Why I don't play with Limbos right now

[(PSN)Assassin14435]

I don't understand all the hate Limbo gets. How many enemies do you get to shoot in an extermination mission when someone is running through the map with an Ember World on Fire build, or that one toxic Saryn build (I don't know her skill names)? Don't hear much complaining about them. My only gripe with this Limbo rework is that when I'm playing Limbo, and some other Limbo joins the game and literally does nothing but cast and uncast Cataclysm over and over, it now deactivates my banish. So as a result, I'm sitting there spamming my evade button to not only keep myself banished, but to get out of the guy's radius. I had a guy rage quit a Sortie on me earlier because he thought I was afk leeching. No, I'm trying to get away from you because I can't banish myself and the hostage (it was a Sortie defense). You shouldn't be MR22 and play like a skilless hag. Bad players give Limbo a bad rep, not Limbo himself.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Assassin14435 said:

I don't understand all the hate Limbo gets. How many enemies do you get to shoot in an extermination mission when someone is running through the map with an Ember World on Fire build, or that one toxic Saryn build (I don't know her skill names)? Don't hear much complaining about them. My only gripe with this Limbo rework is that when I'm playing Limbo, and some other Limbo joins the game and literally does nothing but cast and uncast Cataclysm over and over, it now deactivates my banish. So as a result, I'm sitting there spamming my evade button to not only keep myself banished, but to get out of the guy's radius. I had a guy rage quit a Sortie on me earlier because he thought I was afk leeching. No, I'm trying to get away from you because I can't banish myself and the hostage (it was a Sortie defense). You shouldn't be MR22 and play like a skilless hag. Bad players give Limbo a bad rep, not Limbo himself.

The difference between a frame that kills fast and limbo is that when playing with limbo you have enemies right in front of you that you think you can shoot, but can't. He's confusing to play with, it's not just about getting kills.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

The solution to Limbo been annoying was to make him even more annoying.

[bronzebonobo]

5 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

I understand this is a topic of some debate ATM, so I may get salted over this. But that's never bothered me.

I recently went into a PUG, and discovered almost immediately that I couldn't shoot anything. I recognized that one of my fellow Tenno was wearing a Limbo. I commented in chat that I don't currently play with Limbos, because they can prevent me from shooting and killing things. I wished them all luck, and politely Aborted out of the mission.

Subsequently, one of the players, before he ignored me (how delightfully childlike!) felt the need to PM me to explain how I can work around his use of Limbo and still kill things. It was so kind of him.

That's the heart of my issue with Limbo right now. I like WF's smooth gameplay, and I like shooting and killing things ~ It's why, at level 22 and 2000+ hours in the game, I'm still playing it. Put simply, Limbo as DE has currently empowered him, prevents me from doing what I like, what I thought the game has always been about: "Warriors of Gun and Blade". Yes, of course I can find a way to overcome the handicap that Limbo imposes on his fellow players. But why bother? Why should I have to do that?

As a side issue, if I run into you wearing Limbo, and I tell the group I don't play with Limbos right now, and then I inconvenience myself by Aborting out of the mission...could I ask you to not be a sphincter about your entitlement to play as YOU want? Yes, I'm leaving the mission one player short, but I'm not spending the mission doing things to inconvenience you, I'm not pouring salt all over you in chat, I'm not letting you die if your squishy 'frame becomes dead, I'm not doing anything except being polite about not wanting to play with this particular WF.

people are still mad about limbo, but nobody hates ember, why?

[Jeoxz]

I play Limbo 90% of the time. And I have nothing to say here, you were polite and you had your reasons.

I understand that he's polarizing for people, and when I go to a match I try to tell everyone before it starts I'm bringing Limbo, if they want to leave so be it. If they stay then I do what I do (saving people's butts most of the time) and the mission runs as smoothly as any other.

[Arezael]

As with the rest of the internet, it's the person behind the computer that's the problem.

I give any player a chance irrespective of their gear or levels, because I simply don't know what they're like without having spent time in their squad previously.

Too often though, a Limbo will be more of a hindrance than someone who is essentially AFK - to the point where I am sure most people would currently take the leecher if given the choice between the two. 

Essentially it takes more skill and consideration to successfully integrate Limbo into a random Public squad - which is beyond what the majority of the player base are capable of.

 

For me it's a case of sigh, try to complete the mission as quickly as possible, and move on - because I don't want yet another clown getting to put a notch on my failed mission list.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

As a pretty frequent limbo player, the new limbo does make me think alot more when playing with a squad. I don't know if people liked being in stasis or not, so i only use it as a panic button on emergencies or when i'm not puting down a cataclysm (stasis on - banish - dash in - shotgun - dash out - banish again and so on, and emd stasis when i feel like the set up is enough and it'll kill every 'marked' target. It's a different yet enjoyable play style~)

 

tho, some limbos are not mindful at all and would just nuke the room or put everything in stasis every second. If i'm not in the mood i'd just pull out my sonicor and forcefuly end their stasis (they often die in a couple of seconds when they don't realize stasis is down)

[Tesseract7777]

I actually think its kind of bad form to drop out of PUG's just because of a specific frame without even seeing how the person is using it. If you are so worried about working with a particular frame, you can set up a group in chat. 

When you play PUG, you are basically hitting "random selection" on the other three frames for the mission, and then getting cheesed off when someone picks one you don't like, and inconveniencing everyone in the squad by aborting randomly. 

I detest this kind of behavior, personally. I don't mean to sound harsh, I don't think the OP has bad intentions, but I really dislike it when people leave PUG's without even seeing how people are playing first. Unless someone is trolling, leeching, or using their powers in a very annoying way, you are messing with the groups chances for success. And if you were that concerned about not having to play with one frame, you can always go solo or use recruit chat. 

Edit: And in terms of Limbo in particular, I think he is always going to be a somewhat contentious frame, because to paraphrase someone else earlier in the thread whom I forgot, Limbo is the frame that divides and conquers enemies in the rift. That ability to divide up enemies takes control away from other players, so obviously there will always be some annoyance over Limbo's powers in random games. I am not sure any design changes are ever going to change this either. Far too much about his rift mechanics will always have this problem to an extent. 

The only way to completely remove this problem would be to remove him from the game. 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Homer87]

14 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I actually think its kind of bad form to drop out of PUG's just because of a specific frame without even seeing how the person is using it. If you are so worried about working with a particular frame, you can set up a group in chat. 

When you play PUG, you are basically hitting "random selection" on the other three frames for the mission, and then getting cheesed off when someone picks one you don't like, and inconveniencing everyone in the squad by aborting randomly.

^ This. So much this. The OP post is why I play Limbo solo. I got tired of the toxicity while playing pugs using Limbo. When I do see a Limbo, I know to play around him, and I know how to use his mechanics to my advantage regardless of what plane I'm on because I also play Limbo. I get the OP wasn't trying to be rude, but when you hear the same thing over and over because you are using a particular frame, but never hear it when using other frames, it gets tiresome.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

7 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

I understand this is a topic of some debate ATM, so I may get salted over this. But that's never bothered me.

I recently went into a PUG, and discovered almost immediately that I couldn't shoot anything. I recognized that one of my fellow Tenno was wearing a Limbo. I commented in chat that I don't currently play with Limbos, because they can prevent me from shooting and killing things. I wished them all luck, and politely Aborted out of the mission.

Subsequently, one of the players, before he ignored me (how delightfully childlike!) felt the need to PM me to explain how I can work around his use of Limbo and still kill things. It was so kind of him.

That's the heart of my issue with Limbo right now. I like WF's smooth gameplay, and I like shooting and killing things ~ It's why, at level 22 and 2000+ hours in the game, I'm still playing it. Put simply, Limbo as DE has currently empowered him, prevents me from doing what I like, what I thought the game has always been about: "Warriors of Gun and Blade". Yes, of course I can find a way to overcome the handicap that Limbo imposes on his fellow players. But why bother? Why should I have to do that?

As a side issue, if I run into you wearing Limbo, and I tell the group I don't play with Limbos right now, and then I inconvenience myself by Aborting out of the mission...could I ask you to not be a sphincter about your entitlement to play as YOU want? Yes, I'm leaving the mission one player short, but I'm not spending the mission doing things to inconvenience you, I'm not pouring salt all over you in chat, I'm not letting you die if your squishy 'frame becomes dead, I'm not doing anything except being polite about not wanting to play with this particular WF.

I understand that limbo got nerfed on PC but not yet on consoles

But for now, i use limbo for almost all situation (have 3 builds)

- build A: Survival, defense and extermination (press 4, wait 1 sec, press 4) and everyone of the enemies is dead

- Build B: Mobile Defense, interception (press 4, press 2), everyone freezes for 84 sec. Redo  (when you Redo, it will kill enemies)

- Build C: Kela de Thayn for missile strike protection

but i think after the nerf,. (i am not sure, i have to wait till i test it), i will stick up with B and C. unless i find an amended build for A).

The way i use Limbo does not afftect other players style (except for Build A where i steal kills for some). and in case of defense, i activate the power when it gets really hot. 

i never put enemies nor player in the rift.

In the case of B, the enemies are frozen at the boundaries and not inside the catalysm, so once you move you can shoot.

In case of C, once the strike is over, i stop the catalysm so you can shoot the rotation wheel.

I believe that's the way how Limbo should be played,

On the other hand, if a host asks me he does not want Limbo, i simply leave and the way i see it he has every right, he is the host after all, and so you have the right to abort the mission.

But not all limbo players are bad

 

[FierceRadiance]

9 minutes ago, Homer87 said:

^ This. So much this. The OP post is why I play Limbo solo. I got tired of the toxicity while playing pugs using Limbo. When I do see a Limbo, I know to play around him, and I know how to use his mechanics to my advantage regardless of what plane I'm on because I also play Limbo. I get the OP wasn't trying to be rude, but when you hear the same thing over and over because you are using a particular frame, but never hear it when using other frames, it gets tiresome.

I teach my son that you can choose to do pretty much you want - be a great guy, be obnoxious, be rude, be polite, whatever you want. What you DON'T get to do is to tell other people how they have to respond to you and your choices.

If you want to play a frame you know is polarizing and not well liked by a sizable minority (or maybe even a majority) of the player base, you don't get to tell them how they should react to your choice. You get to PUT UP with their response to your actions, or choose to do what you did - play Solo; that's all.

It has nothing to do with Limbo, and everything to do with this truth: choices have -and should have- consequences.

Edited May 7, 2017 by FierceRadiance

[Homer87]

Just now, FierceRadiance said:

I teach my son that you can choose to do pretty much you want - be a great guy, be obnoxious, be rude, be polite, whatever you want. What you DON'T get to do is to tell other people how they have to respond to you and your choices.

If you want to play a frame you know is polarizing and not well liked by a sizable minority (or maybe even a majority) of the player base, you don't get to tell them how they should react to your choice. You get to PUT UP with their response to your actions; that's all.

It has nothing to do with Limbo, and everything to do with this truth: choices have -and should have- consequences.

May I point out that your OP was about Limbo and how you refuse to play with him? Also, in my post, I talked about how players have reacted to me while playing Limbo, vs how I reacted to them. The main take away, if you get anything out of this thread is give Limbos a chance.

Choices do have consequences - and this thread of people telling you to work with Limbo is your consequence of making this thread.

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, FierceRadiance said:

I teach my son that you can choose to do pretty much you want - be a great guy, be obnoxious, be rude, be polite, whatever you want. What you DON'T get to do is to tell other people how they have to respond to you and your choices.

If you want to play a frame you know is polarizing and not well liked by a sizable minority (or maybe even a majority) of the player base, you don't get to tell them how they should react to your choice. You get to PUT UP with their response to your actions, or choose to do what you did - play Solo; that's all.

It has nothing to do with Limbo, and everything to do with this truth: choices have -and should have- consequences.

It seems this particular Limbo in your scenario was indeed a Stasis spammer, as evidenced by the message he sent you. 

But did you wait long enough to find out first? You didn't have to ask, you could have just watched a few seconds in mission to see if he was doing that. You chose to ditch immediately, and make sure the dude knew you were displeased with a random stranger for their choice of frame. What chance did you give him? How did you know beforehand he would be spamming Stasis? 

 

[Ariadne]

I don't get it, I never had problems with whatever the new Limbo rework is.

[FierceRadiance]

Well, I figured I'd get some salt. \-J

My point remains - why do I need to accommodate Limbo players? Why can't Limbo players accommodate me, and players like me?  It's a rhetorical question, because IMHO DE shouldn't have put us in this position in the first place.

The best answer seems obvious, at least to me: I shouldn't have to put up with self-centered Limbo players, and they shouldn't have to run missions short-handed because of my personal likes and dislikes. The best answer (IMHO) is that DE ought to find a way to make Limbo a workable and relevant frame, without giving him powers that cause divisiveness among their players. Regardless of what you thought of his powers before, they were easy for other players to avoid. Now, as a previous commenter said, why should I have to read a manual on a warframe I don't use, in order to play missions with a player who does use him?

This isn't about my personal dislike for playing with Limbos, it's about DE's poor decision to change his abilities into something other players have to accommodate. I think that was a bad choice. We can debate about my response to it, or what a better response might (or might not) be--but why should I even have to make such a choice in the first place? Fix this, DE.

[kyori]

I think you should just abort without saying anything. What you said before you abort might have backfired n triggered him to pm you. There's no point in saying you don't play with limbo unless you want to start an argument etc which you did n experienced 

[Bobtm]

With each passing day I cannot deny that I sincerely wish that almost everyone stops playing Limbo.  I tend to try and be reasonably helpful to others, but I 100% refuse to ever help anyone with any part of the quest to obtain Limbo, because I don't want more of them mucking things up.  In the current state that he's in, Limbo is honestly just about the only frame that I dread to find myself paired up with in a mission.  That said, pugs are pugs and if I do match up with one I stick it through and do my best to revive them if they fall just like I do anyone else.

The funniest part, Limbo is by far and away my favorite frame to use.  However, I play him very lightly on ability usage which has allowed me to avoid causing others grief.  More often than not I'll almost exclusively use his Rift dodge as an evasion and repositioning tool to accentuate gunplay/melee combat.  Keeping Cataclysm purely as an emergency device and only briefly for the situations that call for it.  If I happen to be using Stasis, I'll very regularly unfreeze and refreeze time so that everyone's bullets hit the enemies just a few seconds (less than 6 usually) after they fire.  I always make a conscious effort to put myself in another player's shoes and do my best to ensure that I'm not stomping on their toes.

It's almost painful how poorly his design works from a teamplay standpoint currently.  Primarily with regards to the Stasis ability at most, with some other issues of course being present as anyone here already knows.  Worse still, even as a Limbo myself, I suffer the same awful situations if I run across a Cataclysm spamming perma-stasis Limbo.  Since their Stasis being on means I can't turn it off period. Stasis being on for the Rift overrides off, and all Limbo's share the same Rift right now.

What would be truly wonderful (if it's possible) would be to have Limbo's current mechanics separated in a way that they did not impact any other player in the match in any way at all.  Meaning allies could be damaged by and deal damage to enemies inside or outside of the Rift.  Also meaning that allies can't arbitrarily end up being accidentally or purposefully Banished because Limbo's 1 is nonsensically an AoE now.  Meaning Cataclysm has no impact on play for anyone but Limbo directly.

If that were possible and done, suddenly Limbo still gets to do his fancy Rift shenanigans.  They can use Stasis to their hearts content to freeze enemies and set up quick and intricate gunfire patterns to snap onto foes.  They can use Banish on all the things or just some of them, Cataclsym an area or a defense object to protect it from foes.  And all the while nobody is negatively impacted by any of it at all.  However this also means that allies will no longer be able to get free energy from Limbo's Rift, but I don't think that's a bad tradeoff for everything that is being gained.

At this point, there aren't many options left on the table with regards to Limbo's situation.  People aren't wrong to hate having a Limbo on their team, much as I truly hate to say that since I myself adore using Limbo.  So either it's destined that more and more players will come to despise having to put up with Limbo's obtrusive nonsense, that they don't put up with it at all and refuse to be on a squad with Limbo, or something changes so that it's not a problem any longer.

Separating and isolating Limbo's ability mechanics so that they only impact the Limbo player alone (and not other Limbos on the same squad either) would allow him to retain his current playstyle but not rain on everyone's parade.  Otherwise, as much as I hate to say this because I love Limbo's current kit, he outright needs a full new rework or he'll continue to garner justified hatred from other players.

[ALEX_IV]

I really think the one being childish was you. I mean, you went into a PUG, decided to vocalize that you don't like to play with certain frame, and then left?

Imagine if all players were like you. "hey, I don't like playing with WOF Embers so bye!". "Ugh, a Frost, (you are probably going to spam snow globes everywhere), I am finding another team". Etc. People would be leaving matches left and right. Also, think how the player of the mentioned frame feels. Imagine if he is playing his favorite frame, and then someone tells him he is leaving because he is playing with that frame? Of course he ignored you. Why would he want to talk to someone that doesn't want to play with him?

If you don't want a random team, that's what recruiting and premades are for. Or your clan. PUGs are supposed to be random experiences. You can't expect to find what you like 100% of the time. And if you go into a PUG again and decide to leave another time, just leave and keep your mouth shut.

[xaverius666]

1 hour ago, ALEX_IV said:

I really think the one being childish was you. I mean, you went into a PUG, decided to vocalize that you don't like to play with certain frame, and then left?

Imagine if all players were like you. "hey, I don't like playing with WOF Embers so bye!". "Ugh, a Frost, (you are probably going to spam snow globes everywhere), I am finding another team". Etc. People would be leaving matches left and right. Also, think how the player of the mentioned frame feels. Imagine if he is playing his favorite frame, and then someone tells him he is leaving because he is playing with that frame? Of course he ignored you. Why would he want to talk to someone that doesn't want to play with him?

If you don't want a random team, that's what recruiting and premades are for. Or your clan. PUGs are supposed to be random experiences. You can't expect to find what you like 100% of the time. And if you go into a PUG again and decide to leave another time, just leave and keep your mouth shut.

oh thanks, someone in one mind with me. why op not play limbo until limbo respected in PUG? 2000hrs+ i mean, well not a noobs afterall.

[Seinerweisen]

15 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

I understand this is a topic of some debate ATM, so I may get salted over this. But that's never bothered me.

I recently went into a PUG, and discovered almost immediately that I couldn't shoot anything. I recognized that one of my fellow Tenno was wearing a Limbo. I commented in chat that I don't currently play with Limbos, because they can prevent me from shooting and killing things. I wished them all luck, and politely Aborted out of the mission.

Subsequently, one of the players, before he ignored me (how delightfully childlike!) felt the need to PM me to explain how I can work around his use of Limbo and still kill things. It was so kind of him.

That's the heart of my issue with Limbo right now. I like WF's smooth gameplay, and I like shooting and killing things ~ It's why, at level 22 and 2000+ hours in the game, I'm still playing it. Put simply, Limbo as DE has currently empowered him, prevents me from doing what I like, what I thought the game has always been about: "Warriors of Gun and Blade". Yes, of course I can find a way to overcome the handicap that Limbo imposes on his fellow players. But why bother? Why should I have to do that?

As a side issue, if I run into you wearing Limbo, and I tell the group I don't play with Limbos right now, and then I inconvenience myself by Aborting out of the mission...could I ask you to not be a sphincter about your entitlement to play as YOU want? Yes, I'm leaving the mission one player short, but I'm not spending the mission doing things to inconvenience you, I'm not pouring salt all over you in chat, I'm not letting you die if your squishy 'frame becomes dead, I'm not doing anything except being polite about not wanting to play with this particular WF.

Why do you have to say anything. Just leave.... You want to be polite bout not wanting to play with a particular Warframe... just leave.... Don't say anything. Just leave. I would bet 2k plat that if you just left the group without saying anything that no one would have PMed you...  You poured salt on yourself...

Edited May 7, 2017 by Seinerweisen

[mcdoo]

Why even speak about why you are leaving as if anyone cares if you part? Another will join just as quickly most times. 

We dont need excuses or rationale why someone leaves a video game. No one cares. Just transform and roll out. 

"Im entitled" 

[PierceSG]

21 hours ago, bronzebonobo said:

people are still mad about limbo, but nobody hates ember, why?

LOL.

I had players who literally told me to go die in a fire, or get cancer, because I was playing with on World on Fire (with Firequake) Ember.

I was just standing on the objective, occasionally shooting at stuffs that comes near enough and not die.

[Wolfdoggie]

I'm generally disappointed when I join a game to lvl my gun and end up unable to shoot anything. Same reason I find Nyx and Zephyr annoying and sometimes Frost, but I'm usually the one playing Frost and remove domes if asked unless I find it more useful as is and others tend to do the same. Although I personally just say screw it if Limbo is freezing all my xp craving bullets and just leech ally kill xp instead of leaving majority of the time. I agree with others in saying you should just leave without saying anything otherwise you come off as deliberately aiming to make them feel bad and draw shame to them. The Limbo may just be lvling stuff and/or playing without Za Warudo anyways.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Wolfdoggie

[AzurePrower]

I don't always limbo. But when I do, it's Lua Pavlov.

[PrVonTuckIII]

While I can agree that some Limbo's can be annoying, you behavior certainly didn't help. What you did was not what I would consider the "noble" thing (which I would tentatively say it's not; most people will read it as rather rude and patronizing)

On 5/6/2017 at 9:37 PM, FierceRadiance said:

And again, my larger issue isn't how players should or shouldn't react to Limbos on their team. My issue is, why did you do this to your players, DE? Did this grouping of abilities really seem like the BEST combination possible - pitting some players against others in this way?

I'm sure you didn't mean to imply it, but DE isn't doing this intentionally. They wanted Limbo to be more effective (and to anyone who says the older one is better: grow a frontal lobe, because "effective" and "old Limbo" are on the opposite ends of the spectrum), and I daresay that he is. He's an excellent solo frame, and his CC capabilities are now on par with everyone else's.

The problem here is that the godly CC comes at the cost of player interactivity. So clearly Limbo in himself isn't bad, but he needs tweaks that allow other players to not feel cheated when Limbo is on a pug team (pre-formed teams shouldn't have any problem). Personally, I've never had any problem, but I can see why some people might not enjoy it.

I can't suggest any tweaks myself, but I can imagine the bare ideas as to how to keep the current abilities while still allowing fellow players to play as usual with a pug Limbo. That's what we should be doing here, not bashing Limbo/players/DE.

On 5/6/2017 at 7:34 PM, alphaflight666 said:

What will happen:

- Tonkor will be changed so that when you kill yourself with it you lose one MR rank,

- a few popular weapons will be nerfed,

- some frame will be reworked to be more annoying than those weapons ever were.

What were you trying to say, here?