Did I miss an update that outlawed the use of Vitality & Redirection?

[Deathkgt]

11 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Once again, it took three attempts to get through today's third sortie mission.  Was it too tough?  Did I keep dying?  Did the teams have the wrong warframes?

Nope. 

Each mission had a tenno under 250 health/250 shields and each mission had a player under 360 health/360 shields.

I know what you're thinking "What's the big deal?  I do that all the time."

Well, these nimrods don't.  They constantly dropped.  Then they constantly complained about "How the Corpus hit hard."  Yeah, that tends to happen when a player has no health, no shields, in all likelihood no armor, and is playing in a sortie three mission.  So these players died every 30 seconds until they quit the missions.  Tenno who tried to revive them also died while trying to revive them.  Same thing happened in the second mission.

In the third mission, there was a nova that had no health or shields and was "stuck" the entire mission so he had no kills as well.  But at least he spammed MP.  Well, he spammed MP when he was reminded.

 

So, did DE outlaw vitality and redirection because I'm seeing more and more players with neither equipped that can't stay alive in the sorties.

 

I beginning to see more and more pug players in endless missions having less than 300 hp.  However I usually reserve judgment until they start going down often. That's when I extract earlier than normal cuz I'm not carrying/covering for their incompetence. Luckily for me, I've only seen a few instance in sorties.    

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

31 minutes ago, HaloxxFanxx said:

What i'm getting at here is that there are some frames who are meant to dish it but not take it no matter how you modify them.  As for boosts to survivability, there is also other mods like rejuvenation that can increase survivability without needing an increase to armor.

For Ash, my prefer Defensive mod is Vitality because it scale better with him. Maybe I should have added "appropriate" defensive mods. Hence, I was using Redirection in case of Inaros and Nidus. Why would one want to put a Armor mod on a low armor warframe?

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I think the only frame that I don't have Vitality, Redirection, or Quick Thinking on is Ash. I pretty much use a Smoke Screen, Arcane Trickery, and Naramon build on him anyway, so there's really nothing for me to be concerned about.

Otherwise, it's Quick Thinking for high energy frames and Vitality for low energy frames (save Mag, I have a Quick Thinking Primed Vigor concept with her). It really depends on the Frame, but I usually go Quick Thinking + Primed Flow on most of the frames I play.

[xSunx]

Nothing new at all... in a pug you will get experiended and no experiended players.

Sorties are supose for the ancients get some fun and honestly I feel good when I can help people who couldn't do it at all.

If someone is not doing his part, I have to try harder, and this challenge forces me to get better as player.

I had to try 4 times the sortie3 last time, because was harder than usual, but I was expecting for it in a pug. 3 members all the time in the ground and just me to  revive them was very good for my ego lol

[BlueShogun]

Was a real slog in this softie took Max range Nidus, not my best move as almost zero frame damage but plenty of quick CC and tankieness. Sadly my teammates struggled I ended up doing 19 revives, thank god for undying! Shoulda brought Nyx but assimilate nerf put me of in a pug.

oh and to the point absolutely take vitality almost all the time and fairly often redirection/p vigour.

Edited April 11, 2017 by BlueShogun

[Achaix]

Always be prepared for your teammates to be suicidal paper towels and your enemies to be souped up Terminators on 'roids. Inaros with Rage + Hirudo is unkillable, and some half-decent parkour skills and common sense go a long way.

Drag your idiot teammates kicking and screaming into glory. Be the tank that revives tanks.

Be... Sandaddy.

[Troll_Logic]

14 minutes ago, Achaix said:

Drag your idiot teammates kicking and screaming into glory. Be the tank that revives tanks.

I have no problem helping people.  I have no problem reviving some dude a dozen times if he's trying.

I do have a problem when someone with a high MR comes into a sortie expecting to be carried.

[Achaix]

12 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I have no problem helping people.  I have no problem reviving some dude a dozen times if he's trying.

I do have a problem when someone with a high MR comes into a sortie expecting to be carried.

Why not carry? Remind them that it is well within your power to let them rot. Make them spend their revives, leave them to sweat for a bit, then return and save their asses. It's a wonderful power trip.

[Ethermie]

Well by now i have all frames and they are all pretty well built , and none of em use redirection, i just done like that mod. Some of em use vitality, if they have more than 150 armor, otherwise i use quick thinking.

 

my plan always is not not get hit at all. so just because someone isnt using those mods dosnt mean they are just trying to get carried.

 

i did the sortie with only 2 of us and the nidus with me kept dying, its understandable as the enemy hit real hard and they do even more coz of the puncture buff. I as a octavia without any of the defense mods (not even quick thinking) only downed twice,coz i know how to play my frames and defense mods are not always the answer, as they are pretty useless at that lvl with that buff. 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

There are some situations where you're just going to get one shot anyway so it doesn't matter. Banshee is going to probably fall no matter what so if you use the slot for something else, it makes sense. Loki with his invisibility--so long as you avoid fire, poison--and honestly I don't bother using him against corpus because of the mines and how easily lag can make it impossible not to get hit for you to be any good to anyone. 

[Mak_Gohae]

14 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

eghm...

 

On ALMOST EVERY frame I use?

i dont have that mod. 

I was one of those people dying but that was because i ended up with the wrong config on the frame and i think i went in with no mods on. Anyway, i think most people dont actually pay attention to the conditions of the missions and just pop in with maxed gear. Corpus with puncture damage pretty much can kill everything minus those 4 frames with crazy armor. 

In those types of mission you just gotta CC like mad. It really has nothing to do with health or shields. 

[Rioma]

probably less about vitality and redirection and more about frame choice. 

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Sure.  After all it's just a third sortie.  That's just like a Venus mission that's a little tougher.

 

Nope.  These weren't MR3 players who happened to be playing sorties for the first time.  There players, other than an MR9, were in the high teens in MR.  They choose to go into a third sortie poorly equipped and they chose to be carried by the rest of the team.  The problem is yesterday's sortie isn't conducive to two players doing all the work while carrying two other players.

 

I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet serious money that there players weren't the type that have 7 forma on their warframes and just couldn't fit in some defensive mod because they were gearing to be all out as offensive as possible.  I'm betting they had one of two forma at the most.

 

One of the idiots that kept dropping and eventually quit was a limbo.  A limbo.  LIMBO!  How does a limbo keep dying?

 

I swear, it reminds me of the time it was the exact same third sortie but with energy reduction and some nimrod brought a nova.  

I asked "Dude, why aren't you MPing?"  

He replied "I don't have enough energy."

Me "Why in the world would you bring a squishy frame with no 4 to a third sortie?"

Him "I knew.  I wanted to bring my Nova." (or something really similar)

I saw that 3rd mission for sortie yesterday and decided to not even bother with it.  Mostly because of the things you said above.  I knew right off that mission had very high cluster F--- potential, and decided to skip it.  :D

In Truth, I mostly play Ivara and I don't use either Redirection or Vitality in my build.  That is mostly because it's just not needed with her, or maybe I should say with how I play her.  I learned a long time ago that the best strategy for being Invisible when playing in groups is to be away from the group if possible.  On other frames I'll use something like Vigor and/or Armored Agility instead.  That depends on the frame and how I plan to use them.  Quick Thinking is a waste of a mod slot IMO.  This is due to the stagger you get after being hit that leads directly to you taking a second hit that kills you. 

That being said I will give the three scenerios which usually cause my death in groups missions.  Trying to rez a fallen Tenno, being caught by crossfire because fellow Tenno being too close, and Sapping/Mutalyst Ospreys that have been aggroed by fellow Tenno.  This is not to say that I haven't died a few times from doing something stupid or getting cornered(Sapping Osprey). Just that the three I listed above are usually the case. 

[(XBOX)dude1286]

Everyone knows that CC is king in high level content here. I don't have any survivability on my CC frames because if I get hit, I'm not doing my job. Ember, Nova, Nyx, Booben and Hydroid are great examples of frame I have no survivability on. Only have survivability on Chroma, Rhino, Nekros, Nidus and Inaros.

[LazyKnight]

Those mods were pointless for that sortie. If you are health tanking puncture damage, then soon you're going to be eating dirt.

The ways not to die include things like, not getting hit, using some cc or using an ability like parasitic-link to have a very large health pool.

Edited April 11, 2017 by LazyKnight

[blackheartstar_pc]

10 hours ago, S0V3REiGN said:

 Also others view health mods as irrelevant because in high level missions you are "going to get one shot anyways" which I think it's complete BS unless you plan to fight level 200+ enemies.

Truth.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I think i missed the update where pug squads suddenly outlawed being half-decent at the game... oh wait, it's been like that since 2013 XD

in all seriousness, you should always have at LEAST a Vitality on, or if you have Primed Vigour, that can work on some glass cannons. what i don't get is why people mod for shields instead of health, when Shields don't scale off of armour and are completely bypassed by Toxin and Slash Procs. if you're gonna be brave/stupid enough to not run any survivability mods, well... I hope you're Ok with always jumping around like a cat with a firework up it's A$$, because otherwise you're gonna get killed.

also, bringing a whole Domino's worth of Health Pizzas comes in handy too.

[AzureTerra]

Whats even worse is the people who do it with a Kavat or Kubrow and then its dropping everytime something looks sideways at it.

[Coldie93]

I actually liked the sortie yesterday.  Looking forward to similarly difficult sorties on the future.

It took me 3 tries to complete that mission.  I used a irridiating disarm loki and just spam away.  My build was at base health and shield and I only bleedout twice. We got a Rhino on our squad and I swear I have to revive him every 3 mins.

I dont mind people with base health and shields as long as they know how to play their frames. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Coldie93

[brainjelly2g0]

I know how you feel OP. I went through the third sortie reviving players constantly, even a Nidus. The only reason I didn't die was because I main God(Limbo), and just danced between my revives.

[FairyTael]

18 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

eghm...

 

On ALMOST EVERY frame I use?

You waste a slot on almost every frame you use?

On the main topic, there are some frames that benefit little from Vitality, and Redirect is just...no.

There is no need to waste more than 1 slot on a defense mod.



The actual problem you have isn't people equipping or not equipping mods. It is people who use builds they find online without the experience or skill to back them up.
They don't understand many of the fundamentals with certain builds and in which areas and with what playstyles they are viable. They just click the highest rated build on a website and use it.

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, FairyTael said:

The actual problem you have isn't people equipping or not equipping mods. It is people who use builds they find online without the experience or skill to back them up.
They don't understand many of the fundamentals with certain builds and in which areas and with what playstyles they are viable. They just click the highest rated build on a website and use it.

I have to mostly agree with this statement.  This is why I playtest every frame I get just to see how it works first before trying to make a build for it.  After testing the Quick Thinking mod I found out really fast that it's pretty much a wasted mod slot.  Same with Maiming Strike.  I just don't do enough sliding attacks to justify using that mod. 

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

14 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

1)  Sure, if you stay invis all the time it helps.

2)  A player has to know what he's doing.

3)  Sometimes even an invis player gets popped and having more than the absolute minimum health and shields help.

I do use quick thinking and Prime flow so I'm usually only invis on Stealth missions

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Quick thinking is bugged. It'll kill you instantly (ie no bleedout just DEATH) if you get proc'd by viral iirc. Also that stagger will screw you over. And it's only useful on frames with high energy pools. You also need to feed back into it by restoring your lost health to get your energy back but I see way too many people just simply running around with only 2 health.

Ash has double the armor on his prime variant than his regular version so steel fiber actually is viable on his prime. I use it with rage to get energy for smoke screen, then use life-strike to get my health back.

One thing to remember about Corpus is they do puncture damage because they have beef with the Grineer, an all armor faction. Techs have a puncture cannon which will mess you up no matter what.

And vitality is always useful as a buffer for proc damage like toxin or slash because your 300 health won't survive the hit.

[[DE]Momaw]

On 4/11/2017 at 1:23 AM, Evanescent said:

They confuse builds with endgame builds. In really high level stuff for frames with meh stats you get one shot with or without RD and Vitality, so you might as well put some other mods that make your skills more effective and keep enemies CC-ed, or kill them faster so they can't shoot at you.

For late game builds, you do get a benefit out of those because they do make a difference.

This is my guess as well.

When you go into pointlessly high level missions where every enemy oneshots you, your health and shields don't matter because you can't survive taking any hit whatsoever.  These teams are running with 100% coverage of hard CC or invulnerability to avoid taking hits.  But it only works when you're in a team that is supporting this style of play. This is the kind of stuff you get when players ask "How should I mod my stuff?" and they hear "Health and shields are useless, build only for power usage", they try to apply that answer without understanding the assumptions and context that the answer was given from. If you're a famous streamer you've got hundreds of really skilled and well equipped players who want to play with you and meta the living snot out of whatever you're playing.... normal teams don't work like that.

 

On 4/11/2017 at 2:03 AM, THeMooN85 said:

eghm...

 

On ALMOST EVERY frame I use?

Quick thinking is a thing, but it's really not that amazing if you don't have huge energy capacity and a trinity to back you up. Every time it kicks in, you stagger, which means you get hit more, and it's an unreliable massive waste of energy if you don't have the rest of the infrastructure to go along with it. There's no silver bullet solution to high survivability, your options are systems of things that work together.