Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Cray]

Just now, SevenLetterKWord said:

Toggle pinpoint with RMB.

There might be some kinks to work out with that approach, but I definitely see potential there.

 

Make it happen, DE!

[zaxthealien]

So far, I think this Ash rework is a good job, but can be better. We need more synergy between his skills and mods that needed by the skills.

Just some ideas:

• Make blade storm uses energy not by the number enemies marked, but the time needed to mark the enemies.

for example : 25 for activation + 25 for each second he's marking.

Yes, he will need power duration, but it's needed by his second skill too.

• Make blade storm's targeting cone visible and affected by power range mod.
• Enemies affected by shuriken's slash status automatically marked as a blade storm targets.
• When a shuriken is flying, casting teleport without any target will teleport you to the shuriken.
• If there's any enemy affected by shuriken's status, casting teleport without any target will teleport you to closest affected enemy.
• If more than 1 augment per skill is allowed, a teleport (or smoke screen) augment idea: when casting teleport, gives a chance to automatically cast smoke screen too at the target right after teleporting.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, zaxthealien said:

• Make blade storm uses energy not by the number enemies marked, but the time needed to mark the enemies.

for example : 25 for activation + 25 for each second he's marking.

No for this.  Everything else you mentioned is cool. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

This is what I think they should have done to Bladestorm.

[DatDarkOne]

Actually, I remember seeing that Devstream.  They did say that it was too powerful.  This was Scott that said it. 

[dodyouserious]

lol

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If you aren't going to revert Blade Storm then at least fix the new one. You are claiming that the lack of interactivity is why you nerfed it in the first place, so fix the extended cutscene.

Have Ash mark targets, each up to 3 times. When you take 4 again, have Ash send out shadow clones to attack the marked enemies. Have Ash pick one randomly, and replace that clone, having it prefer one with 3 marks. That way you can stop ash from making enemies immune for long periods, and the cutscene never lasts more than 3 hits.

 

[DarthBane1]

I like this. It's a good idea. Like have an army of ashes go out. It'd be quicker.

[MessoR]

Are they still immune? It looked like they can take damage when ulted.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, MessoR said:

Are they still immune? It looked like they can take damage when ulted.

As far as I could tell, the one he was currently attacking was

[Drakorix]

Maybe sending yourself to BladeStorm only on 3rd mark would be 2 cheezy maybe?

[Koldraxon-732]

Perhaps have Ash attack the first three targets, each successive attack doing more damage and extending the bleed proc duration, followed by his Shadow Clones finishing them off.

Although there should be an 'Acolyte' batch of augments for him, because of how his ult's first stage looks.

Spoiler

 

Shadow-Slash: Supplants Shuriken with a forward-leaping attack that targets and chases a foe (using Ash's 4 to mark a target will make them die from a Shadow Clone), and then slashes them with both blades.

Smokey Exterior: Augment for Bladestorm. When the 'find targets' segment is activated, gain equivalent of Iron Skin and Elemental immunity. Costs 100 energy initially, but first 10 marks are free of charge.

 

 

[----Fenrir----]

1 hour ago, MessoR said:

Are they still immune? It looked like they can take damage when ulted.

They are still immune, and there seems to be no way around that is as long as Ash does the attacking himself because as I remember the invulnerability was added because teammates killing enemies that Ash was attacking caused him to bug-out.

So sending only clones out really would be a welcome change because that would mean that they could finally remove the annoying invulnerability. And they might as well remove that stupid marking system as well. For balancing they could either reduce the BS range or add LOS restrictions to Bladestorm. The effect would be kinda the same, making BS less op, yet it would make the ability feel way less clunky to use.

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

They are still immune, and there seems to be no way around that is as long as Ash does the attacking himself because as I remember the invulnerability was added because teammates killing enemies that Ash was attacking caused him to bug-out.

So sending only clones out really would be a welcome change because that would mean that they could finally remove the annoying invulnerability. And they might as well remove that stupid marking system as well. For balancing they could either reduce the BS range or add LOS restrictions to Bladestorm. The effect would be kinda the same, making BS less op, yet it would make the ability feel way less clunky to use.

They are inmune because that's how Melee Finishers work. Remember that Blade Storm attacks are counted as Melee Finishers (hence why Trickery works on it). It was always like this, even in old bladestorm, you could attack red targets as long as they weren't being attacked.

They added LOS restriction to Blade Storm in the form of the marking system. BS is fine now. Now Miramulor and World on Ember... they could use a nerf and a tweak respectively.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Personally I use Bladestorm more as a stun, but that's just me.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

44 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

They are inmune because that's how Melee Finishers work. Remember that Blade Storm attacks are counted as Melee Finishers (hence why Trickery works on it). It was always like this, even in old bladestorm, you could attack red targets as long as they weren't being attacked.

They added LOS restriction to Blade Storm in the form of the marking system. BS is fine now. Now Miramulor and World on Ember... they could use a nerf and a tweak respectively.

WoF is weak. If its nerfed might as well replace with nothing... because its worse than nothing endgame.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

WoF is weak. If its nerfed might as well replace with nothing... because its worse than nothing endgame.

I said "tweak" not "nerf". Two different things. My idea is to make WoF accumulate an "overheat" in stacks at a rate of 1 stack per second, each stack increasing range and damage for Ember abilities (including WoF itself) by 5% and the WoF drain by 0.5 per stack.

[Arkvold]

7 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Toggle pinpoint wide-area cone targetting with RMB.

Fixed that for you.  Pinpoint as default, for when you want to use Bladestorm to eliminate one pesky guard from a position of cover (and so you don't accidentally over-commit to a Bladestorm and give yourself away).  Hold RMB when you want kill that guy, and everyone in his general vicinity.

If you have wide-area as a default, you'll wind up marking groups of targets before you can get RMB held down.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I said "tweak" not "nerf". Two different things. My idea is to make WoF accumulate an "overheat" in stacks at a rate of 1 stack per second, each stack increasing range and damage for Ember abilities (including WoF itself) by 5% and the WoF drain by 0.5 per stack.

 

One problem...corpus nullies

[Nazrethim]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

6 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

One problem...corpus nullies

Tell me a Warframe that isn't scr*wed by nullifiers?

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 minute ago, Arkvold said:

Fixed that for you.  Pinpoint as default, for when you want to use Bladestorm to eliminate one pesky guard from a position of cover (and so you don't accidentally over-commit to a Bladestorm and give yourself away).  Hold RMB when you want kill that guy, and everyone in his general vicinity.

If you have wide-area as a default, you'll wind up marking groups of targets before you can get RMB held down.

Except for the fact that players are used to thinking of RMB as ADS for increased precision.

Also, be realistic: How often do you think a Blade Storm user is going to say, "No, I don't want to kill all the targets in this room"?
Area targeting is clearly the preferred option, and thus should be the default.

And it's not like anyone's preventing you from holding RMB before activating Blade Storm.

[Arkvold]

8 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Except for the fact that players are used to thinking of RMB as ADS for increased precision.

Also, be realistic: How often do you think a Blade Storm user is going to say, "No, I don't want to kill all the targets in this room"?
Area targeting is clearly the preferred option, and thus should be the default.

And it's not like anyone's preventing you from holding RMB before activating Blade Storm.

I use pinpoint single-target bladestorms all the time in Spy missions and Rescues.  It may seem weird and counterproductive, but it works better than Teleport most of the time since Bladestorm returns you to your starting position (preferably out of sight and in cover), costs less (less than 30 energy for a three-mark attack if you have any degree of positive efficiency, less than 10 energy if you only need one mark to do the job), is more reliable (Bladestorm can't fail if your target is on a hill or moving) and doesn't leave a body to alert enemies.

I will agree that it may be less intuitive due to the parallel with aiming down sights, but for those who've already gotten familiar with pinpoint Bladestorm attacks, it'd mean less adjustment.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Arkvold

[Love2Camp]

New Bladestorm is horrible. The fact that I have to TARGET every mob I want to kill is dumb enough. But the indicator that something is targeted isn't very visible, you can't target what you can't see, it's slow to target, it's just... rubbish. Compared to many other ultimates where you push a button and all the mobs go dead, this is even worse than the old BS. I will not be using it. Way too clunky and slow in a game where everyone else "steals" your kills if you slack.

[-BM-Mitz]

Can we have Ash teleport to everything you can scan instead?

That way you can teleport to hack consoles and such, I think it'll be a neat feature.

[Sannidor]

A simple teleport forward without requirements would be more acceptable, even at higher energy cost if no enemy is present.

Teleporting to objects as it is looks like a bug embraced in development process.

Fixing finishers on teleport augment would also be nice.