Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

From the video it appears as though Limbo does a 3m to 4m dash when entering or exiting the rift.

As long as you're in the rift before bypassing security lasers you should be alright.

Hm. Well, I'll just have to wait and see how it works out. I suppose there's always the option to face a safe wall and dash at it to enter the rift! 

[ChameleonBro]

On 2/20/2017 at 7:32 PM, Xekrin said:

I don't know if this has yet to be said, but it is far too early to worry IMO.  They very plainly stated it being a WIP and they have no where near worked out the kinks or the mechanics on how the restrictions are going to affect us.  They gave a vague reference of having some kind of limit to what can be frozen and possibly barring Limbo from the void for a short duration when its exceeded.

Until we get the specifics there really isn't much to go on.  She didn't even get around to testing more than a single duration build.  Your concerns are certainly valid based solely on what you saw and heard, just keep in mind they aren't set in stone quite yet.

You have a good point. And yes my concerns are just that the limit will be so low that you will get punished all the time. Or to be more precise I am worried that the punishment will be too much for Limbo to handle.

[ChameleonBro]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Zashukitsune said:

My main issue is the simple fact that an infested swarm (as the major example) will almost certainly fill up his maximum quota just by running headlong into cataclysm.

I like the concept, I want to see it implemented some way (like maybe just slowing enemies in the rift or stealing health from them?) But this way feels like it can ONLY hinder him compared to his other abilities.

If the limit is big enough it shouldn't be a problem. But the infested are a great example where his limit can get exceeded which worries me.

[ChameleonBro]

9 hours ago, Grayscale_Lord said:

I guess the limit is there due to the projectile amount in the world. Here is an old bug which was fixed already. Just look how fast the Fps starts to drop and that is quite good PC:
 

 

I see what you mean. I am pretty much a toaster user myself. Though those are projectiles not enemies. You could run a single shot weapon like the Tonkor or Lex Prime. I know not everyone would do it but the limit will be there to stop players from abusing this abiliity. My only problem is that the punishment might be too much.

[ChameleonBro]

6 hours ago, malekas said:

Too many people are equating limit with the proposed overload, they are not the same thing.

 

I fully support a limit and understand why that limit needs to be in place. I am vehemently against the overload mechanic because it will cripple Limbo. 

That is true. I know we can't talk about this right now because we don't know what the limit will be but it is still worrying that the enemy limit will be a problem

[PsiWarp]

39 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

That is true. I know we can't talk about this right now because we don't know what the limit will be but it is still worrying that the enemy limit will be a problem

Indeed. The rework makes high Power Range quite viable due to AoE Banish, Rift Surge Void Lightning/Mini-Cataclysms, and Cataclysm allowing looting inside it... but all those great synergies go out the window due to Stasis' limit and its severe penalties for exceeding it.

[SenorClipClop]

Limbo is getting a spicy new rework. This is exciting, especially with his brand new abilities. However, I have one concern about his #2 power, the one with which he stops time in the Rift Plane:

How is Limbo's time-stopping going to work when there are multiple Limbos in the squad?

It's a toggle, and as far as we know there will still only be a single Rift Plane in any given mission. Will having more than one Limbo affect another Limbo's actions in team play?

Edited February 21, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[PsiWarp]

12 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Limbo is getting a spicy new rework. This is exciting, especially with his brand new abilities. However, I have one concern about his #2 power, the one with which he stops time in the Rift Plane:

How is Limbo's time-stopping going to work when there are multiple Limbos in the squad?

It's a toggle, and as far as we know there will still only be a single Rift Plane in any given mission. Will having more than one Limbo affect another Limbo's actions in team play?

Good question. I hope they work out multiple Limbos scenarios too to avoid trolling and exploits, considering there can be lots of complex interactions between Limbo, his allies, enemies, and objects. Here's what I would like if I am playing as Limbo and there's another gentleframe in my squad:

Banish

• Banish from another Limbo will never unbanish me, regardless of how I got into the Rift (via my own Rift Dash or Banish from another Limbo).
• Banish from another Limbo can apply to me if I was in the Material Plane. I can use Rift Dash or backflip to cancel his Banish buff on me, therefore exiting the rift.
  • This is important because of how the Haven augment works, so friendly Limbos can heal me. Of course, we'll have to see if it changes after the Augment Audit.

Stasis

• Assumption: Stasis can universally affect enemies and projectiles in the Rift, which means it can affect enemies and projectiles inside other Limbos' Banish, Rift Surge pockets, and Cataclysm (they are still considered inside the Rift after all).
• The following suggestions assume that the cap on the number of enemies and projectiles frozen is universal for all Limbos instead of per player.
  • Comment: We could really use a visible UI counter to let all Limbos in a mission know just how many enemies and projectiles are in the Rift at one time, and how close we are to reaching the cap so we can all coordinate.
• Multiple Stasis from Limbos are allowed to be active simultaneously. But, to preserve control for each Limbo player, the interactions will change a bit.
  • Enemies and their projectiles will remain frozen as long as one Stasis is still active. Doesn't matter whose Limbo is using it.
  • If multiple Stasis are active, then MY Stasis controls MY projectiles. I turn it on, my projectiles freeze in time, I turn it off, they resume flight. This ensures that I can dictate what my projectiles do as long as I plan on using Stasis.
    • If I don't use Stasis at all, then other Limbos control my projectiles' time. Same situation if other Limbos don't use Stasis, but I do.

Rift Surge

• Assumption: Rift Surge applies a debuff on enemies inside the Rift. I will assume that this debuff is like Molecular Prime, amplifying all damage by 200% flat.
• Like Molecular Prime, multiple Rift Surge debuffs will not stack on enemies. Whoever first activates Rift Surge applies their modded effects to enemies.
• Rift Surge mini-Cataclysms will belong to the player that used Rift Surge on enemies.
  • Comment: hopefully there will be some way to close all mini-Cataclysms belonging to me with the press of a button.

Cataclysm

• Comment: pretty straightforward interaction so no changes needed here. Since we saw in the Devstream that players can pick up items inside Cataclysm, part of its trolling aspect has already been addressed. Now we just need to be able to hold onto datamasses and power cells, activate objects inside Cataclysm, and not be forced out of a hacking session!

[Echorion]

3 hours ago, Delamir said:

Because Limbo actually has a skill cap, than brainlessly spamming 4 on frost? xD

Which can make them fun; but there is no reason why a character should not be both fun and effective. Players shouldn't have to make that choice.

It is too early to tell but the rework looks like it makes them much more fun and accessible, while making them a bit more viable- but I am skeptical it will make them viable enough.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Echorion

[Delamir]

6 minutes ago, Echorion said:

Which can make them fun; but there is no reason why a character should not be both fun and effective. Players shouldn't have to make that choice.

It is too early to tell but the rework looks like it makes them much more fun and accessible, while making them a bit more viable- but I am skeptical it will make them viable enough.

I was busting your balls :P

But i see your point there, but i don't agree. Limbo now is not a team frame, nor will he be after the rework. I like the current Limbo, but the rework is going to make him way more reliable in late game. I'm not saying he is not going to be functional with a team, but the whole interaction with the rift is not really team friendly, and there is nothing new about that in the rework. 

He is going to have CC, and you dont get blown up when you put your 4 down, which is what was needed for him, and i really look forward to. (just to make a quick recap)

All in all i just couldnt hold back when i saw your comment :3

 

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Delamir said:

I was busting your balls :P

But i see your point there, but i don't agree. Limbo now is not a team frame, nor will he be after the rework. I like the current Limbo, but the rework is going to make him way more reliable in late game. I'm not saying he is not going to be functional with a team, but the whole interaction with the rift is not really team friendly, and there is nothing new about that in the rework. 

He is going to have CC, and you dont get blown up when you put your 4 down, which is what was needed for him, and i really look forward to. (just to make a quick recap)

All in all i just couldnt hold back when i saw your comment :3

 

I wouldn't say Limbo isn't/won't be a team frame, but rather that he isn't/won't be a PUG frame. 

In a properly organized group of people who know the plan, especially if they have voice chat or know each other well, Limbo can already have amazing team synergy, and with these changes I think he will be even more useful in that regard. 

But that's really the issue. No matter what they do, there is always the problem of Limbo being so complicated, that communication is insanely important. If they aren't a team with great communication, or just people who already know Limbo perfectly and how their squad mate is going to be using him, then you are going to run into problems. 

This is why Limbo's worst place to be is always a random public game, where people often don't even know how he fully works, and get confused. 

 

[Delamir]

True, but what i mean is to make Limbo work, you need a team build up around him. 

As you say people need to know what there is to know about him. 

Pub groups are pretty much only the most popular frames... 

I am probably not going to take my Limbo into a group, as now where he is my go to solo frame. After the rework, hes is going to be a lot stronger, and there is potential to make teamcombs with him, but it has to be with people that know how he works.

We will see how he plays when he is released. Btw i cant wait lol

[brainjelly2g0]

I have to disagree. Often, i bring Limbo into Sorties with randoms, and with little difficulty. If someone has proven they can't stay alive for very long, and rely on their powers, I tell them they're getting babysat, and they chill in the Rift and spam abilities. If its an Assassination(Kela De Thaym especially), then I let people know my Cataclysm is a safe space, and when everyone else is distracted, hit the baddie with a battery from my Rift Surged Tigris Prime, before putting them back in the regular world. Confusion can happen, but its not the worst place for him to be.

[Echorion]

1 hour ago, Delamir said:

I was busting your balls :P

But i see your point there, but i don't agree. Limbo now is not a team frame, nor will he be after the rework. I like the current Limbo, but the rework is going to make him way more reliable in late game. I'm not saying he is not going to be functional with a team, but the whole interaction with the rift is not really team friendly, and there is nothing new about that in the rework. 

He is going to have CC, and you dont get blown up when you put your 4 down, which is what was needed for him, and i really look forward to. (just to make a quick recap)

All in all i just couldnt hold back when i saw your comment :3

 

I am not upset or anything so no worries :)

Yeah I think what they are doing is good, I just don't think it will be enough to make limbo what I would personally consider viable especially for deep things. I might be wrong of course; I can't say for sure till I see it on release and the numbers are all final.

[DarkOvion]

14 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

Why would I need to watch a video about something I can just screenshot to explain it to you like this? Within my total usage being 19% cpu, 50% memory it's clear that warframe is using these computer resources the most not the network.

50% of my memory/RAM isn't even being used by warframe I've got other programs open while playing the game. 12gigs of ram and it says warframe is using 1.5gig.

If you were right that the game runs from the network and that having a Limbo use stasis for projectiles is going to be a burden for their servers then my network usage would be very high.

Multiplayer PVP has dedicated servers, Multiplayer PVE uses a host from the squad peer to peer networking so as long as the game can run it client side it wouldn't have much of an impact if any on the network usage hope this helps you understand how the game works :) 

(PVE = players vs everything)

(PVP = Player vs player)]

An explanation about networking for games can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_server

Because, in the video of the devstream, they state that it's load on THEIR servers, not player PC's.

As it's not a LOCAL thing, it's a SERVERSIDE thing.

[main_antagonist]

7 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Because, in the video of the devstream, they state that it's load on THEIR servers, not player PC's.

As it's not a LOCAL thing, it's a SERVERSIDE thing.

Then you should have no problem giving me a time specific link :)

[DarkOvion]

Just now, main_antagonist said:

Then you should have no problem giving me a time specific link :)

Yeah, I'll go watch a 1-2 hour video because you can't be bothered to.

Go to the Limbo bit, and watch from there.

But hey - you keep making angry noises and long responses based on false data because you can't be bothered to do your own research - way to validate your data man.

[main_antagonist]

8 hours ago, DarkOvion said:

Yeah, I'll go watch a 1-2 hour video because you can't be bothered to.

Go to the Limbo bit, and watch from there.

But hey - you keep making angry noises and long responses based on false data because you can't be bothered to do your own research - way to validate your data man.

Just link me to where it says it exactly? I don't see anybody else claiming this in the feedback topic, only you ... but you can't link me to it? I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I can't find it just show me where it's at where DE says "it causes server issues" and I'll agree with you.

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan @[DE]Danielle Can somebody vouch for DarkOvion's claim that the new limbo is going to burden the servers? Sounds unconfirmed to me.

Edited February 22, 2017 by main_antagonist

[Delamir]

1 hour ago, DarkOvion said:

As it's not a LOCAL thing, it's a SERVERSIDE thing.

 

1 hour ago, main_antagonist said:

Just link me to where it says it exactly?

They said that they were working it out, so the toasters could keep up, followed up by "never kill toaster"

It's NOT server specific mate, its local

Edited February 22, 2017 by Delamir

[(XBOX)Flyin junebug]

I can't wait for the new kit he's getting it seems really fun to play with plus i feel there's going to be multiple builds that work very well with him ^_^.

 

 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

11 hours ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

I have to disagree. Often, i bring Limbo into Sorties with randoms, and with little difficulty. If someone has proven they can't stay alive for very long, and rely on their powers, I tell them they're getting babysat, and they chill in the Rift and spam abilities. If its an Assassination(Kela De Thaym especially), then I let people know my Cataclysm is a safe space, and when everyone else is distracted, hit the baddie with a battery from my Rift Surged Tigris Prime, before putting them back in the regular world. Confusion can happen, but its not the worst place for him to be.

That's a problem with Limbo. Limbo players shouldn't need to explain the warframe's powers to other players. You don't do that with Nova or Saryn and so on. There should be something in game where players can actually read up on the mechanics of the rift or have some kind of custom tutorial just for Limbo.

[Cortanis]

On 2/20/2017 at 11:03 AM, ChameleonBro said:

The cap is unknown which is why it concerns me. I am just hoping they don't make the ability useless. If the limit is really big and you won't have problems using it where there are loads of enemies than I am fine with it cause at that point you can only get punished if you abuse this ability. 

That was my point as well and a huge concern. Banish is one thing, but cataclysm allows units to freely enter and exit (currently). If the time stop thing works as shown, it will mean that suddenly large amounts of targets are allowed to enter the void freely and also freely push the max units cap past the limit fairly quickly. It would effectively make every level the equivalent of trying to fill a balloon with a fire hose. As such, the cap limit needs to be addressed very seriously and the effects of breaching the cap even more so.

[(PSN)WastedKami]

  So I recently watched the 88th Devstream and I was pleased, somewhat. Now, I am a Limbo fan, but one of the things that always made me not really play him as much as I'd like to, was the fact that items couldn't be picked up in the rift (or really any interaction). I know people say that it wouldn't make sense for it to be possible because you're in a different dimension but (and this is just my opinion) it would probably make Limbo one of the most played frames and highly sought after for any type of defense, if it were possible, just something I wanted to throw out there.

  Now to the rework, FREEZING TIME, YES. YES. YES. I absolutely LOVE this so, so much. My only question is, does this affect other players as well? With Limbo, it seems his biggest problem has always been how he affects other players. I mean, let's say I'm idk, Loki or something, and I'm trying to kill an enemy (who is not in the range of Limbo) with a bow, and I back into the range of a Limbo who has stopped time, will my arrow freeze as the enemy I'm trying to kill moves freely? Also, I'm not too sure how I feel about the Void Dash, it's more agile yeah, but what if I'm just trying to move quicker, the roll has been replaced and if I try to move faster I'll keep going in and out of the Rift, that'll get kind of annoying lol, and bullet jumping isn't really that fast anyways. As for Rift Surge and Cataclysm, great job. 

  Tbh, when I first started playing Warframe I was looking for a time manipulating frame, sadly there wasn't any. In my opinion if they changed Limbo into a time frame (lol) I would be completely happy with that, though, they'd have to change his name to like Chrono or something. I'm looking forward to responses and please let me know if I've misunderstood anything! Ty! 

Edited February 22, 2017 by (PS4)Qwizical

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I see that Limbo rework in action and all I think of is...

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by (PS4)Magician_NG
grammar cleanup

[(PSN)WastedKami]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I see that Limbo rework in action and I'll think of is...

 

LMAO, same man, same.