Why every one is telling me that ash's 4 is useless

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

There are about a dozen threads in the Warframe feedback section asking for the same Ash rework, his BS. Just saying. The afk cut scnces,  "death marking" , and the over the top and obnoxious energy cost for BS needs to go. It needs to be replaced completely as well as his 1 that is completely inaccurate. There is no logical reason for those abilities to be in a game like Warframe. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

45 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

 

No, some people are just voicing their opinions. The rest are indirectly white knighting for DE.

 

Bladestorm was always a poor ability due to the cutscene spam and making enemies invincible, but before the change it at least did what it did without being a pain to use and without costing immense amounts of energy. Now, it's a pain to use, costs immense amounts of energy, and STILL makes enemies invincible while spamming cutscenes. Anyone that defends THAT cannot be trusted with anything. Bladestorm is on the same tier as Tempest Barrage now, something that vaping hipsters talk about how much they like because no one else with any sense uses it.

The cut-scene part of bladestorm is what makes it really good, think about it. Your killing a whole room of enemies while also collecting ammo, energy, resources, and BPs around the room and while your doing this you won't take a single point of damage  from anything.

I'm on console and no joke it's takes me like 3 seconds to mark an entire group of enemies three times, is it really that much of a pain to cast it?

Enemies who are immune to damage from bladestorm are also stuck in a animation so ash's teammates are in no danger because of this, and thanks to the change ash teammates just have to wait 1-3 seconds which if that makes you impatient then that's more of your fault than bladestorm's. 

There are so many ways to deal with energy cost like efficiency + invis or just use zenurik if you don't build with duration and boom y'll never have to worry about energy

So your telling me that even tho bladestorm can kill lvl 100 enemies it's still on par with an ability that can't kill above lvl 30 and relys on RNG to even hit enemies? Your definitely trolling me bro.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Kierlak]

5 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

I didn't like old Ash, but I like new Ash, primarily because his 4 is now integrated into his combat. I'm really confused as to why you're so dedicated to calling Bladestorm bad despite being presented with facts and experience from other Tenno who use it effectively and find it to be very strong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you just don't know how to get good use out of it.

 

The best way to use Bladestorm Ash is to bring a different frame and not be a vaping hipster. All of his abilities are terrible and/or buggy, and lean painfully hard on their augments to have any relevance, while Bladestorm itself is either used as some sort of passive afterthought of an ability or with grand mal levels of mouse seizure to target things in any sort of acceptable timeframe. 

 

You can sit around here in your white knight echo chamber and dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like, but no one that isn't part of your cult is going to buy any of your S#&$. They already know Ash is not worth using anymore other than out of spite, and he was barely worth using before Bladestorm was nerfed.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, Kierlak said:

You can sit around here in your white knight echo chamber and dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like, but no one that isn't part of your cult is going to buy any of your S#&$

Why are you insulting him/her and everybody who actually likes current bladestorm. You literally showed up and called every body who believes bladestorm is fine a bunch of white knight. You need to leave your cage of ignorance and intolerance and go outside friend.

[SenorClipClop]

35 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

The best way to use Bladestorm Ash is to bring a different frame and not be a vaping hipster. All of his abilities are terrible and/or buggy, and lean painfully hard on their augments to have any relevance, while Bladestorm itself is either used as some sort of passive afterthought of an ability or with grand mal levels of mouse seizure to target things in any sort of acceptable timeframe. 

You can sit around here in your white knight echo chamber and dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like, but no one that isn't part of your cult is going to buy any of your S#&$. They already know Ash is not worth using anymore other than out of spite, and he was barely worth using before Bladestorm was nerfed.

Calm down, Tenno. Namecalling isn't really needed here, is it? I like Ash (now), but it's not like I'm going to marry him or anything. Nobody's paying me to be positive, I haven't formed a cult with anyone, and I'm not trying to browbeat anyone into agreeing with me. If a Tenno doesn't want to play Ash, that's totally okay. But if someone is calling Ash bad, and that's something I disagree with, I'm going to assert the argument that Ash is not bad. Insulting me personally isn't going to change that.

All I'm doing is presenting the facts. Ash is alright. He has some interesting gameplay mechanics, his combat is fun (imo) and he deals buckets of damage. If you like, we can go over your points of contention with Bladestorm and Ash, and I'll present the facts that back up my argument. Would this be okay?

 

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

39 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

 

The best way to use Bladestorm Ash is to bring a different frame and not be a vaping hipster. All of his abilities are terrible and/or buggy, and lean painfully hard on their augments to have any relevance, while Bladestorm itself is either used as some sort of passive afterthought of an ability or with grand mal levels of mouse seizure to target things in any sort of acceptable timeframe. 

 

You can sit around here in your white knight echo chamber and dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like, but no one that isn't part of your cult is going to buy any of your S#&$. They already know Ash is not worth using anymore other than out of spite, and he was barely worth using before Bladestorm was nerfed.

Jesus, spite indeed....

Why do you hate people this much?

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Kierlak said:

You can sit around here in your white knight echo chamber and dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like, but no one that isn't part of your cult is going to buy any of your S#&$. They already know Ash is not worth using anymore other than out of spite, and he was barely worth using before Bladestorm was nerfed.

Uhhh, you seem to be highly offended that others like the rework.  Everyone has been voicing their opinions in a fairly respectful way except for you.  My advice would be to calm yourself.  It's not that serious.  

[-CCC-Secret]

1 hour ago, Kierlak said:

dogpile anyone that disagrees with you all you like

 

Practice what you preach? You're doing the exact same, though.

@SenorClipClop does have valid points. I for one was against the current Blade Storm, but now I've been experimenting with builds to fit the current Ash and my playstyle. His passive is really good for slash oriented melees, which I prefer. I'm thinking of actually building for Rising Storm with my Naramon and Atterax/Galatine Prime or Nikana Prime. I can already see a build working out for me, and it actually uses current Blade Storm.

[UrielColtan]

Ash is pretty lackluster, defending little more than a neuturing to his 4 and neglecting to do anything about his cutscenes, which Steve claimed was something he wanted to address, is just going to make sure it will be a long time before Ash gets fixed and will assure that he remains stale or has little purpose. Ash was already able to do all the things people in here,most of which seemingly didn't really play Ash before (and thus clearly did not care if he got shafted.), are praising his 4 for in this topic. The same stuff just now takes longer to do, meanwhie other AOE abilities don't have this lame limitation, nor do people have to watch a cutscene for their effect.

Preferably, I would like Ash's 4 to be replaced with some sort of channeled state, where I get to, say, do exclusive Ninja Gaiden esque swift melee and leaps/flips around the place with smoke/mist trails around Ash, or something in that ball park, maybe even combining a few BDO Ninja esque techs/effects like Ninja Step and Target Chase, maybe.

His other abilities are also in desperate need of improvement, using Smoke Screen while moving isn't enough, nor is teleporting to limited non enemy objects, which Ash could already do in early builds of warframe, so not exactly new let alone that useful, not to mention how pathetic the Shuriken is without the augment. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Marvelous_A]

Well by the time you put 3 marks on enemies mesa would have already gunned them down. Mesa will do the same job much quicker.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Well by the time you put 3 marks on enemies mesa would have already gunned them down. Mesa will do the same job much quicker.

As a Mesa main I would agree for the majority of the star chart. However Mesa can still be downed much quicker from any number of things from a single grenade to a melee enemy. I still use Ash but I built him around his 2,3 and I solely use him on spys and rescue missions for 2 reasons 

1. Ash is tougher than Loki although he can stay invisible 10-12 sec less,  Ash can also enter invisibility much faster. And as I have built him for range his 2 can stagger vary well. 

2. His 3 (with augment) and ( I use CL just for kicks) can kill anything in the game no matter the level. It has infinite scaling. 

But his 1 is terribly unpredictable, and the effort it takes for his 4... well you're really better off just using his 3 anyway. Hence why they both need proper reworks. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Well by the time you put 3 marks on enemies mesa would have already gunned them down. Mesa will do the same job much quicker.

Not an armored enemy.

And besides... Not everything is a competition. Claiming Mesa could kill something faster is irrelevant.

 

[UrielColtan]

Everyone can kill faster than Ash just using weapons. Little reason to use the energy hungry(Which will expecially be robbed by teamates killing the targets before you.), slow, boring cutscene move over just using weapons and better utility frames.

Edited August 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Wolfdoggie]

The new mechanic of seizuring your reticle to mark isn't fun.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

2 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Little reason to use the energy hungry(Which will expecially be robbed by teamates killing the targets before you.)

Are you claiming that you lose the energy from marking a target if your teammates kill that enemy for you?  From what I understand, you get your energy refunded if that happens.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Everyone can kill faster than Ash just using weapons. Little reason to use the energy hungry(Which will expecially be robbed by teamates killing the targets before you.), slow, boring cutscene move over just using weapons and better utility frames.

What weapons can kill 20 lvl120 bombards eximus faster than bladestorm? While not taking damage?

And that's not even taking into account that you can multiply the damage even more by building the combo meter

Edited August 10, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On 8/7/2017 at 9:15 AM, DeathGold said:

i really don't know what every body is telling "oh ash's blade storm isn't what it used to be" like i just tested it against 20 Lvl 100 bombards with no weapons and every thing i mark evaporate i'm invincible while i'm doing blade storm and it cost nothing with max eff + being invisible it is finisher damage (bypass armor) the only thing i find bad about that ability is the cinematic like moments when you tag 10 enemies but damage / effectiveness wise it's hit like a truck

Use dark dagger for faster animation. And who ever tells that Ash is useless is juat brainless. 

Long live ash-buster

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

22 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What weapons can kill 20 lvl120 bombards eximus faster than bladestorm? While not taking damage?

Ummm any frame with good melee and Naramon...and this...

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DatDarkOne]

57 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ummm any frame with good melee and Naramon...and this...

 

Not saying that you're wrong or anything like that.  It's just that when I tested my 3 forma Lenz against over lvl 100 Grineer it took almost all 6 shots just to kill them.  That was with a couple of builds changing up the elements while testing.  I don't know enough about Chroma to know if that makes a difference. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by DatDarkOne
clarification

[Jobistober]

52 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Not saying that you're wrong or anything like that.  It's just that when I tested my 3 forma Lenz against over lvl 100 Grineer it took almost all 6 shots just to kill them.  That was with a couple of builds changing up the elements while testing.  I don't know enough about Chroma to know if that makes a difference. 

You have to be using the Electric/Cold Elemental Ward/Vex Armor synergies to get the damage multipliers.

[.Dracula.]

I don't know what you're talking about. put an ancient in there and prepare to sit there forever doing no damage. Why would I ever build for bladestorm and sacrifice duration and eff which is what Ash needs to even get to level 100 enemies in the first place? I can totally strip armor with his 1 and 1 shot any enemy I want with his 3. Bladestorm is only a get out of jail for free card. you keep it on and use it when you're in trouble. It's not worthless because it's a panic button, but trying to argue that it's good because "it kills level 100 bombards" is stupid.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ummm any frame with good melee and Naramon...and this...

 

I disagree. Melee can be OP, but you're still not killing 20 heavily armored enemies faster than Ash. 

You clearly don't understand Ash or just feigning ignorance to argue a counter point. 

As far as Ice Chroma and lenz.... If it's true, then good for that frame. Doesn't change the fact that Ash is one of the top damage dealers in game. 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

30 minutes ago, Nidus_ said:

I don't know what you're talking about. put an ancient in there and prepare to sit there forever doing no damage. Why would I ever build for bladestorm and sacrifice duration and eff which is what Ash needs to even get to level 100 enemies in the first place? I can totally strip armor with his 1 and 1 shot any enemy I want with his 3. Bladestorm is only a get out of jail for free card. you keep it on and use it when you're in trouble. It's not worthless because it's a panic button, but trying to argue that it's good because "it kills level 100 bombards" is stupid.

I mean how is a damage ability that allows you to melt lvl 100 corrupted bombards with barely any power strength (bladestorm scales with combo counter) while not taking a single point of damage not good? 

[.Dracula.]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

I mean how is a damage ability that allows you to melt lvl 100 corrupted bombards with barely any power strength (bladestorm scales with combo counter) while not taking a single point of damage not good? 

or I could just hit 3 and one shot anyone I wanted in the same amount of time it takes to kill someone with bladestorm and his 3 scales all the way to level 9999 unlike bladestorm and doesn't require a combo counter to begin with, also not having to rely on whether or not an ancient is there, and also literally doesn't need any power strength at all allowing me to build for duration for smoke screen which ash needs to survive and max range for hitting literally any enemy I can see at any distance. but alright yeah bladestorm is totally worth using 

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, Nidus_ said:

his 3 scales all the way to level 9999

You know that is only true when using a Dagger w/Covert Lethality and the augment for Teleport to Fatal Teleport.