Are some nerfs or asked for nerfs unreasonable or shouldn't have happened

[Madway7]

It's a complicated issue which I think stems from both DE not being clear on what what the players are supposed to be capable of acomplishing and the players interpreting endless endurance missions as endgame content meaning that's what they're supposed to be able to do without so many (increasing) restrictions on how to achieve their goals.

(Eg stealth gas nerf)

As far as I see, there is no endgame, there are just varied reasons for playing the game. Mine being to use the game as a distraction from my largely meaningless life. Wether it be fashionframe, murdering enemies or masochistally challenging yourself to the point of losing rewards on suicide runs (ultimate endurance). I find no issue with it, whatever makes you feel good while playing.

The main issue regarding nerfs vs buffs  comes from what a player enjoys about the game and when that enjoyment interferes with another players enjoyment.

Which also comes down to a subjective matter of what a player finds fun about the game in the first place.

Also an issue is the idea of a constantly changing game. How can we hope to balance a game where changes constantly come? Of course DE can manage that, but it takes time and resources away from them while they're focussing on what's next on the horizon.

Sure they can balance everything fit for the game atm. With the issue of what levels? What enemies are supposed to be tough, how tough? are some weapons supposed to be objectively better than others? Are we supposed to have any weapons/frames that can blast through lv300 enemies at all? Regardless of their downside?

And going back to what I started with in that paragraph. For how long can things remain balanced if they need to keep adding new weapons, frames and missions/enemies over time while keeping in mind that new things have to be good enough to use to drive sales and yet not be too strong or fall too generic in the lineup of what we have at that point.

What's better? Buffing things to a point where they are all usuable to some vague point where we're unsure if that point will always be worthwhile to reach or nerfing things that reach too high of a point that we're not supposed to teach in the first place?

I know those aren't mutually exclusive, but balance is achieved by considering both in mind.

Again... it's a complicated issue.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

They would save themselves a lot of trouble by testing things more than they clearly do and bringing changes quickly rather than take so long that people get used to it. The tonkor for example was sold on the fact it didn't do self damage, change it if you like (I'm not too much of a fan) but don't sell it on that then change it down the line. If they had released it then changed it a month or so later then fine, but changes like that after presenting a weapon as such and taking so long to changing it, no wonder people are irked by it. 

 

Also, with the lack of endgame. Weapons and skins are pretty much.. a replacement for that? In a way. Altering how a frame works or how a weapon works becomes an even bigger deal than it would be as that's really all we have.

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)AllOrNothinDays

[Zeclem]

3 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

Stfu strategy really works?? No one asked for vulkok nerf but it got nerfed anyway. 

OP items are easy baits. 

Flavor of the month strategy is not wrong but it's not ethical either. 

or just be flexible? this game always will have strong weapons.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

17 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I honestly think this whole "Everything is fine, don't touch my stuff" mentality has become a big problem in the community.

 

 

Not saying you are wrong, there are things that need to be reworked, nerfed or rebalanced which makes sense but problem here is people who jump and scream nerf at every little thing.Like Limbo just now for example, it hasn't been even 2 days and theres people screaming for nerfs which is outright ridiculous.

[(XBOX)GryffsDeadCorps]

I'm tired of Nerfs. I'm tired of a certain group of people who seem to want to tell everyone else how they should play THEIR GAME!

I'm tired of it and I don't see any indication it's going to change. What I'm pasting below is a good summary of how I and many others feel about Nerfs in a Horde Mode game. Yes Warframe is in my opinion just another Horde mode shooter, and I Loved it, but I hate seeing this game I've spent an enormous amount of my time playing, becoming less and less fun to play.

This comment I'm pasting in pretty much sums up my stance on Nerfs.

 

LeaserResael

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Posted March 24 · Report post

   On 2017-03-24 at 3:29 AM,  Zeratul81 said: 

I seriously don't get this attitude that just because someone is using a Tonkor (or any other weapon for that matter) it somehow takes away from someone elses gameplay. I mean I can understand the concern that you might feel that you are not contributing as much but it still has NEVER entered into my mind that I would want those weapons changed just because of that. I have around 1010h gameplay (according to Steam) with Warframe and I have been in countless groups where there has been a player thats setup is simply so powerfull for that particular mission that the rest of the team barely register in the stats. Somehow I fail to see this as a problem. I have seen groups with 3 Tonkor and 1 Synoid Simulor and I could not care less. Most of the time It has just meant that we got the firepower to make through this mission (typically Excavation) more easily.

 

If I were to take the Excavations as an example I am more annoyed of the people that join a public group andgo to the extraction zone after the first excavator just because they are there for the easy money. It annoys me that some peoples contribution to the excavation is to stand next to the excavator idle when they notice there a good defence there and we have no real (to my understanding) mechanism to remove these players from the game while remaining 3 of group are pulling all the weight. It also annoys me that a lot of people come there with unleveled frames and weapons and basically make it harder for others (even though this does not bother me nearly as much as people just idling, if you put the effort even with lvling your gear its fine by me)

 

But somehow the people using the Tonkor are the problem?

 

I played a long time before I even considered Tonkor. Its my go to weapon farming relics in Hieracon Excavation mission.

Its a great weapon (for me) to

• Take out groups of enemies
• Its a great weapon to get the excavator area clear as you can just shoot at the excavator and blow up the enemies next to it
• Its Explosion/Blast status also knocks down enemies that dont get instantly killed by the shot

 

For me personally I see huge problems in using this weapon where I currently use it the most (Excavation / Hieracon). Lately I have been just using my Frost on these runs to make sure that there is at least one Warframe in the group that provides some kind of protections for the Excavator. Considering the self damage change to Tonkor and using the Globe I am not sure how am I supposed to kill any mob that gets inside the globe (which they will surely do). Basically I assume that htis will mean that I wont be able to use the Tonkor inside that Globe anymore DEPENDING on how far I actually have to be from the target when I shoot it?

 

I fear that the currrent change will do exactly the same to Tonkor that I expirience with Angstrum (if I remembner the secondary weapon name correlty). Even without great mod setup the weapon will simply one shot me most of the time because of the louse accurasy and hitting random objects/npcs too close. I loved the idea of a weapon like that but the self damage on it simply took all of my interest of using it and trying to micromanage my movement and aim with a weapon. I fear that this will eventually or very fast result into the fact that I will just stop using the weapon.

 

Then again I guess I could just keep uising the Tonkor and see if the people that did not like people using Tonkor before now like ressing this Tonkor user all the time when he/she either shoots the weapon in a totally wrong place or someone accidentaly moves into the line of fire.

 

I really hope that DE takes into consideration the already voiced great ideas to Tonkor if the requirement is that self damage is there to stay. And that is to make the self damage something that is still risky (set dmg amount) but does not automatically mean death.

 

With this current planned changes I just can not see it as a good change unless the objective is to stop people from using it.

Nah man, you're ruining others' fun! 
/s

Seriously, this "nerf everything because -it's not fair-" mentality is the most absurd thing ever. I've been on plenty of missions with SynMirages and I simply helped killing what that Mirage didn't kill. There have been times where I ended up killing more than a SynMirage. So every single one saying "But I can't kill, I don't like others ruining -my- fun!" is lying, go and try, don't stay quiet on the same room as a SynMirage, it's not as if enemies came from only one spot...

The only truth here is that people's ego is so high that they want these weapons nerfed because they want to be the ones ending each mission with the highest stats. I couldn't care less if someone brings one of these combinations, I even take it as a challenge to try and keep up with them. Ultimately what I care is that we complete the mission and these people are helping with that.
The annoying ones are those who leech or stay idle NOT contributing to the mission, but why doesn't DE nerf that by letting us kick people? No, better nerf Mag, right?

Even worse is people being happy about this... look, people spend time and money on these things, you need prime mods and lots of endo/credits to get the optimal builds, go ahead and start from the very beginnin without receiving any help, let's see how fast you can get those builds. People asking for nerfs forget that there should be a thing called progression, there will always be better weapons, it doesn't matter if they nerf one or two, the next few will replace them so chasing this so called "balance" on a -PVE- game is nonsense.

Warframe is great because we are space ninja killing machines, stop nerfing everything, I don't want Warframe to become a boring tps, we're supposed to be these godly beings that kill thousands and thousands of enemies... THAT'S the fun of the game...

I know that many of the vocal Nerfers won't like this, but as I've said before, the ONLY way you will please everyone is to make a Hardcore Mode for those people and let the rest of us have fun. That is why I play this game. 

 

[Omnimorph]

On 4/4/2017 at 7:58 PM, (PS4)Ian_1493 said:

I wasnt necessarily calling out just the tonkor or simulor, My point is that this is the mentality of the community now. Nerf something because it kills mid level content, but have never taken that same weapon in a 3 hour Mot survival. DE should give us more high level content and stop ''harshly'' nerfing weapons that take us there. 

I actually agree particularly strongly with this last.  

We desperately need more high level content.  It's nice to have the option of hanging out with newbies now and then when you're levelling a weapon from zero, as well as being fun occasionally just to mow things down; and one can see the rationale (DE wants to try and ensure that all the content and tilesets they've created are enjoyed even by older players who've passed by earlier content); but at the end of the day, in a game in which a major part of what you're doing is bumping up your power, it's annoying when there are so few Alerts, Void Fissures, etc., at high level.  Sorties are nice, and fine for the casual high level player to jump in and do one in their alloted hour or so per day, but for those of us who spend more time in the game they're not enough.

I would like there be ALWAYS 100+ level Defenses, Mobile Defenses and Survivals on the go at any given time, so that I can jump in and do high level stuff whenever I want.  I'd even be willing to sacrifice some on the reward side to have this, and I'm sure other high level players who have 'nuff stuff would too.

IOW, there's the progression part of the game, but there's also the challenge/refining your skills part.  I think DE pay good attention to the former, not enough to the latter.  By now there's a huge amount of players all dressed up with nowhere (or only a few wheres now and then) to go.

We need endgame and lots of it.  The placeholder endgame that was endless has been removed, but nothing has been put in its place (again, I'm talking about incentives to team up here - and not necessarily reward-based incentives either).  DE have to do something about this situation, I feel.  Whatever plans they have for endgame, perhaps they should start hinting more, so that we have something to look forward to.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Omnimorph

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I think the should stand by what they release.put it out and leave it alone. I have lost trust in de.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

The problem is not "OP weapons/frames," it's a mix of human nature, players' preferences/play styles and the individual player's understanding (or lack of) of when and how best to use certain warframe abilities and certain weapons.

How many times have you run into a Mirage + Simulor that has the nerve to have also brought along a Zenistar? If you want 100% Damage and 100% of the kills, why would you join a public session? The problem is neither Mirage, nor Simulor, nor Zenistar. The problem is that there is a child (or an adult lacking in emotional growth) on the other end of that Mirage, who is screaming "look at me!" or "haha, I'm more powerful than you, I'm better than you, and too bad, you should have brought the same set-up!"

The developers cannot change human nature.

What they can change is which weapons actually get the pass to be included in the game and instead of nerfing weapons that many of us have sunk 4 or more forma into, they can create more missions that begin with higher level enemies and give the people screaming for nerfs a reason to play these missions.

I'm super reliant on my Synoid Simulor, because I like to roll with my Despoil Nekros solo.My favorite aspect of Warframe is going into a survival and for the first five minutes blasting open every container on the map with my Synoid Simulor. I don't even need the stuff that comes out of the containers, I just enjoy the big blast and seeing all the numbers and resources popping up on the bottom of my screen. Why should I be punished?

I feel that the people that are screaming for more challenge are being dishonest and don't play anything other than Akkad up to 20 waves or Hierarcon up to 1200 cryotic, don't even do sorties or the raid. I mean if you want challenge try bringing any warframe other than Loki, Inaros, Ivara, or Rhino to the Mot, Void, without using Naramon and last for more than 20 minutes! Go pistol only into any mission on Sedna or Eris! Honestly, why is it even on the developers to provide you with more challenge in Warframe at this point in time? I'm on PS4 and there are like a handful of missions in which I know that I can find other people playing, the rest are collecting dust! So, I've come to the conclusion that players on PS4 ,generally speaking, aren't even challenging themselves and are pretty much doing the same 5 to 10 missions over and over again. As for me, I don't feel Warframe lacks challenge and I'm only bored, because even I keep doing the same things over and over again.

 

[VentiGlondi]

I feel the change to Tonkor isn't because the whole "It removes gameplay" thing, but rather to keep it consistent with the rest of the launchers.

Unlike Synoid Simulor, that one was definitely nerfed for said reason.

That said, it would be nice if DE put a "Up to 50% EHP self damage" restriction or something, so that you don't kill yourself in one shot if you have full HP and shields, but still die if you're hurt.

 

PS: HEY, DE, YOU FORGOT TO NERF SIMULOR'S SOUND, THAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT NERF IT REQUIRED

Edited April 8, 2017 by VentiGlondi

[blackheartstar_pc]

Nerfs are always unfavorable. The goal is to become more powerful to progress to have higher damage output and nerfs work against that. I'm tied of seeing threads and post about people who just cant stand that somebody out killed them in an extermination. Catering to them makes no sense. Reduceing the capability of a weapon or frame just goes against progress, and this is coming from a player who doesn't like playing in the style of using op gear. The nerfs need to end.

[mlncholyrose]

i understand that some weapons are OP and stuff but jesus if you nerf it and literally no one plays with it obviously you f*cked up ... i cant tell when was the last time i seen an ash or tonkor or telos boltace or symulor.. this game has so many weapons and half them S#&$s garbage lol 

[Sebastianx]

On 4/4/2017 at 10:14 PM, Momaw said:

 

The only way to bring sanity to this mess is to base balance on universal facts that don't change from gun to gun, like how long a player "should" take to kill an enemy.  If you set out rules like 1.) level 100 is the highest sanctioned enemy level 2.) trash mobs should take 2 precise hits or one full second of automatic fire each  3.) mastery rank should influence weapon performance by up to +100%,   ...then it becomes easy to balance guns because you're working with numbers and scales rather than  "This gun isn't as awesome as that one" which is what we have now. 

It's a bit more complicated than that. Take the braton vs the boltor for example. Braton is a hitscan weapon while Boltor fires projectiles. At anything beyond medium ranges you will not kill enemies in 1 second of full automatic fire as you mention with the Boltor if a target moves, because most shots will miss. And this is just 1 example. Take any other 2 weapons that are similar but have slightly different firing mechanics or accuracy. 

Also, take Tonkor for example compared to other launchers. What do they all have in common? They do damage to the player as well. The only difference is that the other launchers can be triggered manually while Tonkor can't. Couple that with the 2 ammo clip the Tonkor has, the inability to  trigger the explosion at your own will AND the bounciness of grenades and you'll soon realize that allowing Tonkor to damage the user without changing it in other ways reduced the weapon from quite possibly the strongest in the game to LITERALLY the weakest weapon in the game when it comes to general usability in different scenarios. (the amounts of times I died by the Tonkor after the nerf in 1 day was more than all my deaths in Warframe in the last year)

[SilvaDreams]

14 minutes ago, BlackLordWitch said:

i understand that some weapons are OP and stuff but jesus if you nerf it and literally no one plays with it obviously you f*cked up ... i cant tell when was the last time i seen an ash or tonkor or telos boltace or symulor.. this game has so many weapons and half them S#&$s garbage lol 

You need to open your eyes more often.

I see Ash's fairly normally.

Tonkor is still used but it was in the decline because everyone was using the Spamulor.

Telos Boltas? Well the only reason people used it was because of the AOE slash attack they were macroing.

Spamulor.... Nothing has changed really I still see it getting spammed all over.

[[DE]Momaw]

51 minutes ago, Sebastianx said:

It's a bit more complicated than that.

You add subtlety and nuance after you have a solid foundation.

• Obviously weapons that are hitscan are easier to use than weapons that have projectiles, so projectiles should do more damage.
• Accuracy affects how far away you can expect most of your shots to connect with a target, especially important for semi-automatic or crit-heavy weapons.
• Ammo economy is a thing, since weapons that burn stupid amounts of ammo will require you to not lean on that weapon all the time or to reduce your damage potential by using ammo mutation.
• Burst damage versus sustained DPS need to be considered, because if the burst DPS weapon just ends all threats instantly and sustained DPS weapons expose the user to counter fire, burst needs to have realistic counters.
• Weapons that hit multiple enemies by design need to be balanced to take into account their average target count, e.g. it is wrong that the Ignis hits basically every enemy in a general direction and has above average single-target DPS for its type

... But these are all relativistic ideals.  The boltor should be stronger than the braton; fine; I agree, but you need to put actual numbers into the game at some point, and in order to arrive at those numbers we need to start building a framework of how the pace of the game and the typical TTK should work.  Is the gun that can drop a level 200 enemy in one shot overpowered, or is the gun that takes a full mag to drop a level 20 enemy underpowered?  The answer, currently, is "yes". Which isn't satisfactory or useful.

[theGlassAlice]

Ok. Let's take a look at the tigris prime. with proper build which is not cheap, it can one-hit level 145 corrupted bombard. It is probably one of the most OP weapon in the game. Did anyone ever ask for it to be nerfed? No.

Now look at the tonkor before the nerf. it's easy to get, easy to mod, easy to used, requires not much of a brain, can kill large group of enemies. And people want it to be nerf. basically, it's a noob gun.

I just did sortie yesterday, first mission is to exterminate a ship full of corpuses. A dude in the squad was using synoid simulor. We got lock-down 4 times. This is one of many examples of using powerful weapon without a proper brain.

You see, it's not about OP or not. It's about people enjoying the game. The tigris prime does not affect team mate happiness while tonkor, telos boltace and simulor do. Powerful weapon should be used wisely, not just blindly spam.

And if you suggest playing solo or recruitng squad, it will not solve the problem, rather avoiding it. So the nerfs is fair and square. The salt was good. I love tonkor, simulor, telos boltace now because I don't have to see them anymore.

Sorry for any grammar mistake. First time using forum.

Edited April 8, 2017 by kurokaze1998

[kubbi]

If nerfing is necessary then I dont see DE doing it right. They dont even nerf but rather cripple. Any weapon they nerfed went from overused to not used at all anymore.

If so then I rather have weapons staying "op" as they call it. People automatically move on to the next best thing anyway. And then people cry for a nerf for that. A pattern that will eventually lead to fun dying out completely.

[Andaius]

22 minutes ago, kubbi said:

If nerfing is necessary then I dont see DE doing it right. They dont even nerf but rather cripple. Any weapon they nerfed went from overused to not used at all anymore.

If so then I rather have weapons staying "op" as they call it. People automatically move on to the next best thing anyway. And then people cry for a nerf for that. A pattern that will eventually lead to fun dying out completely.

If they leave "op" weapons "op" and people move on to other weapons then they would have to be even more "op" then the ones they are replacing.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Lots of nerf requests are made from players who doesnt even understand or play the game properly.

The gas/stealth nerf happened with much less threads asking for it, when in realityit was WAY more powerful than the things that got nerfed. Its been a long time I dont see a request for Naramon nerfed when  in fact, you can stay in any game mode forever using naramon and a good melee.

DE has a big challenge in their hands, to balance the game as a hole. On one hand, we keep getting more powerful things every update but in the other hand, the game content doesnt require such powerful gear. Anything AOE with reasonable damage seems OP and 90% of the players who play up till 60-70 levels start asking for nerfs.

Mirage with Simulor could vaporize entire rooms but would fall off heavily against armor after a certain level. Same with tonkor. They were nerfed not because you could vaporize 200 level enemies but because in the levels where the game is played right now, it was just too much.

This is the reason why we live in nerf/buff cycle. New things will only be bought or farmed if they are powerful till people realize it is too powerful and ask for nerfs.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by (PS4)lhbuch

[(XBOX)GryffsDeadCorps]

On 2017-04-04 at 0:52 PM, Silence00 said:

Actually, I don't necessarily agree. The Tonkor murdered EVERYTHING. Low level, check. Mid tier, check, Lvl 100+... no problem. Same thing with Simulor and same thing with boltace. These weapons did so much damage that they ruined the meta. That is why the player base called for nerfs. EVERYTHING destroys low-level. I've been playing long enough to know when something is just out of line with the rest of Warframe's weapons. Those FEW that were nerfed absolutely fell into that category. 

I don't believe "The Player Base" called for Nerfs. I believe a certain segment of the massive player base called for a Nerfs and DE did what this relatively small, but VERY VOCAL group of elitist players demanded. That is a problem with this and many other games. Destiny fell prey to the Nerf it crowd and DE have done the same. 

I've given up on warframe for the time being. I see a rework of a frame that was a niche user frame (Limbo) that was talked about for months and months and when it's released, within days there were calls for a nerf! Do most players think Nerfs are a good thing, or does it just seem like a pacifier for the people who want to tell everyone else how to play and enjoy THEIR GAME? That's a problem! DE spent an enormous amount of time reworking the frame and the vocal minority already want it nerfed. I haven't even had a chance to try the rework out as it's not on consoles yet. 

I have said it before and I'll say it again...There is NO WAY to please everyone inside of one game. I don't for one second believe the majority of players are or ever have asked for Nerfs. The ONLY way to make everyone happy is to create a Hardcore version where the two groups don't have to mingle and maybe the Nerfs will finally stop. Until that day, I continue to log in daily but haven't actually played in weeks. I hope that changes, but I doubt it. I have zero interest in the Bard frame. I don't want to see or listen to that visual and auditory assault on my senses. I believe it came into being because someone saw this music application and decided it was cool and then decided to build a frame around it. I don't want to have to shoot to a beat or crouch or perform some move because the "Music"?????? says so. The game has changed and continues to change in ways that I don't find pleasing or enjoyable. I've invested a lot of money and a staggering amount of time into Warframe, maybe it's just not for me anymore?

[Zeclem]

ah, more people who claim that nerfs shouldnt exist. if you dont like nerfs then leave gaming. you all act like nerfs only exist in this game but newsflash=they exist in every game that has been ever made online. if you dont like your op weapons not being op anymore, then its your problem. when i see some op frame i will say its op. im not gonna say stupid trash like "its their gameplay so i shouldnt mess with it". not having properly balanced weapons is simply not good for the overall health of the game, you like it or not. when a few weapons is just destroying every other weapon in their category, its simply bad.

@(Xbox One)GryffsDeadCorps you think people only complained about tonkor? no. the comment you quoted implies thats how it was which couldnt be further from the truth, just like stupidity of "nerfs dont belong in a pve only game". and also its very much hypocritical to say "you shouldnt nerf our op weapons that need nerfing cus its how we play the game" then proceed to call people who leave at 5 mins mark or after a single excavator or those who afk "annoying". its their playstyle as well. nerfs will happen, as they do in literally every game that has ever been made. even diablo2 had massive nerfs and that game is known for its "no-nerf" mentality. so i'd suggest you to stop being a little whiny kid and learn to adapt when the braindead op weapons get nerfed.

[(XBOX)GryffsDeadCorps]

23 hours ago, Zeclem said:

so i'd suggest you to stop being a little whiny kid and learn to adapt when the braindead op weapons get nerfed.

You know I read your post and your opinion and while I may disagree with what you said, you completely lost me when you decided to end your post with your condescending, snide comment. Nowhere in any post I have ever made have I felt the need to resort to this type of comment and personal attack against anyone. I am not a kid, nor am I whining. I have stated my opinion that Nerfs have not made this game more enjoyable for me.  Secondly, nowhere in any of MY comments did I ever mention a particular weapon. I have a tonkor, but don't use it much, same as the other weapons mentioned in this particular series of discussions. I used a Synoid/Mirage for a while as it is the most difficult frame/weapon combo for me to be able to play. I had a traumatic brain injury and the fact that it is so visually overwhelming for me meant that I had to try and learn to overcome this as part of my rehabilitation therapy. 

As I said and have said before. You can not make everyone happy in one game mode. I suggested there needs to be a Hardcore mode so the Vocal Minority who do seem to want to tell everyone else how to play this and other games, have a place where they can go and play with other like minded players. 

[Zeclem]

20 minutes ago, (Xbox One)GryffsDeadCorps said:

You know I read your post and your opinion and while I may disagree with what you said, you completely lost me when you decided to end your post with your condescending, snide comment. Nowhere in any post I have ever made have I felt the need to resort to this type of comment and personal attack against anyone. I am not a kid, nor am I whining. I have stated my opinion that Nerfs have not made this game more enjoyable for me.  Secondly, nowhere in any of MY comments did I ever mention a particular weapon. I have a tonkor, but don't use it much, same as the other weapons mentioned in this particular series of discussions. I used a Synoid/Mirage for a while as it is the most difficult frame/weapon combo for me to be able to play. I had a traumatic brain injury and the fact that it is so visually overwhelming for me meant that I had to try and learn to overcome this as part of my rehabilitation therapy. 

As I said and have said before. You can not make everyone happy in one game mode. I suggested there needs to be a Hardcore mode so the Vocal Minority who do seem to want to tell everyone else how to play this and other games, have a place where they can go and play with other like minded players. 

im sorry im allergic to hypocricy. if you attempt to do that you will get snarky replies from me. your personal enjoyment is not more important than the games healh overall. so many people simply are enjoying it more with simulor mirages no longer being a thing. so many are enjoying after ash p4tw. and there are other frames/combos who caused even more blinding light, you couldve played those if that was the problem.

and check the comment you quoted. it directly points towards the tonkor nerf. and you said you agreed with everything on it. it was nothing but hypocritic whining that used blatant lies to provide support to a foolish argument. people complain more about the stuff it claimed that there was no complaint for them, and proceeds to say he finds it annoying cus some people have a different playstyle. if you didnt wanted my reply for it to be like it is, then make your comments yourself instead of copying other peoples. if this was the initial reply to the thread my answer would be a lot different.

you dont have to make everybody happy, cus thats simply impossible. even with that kind of a change it wouldnt change the fact that that tonkor nerf was necesarry(i dont really think simulor was a nerf, it just forced miragulor players to place their orbs and press one extra button and it got more than compensated with the status buff for the slowness it added) solely cus it was making other launchers irrelevant. if a weapon makes every other in its category irrelevant it has to be nerfed.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Zeclem