[U21 Megathread] New Warframe: Harrow

[Blacque]

It just dawned on me...  Penance and such.  I referenced it earlier.  How about the tweak to Penance be something that's moderately offensive in how it supports the team.  Make it a wide range aoe where enemies self harm for doing wrong!  Either by their weapons backfiring or something.  OR even better when he slaps his own back with his pleasure decide the enemies in the local area share a percentage of the shield strips as damage to their health SCALING OF COURSE.

I don't know why this is bugging me, what did Harrow do to have to deserve beating himself up?  Aren't we the good guys?  Yes the answer to that is yes we are the good guys and any debate to the contrary will be shouted down by CAPS!

 

I kid... but this isn't the place for that right?

[Fallen_Echo]

Reading all the changes made to harrow im starting to think its not worth to farm him.

[Fari]

If a leech drains you to 0 while you have Thurible also active, no matter how much you charged it up, instead of casting it the ability just turns off without activating.

If there isn't a leech in the picture hitting 0 energy just casts it, as it should be. Would be a good thing to fix, among other things.

*edit* wait a minute this is feedback not bug forums, I brain farted. I mean I guess it's kind of feedback too.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Oktavia
oops

[bishoy]

harrow abilities are nice but i dont think he keeps up with other warframes at endgame ,so here is my idea. ill try to remain as short as possible cuz no one likes reading an essay on every topic.

condemn : wider arc and open enemys to finishers.

penance : to be a toggle on ability with high energy drain.

thurible : faster channeling and a slightly lower headshot multiplier since its too easy to refill ur energy in a few secs with headshots.

covnent : longer first phase by 40% and faster animation by 20-40% to reduce the need for natural talent.

passive : even 200% overshields isnt nearly enough reason to make us spam his 1st ability , instead just give him a higher base shields ( like frost prime or so ) and a new passive. my idea for a new passive is shield percentage refill on finishers (shield version on inaros passive) and a higher shield recharge rate.

type in ur ideas for changes on ur reply ,and tell me what u think.

Edited July 1, 2017 by bishoy

[Chewarette]

I don't see how Penance could be a toggle-on ability...

Regarding the 1st ability, I think that all we can propose is something for an augment. As Harrow is supposed to assist and is headshot-oriented, I was thinking that maybe Condemned enemies killed by headshot could automatically drop orbs (like Well of Life augment for Trinity). Opening for Finisher with Condemn can also be nice indeed, but only as an Augment. I wouldn't want it to be automatic, some Finisher animations are too long so that would quickly become boring if we don't want to.

For the passive, overshield makes sense. But as Harrow relies exclusively on Shields, I was thinking that his passive could also apply Armor to his Shields. His 150 base armor is completely useless right now.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Chewarette

[Carnage2K4]

A winder Arc on condemn would be nice, but finishers? That's insanely OP, he's already quite strong.

Penance: Eh... I don't think it really needs to change.

Thurible: It is easy to refill your energy, but that's why you just do it for a few seconds. I see ppl charging it to like 30, seems like a waste of time.

Convent, might be okay with such a change, but I dunno yet, I've not multi-forma'd the frame to really see how it goes.

I actually don't mind the passive, Taxon is a nice buff.

[Carnage2K4]

11 hours ago, Cris0407 said:

Seems you don't have memory issue and play good enough to don't lose the buff...

Even good would be an indicator when half of the duration is gone.

This is honestly ridiculous as a reason...

You can literally look at the timer on your ability symbol, remembering to push a key is a simple aspect of any game. Train yourself to remember, it's not that difficult, any good player is always looking at where each ability is on its countdown/durability...

Edited July 1, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[Entharias]

I played Harrow enough to give some feedback (post was made during the 21.0.3 update)

1)The UI of Harrow abilites are covered by the map:
 

Spoiler

So it would be great if it got moved somewhere else.

2)Harrow is unable to gain kills/assists since he has no damage skills, and the assist count goes up only if an ability damages an enemy but it has been killed by someone else, so i would like to have some damage in Harrow's first ability (or hopefully we will get an augment mod for it).
 

Spoiler

3)The visual effects of Harrow's 3rd ability look different from when someone plays Harrow and if you see someone use it instead:
 

Spoiler

Me using it:
Someone else using it:

I personally find the amount of smoke execessive and ugly, so i would love to see it as i see it form other players perspective.



Overall i find Harrow great, hopefully some hotfixes will make it better.
PS: I didn't post this on the Megathread since it gets ignored by many people, and i would love to hear other people opinions.

[-NTB-Cris0407]

12 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

This is honestly ridiculous as a reason...

You can literally look at the timer on your ability symbol, remembering to push a key is a simple aspect of any game. Train yourself to remember, it's not that difficult, any good player is always looking at where each ability is on its countdown/durability...

The game is about ENDLESS mission where you just DRACOVILLE

If you preffer ON HARROW an Duration on 2 Skill... You're ninja...

I really would like to have TOGGLE ABILITY instead Duration...

 

Or maybe DE will give us both and let us choose....

Duration or toggle... They're good enough to put it in...

[Baterial]

34 minutes ago, bishoy said:

harrow abilities are nice but i dont think he keeps up with other warframes at endgame ,so here is my idea. ill try to remain as short as possible cuz no one likes reading an essay on every topic.

condemn : wider arc and open enemys to finishers.

penance : to be a toggle on ability with high energy drain.

thurible : faster channeling and a slightly lower headshot multiplier since its too easy to refill ur energy in a few secs with headshots.

covnent : longer first phase by 40% and faster animation by 20-40% to reduce the need for natural talent.

passive : even 200% overshields isnt nearly enough reason to make us spam his 1st ability , instead just give him a higher base shields ( like frost prime or so ) and a new passive. my idea for a new passive is shield percentage refill on finishers (shield version on inaros passive) and a higher shield recharge rate.

type in ur ideas for changes on ur reply ,and tell me what u think.

his 1st ability restores his shields and is great CC

Second ability heals him and speeds up reloar and firerate

Third ability gives energy back

Fourth gives crit chance

he have everything what he needs, he is like trinity, frost, crit mods in one thing

and he got buff to fourth ability about 20%

it is sick

[bishoy]

2 minutes ago, Baterial said:

his 1st ability restores his shields and is great CC

Second ability heals him and speeds up reloar and firerate

Third ability gives energy back

Fourth gives crit chance

he have everything what he needs, he is like trinity, frost, crit mods in one thing

and he got buff to fourth ability about 20%

it is sick

so whats wrong with making him even more sick , its not like he will be overpowerd or unbalanced 

[minidelight]

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Reading all the changes made to harrow im starting to think its not worth to farm him.

its not worth the farm......harrow is a mediocre warframe atm and his skill kit feels unfinished and rushed.......wait for the "rework" 

 

he looks good though.

Edited July 1, 2017 by minidelight

[Fallen_Echo]

3 minutes ago, minidelight said:

its not worth the farm......harrow is a mediocre warframe atm and his skill kit feels unfinished and rushed.......wait for the "rework" 

 

he looks good though.

Thats my problem that he looks good, but every time i see him getting another fix i start to doubt if its worth to escort the failed clones in that bpring mission for his parts.

[KingBeneathTheMountain]

It would be awesome when you increase the loading rate of the thurible and the energy cost with it, without changing the maximum. For allies the thurible only replenishes the bodyshot energy on headshots, on bodyshots it does not replenish any energy

 

[Undermann]

well he is a support not a attack frame

i think the animation of his 4th can be a bit faster (got killed 2 time in animation ) but thats it

[Phyrak]

1 hour ago, Cris0407 said:

The game is about ENDLESS mission where you just DRACOVILLE

If you preffer ON HARROW an Duration on 2 Skill... You're ninja...

I really would like to have TOGGLE ABILITY instead Duration...

 

Or maybe DE will give us both and let us choose....

Duration or toggle... They're good enough to put it in...

Or switch ala equinox 3

It allows for gain of energy whilst ability is in use

This would be far more useful - especially if the buff for 2 became a permanent buff, perhsps based on health? 

Dying or having quick thinking trigger removes the buff?

Side that with a little bit of damage reduction whilst it is active and Harrow will have greater survival

Just some thoughts

Pick them apart as needed - just want to see Harrow has good as he can be :)

[FailureToReport]

What a f%*(#@$(*%)* mess of a Warframe........

 

I might be newer to this game, but I'm not an idiot, and even I can see that Harrow is a god damn mess. His 2 & 3 are absolutely terrible if you're in a competent group, you literally have to beg people for kills to feed, Okay, guess I'm not going to be healing or energy regening, sweet, guess I'll just chain things and go pewpewpew and pretend I'm a DPS who is terrible. At this point you might as well be playing something that has a damage buff for everyone or something.

 

Energy becomes a huge problem especially when the siphon guys start rolling in, oops, there goes your energy, and you have no means of regening it because you can't cast his 3 without it, and even if you get the cast off the rest of the group is going to train wreck everything before you can get a decent regen going. If you cast your 1 on a pack to try to headshot for max regen someone else  is going to go "oooooh, easy AOE farm, pew pew dead" and you're boned.

 

Nerfing his 2 ability with a duration cap really sucks, it's just another nail in putting Harrow on the Cross of the Damned Frame.

 

I might be a newer player, but I can jump on a frame like Oberon and feel like I'm doing more to help the group, and that's pretty messed up.

 

You guys over at DE need to figure your crap out.

 

Guess this really cool and fun concept of a support frame goes back on the shelf, I'll just go back to Nidus and not giving a crap about group synergy. GG, thanks for the funs.

Edited July 1, 2017 by FailureToReport

[WhiteMarker]

13 minutes ago, FailureToReport said:

Energy becomes a huge problem especially when the siphon guys start rolling in, oops, there goes your energy, and you have no means of regening it because you can't cast his 3 without it, and even if you get the cast off the rest of the group is going to train wreck everything before you can get a decent regen going. If you cast your 1 on a pack to try to headshot for max regen someone else  is going to go "oooooh, easy AOE farm, pew pew dead" and you're boned.

Why would you even have to get energy, if your group kills everything this fast?
I don't say Harrow's ablilities are perfect as they are, but your argument is way worse than any ability Harrow has.

[FailureToReport]

You wouldn't, because there's no reason to cast anything on Harrow atm besides his 1. I'll CC with his chains and just pew pew and what others don't kill off and then just rely on Energy Siphon aura's or energy orbs to regen, I'm not gonna risk my surviability or energy (and ability to chain) casting 2 or 3. 

 

Thats.....like...my point? Do you not see the argument? Harrow is a mess, he's a pointless support. Why is it this game fields so many "support" type frames but they are all trash and everyone's response is "Yeah just go play Trinity if you want to support." Solid. 

 

[FailureToReport]

2 hours ago, minidelight said:

its not worth the farm......harrow is a mediocre warframe atm and his skill kit feels unfinished and rushed.......wait for the "rework" 

 

he looks good though.

Pretty much this - I loved the frame style / look, it reminded me of a Chaos Priest sort of vibe. When he dropped I was stoked because I was like "Oh S#&$, a support that gives people lifesteal and energy regen? Awesome!" 

 

Then we get him and find out HE has to be the one making the kills...okay...but he's a support? Welcome to a support where it is very very possible to use energy to cast your support ability and end up at a loss of your energy and no real regen for the group because they smashed everything. 

It's literally a terrible idea for me to waste my energy and ability to chain with his #1 for the *possibility* of regening some energy for the team, especially when I can very easily end up with much less energy than what I had before casting #3. 

It's a borderline suicidal option for me to cast me #2 if I don't know for a fact that I have another pack to drop chains on to get my shields back, then I have to go and make kills before others get them to have the healing be of any benefit at all. Okay....or I could just keep my shields and not be like that other Harrow over there who is constantly needing a revive...

 

Harrow is just another poorly executed frame by this studio :/ 

[RafaelFuchs]

14 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

God no please. You say shields are too weak one second then in the other suggest the ability to work so it inhibits the shield regen.

I don't really want to see this kind of change in his second ability at all. At all. I haven't downed a single time when playing Harrow because of casting that ability, because I actually try to seek the right moment to turn it on -- I try to go away, cast it, return. Cast it when enemies are all dead and you have a brief moment of peace, etc. But this would be terrible D:

At all this, DE why did you add a time cap to that ability and why, for the sweet love of all that's good in this Universe, decided to nerf the Covenant ability at earlier levels instead of switching the values around OR buffing those. I was not expecting that approach when I reported such behavior, to be honest.

EDIT: A proper explanation as to why I'm opposed to Penance being a toggle:

• Right now you can cast Penance and cast his first ability to regain shields again instantly.
• A Sentinel can provide those shields back instantly.
• The shields on a toggle mode wouldn't be regained, meaning any enemy damaging you is going to have its way. It also goes against the main advantage of shields: That they are regained naturally.

So right now, Harrow is a shield based Warframe. Everything runs around his shield. While we're still lacking the gating, there is an advantage in the way Penance currently works for his shields, as you can instantly gain them back in a number of ways, and even if you didn't you should be able to recharge them back pretty fast with the right mods. Because Fast Deflection and Fortitude are a thing still.

 

Really, try to give it more spins before asking for a change here, because I have had 0 issue with it so far. In fact I am basing my build around it and I'm thoroughly enjoying this for a change.

All I said was inhibit the natural regen. Sentinels and all other sources would still give him his shielding back. My idea was to play into the risk-reward mindset they build him around. Sacrificing your regen for a massive fire-rate and reload buff seems like more than a fair trade. Instead of sapping your 3k overshield, you just lose the regen you get for your base shields. If you took the changes I had in mind for his #1 into consideration, that natural regen is peanuts with even base range and strength.

As my intro statement said, he's okay, but his kit leaves more to be desired. I never said he was bad or that I was incapable of finding a build I liked that used his whole kit. 

[RafaelFuchs]

...

Edited July 1, 2017 by RafaelFuchs
Double posted.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

since they capped penance buff at 60 secs no matter if you sacrifice 3000 or 3500 shields at least adjust the amount of shields removed to match the 60 secs cap so he still has some left if you use penance at 3500 or higher.

nonetheless very uncalled for change, harrow needs a whole bag of QoL & tweaks rather than this duration nerf.

Shields need alot more of that as they are TOTALLY a CHUMP CHANGE utility when it comes to survivability. ( outside the starchart or past 15 mins lvl's Selkie/Kuva fortress / MOT survivals lmfao ) and the upcoming shield gating mechanic won't solve the issue cus i suspect there will be cool downs to avoid perma invulenerability stages & balance issues.

That's where the core problem lies and developing a frame whose skillset is heavily based/dependant on shields is a no win situation until shields themselves can offer some kind of damage mitigation .

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[Xyhon]

Comparing new guy to other late frames, in current state, even Nidus is more prominent in keeping group alive + safe. His 2nd and 4th abilities are good at cc'ing / distracting foes even in high end content. Heck, I can heal others more with Inaros... Oberon revisit was great enough to put it on front shelf for me.

And yet, we got Harrow. Considering skills:

1st should go with more of cone arc, not straight line.

2nd: if you work it with 4th + 1st as replenish, it actually does it's function, but considering that I run with people who can wipe rooms clear in matter of 2 secs even at mid tier content (50-80), you just take too much time with sniping (which points us to the "why snipers are impaired when running in groups in horde slasher") to be really useful.

3rd: Current state would be good, if we could secure assists on kills, or benefit from team, not only self kills. Comparing this to Trinity, even non-EV oriented builds are more beneficial, because killing by anyone provides energy in burst at target death.

4th: Cast time is too long considering base invuln duration. And, why on earth can't we recast it? Energy demands are high enough to justify this use. And simply put, crit in this game is obsolete on higher level content, which makes it falloff greatly at anything 80+.

When you are running everyday stuff, like lower level fissures, etc, Harrow plays as fun frame, relying heavily on weapons to provide kills. Made me build Opticor just for fun, since weapon was revisited, and plays nicely with "follow the line" playstyle of the frame. Unfortunately, you aren't always in position to make lines out of enemies, and then 1st is pretty much mediocre. Relying heavily on spamming 1st to replenish shields, makes this tedious and a choir, since shields are nowhere near of effectiveness of normal HP.

Also, you made adjustments to Mag, to make it less squishy with cast on the move, and yet, here we are, Harrow's 2nd is full stop with cast time (can be offed with 4th, but not if you can't use 1st to regain shields fast), and his 3rd is hilarious with it's cast uptime requirement to be actually useful.

Overall, Harrow should be a support frame we waited for, and turned out mediocre in his current state. Octavia provides dmg buff, invis, redirects fire, does tons of damage with its skills. Nidus is a monster sweeping full rooms dead, being tank. Inaros stops everything in its tracks, and saps them dry. And Harrow? Not only is lower when it comes to energy/hp regen for party, but also lacks survivability in anything other than base game.

But, even with his flaws, he is fun to play. Just, not as good as he can be.

[Genji]

This ability double dips in costs to cast. Given it drops ALL of his shields, shields primarily funded by the casting of his 1st ability.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Genjinaro