Kit or Pain Threshhold.

exactly this.

[ExhaustedDog]

It's interesting how from a design standpoint there are two competing systems right now (similar to how you have to activate your focus school to get passives; doesn't make sense to me at all). On the one hand, there is a team based objective where, as a group, you are trying to reach a score threshold to beat the enemy AI. This is directly in conflict with the resource gathering mechanism where each individual player is responsible for gathering a certain number of points to get a return on investment. I don't clearly understand how having an arena type team-based scenario is enhanced by competing with your teammates for resources. Right now, The Index is a confused synthesis between cooperative and solo play. So I wonder, what's the point of having opposing game mechanics within the same mission? Is it meant to be some sort of hybrid between PVE and PVP? If so, I'd rather choose one or the other; certainly not both. I don't play Warframe for PVP, so when Index was announced I was interested because it simply appeared as though it was going to be another mission type with a new loot pool. What I found was an arena type scenario where enemies drop cash on the ground and players scramble to pick it up for themselves. Very little strategy or teamwork involved.

I think the solution is lowering the investment/return for individuals, but winning nets a payout being the total across all players. Instead of a meager 6000 credit return, each player could get 24k, which seems more on par with other missions. Also, completely scrap the idea of individual players needing to score a certain amount to qualify for a reward. The team is responsible for the score, and it's the team that succeeds or fails (think of Void missions of yesteryear like survival or defense; everyone gets a reward if the team succeeds and party comps were based around each player having a specific role to fill). I like the notion that this could be used as a new form of endurance type mission with more complex enemies and reward pool, but right now all I see are two opposing game mechanics in one scenario that just doesn't deliver in terms of enjoyment or cohesion.

[UltraLYT]

This may seem trivial in a video game, but is the return stated correctly?

Take The Index: Endurance as an example, you invest 45,000 and if the profit is also 45,000, then the return is exactly 45,000 (100%) but not 90,000 as suggested in the menu you choose low/medium/high risk investment.  The original 45,000 is the capital you invest in the index, it is not a return.

[fr4gb4ll]

i like the index arena, and would like see some more maps and enemy teams in it. the scaling you got in hotfix #4 did a good job in making the endurance index mission just the way it should be.

there two things though that should be done to the index (what i can think of for now): 1st. the enemies are not using the whole map as they could/should - they need a more efficient pathfinding.   2nd. the drop-chance for the index-mods are abysmal at best (don't even mention the rare mods chance) - i would like to see a increase in chance the higher one goes in the index rounds and also a better chance for the higer risks - for lets face the truth, most vets don't have credit problems anymore and therefore no use going highrisk when only farming the mods. for the endurance run, an increase in dropchance the higher the enemy level rises, would be a nice idea to.

[Silvus-Sol]

I have only two issues with this event.

1. The points should be team based and not individual. The goal should be for the team to score X points, not for the player to score X points.

2. The energy drain and health/shield reductions per point held seem awfully steep. I don't think they should go away, but they do need tweaking.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[zombi3h3art]

I would like to suggest that when we type in-game the different farmable relics, can we please be able to also see a list from there what that relic has to offer.

such as if I click on someone forming a squad for *[neo v3 relic] , [lith k1 relic] and such, once clicked if they could bring up a list of what can be farmed by using those relics, that would be really helpful during the recruiting chat!!

[Silvus-Sol]

49 minutes ago, zombi3h3art said:

I would like to suggest that when we type in-game the different farmable relics, can we please be able to also see a list from there what that relic has to offer.

such as if I click on someone forming a squad for *[neo v3 relic] , [lith k1 relic] and such, once clicked if they could bring up a list of what can be farmed by using those relics, that would be really helpful during the recruiting chat!!

Wrong place mate. This is the feedback topic for the Index event. Not saying this to be rude, but because I like your idea and it is going to be ignored at best (and possibly deleted) since it has nothing to do with the event.

[k05h]

I gave The Index another shot after the latest hotfix (#4). Balance is much better now than it was before. Thank you! It now feels similar to the Rathuum arenas. The only thing that you could make more visible/audible is when the timer in the endurance mission runs out. You can be very busy with surviving and totally forget about depositing your orbs for more playtime. 

I still play The Index missions solo becaus I still do not want to play steal the orb PvP, even if you call it soft-PvP. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by k05h

[Hedasker]

This event is a troll fest for everyone who wants to get the mods.

When you run it solo the bots score too quickly. In open squad the other players score too quickly. And of course I can't find a team dedicated to farm the mods. And as usual the drop rate is [CENSORED] far too low. I ask myself why I'm still playing this game...

[Gilmaesh]

Just some random things :

Not bad for credits.

i played mainly solo

Point from the raptor fell of the map fairly often in the outdoor map. And when i used my rakta cernos seems like it throw mob to far away and points also drop. 

How dare you made an enemy look like me... I was wondering who was this beautiful frame and was shot down. The death screen is pretty bad, with the red glowing edge and not being able to do anything.

For the point, i was thinking that, as long as you don't have your objective complete, kill that you make reward you the point, and when it's done, points from your kills become available to others.

Point should have a bit larger pick up area or a small vaccum.

Having the same combination of enemy is not good, people will leave farming for specific mods, either they all should be able to spawn or they should drop all the mods.

I want the index specters, they are clearly better than mines.

I don't think rathum and index should have been permanent addition, it should have stayed as events that comeback from time to time like the fomorian. It's fun once in a while but it will lose its flavor pretty quickly, like rathum.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Gilmaesh

[Worldbrand]

A few pieces of feedback in order of most to least important.

1. Having the mods drop from enemies is counter-intuitive because it forces players to actively go out of their way to do something that is not related to the match's objective, and is effectively exclusive from scoring points and winning. This is not the case in the endurance mode, but for obvious reasons players will not try to farm mods in the hardest difficulty.
2. Index points could still use some reconsidering. To avoid having them fall into unreachable places or off of the map, consider giving them the same behaviour as Oro. This would also help familiarize the connection to Conclave. I see the merit of not wanting to reward players who do not participate in the match, but the core mechanics still allow for a few problems:
   • More powerful players can easily prevent weaker players from obtaining points by hogging kills.
   • Players can simply steal points from each other without participating in the kill.
   • A cooperating team has to take time to communicate when they have achieved the reward threshold and manage the points distribution, meanwhile facing an enemy team that is expected to be a challenge. This extra layer of meta-gaming and prove frustrating, although its significance really depends on the personal goal value.
3. Teleporters are a little jarring in a few ways. You can see where an enemy may wind up, but it's difficult to predict when they will warp away. Since players will often destroy teleporters they're aware of, this basically means enemies will only end up unpredictably disappearing and reappearing in an unknown location. I would rather they work backwards - they run to the pads to escape. The destination could be anywhere; a random respawn node, maybe.
4. I think the map reverts to minimap when I die. I'd like this changed, because the first thing I want to do when I die is figure out where I died and how to quickly get back to whoever has my points.
5. This isn't event-specific feedback, but instead of having to constantly tweak enemy difficulty values for players at various levels, consider the merits of actually sending us in with our Conclave loadouts. Conclave is constantly being re-tweaked so that everybody is more or less on even ground. Abilities already have their effects adjusted and the health and energy economies are more or less in a stable place. Instead of arbitrarily setting limits on Warframe abilities and adjusting our health and energy based on Index points, I think it would be worthwhile to try PvE conclave with the index/rathuum units. There is merit to allowing players to feel more powerful as they progress with their PvE loadouts, but on the harder difficulties our weapons become ineffectual anyways.

[JalakBali]

Feedback:

- There's no actual incentive to hold many points before banking them. You got penalized for holding too much and no actual benefit. It seems like the only thing it's good for is when you scooped up a lot of points from someone who died and must now rush to bank them.

- Banking points that you no longer need because you already filled your target serves nothing except to end the game (when the match is about points). So you would end up taking away points from other players that need the points. It needs an option where you could give your extra points to the rest of the team. Otherwise, give a better incentive to be a selfish jerk and hoard all the points.

[ZUBO-EGT-]

A bit late, but here comes my feedback:

1.) Personal targets for the credit rewards - these should in my view be replaced by a bit more ambitious goals that only need to be completed once by the team. This would promote teamwork and reduce trolling etc.

2.) When you cash in your Points you should either be healed back to full health OR health globes should restore much more HP. To be fair if there is a Trin in your group you won't have that problem, but why not make it a bit easier for teams without a healer? The same could be said about energy orbs. 90% of all matches I did not use a single ability because I never had enough energy.

3.) The endless scaling is too fast. It should start a bit lower and increase more slowly. If at all possible damage should scale even slower as it just turns into a one-shot fest after a while that is no fun at all. Instead it should just become harder to gather enough points to extend the clock. Perhaps each point could then extend the clock a bit less.

On the plus side I really liked the enemies and their unique mechanics. Its something different and that's good.

[TheDoodle]

Assuming 'no' is invalid feedback...

Where do I begin?

It's terrible for solo play, allied specters ruin a plethora of playstyles that don't involve simply being invincible, simply by being pre-cast targets, every time you turn a corner one of your allies has aggro'd the aimbot opticor and you're dead. If you somehow manage to avoid this, say hello to my little scaling armored and shield units.  Such gigantic HP sponges and my spectres are just the opposite.

It's terrible for squad play, the enemy is already enough of a competition.. as is the timer... and everything else... I really hate fighting my "allies" in this scramble for tiny green dots. On the subject...

Tiny Green Dots.  Maybe it's years of only playing with my carrier prime because kubrows and other sentinels were absolutely 'eh' compared to having nothing but a Vacuum mod equipped on a Carrier but a larger pick-up range would probably be the best thing for the mode. I feel the same way about Void Reactant.  If you have over 100 ping with a friend, lol, have fun doubling back just to make sure the server understands that yes, you wanted to pick up that thing you just walked over 50 times. You really really wanted it. Thank you game...

The Enemies.

No one aims the opticor that well and gets away with it.

Revealing Stealth... Is Warframe technology really so easily disassembled? Revealing stealth is dumb, why don't you confess to the world that this mode is only for the tankiest of tanks? :I

Finishers... This is sort of a segway from Stealth Revealing.. but, yeah, many of these robots have cans that don't open. And, I don't like that one bit.  Simply put, why can't I Fatal Teleport all the things..?

And the mother of it all....

Jamming the Hud... Is just awful, it's a huge eye-sore, always has been... it's not fun, it doesn't drain all your energy, like disruptors, THANK GOD, but in the realm of procs, this thing is the nullifier, only... It literally is nullifying my ability to enjoy the game. There's no much playing around it for many builds... And honestly...If I wanted to play without a Hud I'd appreciate it if it were an option and not an impassible gimmick designed to make "pro warframers" feel more competent than the new wavers by simulating a more challenging environment, and if the option to remove the hud was implemented, I would simply want it gone, not taxing the holy heck out of my eyes, ears, and interest.  Ugh, I hate enemies that mess with my hud.

The rewards.. Lol, High Risk Endurance is such a pain. Such a pain that 200k is reasonable? The mods in there are not good, simple, there's no incentive to run around in the index other than John Prodman's autograph, and you might find it blasphemous but that is literally worth nothing to me. 200,000 credits for people strong enough to solo this thing is almost worthless, those are the kinds of people who already have everything, why don't you give invasion rewards and event progress over to the Index? Or Nitain Extract. Or Argon Crystals. Or any other rare resource. What about the old mods that we can't get anywhere else? What about the old weapons that we can't get anywhere else.  These things are more valuable to seasoned players than credits and a... not so enjoyable experience.  Now I'm not saying you have to go ham on the rewards, keep the goodest of the goodies at the hardest difficulty level, but make the experience less... taxing.

[Tanner_Lindberg]

when i put up points and win it never gives me profit or my credits back it just takes them