[Update 20] Weapon Balance Pass Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

On 24/03/2017 at 11:14 PM, Rakawan said:

The old mechanic release a wave that could proc bleed damage. 

Which was also odd for a weapon with puncture.

I have no self-provided evidence because I did not use that build. I used Telos Boltace as a Kronen and relied on combos, not stacking bleed.

However I know enough about mechanics to understand that blood rush causes combo to effect critical chance and relentless combination causes increase in counter.

Regardless the weapons main strength was in stacking bleed procs. For a puncture weapon the current mechanic is still odd, but at least encourages doing other things, isntead of spamming spin attacks.

The real power of the Telos boltace for me was the auto slash proc on that slide, when using relentless combination and body count/drifting contact, I could build a x3 combo multiplier in seconds (1 slide hitting 10 enemies = 90 hits in about 8 seconds) I can see why there is a need to nerf that, but for me simply removing the automatic slash proc would have solved the problem, and saved a very interesting mechanic.

Constantly spamming spin attacks will still be a thing too, with primed reach, maiming strike, body count/drifting contact and bloodrush combined on long reach weapons like orthos or many whips, players will still squeal with joy seeing endless red crits, and many will still complain about others doing it.

Take out the auto slash proc, and the Telos boltace is only slightly better than those

(just to be clear, I am on ps4, so not seen the new mechanic yet)

[yingji]

Any slash-based melee weapon with fast attack and some range will help Relentless Combination give you a high combo multiplier in no time; that's the whole point of it. You have to sacrifice a mod for this however. There was nothing special about Telos Boltace in this regard. You'd get the same result from Ack & Brunt, for example. I sure do.

OMFG NERF ACK & BRUNT said no-one, ever.

Go figure.

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

The slide attack on the Telos boltace has (currently on ps4) an automatic slash proc on every enemy hit! As far as I know only the destresa also has an automatic slash proc effect, but it doesn't have the same AoE attack.

Even with relentless combination, other weapons will take a bit longer to build up the combo (even with high status, the chance is divided amongst the other damage types available)

[pfoo]

22 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Stacking them far beyond the limit, thereby wasting them. Max stack is FOUR. On a 2.442 multishot build, there were huge streaks of shots in a single point without detonation. The amount of waste there is staggering. With that build, a double-tap per stack should be all you need. Aiming slightly to the side would enable corrosive procs from the almost non-existent merge damage without wasting all the real damage from detonation. This person either didn't read the update notes, or is deliberately muddying the waters for drama and views.

Max stack in order to generate the vortex. As far as I know, adding more orbs to a fully-created vortex is still doing the merge damage. Soo yeah, he is "wasting" ammo because it is now less effective to stack more orbs instead of just stack4-detonate-repeat, but he made his point : stacking is doing nearly no damage to a level 100 armored enemy, and detonating a full stack is doing hardly more damage.

20 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

And Suda has a hammer. That smashes things. Smash! Think... SMASH!

Smash&Scan. Please.

21 hours ago, (PS4)Brewski_3 said:

as I imagine practically no one will change their mods/loadouts to accommodate each mission they play. I would prefer that everything be viable for high level content so unless they plan on giving us scaling, I wish they would stop "balancing" things based on low level content.

We actually could, with more weapon mod configuration instead of just A B C.

[Huanthus]

1 hour ago, pfoo said:

Max stack in order to generate the vortex. As far as I know, adding more orbs to a fully-created vortex is still doing the merge damage. Soo yeah, he is "wasting" ammo because it is now less effective to stack more orbs instead of just stack4-detonate-repeat, but he made his point : stacking is doing nearly no damage to a level 100 armored enemy, and detonating a full stack is doing hardly more damage.

Smash&Scan. Please.

We actually could, with more weapon mod configuration instead of just A B C.

Smash & Scan & Get a bodyguard for 50 seconds

Also

It would be nice to be able to change quickly from one config to the other, they allowing you to name configs is a qol well received change but still if next to the  equip upgrade appearence tab on the arsenal there was your named configs to quickly choose between configs would be awesome

[DreamsmithJane]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

And Suda has a hammer. That smashes things. Smash! Think... SMASH!

Fox only, Final Destination, no items? Kidding. I hate Fox. XD

Also, does no one else find it ironic that the Synoid version creates a synthesized specter, but the Simaris one doesn't?

5 hours ago, yingji said:

Any slash-based melee weapon with fast attack and some range will help Relentless Combination give you a high combo multiplier in no time; that's the whole point of it. You have to sacrifice a mod for this however. There was nothing special about Telos Boltace in this regard. You'd get the same result from Ack & Brunt, for example. I sure do.

OMFG NERF ACK & BRUNT said no-one, ever.

Go figure.

You're not really making this argument, are you? There's a pretty big difference between Ack & Brunt and a guaranteed bleed on every enemy in a wide radius multiple times per second. The Relentless Combination gains on old Telos Boltace were orders of magnitude greater than anything else. And due to the range, the chances of ever dropping the combo were virtually non-existent. Even if you put Weeping Wounds and Buzzkill on Ack & Brunt, you're not going to match that by throwing your shield. There is no comparison.

[yingji]

I feel like you are cleverly calling for a buff on Ack & Brunt too, in which case well played.

[DreamsmithJane]

2 hours ago, yingji said:

I feel like you are cleverly calling for a buff on Ack & Brunt too, in which case well played.

I...would not hate that. At least make the blocking mechanic more useful, yeah? Not that much elemental damage around, as it is. Unless you want to go face-tank a laser for some radiation? It sucks to me that Vaykor Sydon has a better blocking bonus than the weapons that include an actual shield.

[AzureTerra]

The Tonkor Nerf is ok aside from the absolute lack of bounce, that's the killer to it in my eyes, used to be able to bounce it up sitars and round corners now its just bad

[Synpai]

About the Harpak...and other harpoon weapons

The harpoon ability is pretty silly and ineffective to use and should be scrapped. Why pull the enemy when you can kill it, if you can't kill it one slam attack knocks them down and allows for a quick finisher.

It would be better if these guns either:

*Alt-fire to shoot bolts that impale and cripple the enemy which could be detonated by ally shots

*Shot a field of caltrops to damage/slow enemies over time

*Or just free forming chains, similar to tesla so that we can just spider man our enemies to ceilings or trip them.

[(PSN)Viper4505]

DE have you considered making a continuous prime weapon? You guys haven't made one sense you guys started priming suff also i would like to see similor be turn into automatic but damage will half to be neft maybe just saying this because i like using automatic weapons 

[Air-mage]

(telos) boltace is still good, but the new passive could've been more fun, and the cd doesn't makes much sense to me

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

23 hours ago, Air-mage said:

(telos) boltace is still good, but the new passive could've been more fun, and the cd doesn't makes much sense to me

The current nerf to the Telos Boltace would be more fun if:

1.  The "Blast" mechanic that follows "Storm Path" is removed completely. 100 Impact on Storm Path is fine, the vacuum effect on Storm Path is fine. The follow-up slide attack to knockback enemies with Blast after Storm Path is not.
2. The complete removal of the 8 second cooldown time on Telos Boltace's special effect on slide attack.

[predalien107]

Can DE please reduce the Telos Boltace ability cooldwon time to 3-5 seconds instead of 6? Right now 6 seconds feels like a stretch and it is very irritating to be caught without it when you slide. Or at least make the stagger effect when you vacuum enemies in last longer, it feels almost like suicide when I vacuum in multiple enemies.

Edited April 2, 2017 by predalien107

[Onokosha]

DE please revert your recent hotfix changes on the Similor weapons.
Changing the crit chance to be almost non-existent makes the weapon unusable for against enemies above level 30.
What we want is to be able to use our unique weapons in high level missions, not make weapons enjoyable weapons unusable.
There is no need to over-nerf a unique weapon just because some players decide to build full power strength mirages. 
Those same players that exploited this will simply pick up another weapon that does works just as good while we're left with the remains of a once good weapon.

[angryjanitor]

Synoid Simulor has been nerfed into the trash bin. Whoever was in charge of "balance" didn't do a proper job at all.

[(PSN)HeadHuntingPanda]

The Tonkor nerf was ok but self damage? Really? why are people using common sense on a ninja alien video game? they should just make launchers non self damage so other people would actually use it instead of just the tonkor before... only reason people use tonkor is because it didnt have self damage, imagine if the rest of the launchers were treated that way then we will have actual variety...

what i have observed reading the forums for quite some time now is that the sole purpose of people asking for nerfs is because they can't accept that other people are better than them or know the games mechanics and cries to DE for nerfs because there favorite weapons arent killing the enemies faster than there teammates... in my opinion if we were gonna get another weapon balance update DE should try to make all weapons viable so we could have actual variety instead of just mastery fodders.... i got alot of rants to say but thats just my opinion can be a fact if you are open minded...

[Huanthus]

20 hours ago, Onokosha said:

DE please revert your recent hotfix changes on the Similor weapons.
Changing the crit chance to be almost non-existent makes the weapon unusable for against enemies above level 30.
What we want is to be able to use our unique weapons in high level missions, not make weapons enjoyable weapons unusable.
There is no need to over-nerf a unique weapon just because some players decide to build full power strength mirages. 
Those same players that exploited this will simply pick up another weapon that does works just as good while we're left with the remains of a once good weapon.

I dont feel neither weapon is overly nerfed they aint useless, i believe is a rushed assumption.

 

I.e for your statement that the sinulor aint useful over lvl 30

Still use it on hidron getting top dps with wf such as limbo( havent touched mirage in ages)

Also used it to complete a sortie defense solo with limbo a couple days ago, not that heavily modded either thing is that if you get used to the weapon aint that bad due to its high status chance it becomes easier to proc auras such as growing power. 

 

[Onokosha]

3 hours ago, Huanthus said:

I dont feel neither weapon is overly nerfed they aint useless, i believe is a rushed assumption.

 

I.e for your statement that the sinulor aint useful over lvl 30

Still use it on hidron getting top dps with wf such as limbo( havent touched mirage in ages)

Also used it to complete a sortie defense solo with limbo a couple days ago, not that heavily modded either thing is that if you get used to the weapon aint that bad due to its high status chance it becomes easier to proc auras such as growing power. 

 

First off limbo is similar to a mirage using it. He can gain increased damage from being in the rift, and he can pause enemies until he has about 50 orbs floating around before he detonates. 

Just because the weapon seems to be good/OP with warframes that can boost the weapon damage (ex. Chroma, Rhino, Mirage etc) doesn't mean the weapon is good/OP. It's like saying Lato (or miter/panthera [pre-buff]) were great weapons just because Rhino can use his buff to boosts its damage output over 3 times.

Secondly, unlike most weapons after the previous nerf to aoe weapons in which their aoe damage can not headshot enemies, this weapon is at a huge disadvantage without the crit chance since the orbs merely bounces off of the enemies head. The main source of damage which is now on detonation will never headshot unlike every other weapon in the game.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Onokosha

[Dalicris]

Dear DE,

You have nerfed 2 weapons that were quite obscure and unpopular already, which are my 1st favorite secondary and 2nd favorite melee, so I was quite upset, especially considering they were definitely not op nor did they hurt anyone. Sancti Castanas and Sarpa.

Sancti Castanas now explode in a succession, making them much weaker for stealth kills as only the first Castana gets the stealth bonus since it alarms the target before the rest explode.

Sarpa now fires one, singular shot instead of bursts of 4-5, making its fire attack pretty worthless, big shame considering the amount of them in the best stance mod for gunblades, Bullet Dance.

Please, please, please make them as they were as, like I said, they weren't op in the first place: I have 2-3 formas on both and I could only effectively deal with lvl 40-50 mobs with them. Now I have trouble with lvl 30 mobs... This is especially weird 'cause I've looked around and haven't seen the changes documented in any updates or hotfixes.

Thanks a lot in advance! Love your game! <3

[Huanthus]

14 hours ago, Onokosha said:

First off limbo is similar to a mirage using it. He can gain increased damage from being in the rift, and he can pause enemies until he has about 50 orbs floating around before he detonates. 

Just because the weapon seems to be good/OP with warframes that can boost the weapon damage (ex. Chroma, Rhino, Mirage etc) doesn't mean the weapon is good/OP. It's like saying Lato (or miter/panthera [pre-buff]) were great weapons just because Rhino can use his buff to boosts its damage output over 3 times.

Secondly, unlike most weapons after the previous nerf to aoe weapons in which their aoe damage can not headshot enemies, this weapon is at a huge disadvantage without the crit chance since the orbs merely bounces off of the enemies head. The main source of damage which is now on detonation will never headshot unlike every other weapon in the game.

Thing is that was only an example i use em with any warframe that benefit of a status weapon as i said also use it with ember and other frames not only the ones that boost damage.

That aside i still see my simulor crit a lot and dont feel the damage fallout to much.

Ah and btw this is a weapon rebalance the idea behind it was to downsize the number of overpowered weapons to enable a larger pool of choice.

[EinheriarJudith]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:31 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping, so the Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.

the other launchers dont insta kill me if im slightly inside of explosive radius. self damage not self kill. needs a rebalance

Edited April 4, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[McSh4d0w5]

First thing I wanna say is, that I am not very happy with the weapon balancing at all. I got 6 Formas and a Catalyst at my Tonkor :( that make 140 platinum gone or in my case 6 days of waiting for formas. Another thing is I do not really get the point at nerfing weapons. In my opinion it would be MUCH better to buff under-/never-used weapon like it was done for the Sobek for example (I really like that "Every weapon has its own feature"-Stuff). Furthermore I cannot understand people who say that a weapon is overpowered, cause I want a weapon to be strong if I invest in it(to stay at my example: I have leveled my Tonkor 7 times plus I put upgrades worth 140 platinum on it. Why should there be any reason that this weapon is not strong then? - ok raged enough now). I know there are weapons which won't be very strong even if you put this amount of platinum and time.

In conlusion let me say: "Stop nerfing and start buffing."

[xS0nico]

On 3/4/2017 at 9:45 PM, (PS4)HeadHuntingPanda said:

The Tonkor nerf was ok but self damage? Really? why are people using common sense on a ninja alien video game? they should just make launchers non self damage so other people would actually use it instead of just the tonkor before... only reason people use tonkor is because it didnt have self damage, imagine if the rest of the launchers were treated that way then we will have actual variety...

 

No.

Edited April 4, 2017 by xS0nico

[Zyron99]

The Telos Boltace nerf package was ridiculous.  I spent 40 plat on it, 4 forma, and an Orokin Catalyst.  It was made useless for what I wanted it for (breaking containers) and in return for wasting my money and time I got 1 forma and a booster I didn't get to use because the UI is completely screwed up and the game hurts to play now.  That seems fairly ridiculous to me.

Beyond that, I've tried using the TB and the new mechanic is awful, I'd rather not have it at all.  I know a lot of people are going to say I'm playing wrong, but I slide attack a lot while I'm moving, to navigate corners and break containers (I didn't use macros before and I don't now so this is ingrained in my play style).  This means that my ability is constantly on cooldown any time I would actually want to use it.  The mechanic itself is interesting except the giant cooldown makes it completely useless.  Even worse is if you trigger the first ability it has a timer and if you wait for that timer a bit then use the second ability it gives you the full cooldown so instead of 8 seconds, or whatever it is, the cooldown can be closer to 15-20 seconds.  *** EDIT: Why isn't the cooldown just started after the pull in and give a timer for using the second ability?  This feels like it is designed to pull in and push out the enemies, but in practice that's not what we got, especially if we spin attack early while moving around. End edit***  Also, why doesn't the second ability break containers?  It's throwing out this vortex attack that just doesn't interact?  It also feels like the pull-in would also break containers, but that's more understandable.

I was playing every day before this update with the plan on buying more platinum once I got a good coupon.  Since this update nerfing the one weapon that made the boring medallion missions playable and the painful UI I've played maybe 2 or 3 days and got a -75% coupon I'm not going to use because why would I pay money for something that the developers can just ruin and waste all your money any time they feel like it with no real recompense or recourse?

Edited April 4, 2017 by Zyron99
Add extra content