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Serious issues with the Login System (and Primed Shred)


PrincessMittens
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7 hours ago, VonDodo said:

 

This is an action game not a mmorpg... its OK to give aesthetic rewards to veterans (i am not that far from it either) its NOT OK to give mandatory mods to them.

 

Nothing remotely 'mandatory' has been given out of a login reward.

We've gotten along just fine for 4+ years without Primed Vigor and Primed Shred. The former can open up some build options, but most players (mistakenly) ignore survivability mods anyway and Primed Shred doesn't change anything for primaries other than a slight increase in DPS and a big increase in forma usage.

Is there another primed login mod I've missed? I can't remember. Yeah, they're that significant.

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1 hour ago, Momaw said:

Stating that login rewards don't require dedication to get because they only require logins, not play time, seems wrong. Who is going to take the effort to log into a game that they aren't playing or caring about every single day for that long?

I also brought that point forward. No surprise that it got ignored.  I'm sure there are a number of people who do this. I think they're nuts and have life priority issues, but hey, they have the right to be nuts. Far be it for me to condemn them. But in no way do I believe their number is large enough to even matter, let alone to be used as an argument in this thread. They can't represent a big chunk of the player base. Again, we don't have the numbers, only DE can see that. Saying you heard 5 people doing it means squat.

I log in everyday because I can and because want to play a game I like. The life I have permits me to do this. I'm not doing it for the login rewards, they're just a coincidental bonus.

Had I another type of lifestyle that prevents me from playing videogames regularly (or barely at all), then I'd definitely have my life priorities in another order, and owning a bunch of virtual zeroes and ones in a videogame would hardly be in the top 10. Not exactly something to get upset about to blow an artery if you don't own stuff in them, since such a life doesn't allow you to play videogames all that much anyway.

And no, Shred vs. Primed Shred does not make a big gap in player experience. It is actually a very tiny numerical crack. I tested it. My Shred weapons are now Primed Shred weapons. They're still just as deadly. The performance difference is barely noticeable.

 

Another thing I'd like to add, how using hours played is flawed. These rewards are given as a sign of dedication. Dedication here means "a player who keeps coming back and plays our game regularly".
Player A binges the game for 1 month every day racking up 240 hours then doesn't play the game for 3 months.
Player B casually plays the game each 2 days for an hour for 4 months, taking 120 hours total.

Player A has double the hours but has logged in a lot less.
Player B has less hours but has logged in a lot because they play the game regularly.  <-- this is a dedicated player. 

So using hours as a measurement is incorrect. You can't measure dedication that way.

Edited by MystMan
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I think the system should stay as it is, however I recognize that should this game survive for 10 more years, I can understand the argument of a player just starting at the 10 year mark.

I think the argument of a player turning away simply because of login rewards is ridiculous and completely silly.  However, this is a game based on micro transactions. Therefore id be open to the idea of players paying money to skip ahead.

I propose $1.50 or 25 platinum per day skipped.

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On 7/28/2017 at 8:26 PM, -Mittens- said:

but all this has done is made me feel bad for owning it. 

If you really feel bad about owning it, you can always delete it and set your mind to ease.

On 7/28/2017 at 8:26 PM, -Mittens- said:

It's locked behind 600 Login Days. For people who want to get the very best numbers and performance out of their weapons, this mod is soul crushing because we don't have a way to catch-up in login days. 

It's a reward for loyalty.

It's a special reward for special players.

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2 hours ago, MystMan said:

Another thing I'd like to add, how using hours played is flawed. These rewards are given as a sign of dedication. Dedication here means "a player who keeps coming back and plays our game regularly".
Player A binges the game for 1 month every day racking up 240 hours then doesn't play the game for 3 months.
Player B casually plays the game each 2 days for an hour for 4 months, taking 120 hours total.

Player A has double the hours but has logged in a lot less.
Player B has less hours but has logged in a lot because they play the game regularly.  <-- this is a dedicated player. 

So using hours as a measurement is incorrect. You can't measure dedication that way

Thank you!!!

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9 hours ago, MystMan said:

as a sign of dedication. Dedication here means "a player who keeps coming back and plays our game regularly".
Player A binges the game for 1 month every day racking up 240 hours then doesn't play the game for 3 months.
Player B casually plays the game each 2 days for an hour for 4 months, taking 120 hours total.

Player A has double the hours but has logged in a lot less.
Player B has less hours but has logged in a lot because they play the game regularly.  <-- this is a dedicated player. 

So using hours as a measurement is incorrect. You can't measure dedication that way.

 

The only Issue I see though is for veteran players, like myself, who maybe are just waiting for some content updates. I've put in a ton of in-mission hours,, and I've been around since very early on in Warframe's life. I'm MR 24, I've done the raids, I've leveled every frame and weapon (Aside from the Zenith), I've pretty much done everything there is to do.  I don't have too much incentive to log in until a content update hits with more stuff for me to do. Have I not shown my loyalty and dedication yet?  I do still log in here and there to mess with builds, maybe help out a friend or a new player. It's not like I don't regularly play the game. I've put WAY more hours into Warframe than any other game I've ever played. I feel like, when it comes to things like Primed Mods and weapons (even if they are Mastery Fodder) I should be in a position to have instant access to them, considering I have nothing else to do. I've earned my place in the front of the line. It takes no time for someone to just log in. It doesn't even take that much commitment. Literally just open launcher, hit play, and type in your password. Commitment is taking the time to go through all of the content that Warframe has to offer, along with every single update that is released. 

 

Another thing to consider; Things like the Hema. Its very time consuming to obtain (without paying), however its possible. It's something that you can slowly work for. When you finally get all of that Mutagen, your work is payed off with a very strong weapon. Now say I want the Zenith...I just have to log in, log out, wait 24 hours...log in, log out, wait 24 hours...there's no gameplay, nothing I can actively work towards. I have no incentive to actually play the game. I can't even use plat to buy the dang thing! I could totally understand if players were to have the weapon in their eyes as they are working on obtaining all the other things in the game, but i have nothing else to work on. Heck, I'd be okay with prime Shred being sold by Baro every time he appears, but for an absolutely crazy amount of Ducats. I can actually play the game to work towards getting those Ducats. Or you know, I'll just sit here and do the bare minimum while I wait for over 100 days to pass...log in, log out, wait 24 hours...log in, log out, wait 24 hours...

 

TL;DR

Make it possible to get login rewards elsewhere, but for very high costs. Veteran players will have something to do and work towards while actually playing the game, and newer players can obtain these rewards just by logging in, collecting resources, advancing the star chart, etc every day.

 

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Also people need to stop saying cosmetic items "aren't enough" as a reward. It's a login bonus, a bonus, DE aren't even obliged to give anything (they certainly didn't during the first few years of the game).

Stop making it sound like logging in is a gruesome arduous task to accomplish, let alone actually playing the game which must have been a torture so players need to be rewarded so damn dearly for it.

Elitism feels awesome, been there done that. It's not that bad to get out of it, really.

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24 minutes ago, Wesgile said:

Also people need to stop saying cosmetic items "aren't enough" as a reward. It's a login bonus, a bonus, DE aren't even obliged to give anything (they certainly didn't during the first few years of the game).

Stop making it sound like logging in is a gruesome arduous task to accomplish, let alone actually playing the game which must have been a torture so players need to be rewarded so damn dearly for it.

Elitism feels awesome, been there done that. It's not that bad to get out of it, really.

Cosmetics are good for reward but not for the every 100 day tier only in the every X50 tier. You know the tiers we continously get sigils from.

 

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On 7/29/2017 at 6:39 AM, Tangent-Valley said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one...

I like the Mile Stone rewards the way they are, as the current counter to that is "Congrats on Sticking Around for 600 Days! Here's an Orokin Reactor, and...I don't know, Another Sigil!"

Those Primed Mods and Weapon Mile Stones actually FEEL like Mile Stones.

Yeah, reason why I stuck around till Zenith but they did 3 weapon types already, what's next? A Warframe locked behind log-ins? Because Primed Shred really doesn't feel worth it to many people. I was for the log in rewards until Zenith since unique mechanic and whatnot, A special weapon for those who A. Bothered to Log in every day and B. Have been playing for way over a year.

But honestly, mods like Primed Shred doesn't feel worth 600 days. 

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1 minute ago, .Zel said:

Yeah, reason why I stuck around till Zenith but they did 3 weapon types already, what's next? A Warframe locked behind log-ins? Because Primed Shred really doesn't feel worth it to many people. I was for the log in rewards until Zenith since unique mechanic and whatnot, A special weapon for those who A. Bothered to Log in every day and B. Have been playing for way over a year.

But honestly, mods like Primed Shred doesn't feel worth 600 days. 

Actually, I think it'll be a Syandana next. Would make the most sense after all the weapons and Sigils.

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17 minutes ago, Wesgile said:

Also people need to stop saying cosmetic items "aren't enough" as a reward. It's a login bonus, a bonus, DE aren't even obliged to give anything (they certainly didn't during the first few years of the game).

Stop making it sound like logging in is a gruesome arduous task to accomplish, let alone actually playing the game which must have been a torture so players need to be rewarded so damn dearly for it.

Elitism feels awesome, been there done that. It's not that bad to get out of it, really.

Thats not what people are saying.

Some people are suggesting to change rewards to cosmetics under the premise that that should satisfy everybody because its nice and has nothing to do with mastery or power creep. Other players are simply responding that they have no real interest, such as myself, in cosmetics or "fashion frame" and that other players shouldnt make decisions for everybody else who clearly dont feel the same way. It has absolutely nothing to do with elitism.

See, I was around during a time when the login reward did not include the special mods or weapons we have now. You basically got credits or resources... maybe a weapon blueprint from the market that you havent built yet or something. People complained because all they got was useless crap every day, especially when they have been playing for more than two years to begin with. DE wanted to do something nice for those who were dedicated players, and play the game regularly. So the current system was created.

Now people are complaining the rewards are TOO good, and are making suggestions that dont take into account anybody who is not a new or returning player. I have only seen two suggestions here that even remotely address the ENTIRE playerbase. One is expensive, and the other has major flaws and is susceptible to massive abuse... which nobody has attempted to work out as of yet. 

 

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1 minute ago, .Zel said:

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..........That's even worse.

Eh, they're not likely to EVER lock a Warframe behind a wall like that. Would be immediate "DE Loves Founder more than Newer Players!" and "Oh, way to Paywall us on a Warframe, DE" fuel for the Forums.
(Like, they moves Nezha from the Sortie pool too)

 

I'm just saying it's likely to be a FashionFrame item, as that's something everyone understands and is mostly okay with being locked behind paywalls and "Exclusives".

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5 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

Thats not what people are saying.

Some people are suggesting to change rewards to cosmetics under the premise that that should satisfy everybody because its nice and has nothing to do with mastery or power creep. Other players are simply responding that they have no real interest, such as myself, in cosmetics or "fashion frame" and that other players shouldnt make decisions for everybody else who clearly dont feel the same way. It has absolutely nothing to do with elitism.

See, I was around during a time when the login reward did not include the special mods or weapons we have now. You basically got credits or resources... maybe a weapon blueprint from the market that you havent built yet or something. People complained because all they got was useless crap every day, especially when they have been playing for more than two years to begin with. DE wanted to do something nice for those who were dedicated players, and play the game regularly. So the current system was created.

Now people are complaining the rewards are TOO good, and are making suggestions that dont take into account anybody who is not a new or returning player. I have only seen two suggestions here that even remotely address the ENTIRE playerbase. One is expensive, and the other has major flaws and is susceptible to massive abuse... which nobody has attempted to work out as of yet. 

 

This is exactly how i feel, I was around that time and i didn't mind much about the daily crap as i didn't feel the need to log in everyday but it also did made me feel like long term players are not getting anything worthwhile.

Basically what it comes down to is that, if you try to satisfy one side then the other will be disappointed. I have been playing for a long time and put a lot of thought to this, there is truly no way to satisfy both sides, DE must pick one side and stick with it.

1 Apple, 2 sides, Both sides want the apple but only one side can have it.

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2 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Eh, they're not likely to EVER lock a Warframe behind a wall like that. Would be immediate "DE Loves Founder more than Newer Players!" and "Oh, way to Paywall us on a Warframe, DE" fuel for the Forums.
(Like, they moves Nezha from the Sortie pool too)

 

I'm just saying it's likely to be a FashionFrame item, as that's something everyone understands and is mostly okay with being locked behind paywalls and "Exclusives".

Im not ok with it.

Everybody realizes "fashion frame" started as a joke right? It was a joke because 4 years into this game and there is no substantial end game content... that people have been complaining about since 6 months after it started... and the only thing you can do is try to make your frame look good with cosmetics because what else is there to do...

The silly scarf for the 4 year anniversary was massively disappointing to me. However, if thats what they decide to do for the 700 day, well so be it. Ill still log in because i enjoy the game and ill naturally get it anyways. Itll just turn into a system of useless crap again like it was two years ago.

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The only thing about Primed Vigor and Primed Shred is: You can´t sell them for Plats! I see no use for this mods. They´re just novelty mods. Brings nothing to the game.

For me it was a bit disapointing getting this reward (s), as I don´t need them. Every single reward weapon we got on PS4 they didn´t Work as intended leaving a bad taste that you faithfully logon and play the game you get broken weapons and mods many would like to own (despite knowing they make absoletly nothing that other mods can do).

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OK, my 2 cents.

I started playing Warframe around 3 years ago, and have almost 3000 hours game time, and am about 10 days away from prime shred.

The log in system is there to reward players for returning, day after day, which I usually do.

At this point in the game I have just about every mod (except prime chamber, oddly enough) and have used every item I wanted to use (am Mr 21, because some weapons I look at and can't see the point of using, and some frames I had the prime variant before the non prime, so saw no point in building the non prime)

The log in rewards are nice, it's great that DE like to reward loyalty. But linking it to hours played COULD (not would) be detrimental to player lifespan (not real life span 😉) after all the time I have played, I often feel a little burned out. I try out new content when it's available, help others in my clan, and work on maximising my builds often, but once most of those are done, and I grow tired endurance runs in new missions, or farming out the nice new mods, what am I supposed to do? If the log in rewards were tied to actual in game mission time, my rate of progression would stagnate very fast. 

Although very loyal to this game which I adore, sometimes I log on just to check on my arsenals building.

Let's say there is a new infested weapon, and it requires 10 mutagen mass, I can log on each day, building those masses and collect my log in rewards as I go, but don't feel punished for not doing anything in game, as its completely pointless for me. I have simply done it all. The only thing I need to do is wait for this mutagen mass to be built so I can use the nice new weapon. If the log in reward was tied to actual hours, I would feel obliged to play, and then would become more and more tired of the game, and may even give up entirely whilst waiting for new content.

Whilst we are on the subject of elitism, some of you may call me a snowflake, or something, but there are many items in Warframe that required a lot of effort to get which are now regularly available to anyone. Event weapons are a good example. I was there when the original operations or tactical alerts were running for things like strun wraith, wraith twin vipers, quanta vandal, and many many others. I worked hard, in many missions that were so much harder than just a few invasion missions for the parts like now.

I farmed elytron the hard way, running archwing interceptions over and over and over again to get the wings to drop before it was added to the dojo.

My clan worked very hard to ensure we got the ignis wraith blue print available in our dojo.

But much of this feels like a wasted effort as many of these rewards are available through baro, or invasions, or can simply be traded. 

Why did I work so hard for these operations/tactical alerts/grinds when others will gain these items without any where near the same amount of effort?

There are plenty of items I was unable to get as I simply wasn't playing Warframe at the time, and I never understand the people who complain they would never be able to get it (obviously this complaint has mostly disappeared now that the rewards are available from invasions etc) I DID THE REAL ORIGINAL HARD WORK!! 

OK, so there are people who feel it's unfair they hadn't discovered Warframe back then. So what. Somewhere in the future, I will put Warframe down, and likely never look back. When new players join and complete events after I have left, I won't be complaining they had access to something I never had!

 

Lastly I want to point out that a huge part of my joy in playing Warframe comes from the reward mechanic. Getting the rare prime part to drop. Completing the tactical alerto pop 

Getting on the operation leader boardsp plop p pop 

Getting the gold trophy for the dojo.

Every year, these rewards seem more diminished as players complain about the difficulty acquiring them. They love having the latest newest gear, and want them how ever they can get them, but won't get the satisfaction and excitement of getting that super rare item, because their constant complaints of elitism make DE decided to make it easier to get.

When I started playing, it was hard to get most prime Warframes, taking many many runs for most of the parts. It could take weeks, even months to get certain things. Now you could probably farm all the prime stuff in a few months! Once that's done, how long you gonna play after?

 

 

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I played for 18 months? logged in nearly every day. quit the game for 6 months came back and started at zero.

now i'm at 240 days despite thousands of hours played. While I don't need any of the stuff to be effective in game it does seem pretty stupid There is no way to get at any of it, without some hamster wheel grind.

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I think in the future DE will open up a way to acquire timed rewards in a more personal interest manner.  By that I mean tokens that are used to purchase exclusive items.  By that, I mean like 50-100 freaking tokens to purchase these exclusive items, and you get only 1 token per day, and they're not trade-able.

Alternatively they could just stop handing stuff out at day 1095.  Three full years of daily log-ins is long enough to earn a time themed warframe and call it quits on the whole milestone thing, right?

Honestly, people (largely, the "haves") can say "you don't really need them" all they want, people (the "have nots") are going to look at these exclusives they'll literally have to wait years for, logging in every single day, and feel a little disenchanted, especially the newbies.  The greater the time gap, the worse it will get.  Lotus help DE if any of the rewards turn out to be META weapons/mods.  I trust DE to produce balanced content about as much as I trust politicians to actually change policies to benefit the common citizen first and foremost, not as a coincidence.

 

Edited by Littleman88
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