Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[[DE]Danielle]

We decided to rework Blade Storm after almost a full year of the same themed feedback showing up. We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting. We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Blade Storm.

Blade Storm Changes:

• Blade Storm now has a new 'Mark Enemy' mode that is activated when you hit 4. Ash enters target mode, which you can freely target enemies with your reticule up to 3 times each for attack. Once you're satisfied, press 4 again, Blade Storm begins and all targeted enemies are attacked!
• Each mark costs Energy (15) which is affected by Mods. If a marked enemy is killed by a squad mate, you will get the energy back. 
• Marks made while invisible by any source will have a cheaper base cost (10). 
• Enemies killed by Blade Storm will dissolve, leaving no corpse behind to detect!

Teleport Changes:

• Teleport will now allow you to target anything with a health bar! Instead of being limited to Teleporting to allies or enemies, you can now teleport to objects. 

Smokescreen Changes:

• Smoke Screen can now be cast while running (no lower body movement lock).
• Smoke Screen can now be cast while in-air! 

Please note that we will be closely monitoring your practical feedback - please feel free to share videos and discussions after playing this rework. It'll help us if you include details on your build used too. 

Edit: Non-constructive feedback, dev-bashing, and any other content that violates Code of Conduct will be removed.

Edit: All related threads will be merged here. Thank you! 

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Here's an idea for you.  It goes with the spirit of your reworks in warframe - synergies between abilities, and thematic consistency.

instead of having control taken away from you, what if when you activate bladestorm, a flurry of shuriken and smoke emanates from where you casted it?

Inside that radius, enemies would get slash procs and have reduced accuracy.  Ash would have his armblades drawn, which would be melee weapons that draw from his melee slot.   He COULD sheathe them, and even use other weapons, however, he would lose the charge functionality of his blades if he doesn't draw them again.  While inside the radius of Blade Storm, if he attacks with his blades with a charge attack, he teleports to and finishes the target, reusing the old animations.

Also, while inside his blade storm, his abilities are increased in efficacy.  Normal teleport is reduced in cost, and shuriken does extra damage, and makes slash procs more severe.

Perhaps, as he gets more and more slash procs and kills, the radius of his Storm could increase, or maybe he could simply spawn clones of himself.  But that borders on OP DPS.  Perhaps his clones could be a normal part of the ability, because they'd distract enemies and lend more defensive utility to his ult.  If not, perhaps the decreased accuracy would suffice.

Its radius would be determined by range.  The damage of the procs would be determined by strength, and so would the damage bonus to the rest of his abilities - allowing him to compound in effectiveness.  Its efficiency/duration would be determined by efficiency and duration mods, as the trend has been recently.  

I'd like to know what everyone thinks. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Gaminus

[LunarEdge7]

I like the idea of using synergy of these three abilities. They hardly have any.

Shuriken to mark priority targets, check.

Lower cost teleport while in Blade Storm form, check.

Clones could just join you in killing the marked targets then disappear.

Edited September 16, 2016 by LunarEdge7

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Just now, LunarEdge7 said:

I like the idea of using synergy of these three abilities. They hardly have any.

Shuriken to mark priority targets, check.

Lower cost teleport while in Blade Storm form, check.

Clones could just join you in killing the market targets then disappear.

Huh.  using shuriken to spawn clones or mark targets would be great.  It'd add synergy to shuriken's augment as well.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I really don't want another passive "exalted" type ult.

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

13 hours ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

I really don't want another passive "exalted" type ult.

Eh, I'd say that this is sufficiently different.  It only really affects an area, and one person at a time, maybe a few more with the use of more powers.  Its not a fire and forget.

[DSpite]

I seriously have no idea what DE can do to un-frak Blade Storm so that it does not create a Poo Storm with people.

Many people are so used to be able to wipe an area that practically any change to that will be "bad" for them.

You know the ability in Shadow Of Mordor called Shadow Strike Chain? I would have rather the ability worked more like that. You enter "Wraith Mode" then can look around, spot targets and try to jump to as many as possible within the ability timing/cost constraints.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

14 hours ago, Gaminus said:

if he attacks with his blades with a charge attack, he teleports to and finishes the target, reusing the old animations.

This is the same BS that we don't want. I concur that having his hidden blade be more use to the player.

 

14 hours ago, Gaminus said:

Also, while inside his blade storm, his abilities are increased in efficacy.  Normal teleport is reduced in cost, and shuriken does extra damage, and makes slash procs more severe.

This is overpowered.

 

14 hours ago, Gaminus said:

Perhaps his clones could be a normal part of the ability, because they'd distract enemies and lend more defensive utility to his ult.  If not, perhaps the decreased accuracy would suffice.

This is where the clones be of some use. I would abhor more than just tap to let the game take control of my ash.

[Fugana]

For me it will be totall badas if when we press 4 void wholes are opened behid enemies and from there diferent Ashes - primes, normal, crapy, shiny etc taking our enemies into the void and the whole closed itslef and we hearing screams of the enemies 
mby it will be lame for some players but for me it will be a total badass 

[Nazrethim]

15 hours ago, Gaminus said:

Here's an idea for you.  It goes with the spirit of your reworks in warframe - synergies between abilities, and thematic consistency.

instead of having control taken away from you, what if when you activate bladestorm, a flurry of shuriken and smoke emanates from where you casted it?

Inside that radius, enemies would get slash procs and have reduced accuracy.  Ash would have his armblades drawn, which would be melee weapons that draw from his melee slot.   He COULD sheathe them, and even use other weapons, however, he would lose the charge functionality of his blades if he doesn't draw them again.  While inside the radius of Blade Storm, if he attacks with his blades with a charge attack, he teleports to and finishes the target, reusing the old animations.

Also, while inside his blade storm, his abilities are increased in efficacy.  Normal teleport is reduced in cost, and shuriken does extra damage, and makes slash procs more severe.

Perhaps, as he gets more and more slash procs and kills, the radius of his Storm could increase, or maybe he could simply spawn clones of himself.  But that borders on OP DPS.  Perhaps his clones could be a normal part of the ability, because they'd distract enemies and lend more defensive utility to his ult.  If not, perhaps the decreased accuracy would suffice.

Its radius would be determined by range.  The damage of the procs would be determined by strength, and so would the damage bonus to the rest of his abilities - allowing him to compound in effectiveness.  Its efficiency/duration would be determined by efficiency and duration mods, as the trend has been recently.  

I'd like to know what everyone thinks. 

-Smoke Screen should be the ability that makes a smoke cloud. Throwing shurikens around is not really different from other radials. Cast=Results. Same problem we currently have with Bladestorm.

-So.. charge attacks? what about Wristblades combos? Ash is a pragmatic and brutal martial artist, why not make those moves into a Stance rather than a charge attack? Also, how do you sheate them exactly? by canceling the ability?

- "reduced cost" and "extra damage" aren't really mechanically interesting. It would also make the abilities pointless to cast without BS active. The idea is that the abilities work together to create greater results, but don't require each other to do their actual jobs.

-Clones should assist Ash on the killing, not be summoned and wander around taking bullets. If we want summonable meatshields, we use Nekros or Atlas.

-How does this makes duration desirable?

 

-How would this work in Conclave exactly?

 

I recomend you to flesh out and set your ideas. Check this useful thread if you need some advice:

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

16 minutes ago, Fugana said:

For me it will be totall badas if when we press 4 void wholes are opened behid enemies and from there diferent Ashes - primes, normal, crapy, shiny etc taking our enemies into the void and the whole closed itslef and we hearing screams of the enemies 
mby it will be lame for some players but for me it will be a total badass 

Where the hell were you when DE was thinking up limbo?

[Fugana]

On 17.09.2016 г. at 4:22 PM, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

Where the hell were you when DE was thinking up limbo?

Whell that would be too awesome for a free to play game <.< there are ons of ideas for every warframe to be the most badass space creature/ninja possible but it will not be a free game anymore : \ 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

@Nazrethim rework =this will turn ash into a team player and his abilities will actually have some synergy.

Edited June 11, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Fugana]

On 19.09.2016 г. at 3:52 AM, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

This link towards the bottom of the page. https://m.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4vf6ib/ash_rework/

this will turn ash into a team player and his abilities will actually have some synergy 

This sounds very promising if its actually true 

[Nagisawa]

So, I just watched Prime Time 144 with the Ash Bladestorm rework, and after watching DE Rebecca and DE Megan constantly get into each other's way preventing Bladestorm from working at its best, I'm left asking why is this frame still on the roster?  Every pass they've done they've made the poor frame worse.

Worse, they just proved that Ash is a soloist's warframe, with little to no team utility.  Simply because that it's power set is even less useful from a weapons standpoint.  A single bullet will still kill faster than Bladestorm.

[ButterLutter]

Thanks for the changes!

Looking forward for new builds, like more duration for smokescreen

Edited November 25, 2016 by ButterLutter

[main_antagonist]

If the rework isn't taken kindly I suggest DE skims over my old concept, But I'm certain the new rework will be fine :D so hyped!

------------

 

[Melos-mevim]

looking forward to giving it a try, going to edit this comment after I have played around with it to give my feed back

 

edit-

quick disclaimer I am not an ash player never really have been take what I say with a grain of salt

 

So early thoughts are I'm not really a fan, while I do like the direction that its going and it does get rid of the more brain dead spam 4 mind set this ability used to have it still has the one core issue I have with ash and I think other non ash players can agree (not all just some others) the ability is itself is still a non interactive janky vomit cam cut-scene that clips through terrain, this has always been my main issue with Ash that blade storm has always been a sit and watch ability, all the rework changed was you now do a little bit more stuff before you get to the sitting and watching but the end result is still that, sitting and watching.

 

I think a lot more work needs to be done to blade storm to make it a fun interactive ability.

 

as for the rest of his kit, I really like that smokescreen can be casted on the go, still feel it needs a bit more duration, his invis skill is a pitiful joke compared to loki or ivara

 

teleport can still result in some janky stuff when it comes to terrain.

 

and shuriken is just fine as is

Edited November 25, 2016 by Melos-mevim

[lama_music]

Finally! My fav player is revised! <3 luv u 

[An8rchy]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS REWORK

I can finnaly play Ash. never played it besides lvling it up

[CaptainPepeg]

Great. Now BS spammers realizes that he got more than 1 skill :D . As an ash player, i'm so happy about his changes

[Zeruge]

Great so not 4 to win anymore that should encourage other people to pick him up again.

Lets see how that goes, hope it goes well.

[LycanPT]

I think what players really wanted out of ash bladestorm was to not be stuck in an animation and that market targets could still be killed by teammates, all you accomplished in my perspective was straitgh nerf the ability while keeping the annoying features of it, you didn't rework teh mechanic, you just added a condition to trigger it

[Toquette]

i love it, thanks DE

[xaanos]

You changed Ash but didn't change the headache inducing screen shake animation!? Why!? :(