Serious issues with the Login System (and Primed Shred)

[PrincessMittens]

So today I obtained Primed Shred. I am only 5 days behind perfect attendance. Normally this should be something worth being excited or hyped about, but all this has done is made me feel bad for owning it. 




 Primed Shred offers you essentially a Speed Trigger and a Metal Auger in one mod. This is a great mod, don't get me wrong, but there is one major problem. It's locked behind 600 Login Days. For people who want to get the very best numbers and performance out of their weapons, this mod is soul crushing because we don't have a way to catch-up in login days. There's people who've played the game for over 2k hours but are probably not even at the Zenistar yet. It takes 0 effort to login everyday, and it's rather cruel and unfair for those who missed days for whatever reason. 
 
 Next is the Primed Mods argument. Primed Mods should NOT be in the Login Rewards. Neither should weapons, technically speaking. For example, Zenistar is one of the best melee weapons in the game, and it's locked behind 300 login days. Whereas things like Azima and Zenith have clearly better counterparts, Zenistar is a very hard weapon to top. It eases capturing defense targets, clearing room in Interception, and several other uses. 
 With Primed Mods, this is an even worse issue, because mods go on any weapon they're meant for. Owning a Primed Vigor is just superior than a normal Vigor. It means that somebody's warframe is just gonna have more EHP than you possibly will, if you lack Primed Vigor. Primed Fury was also kind of pushing the envelope, but not nearly as much since it's not on-par with Berserker and goes on fewer weapons. Primed Shred is going to be an add-on ANYWHERE someone uses Speed Trigger or normal Shred. It's basically saying "Because I logged in for 600 days, my gun is just automatically faster and better at clearing crowds than yours."

 Essentially what I propose is two things. Firstly, give others who have played the game longer (may it be through hours, or some other measurement of time) a chance to catch up in login reward days. You wouldn't even have to give anybody the rewards you get in-between major milestones, just the milestones themselves. 
 Secondly, remove Primed Mods and Weapons from login rewards. Not everybody is gonna hit 500-600 days. Heck, some people might not even play to see Day 200. It feels like the best option here would to be introducing Syandanas or Armor Sets for fashion. Maybe even a color pallet every now and then? Just don't keep putting weapons and Primed Mods in the Login Rewards. 

 I do not expect a simple or easy fix for this, but I hope people understand my cause for concern and upset. I'm definitely not alone, as I've talked with several people and it makes them just as angry if not more so. So please discuss this, let's see if we can't get a fix for this! 

Thank you so much for your time and have a good day! 

Edited July 29, 2017 by -Mittens-

[Nez-Kal]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one...

I like the Mile Stone rewards the way they are, as the current counter to that is "Congrats on Sticking Around for 600 Days! Here's an Orokin Reactor, and...I don't know, Another Sigil!"

Those Primed Mods and Weapon Mile Stones actually FEEL like Mile Stones.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Tangent-Valley

[Chipputer]

Speed Trigger is 5% faster (which gives 10% to bows) and Vile Acceleration is 35% faster. Punch through is actively detrimental on a variety of rifle-mod-accepting weapons.

You have no issues. You're virtue signalling and making it seem like a bigger buff than it really is. There are already plenty of arguments about why Shred is actually not a beneficial mod on rifles (I don't agree with them but they're valid and there) and this doesn't change just because Primed Shred exists.

[MagPrime]

10 minutes ago, -Mittens- said:

 Essentially what I propose is two things. Firstly, give others who have played the game longer (may it be through hours, or some other measurement of time) a chance to catch up in login reward days. You wouldn't even have to give anybody the rewards you get in-between major milestones, just the milestones themselves. 
 Secondly, remove Primed Mods and Weapons from login rewards. Not everybody is gonna hit 500-600 days. Heck, some people might not even play to see Day 200. It feels like the best option here would to be introducing Syandanas or Armor Sets for fashion. Maybe even a color pallet every now and then? Just don't keep putting weapons and Primed Mods in the Login Rewards.

Yes, please.

There was another thread similar to this where it was suggested that we get not only cosmetic and fashionframe items, but also time gate skip tokens.  i.e., you get a single use token to bypass the wait time on one item.

I think those would be a far more motivating reward than anything else. 

[iPlayPwnsGames]

I fully support a change to the system, whether it be introducing fashion to the login tables and allowing the weapons and mods be obtainable by some other way, or just ditching the system and using mission hours as the tiers. Using mission hours as tiers would also encourage people to play the game instead of just logging in daily. I have almost 1000 mission hours, and yet, only 71 days. I would, as someone who wants to make their items as powerful as possible as fast as possible, really enjoy the mods locked behind a login wall. I really would love to use the login weapons and to number crunches with them myself, but I find myself getting burnt out long before that. Some may say I shouldn't have played so much to get burnt out, but I believe that I should not have to be punished for playing this game a lot as opposed to spreading my time out and logging in and keeping moderation.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that I am not a new player, I am a returning player from 2014, meaning I missed the start of this login system

Edited July 29, 2017 by iPlayPwnsGames

[PrincessMittens]

3 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one...

I like the Mile Stone rewards the way they are, as the counter to that is "Congrats on Sticking Around for 600 Days! Here's an Orokin Reactor, and...I don't know, Another Sigil!"

Those Primed Mods and Weapon Mile Stones actually FEEL like Mile Stones.

The problem is it's power creep locked behind, in this case, 600 days. People should not be actively punished for not being able to login everyday to get these things. I completely understand your counterargument, I really do, but like you I'm gonna have to disagree on this one :/ 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Speed Trigger is 5% faster (which gives 10% to bows) and Vile Acceleration is 35% faster. Punch through is actively detrimental on a variety of rifle-mod-accepting weapons.

You have no issues. You're virtue signalling and making it seem like a bigger buff than it really is. There are already plenty of arguments about why Shred is actually not a beneficial mod on rifles (I don't agree with them but they're valid and there) and this doesn't change just because Primed Shred exists.

The issue here is not only does it add fire rate, but it also adds Punch Through. Punch Through is really good for taking out crowds, like, incredibly good even. It's definitely not the most power creep thing we could've gotten, but I still think it's a problem because of the fact it just makes some guns automatically better. Guns like Supra/Supra Vandal, and ANY bow. A lot of people, myself included, don't really use it for just the fire rate but also the Punch Through. 

[Nez-Kal]

Added note: DE has proven where they stand on the whole "Well, THAT player DID have to wait 600 days to finally get the reward......so we won't change anything or else risk upsetting that individual" topic, so there's next to No Chance what-so-ever that they will change this system at all because of that. (I feel I don't need to remind you of the ever infamous "Mutagen Samples" Incident...)

Edited July 29, 2017 by Tangent-Valley

[Faulcun]

I disagree 100%.

I have 3000 hours in the game, I have zero interest in cosmetics, I own everything and therefore have no use for boosters/resources/credits/etc.

I am not the only player in this condition. Find a solution or alternative that fits our condition as well and ill get behind it.

Otherwise, this system is super simple. If you log in, you get a reward and it doesnt even have to be consecutive.

[AandOE]

I have no problems with Primed Shred, since I'm not going to be using it. Primed Vigor and Fury, I use on everything applicable. The weapons are interesting, and have their niche areas of use. Nifty sigils get stuck on the Operator the moment they're available, as a badge of honor, but won't make it on to the Warframe due to limited space. What is this saying? It's saying that what I do or don't consider to be 'good for me' is actually just subjective thought.

Boiling everything down, none of what is in the Login Reward System is 'needed'. P. Vigor? I can just use Vigor, or the Redirection/Vitality combo at the same level, since most of my damage is redirected using Link + Blessing. P. Fury? Berserker or regular Fury can still work just fine, since I use almost solely melee. The log-in weapons? Nope, they won't work for what I'll be using on 95%+ of the missions. I might be one voice in a sea of others, but I'm fairly certain that there are more folks out there like myself, ignoring what we don't want, and using what we do, from the rewards.

[iPlayPwnsGames]

Warframe: The game where nolives are punished.

Edited July 29, 2017 by iPlayPwnsGames

[Vaporoxgaming]

10 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

I disagree 100%.

I have 3000 hours in the game, I have zero interest in cosmetics, I own everything and therefore have no use for boosters/resources/credits/etc.

I am not the only player in this condition. Find a solution or alternative that fits our condition as well and ill get behind it.

Otherwise, this system is super simple. If you log in, you get a reward and it doesnt even have to be consecutive.

And how many players *AREN'T* in the same boat as you?  How many players look at the fact that you have to log in for almost two whole years to get one of, if not the best utility mod in the game?

[PhotonFreezer]

I agree 100%. The fact that weapons and mods are locked behind almost TWO years of logging in is ridiculous. I've seen the Zenith and have wanted it since it's an upgrade to the Braton Prime. However, people have said that it isn't the best so it's fine, but it's not. An upgrade to a weapon locked behind over a year of progress is just not right. I will admit I'm at 300ish days, and still think it's bad weapons and mods are locked behind this still isn't right. If they moved them I'd be fine. It's a case of people need to get over themselves and accept others may have an easier time than them getting items.

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, iPlayPwnsGames said:

Using mission hours as tiers would also encourage people to play the game instead of just logging in daily

I like this idea.

[Faulcun]

4 hours ago, Vaporoxgaming said:

And how many players *AREN'T* in the same boat as you?  How many players look at the fact that you have to log in for almost two whole years to get one of, if not the best utility mod in the game?

And how many players *ARE* in the same boat as me? The game has been around for over 4 years. Nobody has any real data to show how many are, or are not apart of either side of this.

Your argument is, disregard veteran players, give me now because i want it (even though i may not play your game for more than 200 days, as the OP suggests)

My argument is, it is not a race, its a personal journey. If you want to change it, find a solution that everybody can support. As of right now, I cannot support simply changing rewards to boosters, credits, sigils, cosmetics, resources, or any other useless crap that does nothing to further mine, or anybody else in my situation's progress in the game.

[Sahansral]

If'm thankful that DE gives us loyal veterans some toys. Changing the mechanism is bound to angry customers who aquired them by showing dedication to the game.

If you join a game years after it's release, exepect as new player to never be able to get some items (exclusives).

It's a given.

The rewards are not exlclusives and they are 0,00...0001 % of content. Especially new players have enough to do in this game, so they won't miss for their warframe experience.

And given time, if players stick to the game they will get those rewards, too.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Sahansral

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

What i do not understand is if not everyone is going to hit days 100+ login....what reason would you wsnt to remove the Milestone items for those who DO want to hit those days logging in? 

You got them but now want others to not have them? Izs this trying to make them EXCLUSIVE instead of INCLUSIVE? All one has to do, if they enjoy the game and are not the "bored" mentality state, is sign in and play the game over the course if 600 days to get to where you are. For some, this is a challenge to succeed in doing to show they are grateful for the game we play. Others see it as a challenge that they cannot have the things they wabt NOW and want DE to changr the system to make them have it immediately. 

The thing of it all is that the login system rewards are not NEEDED in the game to do anything different. If anything, they just change up how people play just a little bit. No one has made a build that is ULTRA SUPER EXTREME MEGA meta ++ that when they use these mods and weapons, the game says "GAME OVER...You have defeated WARFRAME". And yet, people act as if these Milestones will do that. I betcha most that want it NOW will not even use them when they get them more than 5-10 times before theg are bored abd move to the next new new thing that catches their fancy for a spell. 

As for cosmetics.....i am of the few players that were disappointed with the DEX cosmetic after getting some fun and beauties of weaponry the years before. If the 700 login is a cosmetic....i know i will take a pass on playing for a while and catch up on my backlog. Just as i would continue to play if the 700 reward was something i could USE in the game. That is just how people work- some are fine with something and some differ in that same matter. But at the end of the the 24 hour period we all share, we still gonna do what we have our minds set on in our own way allowed by DE. 

Login works as it means you showed up to the game that day even if for a minute. You CHOSE to sign in and do whatever you did and the Milestones are DE way of saying Thank You for signing in those days. 

[MagPrime]

10 hours ago, Faulcun said:

And how many players *ARE* in the same boat as me? The game has been around for over 4 years. Nobody has any real data to show how many are, or are not apart of either side of this.

Your argument is, disregard veteran players, give me now because i want it (even though i may not play your game for more than 200 days, as the OP suggests)

My argument is, it is not a race, its a personal journey. If you want to change it, find a solution that everybody can support. As of right now, I cannot support simply changing rewards to boosters, credits, sigils, cosmetics, resources, or any other useless crap that does nothing to further mine, or anybody else in my situation's progress in the game.

What about someones suggestion of using played hours?  Hit 100, you get x, 500, y, 1,000, z.

Such a feature would actually rwqars playing the game and benefit most veterans.

Edited July 29, 2017 by MagPrime

[Faulcun]

7 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

What about someones suggestion of using played hours?  Hit 100, you get x, 500, y, 1,000, z.

Such a feature would actually rwqars playing the game and benefit most veterans.

I could be fine with something like that. It would need to be fleshed out obviously.

But let me play devils advocate and use the OP's first paragraph with slightly different wording, as this will easily be the new norm of complaint. Tell me how you would respond to this:

" Primed Shred offers you essentially a Speed Trigger and a Metal Auger in one mod. This is a great mod, don't get me wrong, but there is one major problem. It's locked behind 3000 hours of gameplay. For people who want to get the very best numbers and performance out of their weapons, this mod is soul crushing because we don't have a way to catch-up in literal hours of playtime. There's people who've played the game for over 4 years but are probably not even at the Zenistar yet. It takes 0 effort to sit in a mission but afk timer stops the count and people cant stay awake for 24 hours every day.  it's rather cruel and unfair for those who missed days and couldnt play for whatever reason."

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

I could be fine with something like that. It would need to be fleshed out obviously.

But let me play devils advocate and use the OP's first paragraph with slightly different wording, as this will easily be the new norm of complaint. Tell me how you would respond to this:

" Primed Shred offers you essentially a Speed Trigger and a Metal Auger in one mod. This is a great mod, don't get me wrong, but there is one major problem. It's locked behind 3000 hours of gameplay. For people who want to get the very best numbers and performance out of their weapons, this mod is soul crushing because we don't have a way to catch-up in literal hours of playtime. There's people who've played the game for over 4 years but are probably not even at the Zenistar yet. It takes 0 effort to sit in a mission but afk timer stops the count and people cant stay awake for 24 hours every day.  it's rather cruel and unfair for those who missed days and couldnt play for whatever reason."

Well, I would respond much like most 600 login reward people have; it takes effort.  Because it does.  It is literally an earned reward, with moderate to hard work (depending on playstyle)  Just logging in takes, as many have pointed out, less than 5 minutes. 

We will never find the perfect system that makes everyone happy, but one that's based on played hours may make the most happy because it directly rewards people who play the game with some of the best power creep items, as opposed to ones who just login before server reset. 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Why do these threads keep cropping up? We are talking about a mod that did not exist until recently and is in no way game changing. This game has been around for 4+ years, and players have been able to complete all levels of content without it. The constant complaining about getting a free item for simply PLAYING the damn game is beyond absurd.

Threads like this just prove that gamers today will, quite literally, complain about anything.

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said:

The constant complaining about getting a free item for simply PLAYING the damn game

Except, no one is playing the game to get this reward.  Many have pointed out they take less than 5 minutes, just to log in to increase the counter.

As to the complaining, eh.  I'm really not invested in the topic, I just hit 295 days and am really not bothered by not having any of the coming mods or weapons.  I'm here because this is one of the more civil topics about right now, and the conversation is actually good.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Just now, MagPrime said:

Except, no one is playing the game to get this reward.  Many have pointed out they take less than 5 minutes, just to log in to increase the counter.

As to the complaining, eh.  I'm really not invested in the topic, I just hit 295 days and am really not bothered by not having any of the coming mods or weapons.  I'm here because this is one of the more civil topics about right now, and the conversation is actually good.

Maggie, I'm not addressing you in particular. This was just a general observation.

I get that some will just log in for their daily reward. But, the underlying assumption is, if you're logging into the game, you're doing so to actually play it. It's not such a far-fetched assumption to make.

Can it be abused? Absolutely. But so can any other rewards system. People will complain, regardless. There is no perfect system. The fact that a game even makes an attempt to reward players for showing some sort of commitment is rather commendable. And again, the complaint is made rather null and void when the reward does not impact gameplay in any significant way; particularly when players have gotten on just fine without it for such a long period of time already.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Maggie, I'm not addressing you in particular. This was just a general observation.

I get that some will just log in for their daily reward. But, the underlying assumption is, if you're logging into the game, you're doing so to actually play it. It's not such a far-fetched assumption to make.

Can it be abused? Absolutely. But so can any other rewards system. People will complain, regardless. There is no perfect system. The fact that a game even makes an attempt to reward players for showing some sort of commitment is rather commendable. And again, the complaint is made rather null and void when the reward does not impact gameplay in any significant way; particularly when players have gotten on just fine without it for such a long period of time already.

I didn't think you were, my apologies if it seemed that way.  I know if you're talking to me, you'll @ me or quote me.  ^.^

I agree with every point you've made, the system is designed to get people to log in and play, not just login, and Warframe has some of the best player rewards I've seen in 15  years of gaming. And you will never have a system that makes everyone happy, nor do the rewards actually impact game play.  (Beyond the...Zenistar?  IDK, I only have the Azima atm)

But, this system is detrimental to people who have limited time everyday to login but have hours upon hours to give on the weekends.  

If the system is supposed to reward people playing the game, shouldn't it be based on how long they've been playing the game? 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

59 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I didn't think you were, my apologies if it seemed that way.  I know if you're talking to me, you'll @ me or quote me.  ^.^

I agree with every point you've made, the system is designed to get people to log in and play, not just login, and Warframe has some of the best player rewards I've seen in 15  years of gaming. And you will never have a system that makes everyone happy, nor do the rewards actually impact game play.  (Beyond the...Zenistar?  IDK, I only have the Azima atm)

But, this system is detrimental to people who have limited time everyday to login but have hours upon hours to give on the weekends.  

If the system is supposed to reward people playing the game, shouldn't it be based on how long they've been playing the game? 

And I apologies as well, I feel like I came across too strong with that statement.

The thing about a game like Warframe, though, is it is a time investment. The amount of grind that exists within the game itself requires one to invest a great deal of time to acquire the items (assuming one does not wish to pay for it). The same applies to log-in rewards. Sure, changing it to amount of in-game hours could be an alternative, but the same type of people complaining now about the system will inevitably do the same with the "in-game hours" system. It's just 2 sides of the same coin: there is a time investment element to it.

As an aside, of all the weapon login rewards, the Zenistar is definitely the best. But, as with all the login rewards, it does not significantly impact gameplay in such a way that players that don't have it notice a decline in their enjoyment.

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

 

And I apologies as well, I feel like I came across too strong with that statement.

The thing about a game like Warframe, though, is it is a time investment. The amount of grind that exists within the game itself requires one to invest a great deal of time to acquire the items (assuming one does not wish to pay for it). The same applies to log-in rewards. Sure, changing it to amount of in-game hours could be an alternative, but the same type of people complaining now about the system will inevitably do the same with the "in-game hours" system. It's just 2 sides of the same coin: there is a time investment element to it.

As an aside, of all the weapon login rewards, the Zenistar is definitely the best. But, as with all the login rewards, it does not significantly impact gameplay in such a way that players that don't have it notice a decline in their enjoyment.

I agree with the time investment, Hek, I'm over 1,200 hours in lol and yes, people will always complain.

idk, I still think things that grant affinity shouldn't be locked behind anything, and if the login system is intended to reward people playing, then it should be based on people playing the game.  Granted, people are fully capable of hitting MR 24 without the login weapons, Founders gear or closed beta items (one of my clanmates just hit MR 24 and IIRC, he joined after I did) but still, it bugs me. 

Consistency is a good thing and makes me happy.  If it's labeled as one thing, it should function as it's labeled.

/shrug