Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[RunningTree3]

* Shuriken

Disregarding its augment, this is still outclassed by one single instance of new Blade Storm (2000 Finisher + proc for 15e vs 2x500 Slash + proc for 25e). The idea of 'pinning enemies to walls' has not yet been actualised. That said, it is a one-handed non-interrupting action, and is one of the reasons for why I still support Blade Storm having an animation lock.

* Smoke Screen

The new casting change is great, and finally makes it an acceptable alternative to Loki and Ivara. Energy-wise, Smoke Screen still actually gives more time invisible (4.3s per e) than Loki's Invisibility (4.1s per e); and it comes with an area stun. If there were to be a duration increase, it has to at least come with an energy cost increase -- and it does sound like players would prefer duration in this case.

* Teleport

Some good tweaks. Needs to work on more targets. Some comments have suggested that the ability could simply do a limited dash (~10m) if there is no target.

* Blade Storm

After some adjustments, I have found this to be a useful change. The risk/reward aspect is similar to Sound Quake and Peace Maker: you can choose to use the power for longer/more targets, but risk being unable to do other things. So I support animation lock as a matter of risk/reward balancing. But I would also very much support the ability to exit early out of Blade Storm -- especially if you accidentally target the wrong things. #Blexit

However as much as I maintain that some sort of lock is useful for balancing, I would also agree that getting into a long animation lock is both boring and visually unpleasant. Perhaps the compromise is that Ash only performs the first animation, leaving the rest for the clones (and freeing the enemies from invulnerable phase). Another alternative could be some crazy multi-split-screen madness where Ash performs all the first-mark animations at the same time.

[Get_Of_Fenris]

Let it go, man. Ash rework is fine.

[Gremlin]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I did. It was not as bad as people say "ash is useless" "he should be a starter frame because he is not endgame anymore" "i pressed 4 but i didn't win, rip". But he doesn't feel that fun or awe inspiring anymore.  And using the power on a controller is just horrendously clumsy. In a squad where people are using their really high power gear,  he is actually kinda weak and I've actually grown a lot more fond of my seeking shuriken build.

Ah, havent tried a controller so I cant say much about that, although that definitely could be a valid concern.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Reworkception thread...

We gotta try it first before say anything else, we might come to a different conclusion to what people say about the rework.

But if theres anything i would like the dev to add in this rework is that:

1) BS can only hit once for each enemy marked, more marks will only add damage to that one hit. 

2) marks get symbolized by a single colored-triangle above enemies head: Blue = 1 mark; Yellow = 2 marks; Red = 3 marks

^This additional will cutdown BS animation duration by 50%, speed up the BS process so others can participate in the battle, also the color coded mark will look minimalist & pretty...

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Xekrin]

An idea to help with the jarring animation cutscenes that seem to upset more than a few people.  Not sure if possible but here goes.

Instead of it randomly flashing/porting from one target to another, why not keep the focus/POV on Ash.  The first target gets teleported to, after that we enter a high speed smoke travel mode where he literally moves from one target to the next, with the closest target being the next and so on.  

If targets are 10+ meters apart then he teleports to it in a cutscene but within 10 meters perhaps more if it works out it is more like titania's archwing melee rather than 2 second cut scenes that jump from one target to another without anything in between.

This way we actually see yourself traveling between targets jumping out of the shadows and striking each target rather than poof cut scene attack poof another cut scene attack.

Again, it is a little difficult to explain how I see it mentally but if this sparks an idea, that'd be great.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

25 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

The rework actually feels really sweet. Give it a try before you judge so hard. I was pleasantly surprised.

If you think it's sweet. can you answer me these questions?

What if i marked 7 enemies,

One or 2 of them got away of my line of sight and went to another room

Will i be still able to BS them?

IF not, isn't a waste of time? and will i get back my energy i spent on those 2?

[Awazx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

More like 95% dont like it,  3.5% are indifferent and the 1.5% that play ash in low level solo missions love it. 

 

[spatakiller123]

Once you mark an enemy the mark will NEVER go away unless you run into a nullifier bubble. So yes, even if they are far out of your line of sight you will still bladestorm them.

[wess23]

2 hours ago, Raniu said:

I don't agree with all the 'Peacemakes is fine' comments.

We're playing a ninja game yet we become immobile in Peacemaker. She's mostly used on def missions :/

• allow players to zoom in while in Peacemaker

• allow players to walk (Nyx's augmented Absorb speed) while in Peacemaker (ability's feature)

+ allow players to use Mesa's Waltz in PvE (a mod you have give up a mod slot for)

Voila, Mesa is perfect.

Aprovado

[LunarEdge7]

I think the only problem is the energy cost and the damage not being worth that much energy.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

Ah, havent tried a controller so I cant say much about that, although that definitely could be a valid concern.

I put the bindings on that pressing left d-pad and triangle activates target mode that i have to activate again to bs. It's clumsy because it's hard to move, aim at an enemy, and activate the power, and aiming while moving is a lot more difficult than with a mouse and keyboard.

[Hitotsume]

honestly, after the rework, it become way more fun to play, i feel like i actually playing the frame, not just spamming 4th.

CMIIW

[megastorm]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

2) marks get symbolized by a single colored-triangle above enemies head: Blue = 1 mark; Yellow = 2 marks; Red = 3 marks

No, I am colorblind.

[Aurruxco]

I don't play ash anymore because I sold him. But, what my suggestion should they change it again is:

- Marking still works the same way but;
- It's just the illusions that does the killing

[NativeKiller]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

2) marks get symbolized by a single colored-triangle above enemies head: Blue = 1 mark; Yellow = 2 marks; Red = 3 marks

3 minutes ago, megastorm said:

No, I am colorblind.

Yeah, I am semi-color blind as well, and this is a real big no-no if you ask me.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

3 minutes ago, megastorm said:

No, I am colorblind.

Then a 3 bladed shuriken star symbol (a silhouette of something like hikou or hikou prime), each blade part of the shuriken represent a mark for a total of 3 marks

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I guess no one likes the invisibility idea then?

[Gremlin]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

If you think it's sweet. can you answer me these questions?

What if i marked 7 enemies,

One or 2 of them got away of my line of sight and went to another room

Will i be still able to BS them?

IF not, isn't a waste of time? and will i get back my energy i spent on those 2?

Either you get them or you get your energy back. Im pretty sure if they're marked, you'll hit them. Haven't run into them getting too far away from me after they've been marked. 

[Prov3rbialToast]

I kinda wish for the following:

• Shuriken is actually a fan of shurikens that scales with power strength (maybe in number, idk). Potentially has several different shurikens, like a sleep shuriken, a poison shuriken, maybe even a marking-type shuriken that could combo with the other abilities? I dunno, just a thought. Heck, maybe incentivise it by making it rip through eximus bubbles or even nullie bubbles, lol.
• Smoke Bomb is actually pretty good rn, but I was thinking that maybe we could do something like synergizing it with teleport and bladestorm. Like, with teleport, maybe dropping a smoke bomb and then teleporting while invisible could result in a smoke bomb being dropped wherever you teleported. I dunno, just a thought. Maybe the smoke bomb could also apply a blind or "blindness" type thing (basically just a temporary rad proc).
• Teleport could maybe combine with the marking shurikens for free bladestorm marks? I dunno, seems pretty good rn.
• Bladestorm is like 70% of the way there, imo. I like the concept of tactical bladestorming. It's a big shift in focus from before. However, what I do think is that maybe we could do the following things that I saw on Reddit:
  • You don't actually get involved in bladestorm. The clones do the stuff for you if you mark. You're free to move around.
  • Since you're free to move around, the other abilities could maybe have an interesting synergy. Because you're free to move around, invisibility could, for instance, increase damage dealt kinda like how Loki does it. However, to balance this out, it could have some sort of energy drain or some requirement in terms of killing to sustain. If you're not invisible, maybe it could instead make Teleport better by knocking enemies down and stunning them with a sort of mini Smoke Bomb. Just no invisibility afterwards.

Idk, just some thoughts I had because I like the shift in focus from "murder everything with 4" to "you have choice over the engagement terms".

Edited November 28, 2016 by Prov3rbialToast
forgot some words, rip.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

Too bad they didn't remove Bladestorm and buff Shuriken instead, there is no reason to complain about this rework if you aren't cheesing things by spamming that...

We got a mobility buff, look buff (Deluxe) and a Bladestorm buff (i heard that now you can focus your damage on a single enemy, Anti-Bombard?).

 

Been an Ash main ever since i started playing Warframe and i hated how heavily automatic and powerful Bladestorm was since forever, Shuriken + Corrosive Explosive Hikou Prime however *.* My favorite Ash playstyle!

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ArnnFrost
"Grammar"

[Avynire]

I like the new bs, my only nit pick is the animation, I wish it look like excal dash enemy to enemy, instead of old aanimation ash teleporting around,or let the clone do the damage while ash able move around but removed bs invulnerability. Havent tried enough too see how the energy consumption in long run

Edited November 28, 2016 by Avynire

[kyori]

I think there's no need to change the old bladestorm, just make it that allies can kill enemies which is being bladestorm. That's the main problem haters have. 

[Thrymm]

I'm not really sure where else to put them, in terms of gameplay, and I know all of these ideas wouldn't necessarily make sense(and certainly not implement them all, that'd be Riven overkill, IMO), but here goes:

Trials wouldn't be a bad idea as one area, though I doubt they'd generate significantly more traffic.

Rare containers at any level.

Rotation C, Supply Cache, and Spy mission rewards from "hard" nodes wouldn't be a bad place to offer them.

Perhaps even a chance at Riven from nightmare mode missions.

A rare alert--we already get them for potatoes and whatnot already, adding this to the mix wouldn't be all bad either.  We've got alertium in the Sortie drop table ostensibly because those alerts don't happen often enough, logically RIven could be in alerts for the same reason in reverse.

Potential boss fight drops.

Same price as a mod pack from the market, but only getting the one mod.

Stalker, Zenuka, and the Grustrag Three.  Put it in place of the heavy impacts and other garbage mods that have no right being in their loot tables.

Rare transmute, for the gamblers out there.  Perhaps restrict it to only transmutes that do not use the modifier mod that makes it free, or even let the ole' Cephalon have a new transmute mod that costs a bunch (100k?) and guarantees one.

All of these, outside of the outright purchase option, are either potentially rare or about as "end game" as the Sorties really are.  Rotation C on most hard nodes showcases enemies in low Sortie range, and continuing to a second round of C puts a player against that level enemies handily.  Transmuting on that scale is a wealthy mans game, which is a player that has enough time spent to afford to do this.  The surprise assassin fights aren't necessarily end game or high level, but they are rare enough that they'd be a special occasion that's worthy of potential high rewards.

Those are just some ideas, all of it based upon the notion that Riven mods are already so random and costly to improve that having the ability to potential get more than one a day would not be a game breaking thing.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Thrymm
This isn't the thread I was putting this in, though that thread was poorly titled.

[(XBOX)JmanBam]

Not really sure how I feel about this rework, I will have to wait for it to come to us console plebs tho.

Shuriken is great as is. 

Smoke screen is an improvement a crucial one but small. Still wish the stagger effect could see an increased duration. This would give him more crowed  control ability which will help in making him a more team frame and less of a solo frame. 

Teleport, eh I like it I guess.  With fatal teleport and covert lethality I can't really complain about this power.....so much. 

Blade storm, sounds more interactive but less rewarding now. The cutsceen needs to be cut ? But maybe just limit the cut screen to 1 or 2  and then let the clones finish the rest while the frame is free to run. Again this would help make ash a more team frame and less solo. The possibilities for customization if you were to allow ashes clones to work alone on the power would be improved too, It could be revised to a more AOE type power, you aim and mark and the clones attack the mark while also attracting enemy attention around them, basically how it now just leave the clones to do the work and not ash himself. For real DE i think you really missed the community feedback on this power! 

The skins are sex tho! 

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by (XB1)JmanBam

[Josarian]

I kind of wish this was pay 2 play.

If it was I could easily say (insert complain) unsubscribe.

In the warcraft mod for counter-strike server I played there wasn't such a thing as nerfing. The other classes just got slightly buffed.

Can I get a huzzah for progress and not for singular conformity?