Ivara Navigator Is Useless with most projectiles

[Evan_Johnson]

I know this has probably been stated before somewhere in the forums but I am reiterating it again so hopefully it will catch the Dev's attention. I have close to 400 hours in warframe on PC  and around 500 on PS4. Ivara is my second most played warframe. The only time I am able to use Ivara's navigator is with a glaive ability because it uses just the right amount of speed. All other projectiles are either too fast or too slow.  If you add a projectile speed mod to your bow then this ability is useless. Here are some major issue a player mentioned on the forums in June. I just copied and pasted but totally agree with:

1. Mini map does not follow the projectile. I spend more time on searching enemies than actually hitting them.

2. Motion blur makes it hard to aim or spot enemies. Also results in wasting time and energy.

3. Player has very little control over projectile speed. When I  was using Navigator with Dread, there are only two speed options: fast and super fast. Player cannot slow down the projectile and there is no transition between fast and super fast. It's usable in open maps, but a lot of tile sets have small room and narrow hallways. It's difficult to navigate with such speed. If player misses a target, he will end up spending a lot of time adjusting direction and thus wasting a lot of energy.If you could make it to slow it down or speed up as much as you want but do it gradually that might help. 

 

 

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[DarkRuler2500]

I agree, most projectiles cannot make real use of Navigator.
Try it with Throwable Melees or the Miter, those work quite well.

[Evan_Johnson]

1 minute ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I agree, most projectiles cannot make real use of Navigator.
Try it with Throwable Melees or the Miter, those work quite well.

I can only use her with the glaive which is the only melee weapon i use for her. I forgot to put it that it would be nice if you could toggle the ability so you didn't have to recast it every time you fired a shot. 

[Doxorn]

Well Ivara's navigator is kinda forgotten. You are better off just killing the enemies regularly than trying to use your Navigator.

 

Would be better if it would be replaced with something like: While activated Ivara's projectiles seek out enemies if the enemy is maximum of 1/2/3/4 meters away from the projectile

Edited August 6, 2017 by Doxorn

[Evan_Johnson]

9 minutes ago, Doxorn said:

Well Ivara's navigator is kinda forgotten. You are better off just killing the enemies regularly than trying to use your Navigator.

The reason its forgotten is because its useless ability with most projectiles which is why this is being posted.  It works great with a glaive, I can cut down a couple dozen high lvl 90 -100 enemies in one throw easily. I would like to be able to do that with bows though since she is an archer warframe.  Plus I like controlling the projectiles, it works great with stealth. It just needs the tweaking that was mentioned. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Evan_Johnson

[DarkRuler2500]

2 hours ago, Doxorn said:

Well Ivara's navigator is kinda forgotten. You are better off just killing the enemies regularly than trying to use your Navigator.

Would be better if it would be replaced with something like: While activated Ivara's projectiles seek out enemies if the enemy is maximum of 1/2/3/4 meters away from the projectile

This sounds nice first but could prove rather underwhelming vs. clustered enemies when you cannot shoot through to the Healer etc. and hit the trash.

But anyway, Navigator is currently lacking a bit of punch. The augment is nice but in my eyes this should've been already inside the base ability.

[tfninja]

I've never used navigator for damage. I use it all the time to land stealth and sleep for team mates on interception etc, but i have NEVER found that firing a normal arrow, even with shred, passes through enemies. It always just stops at the first enemy.

[PsiWarp]

I wish that Navigator actually worked with multishot in mind. Ivara controls one projectile while other ones orbit/follow the guided missile. Imagine how much more useful Navigator can be with Artemis Bow (and other weapons).

[Klavinmour]

Left Click makes the projectile go faster, Right Click makes it go slower.

Turn off Motion Blur, never have it on, there is no reason for it to even exist, we don't have motion blur in our vision in real life so get it out of here.

 

[Shabach]

You should try navigator with the Zenistar projectile ;) That's a good time right there.

[DatDarkOne]

Navigator is also very useful with the Lenz.  :D

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 8/7/2017 at 2:53 PM, DatDarkOne said:

Navigator is also very useful with the Lenz.  :D

I was going to say Tonkor

(Anxiously awaiting Lenz)*

I strongly agree with turning off Motion Blur

I think it would probably be better if Navigator had default flight-speeds independent of the projectiles normal flight speed. (Possibly with a toggle where it has 3 predefined toggle speeds similar to Lanka 3 scope settings)*

I wonder if a Mandachord projectile setup menu would work best for Ivara.

Maybe even let you change the cycle order of quiver arrows.

[Fallen_Echo]

The best way to use it, is to get the new augment and the zenistar.

After it you can pretend that its a beyblade.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

Ivara is a stealth frame.  Navigator has its use just not for tanky purposes.  whenever you cast it you have a 2x multiplier and that's intended to ensure you get the kill at a certain distance.  it takes time to master it but it's not a bad ability when you use it in favorable scenarios.

[Nerf_SupYo]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:52 AM, PsiWarp said:

I wish that Navigator actually worked with multishot in mind. Ivara controls one projectile while other ones orbit/follow the guided missile. Imagine how much more useful Navigator can be with Artemis Bow (and other weapons).

^ multishot. Please please please, as is you can amp up the damage to 10x and beyond, if you're willing to lose your multishot...pffftttt.

[yles9056]

I think that was my post 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/806976-can-we-talk-about-ivaras-navigator/

 

I made another post later which give more detailed analyze and suggestions for Navigator. If you are interested, you can take a look.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/850481-ivara-could-use-some-polishing/?tab=comments#comment-9024002

 

Navigator definitely needs some adjustment.

Edited November 6, 2017 by yles9056

[Dakaranqc]

Hi guys,

 

My main is Ivara by far and I just absolutely love her fighting style, cloaking ability and the diversity of tools she has available to face most situations.  Her sniping skills are out of this world plus she can come unscratched on the other side of a melee brawl after destroying every monsters on her path with Prowl and can fight with this skill like in a action movie! XD I can do some crazy stuff in defense missions and main story. 

 

About this ability: Navigator.

I found out personally that you can adjust the speed to very slow/super fast with the mouse buttons left/right as they are now. Navigator is insanely good and cool to use with Cerata and the glaives. It could be improved a bit but still works well as it is. I can chew through a crowd of monsters or just blatantly kill anything with the damage multiplier as I see fit. It also can be used with projectiles like arrows but needs practice. She is very technical to play as is and even more so using those skills while wielding a throwing weapon like the glaives to melee and throw. No worries there because I keep that bow very close for when I need it.

 

The only thing I'd change is allowing her to combine/combo the use of her powers a bit more with the Prime version when it comes out. That would be a nice perk, yep! :) 

If you've mastered this skill and you play really well knowing what you're doing this is definitely not a waste of space having it ready.  Glaive or arrows it gets the shot/job done.   I gotta master movement, wall climb, slide and aim in mid air while learning combos and channeling to get the best out of everything she has to offer. Not to mention swapping weapons quickly because she is excellent with not only one weapon!!!

 

Crossbow/Bow/Cerata   /Shade / Empowered Blades

 

Dak

Edited November 6, 2017 by Dakaranqc

[DatDarkOne]

53 minutes ago, Dakaranqc said:

The only thing I'd change is allowing her to combine/combo the use of her powers a bit more with the Prime version when it comes out. That would be a nice perk, yep! :) 

They already do.  Navigator's damage bonuses can stack with Prowl's.  Same with her Artemis Bow with both of those.  Navigator can also control all of her Quiver Arrows although the effect on Dashwire is questionable.  

You can get multiple bonuses of Prowl, Navigator, and Stealth melee with Glaive-types and Zenistar.  

Edited November 6, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I think navigator should have a set speed for all projectiles independent from projectile speed, with increasing and decreasing speed controlled by mouse buttons (bumpers for controllers) up to the projectile's real speed. This solves every problem the ability has without taking away any of the perks it has.

The reason why navigator works so well for glaives is because that is what the ability was initially designed for. In case you didn't know. Navigator is an ability imported from DE's previous game Dark Sector, considered by many to be Warframe's long lost ancestor (it's a great game. Try it out). Your character (Hayden Tenno) had an infested arm that grew glaives for you to throw. You can get a perk called Aftertouch that lets you control the glaive when you throw it. Aftertouch became so popular, that it made the list in IGN's top 10 coolest video game weapons. Its probably why when they put the ability in warframe, it worked so well with navigator, because that is what it was designed for. Same goes with dual weilding glaive and pistol, which is another aspect taken from dark sector, which functions so well in warframe. It's so nostalgic that even the crosshairs from dark sector dual wielding a glaive were carried over into warframe.

Taking this into account, i think that having all weapons fly at the speed of a glaive in navigator works wonders for the ability, and then have it increase from there to the weapons real time speed adjusted by the player.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

Yes

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 8/6/2017 at 4:34 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

I agree, most projectiles cannot make real use of Navigator.
Try it with Throwable Melees or the Miter, those work quite well.

Or gas Zenistar disc and wipe out level 150 bombards like its nothing. 

While invisible because why not?

[Nerf_SupYo]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:31 AM, ghandibots said:

^ multishot. Please please please, as is you can amp up the damage to 10x and beyond, if you're willing to lose your multishot...pffftttt.

Anyone? What valid reason is there for multishot to not be included in navigator's dmg?

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 8/7/2017 at 2:59 AM, Klavinmour said:

Turn off Motion Blur, never have it on, there is no reason for it to even exist, we don't have motion blur in our vision in real life so get it out of here.

Yes we do...

lol

[ShogunGunshow]

Energy drain also scales up absurdly quickly. Even if you have the projectile at a controllable speed and aren't having a seizure caused by pingponging in corridors, the energy drain makes it incredibly inefficient, even with maxed efficiency.

Personally, I'd make these changes: 

1) Pull the camera back.

2) Projectiles under Navigator control no longer Ricochet. If you hit a wall, you grind on that wall, sending sparks everywhere.

3) As part of 2, projectiles with punch-through can now puncture through closed doors.

4) Energy drain escalation rate reduced by 75-90%. 

[Pyradus]

Needs to work with multishot. One of the things that kills its usefulness to me is that it only controls one multishot projectile. This already cuts the damage to 1/2 or 1/3 a normal shot, making the damage multiplier matter that much less.

Suggestions:

- Navigator takes control of the 'flock' of multishot projectiles together

- Navigator compresses all the projectiles into a single one that equals the damage of all of them

More suggestions:

- Have it work with hitscan weapons by granting them a generic projectile

Edited November 9, 2017 by CapnToaster