Nidus's 15 Stack loss. Fair, BUT...

[achromos]

16 hours ago, Gelkor said:

You also lose energy, and buffs, and melee combo windows, and procs, like every frame does when they die. Nekros loses his entire pool of slain enemies for raising. Dying is bad. 

Not if you go into bleedout.

[Chewarette]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:17 AM, achromos said:

You aren't helping.

You can still get one-shot in higher end content.  Then you lose everything without any sort of gain or purpose.  Secondly, if you have a idiot team-mate shooting everything in sight your 3 doesn't work.  Thirdly... his 4 isn't a end-all-be-all for CC or keeping you alive in high-end content.

I've revived my friends 10 times yesterday against level 230+ Infested (Ancients everywhere). The link makes you ridiculously near invulnerable, don't even forget the fact that it doesn't even cost any point of energy.

And the problem you're issuing is just a gameplay issue. Why should Nidus have something more than everyone else ? Heck, he already has something more than everyone else : a godly passive. All the Warframes have to use something to revive someone in high-level missions. Either a mass control, an invulnerability spell, shoot everyone, or just don't revive. Why should Nidus be 100% invulnerable from start to beginning ? That's nonsense.

[Chiffolololon]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

I've revived my friends 10 times yesterday against level 230+ Infested (Ancients everywhere). The link makes you ridiculously near invulnerable, don't even forget the fact that it doesn't even cost any point of energy.

And the problem you're issuing is just a gameplay issue. Why should Nidus have something more than everyone else ? Heck, he already has something more than everyone else : a godly passive. All the Warframes have to use something to revive someone in high-level missions. Either a mass control, an invulnerability spell, shoot everyone, or just don't revive. Why should Nidus be 100% invulnerable from start to beginning ? That's nonsense.

Very well said. exactly my point.

[Xzorn]

I don't see the point in comparing Nidus' passive to anything.

His passive is just his version of the revive mechanic.

If he didn't have his own revive mechanic he would be kinda bad.

[achromos]

17 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I've revived my friends 10 times yesterday against level 230+ Infested (Ancients everywhere). The link makes you ridiculously near invulnerable, don't even forget the fact that it doesn't even cost any point of energy.

And the problem you're issuing is just a gameplay issue. Why should Nidus have something more than everyone else ? Heck, he already has something more than everyone else : a godly passive. All the Warframes have to use something to revive someone in high-level missions. Either a mass control, an invulnerability spell, shoot everyone, or just don't revive. Why should Nidus be 100% invulnerable from start to beginning ? That's nonsense.

Again, wagging your E-peen isn't getting us farther as a community.  I don't care if you are fighting level 9999 infested.  Read MY posts.  I'm not asking for nidus to be 100% invincible.  I'm asking this simply right here.  Please read, and re-read as many times as you need:

IF nidus has less than 15 Stacks, Then if he gets put into bleedout his stacks don't get reduced to 0. (as 7 stacks is not enough to Proc his passives 15 stack cost)

IF nidus has 15 or more stacks as it is right now and his health pool is reduced to 0 then subtract the needed 15 as normal.

 

How hard is that to comprehend for some people.  I'm not asking for 100% invincibility, im not asking for anything crazy.  I'm just asking for a QoL and there are several people trying to brag when there is no point.  It's truly funny, and a little sad.

Edited January 17, 2017 by achromos

[Xekrin]

8 hours ago, achromos said:

IF nidus has less than 15 Stacks, Then if he gets put into bleedout his stacks don't get reduced to 0.

I didn't bother reading all 3 pages or anything but honestly if you are fighting enemies that can one shot you and you have less than 15 stacks when someone goes down, then something is really one.  Why?  One shotting you means it is highly unlikely THEY are dying very quickly, which means you should be getting stacks just fine, even if your team mates are clearing the room its going to take a minute.

Your scenario where a team mate just cleared an entire room then got killed by a bombard which then dies before you arrive, you start to revive him, have another enemy show up and one shot you is so situational that the likelihood of that exact scenario replaying itself is quite small.  

You have two  options here,  Either attempt a revive and accept you may die and lose 14 or less stacks or say to hell with that guy who kills everything anyway and doesn't leave any for you before you can even get 15 stacks in a mission where one of the tankiest frames in the game is getting one shot.

Your arguments are moot, I did read the OP and a few of your responses so please don't do the "read my replies until you understand them" thing because it doesn't matter.  You may lose under 14 stacks if you go into bleedout, yes, but they are easily re-obtained.  

You say this is a QoL change but it isn't.  2 of your abilities do not use energy, that is a dstinct difference that sets Nidus apart, what does this mean?  It means there should be penalties that other frames do not experience.  Simple as that.

It is up to the player to decide which is more important, to read the situation and make the choice.  As a great fictional man once said, sometimes you gotta roll the hard 6.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

You say this is a QoL change but it isn't.  2 of your abilities do not use energy, that is a dstinct difference that sets Nidus apart, what does this mean?  It means there should be penalties that other frames do not experience.  Simple as that.

Would you like for all of your frames to go down to 0 energy every time they enter bleedout? How about requiring that they cast their 1 and 2 at least once before using their 3 and 4 after being revived by players? Because based on what you are saying, that is exactly what is happening to Nidus when he enters bleedout: his alternate energy mechanic is completely drained, and he is required to use his 1 and 2 before using his 3 and 4. Sure, that may be normal for him, but it is very annoying to build up 10-12 stacks and then get downed before you can target a good candidate for his 3 or a good location for his 4 and therefore lose all the prior work.

[Xekrin]

27 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Would you like for all of your frames to go down to 0 energy every time they enter bleedout? How about requiring that they cast their 1 and 2 at least once before using their 3 and 4 after being revived by players?

If you are asking if I want all frames to have Nidus' mechanics then the majority answer is yes, with a few exceptions there are a great many frames that would benefit strongly from getting the 'Nidus Touch'.

 

29 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

his alternate energy mechanic is completely drained, and he is required to use his 1 and 2 before using his 3 and 4

This was already answered but I'll say it again (probably for the 3rd or 4th time) use your 3 and/or 4 first.  See you aren't going to make an argument that will get me and likely a multitude of others to agree with this.  You have about 15 seconds from the time a team mate goes down to ensure you will not go down as well when you revive them.  This is true for all frames.

You may lose stacks but you retain your energy, if you go down and are revived then you will be using your 1 and 2 immediately after anyway.  There is no difference there.

Fact is, at full strength Nidus does amazing damage, has amazing CC and can withstand 'dying' 6 times with no ill effects, and since you can rebuild stacks continuously, after the 15th stack you are effectively immortal.  There has to be some sort of balance here and this is it in my opinion.  It isn't a huge sacrifice.

The only solution I can offer is don't go down.  Because you have the tools and abilities you need not to do so.  

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 1/13/2017 at 5:46 AM, LittleArachnid said:

Also the OP comes across as quite aggressive and pushy in their opinion even when others are making fair points.

 

They werent making fair points, they either werent reading or misunderstanding the issue in the op.

 

He feels Nidus shouldn't lose all 14 stacks in BLEED OUT state, nothing he stated said or implied death.

 

He gave a situation in which using 3 wasnt possible i.e. a cleared room and as hes rezzing an ally with 14 stacks an enemy wanders in an ohkos him causing all 14 stacks to vanish in BLEED OUT.

In that situation 3 wouldnt work because NO ENEMIES WERE AROUND AT THE TIME OF REVIVNG a fallen ally.

 

I feel its a valid complaint, not an end all be all but valid.

 

 

Personally (when playing on pc) if im ever at 14 or less and someones in bleedout its me > them any day all day.

 

Op i understand the underlying issue but again let me put emphasis on you > weak links, make sure you are safe or have something to defend you while rezzing.

 

A limbo will not try to save you outside the rift.

 

A vauban will not try to save you without his 3 or 4 locking down the map etc.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 1/13/2017 at 4:17 AM, achromos said:

You aren't helping.

You can still get one-shot in higher end content.  Then you lose everything without any sort of gain or purpose.  Secondly, if you have a idiot team-mate shooting everything in sight your 3 doesn't work.  Thirdly... his 4 isn't a end-all-be-all for CC or keeping you alive in high-end content.

If your idiot teammate is able to take out every enemy super quickly, then you got no problem reviving him. Plus if he's able to mop up a room before you can cast a single ability, then I'm gonna tell you straight up, your not in one shot territory. Nidus' second ability is where the real cc is,  and I'd use it wisely.

[Steadfast]

If at any point you have to question reviving a teammate, just let them die. They should be more careful. They got 4 lives, hope they better use the next ones.   99.99999% of the time, I only go down when helping someone who shouldn't have gone down. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Steadfast

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

1 hour ago, Steadfast said:

If at any point you have to question reviving a teammate, just let them die. They should be more careful. They got 4 lives, hope they better use the next ones.   99.99999% of the time, I only go down when helping someone who shouldn't have gone down. 

Unless I'm unable to reach a squadmate, I'll always try to revive them personally speaking. Mind you if someone's a twit and lets me die or is rude I won't want to revive them au

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

They werent making fair points, they either werent reading or misunderstanding the issue in the op.

He feels Nidus shouldn't lose all 14 stacks in BLEED OUT state, nothing he stated said or implied death.

He gave a situation in which using 3 wasnt possible i.e. a cleared room and as hes rezzing an ally with 14 stacks an enemy wanders in an ohkos him causing all 14 stacks to vanish in BLEED OUT.

In that situation 3 wouldnt work because NO ENEMIES WERE AROUND AT THE TIME OF REVIVNG a fallen ally.

I feel its a valid complaint, not an end all be all but valid.

Personally (when playing on pc) if im ever at 14 or less and someones in bleedout its me > them any day all day.

Op i understand the underlying issue but again let me put emphasis on you > weak links, make sure you are safe or have something to defend you while rezzing.

A limbo will not try to save you outside the rift.

A vauban will not try to save you without his 3 or 4 locking down the map etc.

 

 

His aggressive way of pushing the point can disguise or not be completely seen by readers even me in some ways. Any experienced warframe player will know what to do when they're in that near death, escape the situation or drop a health restore etc. On that topic of reviving, one should only revive when they are able to without dying, sometimes I've midjudged and had sapping ospreys down me whilst thinking I could beat them.

[ObviousLee]

On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 2:47 AM, achromos said:

Exactly my point,  then everyone and their grandmother wanted to immediately measure their e-peens without actually reading

 

no frame loses all their energy upon entering bleed out.  Stacks are used as a new energy resource so why are they being subtracted when the passive isn't coming into play?  Like I said in the title the 15 cost for a free instant revive is fine.  It's just annoying to have to worry about going down and losing the 14 stacks.

 

people can keep crying about his 4 but no amount of regen will give you back your face if a corrupted bombard or other high level unit deals one hp point more than you have.  His 3 does help but maybe the room was clear before.  Leaving you with no clear target to use your 3 on.  So you start reviving your downed ally and get shot in the back while reviving.

 

this is a example,  this isn't some deficiency on my part but just something I was stating for a example.  Was it the best?  Obviously not but the point of the topic was not to measure each other's "veteran status" but it was a attempt to get some symmetry.

 

If the room is clear of of enemies how are you getting shot in the back. . ... 

[(PSN)ocerkin]

welp, note to self, everyone wants nidus to be a bad teammate if under 15 stacks, kk ill remember that as i play nidus

[NightmareT12]

Let me get the point straight: If you play Nidus, and have less stacks than needed to trigger the Passive and you enter bleed out... They're magically consumed?

From a design stand point... What kind of sense does that make? I do really think that should be changed, yeah.

I don't see how anyone can disagree with that, it's like draining energy on Warframes when you get down without dying yet.

[TaleTeller]

Ok, to adress the Nidus stacks thing first: I don't think he should get to keep the stacks. If you wanna look at it from a "biological" point of view, the stacks are kind of like a living shield that reacts when fatal damage is taken and consume themselves to save Nidus. So it makes sense that they'd consume themselves completely to try and save you even when you can't be saved.

But let's adress something else: Nidus is not like other frames. Like everybody and their dog has pointed out since his release, he's built for endurance. Passive health regen, passive resurrection, high health and armor and abilities geared to boost those things. Yes, it sucks to lose all your stacks, but considering it's one of the only two weaknesses Nidus has - the other being he's very vulnerable when he's out of stacks - I'd say it's ok to leave it in. Nidus does not need more benefits, imo.

Now for the final thing. I'm curious OP, when you play frames other than Nidus, do you let everyone die? Or do you slap Quick Thinking on everyone and judge by your energy pool whether reviving someone is worth it or not? I mean, if that's your playstyle and it makes you happy, more power to you, but I find it very disagreeable.

I usually try to prioritize reviving allies, because I know I'd want them to revive me too. Nobody likes losing a revive. Usually I try to drop some CC or kill the big enemies, maybe stop in the middle to drop more CC and bullets and resume reviving. Now, if you're down to your last revive, or your teammate is on the other damn side of them map, then it makes sense not to revive them, but otherwise you should really try to go the extra mile and think how you can make the situation work for your, and everybody else's, benefit.

[achromos]

On 1/17/2017 at 3:26 PM, ObviousLee said:

If the room is clear of of enemies how are you getting shot in the back. . ... 

Obviously unless it's the last enemy in a exterminate... more spawn in and reviving is not instantaneous unless you are using vazarin.  So there is time for someones luck to go south.

On 1/18/2017 at 7:40 AM, TaleTeller said:

Ok, to adress the Nidus stacks thing first: I don't think he should get to keep the stacks. If you wanna look at it from a "biological" point of view, the stacks are kind of like a living shield that reacts when fatal damage is taken and consume themselves to save Nidus. So it makes sense that they'd consume themselves completely to try and save you even when you can't be saved.

But let's adress something else: Nidus is not like other frames. Like everybody and their dog has pointed out since his release, he's built for endurance. Passive health regen, passive resurrection, high health and armor and abilities geared to boost those things. Yes, it sucks to lose all your stacks, but considering it's one of the only two weaknesses Nidus has - the other being he's very vulnerable when he's out of stacks - I'd say it's ok to leave it in. Nidus does not need more benefits, imo.

Now for the final thing. I'm curious OP, when you play frames other than Nidus, do you let everyone die? Or do you slap Quick Thinking on everyone and judge by your energy pool whether reviving someone is worth it or not? I mean, if that's your playstyle and it makes you happy, more power to you, but I find it very disagreeable.

I usually try to prioritize reviving allies, because I know I'd want them to revive me too. Nobody likes losing a revive. Usually I try to drop some CC or kill the big enemies, maybe stop in the middle to drop more CC and bullets and resume reviving. Now, if you're down to your last revive, or your teammate is on the other damn side of them map, then it makes sense not to revive them, but otherwise you should really try to go the extra mile and think how you can make the situation work for your, and everybody else's, benefit.

I usually am one to risk a lot to try and rescue a team-mate,  I don't use QT because that just stunlocks you but, yes.  I usually play Chroma, or another tanky frame in which you can naturally take a hit or two even against enemies that are around level 120.  I don't expect nidus to be Chroma, that's not the point of my post.  The point of my post which everyone wants to constantly trying to change the narrative of is that I just want it to not remove stacks just for going into bleedout.  On death? Yes, but once i'm in bleedout i might as well die.

[hukurokuju5]

the  only flaw nidus has is that if you lose all stacks when playing high level content, it cab be easy to be unable to bounce back because of the time it takes to get even 1 stack back in order to press 3.  

this is even more hilarious when you get jumped by 8 kuva guardians

[redwizard12]

I was playing todays sortie 3 as nidus and I could not get any more than 5 stacks before downing and when I got 1 I used my link(90% damage reduction) and even THEN the raptor or a $&*^ detron crewman decided to come around the corner and decimate me in seconds (raptor in less than 2) generaly before I can react and hit them with my sancti tigris (built for sheer damage and 2 if not 1-shots most sortie level enemies) the only real protection I could get from downing was from the mag using magnetize in my squad. I do have max vitality on so max health isn't the problem

and like some other people in here who have made a link to energy I think that it is VERY much like a secondary energy that only nidus can control and use(like limbo is the only one who can control the rift) (HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION START)imagine if you had a LOW rank QT and you got hit by a lvl100 corrupted bombard as a nova(or other energy dependent frames) and you downed(HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION END) what happens to your energy? its gone. thats how a nidus feels when he downs with <15 stacks. he loses ALL his stacks IN BLEEDOUT not DEATH. losing all stacks to DEATH is fine but not BLEEDOUT. and continuing on that point I would not mind a 1-3 stack loss on bleedout with <15 stacks

BTW I run with a 130%duration 145%range 75%effeciency and 259% strength with rage build

Edited January 26, 2017 by dynomitedestryr
additional info

[Whatever_desu]

On 1/13/2017 at 1:17 AM, achromos said:

Thirdly... his 4 isn't a end-all-be-all for CC or keeping you alive in high-end content.

Actually, with the removal of Ravenous' auto-detonation, it's essentially useless for CC (and DPS and stack-building, for that matter).

[SenorClipClop]

Lotus forbid that a Warframe has a weakness.

[Chewarette]

6 hours ago, dynomitedestryr said:

I was playing todays sortie 3 as nidus and I could not get any more than 5 stacks before downing and when I got 1 I used my link(90% damage reduction) and even THEN the raptor or a &#036;&amp;*^ detron crewman decided to come around the corner and decimate me in seconds (raptor in less than 2) generaly before I can react and hit them with my sancti tigris (built for sheer damage and 2 if not 1-shots most sortie level enemies) the only real protection I could get from downing was from the mag using magnetize in my squad. I do have max vitality on so max health isn't the problem

and like some other people in here who have made a link to energy I think that it is VERY much like a secondary energy that only nidus can control and use(like limbo is the only one who can control the rift) (HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION START)imagine if you had a LOW rank QT and you got hit by a lvl100 corrupted bombard as a nova(or other energy dependent frames) and you downed(HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION END) what happens to your energy? its gone. thats how a nidus feels when he downs with <15 stacks. he loses ALL his stacks IN BLEEDOUT not DEATH. losing all stacks to DEATH is fine but not BLEEDOUT. and continuing on that point I would not mind a 1-3 stack loss on bleedout with <15 stacks

BTW I run with a 130%duration 145%range 75%effeciency and 259% strength with rage build

You know that empowered Raptor just one-hits everything without really caring about your Warframe or your Defensives ?

It was a Physical enhancement Sortie. The only solution to withstand Physically Enhanced Raptor is to kill him faster than he does.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Chewarette

[taiiat]

you kind've have a point, but it's in line with all other Warframes, so it's hard to complain.

besides, every other Warframe has to make an educated tactical decision as to whether Reviving will be successful or will be death in any given situation. and so does Nidus.

Edited January 26, 2017 by taiiat

[redwizard12]

17 hours ago, Chewarette said:

You know that empowered Raptor just one-hits everything without really caring about your Warframe or your Defensives ?

It was a Physical enhancement Sortie. The only solution to withstand Physically Enhanced Raptor is to kill him faster than he does.

I also mentioned the detron crewmen that where real &#036;&amp;*^s before we even encountered the raptor in the mission

[Chewarette]

5 hours ago, dynomitedestryr said:

I also mentioned the detron crewmen that where real &#036;&amp;*^s before we even encountered the raptor in the mission

Yes, everything in a "Physical enhancement" Sortie 3 is a nightmare. That's some OS-fest if you get hit by nearly anything