Harrow feedback and discussion

[Liacu]

Most/All of Harrow's abilities has the thurible animated in some way. It'd be really cool if these could act as a melee strike in addition to the abilities' normal effects, especially for his 3rd ability since it can have a significant charge time. 

Why you ask? Because I really want to hit someone with it :P 

[-CM-Zenshadow]

I think in Devstream 92 they mentioned you would be able to.

[LSG501]

17 minutes ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

I think in Devstream 92 they mentioned you would be able to.

Yeah they said something along the line of it's supposed to impact/damage enemies but it wasn't coded yet

[Jakorak]

12 hours ago, Rekkou said:

The edgelords prefer stealth though, so headshots are in fact are surprise for them

I guess you either don't stealth, or you only use melee in your stealth. Headshots are bread and butter for those that want to stealth without being tied down to melee, and Red Veil's weapons (a dagger, a bow, and a crossbow) capitalize on that

[That1Cactus]

16 hours ago, Rekkou said:

It's still more thematically related to sniper than priest. What if Valkyr got reworked again and she got new abilities revolving around headshot? What if Mesa got reworked and she got abilities based on Melee? you gonna say it's okay because all warframe can do headshot and melee?

 

 

Well either you are very horrible at getting headshots in general or your just complaining about a headshot bonus just to complain.

[(PSN)hahajake]

Those abilities are super terribad. I hope this isnt set in stone.

 

[Rekkou]

3 hours ago, That1Cactus said:

Well either you are very horrible at getting headshots in general or your just complaining about a headshot bonus just to complain.

Well you obviously bad at reading because i made it obvious i complain about theme relevance

Also

Edited May 27, 2017 by Rekkou

[PsiWarp]

I wonder if Thurible requires ranged weapon kills or just any kills? If its the latter you can go ape with a strong melee, simultaneously healing and restoring energy to nearby teammates while easily locking down enemies in your path of destruction, then occasionally popping War Pact to pseudo-tank and protect the team.

Edited May 27, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Rekkou]

6 hours ago, Jakorak said:

I guess you either don't stealth, or you only use melee in your stealth. Headshots are bread and butter for those that want to stealth without being tied down to melee, and Red Veil's weapons (a dagger, a bow, and a crossbow) capitalize on that

Silence and well stealth is the bread and butter and butter of stealth. Headshot alone does not guarantee silence nor stealth. Tying stealth to headshot is as much stretch as tying priest to headshot.

[Tesseract7777]

24 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Silence and well stealth is the bread and butter and butter of stealth. Headshot alone does not guarantee silence nor stealth. Tying stealth to headshot is as much stretch as tying priest to headshot.

I disagree that it is a stretch at all, in fact it is perfectly fitting, I don't see why you and so many others keep trying to claim that a headshot theme doesn't make sense for Harrow. 

He's a Red Veil frame, and both of their ranged weapons are weapons where getting headshots is STRONGLY encouraged to get the most of their potential. Headshots are a part of stealth gameplay, especially in Warframe, and especially with the Red Veil, where it is a major part of there theme, whether you think it fits with stealth or not. 

Also, just because something doesn't always guarantee stealth, doesn't mean it isn't considered an important part of stealth gameplay. 

Anyways I think people need to get over the fact that he gets benefit from headshots, that is a big part of this frame's ability set, and they aren't going to change that at this point. They already gave a compromise for people who don't like it, in terms of people still being able to use the abilities without headshots, they just won't be quite as good. 

If it still bothers you for "theme" reasons, oh well. No frame is ever going to please everyone aesthetically and thematically, which is great because we have a lot of choices. Lots of frames don't quite mesh for me thematically with DE's vision for that frame, doesn't bother me, we have like 35 something choices or so now, I forget the exact number, but it is a lot. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Rekkou]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

I disagree that it is a stretch at all, in fact it is perfectly fitting, I don't see why you and so many others keep trying to claim that a headshot theme doesn't make sense for Harrow. 

He's a Red Veil frame, and both of their ranged weapons are weapons where getting headshots is STRONGLY encouraged to get the most of their potential. Headshots are a part of stealth gameplay, especially in Warframe, and especially with the Red Veil, where it is a major part of there theme, whether you think it fits with stealth or not. 

Also, just because something doesn't always guarantee stealth, doesn't mean it isn't considered an important part of stealth gameplay. 

Headshot increases your damage, by the default it will be important to many things in warframe because warframe is a shooter game. But making it a core concept for a priest warframe when it's not presence on warframe like Mesa or Ivara will make it out of place.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Rekkou said:

Headshot increases your damage, by the default it will be important to many things in warframe because warframe is a shooter game. But making it a core concept for a priest warframe when it's not presence on warframe like Mesa or Ivara will make it out of place.

I respect your opinion, and I get why you feel that way, but I personally see it differently. 

Headshots = mercy kill. Red Veil = Rakta Weapons = even if you aren't using them as stealth, they encourage headshots, which is a part of his theme. TBH I think that's the biggest reason they gave him headshot thing, because he's Red Veil frame. 

I think you could perhaps argue that Mesa and Ivara should have some headshot mechanics, especially Mesa, but I don't think that necessarily follow that it's out of place on Harrow. Just supposing they need it, doesn't mean he shouldn't, imo. 

And in the case of Mesa, IDK, personally I always saw her as more of a gunslinger going for hordes of enemies than worrying so much about being a sharpshooter. 

[Kjahla81]

12 hours ago, Liacu said:

Why you ask? Because I really want to hit someone with it :P 

Best reason ever.

[Evanescent]

Thurible: I would like there to be a cleansing effect against status effects, thanks to the theme of incense having soothing properties in the ability's AoE.

EDIT:Added description

Edited May 28, 2017 by Evanescent

[PsiWarp]

I think maybe War Pact already does that, makes everybody immune to procs or so it says on the WIP description.

But how would you apply the cleansing effect on Thurible? On kill or headshot kill? Or moving into/staying inside Harrow's aura?

[UltimateGrr]

6 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Thurible: I would like there to be a cleansing effect against status effects, thanks to the theme of incense having soothing properties. 

Incense makes you calm, but doesn't suddenly extinguish you should you be on fire.  

[Evanescent]

5 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

I think maybe War Pact already does that, makes everybody immune to procs or so it says on the WIP description.

But how would you apply the cleansing effect on Thurible? On kill or headshot kill? Or moving into/staying inside Harrow's aura?

Added in topic. Thurible has an AoE, so it would work in that.

3 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

Incense makes you calm, but doesn't suddenly extinguish you should you be on fire.  

Ah, Logic. I was going more for the theme than what it actually does. But on that note, Incense has been used to ward off pests, diseases and infections historically, so it would actually fit.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Evanescent

[UltimateGrr]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

Added in topic. Thurible has an AoE, so it would work in that.

Ah, Logic. I was going more for the theme than what it actually does. But on that note, Incense has been used to ward off pests, diseases and infections historically, so it would actually fit.

Okay, so before we get too far off on the wrong foot, I'm not entirely sold on the idea of giving Harrow a cleanse effect, since wide area cleanses / proc immunity is sort of Oberon's thing thanks to Hallow Ground's vastly expanded coverage area.  Not even Trinity has a cleanse.

That said, I'd prefer to see it on Penance, since I think it'd be an interesting thing to reward on headshot.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, UltimateGrr said:

Okay, so before we get too far off on the wrong foot, I'm not entirely sold on the idea of giving Harrow a cleanse effect, since wide area cleanses / proc immunity is sort of Oberon's thing thanks to Hallow Ground's vastly expanded coverage area.  Not even Trinity has a cleanse.

That said, I'd prefer to see it on Penance, since I think it'd be an interesting thing to reward on headshot.

Why should something as important and basic as a cleanse be limited to one single Warframe?

[Xekrin]

9 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

Okay, so before we get too far off on the wrong foot, I'm not entirely sold on the idea of giving Harrow a cleanse effect

22 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

But how would you apply the cleansing effect on Thurible? On kill or headshot kill? Or moving into/staying inside Harrow's aura?

Possibly at random intervals?  It'd be pretty powerful to have it as a constant effect though.  Maybe they'll take the easy way out and make that into an augment, which we won't see for at least a year anyway.

[Trickst3rGawd]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

Possibly at random intervals?  It'd be pretty powerful to have it as a constant effect though.  Maybe they'll take the easy way out and make that into an augment, which we won't see for at least a year anyway.

Didn't they say an augment was shipping with Harrow or did I hear it wrong?

[Xekrin]

1 minute ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

Didn't they say an augment was shipping with Harrow or did I hear it wrong?

I'm guessing alternate helm, but I wouldn't know for sure as my twitch feeds constantly flux in and out so I'd have to rewatch the streams to be sure.  It'd be nice if it did, but I doubt it, we still have a lot of frames that lack many augments, it'd be bad form to augment Harrow straight away.  Not impossible though.

[Evanescent]

13 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

Okay, so before we get too far off on the wrong foot, I'm not entirely sold on the idea of giving Harrow a cleanse effect, since wide area cleanses / proc immunity is sort of Oberon's thing thanks to Hallow Ground's vastly expanded coverage area.  Not even Trinity has a cleanse.

That said, I'd prefer to see it on Penance, since I think it'd be an interesting thing to reward on headshot.

No worries, I respect your opinion. I suggested this as I thought priests generally have a way to cleanse impurities and heal allies. He already has a heal with his penance, so I added in the status cleansing to his 3, which fits thematically.

While I agree that there could be a risk to overlap with Oberon, I would offer the defense that he would prove a kind of mirror to Oberon where one cleanses status and heals, and the other replenishes energy while cleansing.

[Evanescent]

5 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Possibly at random intervals?  It'd be pretty powerful to have it as a constant effect though.  Maybe they'll take the easy way out and make that into an augment, which we won't see for at least a year anyway.

I would prefer it to linger, actually.

[Xekrin]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

I would prefer it to linger, actually.

Well depending on the duration of the triggering ability, I didn't pay much attention to the stats as they'll change, but yeah it could maybe trigger, linger for a bit then fade, and trigger again?  Base that on headshots or whatever.  It'd be incentive to get headshots, since we rarely need them for actual killing blows until late late end game.