[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[(PSN)Croewe]

They would spawn in the ability zone, preferably ontop of enemies.

[Ldezzer]

3 minutes ago, Auron471 said:

seems like it would be disorienting when you left the box. also how would we get in? i dont want hydroid to become another limbo... the most annoying frame in the game #EndLimbo

Get near puddle, press X. Also, enemies inside undertow are being stunned and unable to attack. Ally just enter and headshot drowning enemies with soma prime while they are unable to do anything

EDIT: and while ally is killing enemies, hydroid can move ally through half of the map unharmed

Edited August 11, 2017 by Ldezzer

[Auron471]

seems pretty good. maybe the kraken eats enemies too :)

[ElectricProdigy]

I like the rework but I must say this, his passive has not changed, and as such, still makes no sense in the context of gameplay. to get any use out of his passive you would have to do slam attacks constantly. to say that this goes against the flow of the game is a bit of an understatement, personally I feel that hydroid should recieve passive healing while in the range of one of his abilities for example when hit with one of his 1 projectiles, he could get 2 health,  when using the wave he gets 5 health, when he's a puddle or in the range of his 4 he gets 1.5 h/s (stackable). I feel this could be a much better passive, allowing him to keep his health up without affecting the flow of battle. I understand this will likely not come into play considering that curative undertow already exists, but I feel like this could be a much more effective passive that doesnt interfere with players simply having fun.

P.S nice job on the rework, I cant wait for you to get around to a birdperson rework (zephyr)

- ElectricProdigy

[DisZeLegend]

Really loving the addition of the "kraken"! Any chance you guys can make it stay as long as the duration of the ability instead of slowly sinking down after 10 seconds?

[Gorreci]

It may be too late now, as this may need a bit of work to do, but I think Hydroid's dodge roll (tap of the shift key by default) should be changed to his Tidal Surge ability, while still being able to be used with Undertow.  Maybe give it a small energy cost, but it's hard to justify an entire ability slot for something that is essentially movement.  This has been done before with Limbo and his entering/exiting the rift.  I'm also hoping something like this is being considered with Zephyr's rework.  I think it's counter-intuitive to have ability slots taken by movement abilities.  Those ability slots should be used for something useful, and that movement should be incorporated into how the base Warframe works.  This would require coming up with a new ability to replace Tidal Surge, but there's a lot of varied feedback on this thread, it probably wouldn't be hard to figure one out, it'd just take a few weeks to implement, I think.  It would probably be worth the wait though.

 

I liked one of the suggestions earlier about have a tentacle stop swinging an enemy around if you aim toward it so that you can get some shots on them.  I would also like to say it'd be nice if allies could still damage enemies that you bring into Undertow somehow.  Either leaving parts of them visible, or firing directly into the puddle.  Hydroid would be king of chokepoints if all his CC abilities actually let his allies do damage to the crowds he is controlling.

 

I do like the Kraken though.  For those who think he's not doing anything... where do you think the tentacles are coming from?  I guess they could animate him a little more, but he looks fine, I think.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Gorreci
Grammar

[Lancars]

They should just have the shadows of the creatures and you can shoot those shadows to do damage.

[Halisi]

This rework was very well thought out and brings some useful upgrades to the table, namely.

• The ability to cast powers 1, 2, & 4 while in Undertow significantly increases the usability of the power. This has also made his entire power set such more cohesive.
• Tailoring the range of Hydroid's 1 & 4 on a whim has added a nice spin to their use. A small concentration of the power, vs a wide encompassing range.

 Also in my opinion, his new range for his powers are fine. But I would like to see the following.

• Improvements to carrying enemies while in undertow, and when using tidal surge.
• Better tracking for Tempest Barrage projectiles. At least some of them should actively target enemies.
• The ability for Tentacle Swarm to hit enemies inside of undertow, although it shouldn't pull them out. Also for Tentacle swarm to pull enemies into Undertow when casted from Undertow. For example: automatically pulling some enemies in upon cast.
• Picking up item drops while in Undertow. So that we can replenish our energy without leaving Undertow, just to recast it, negating a portion of the energy you just received.
• Also, Undertow moves way too slowly. It should move a bit faster. The slow crawl that Undertow currently is, is borderline useless.
• Hydroid is very much a heavy caster frame now, so he should have a matching energy pool. It's too low right now and forces heavy investment into duration, efficiency, and max energy in order to cast his powers as frequently as desirable. To the point of limiting how you can build him. Granting him at least a slightly higher base energy pool would allow for more creative builds. By taking the onus off of the player to mod Hydroid simply to be able to use his powers as frequently as intended.
• Finally, Tidal Impunity does not last long enough. It should grant at least 15 seconds of status immunity at base. The current 6 seconds leaves no breathing room for your team and makes the augment more inconsistent due to the nature of Tidal Surge and the difficulty of coming into contact with your teammates as consistently as would be required with such a short duration.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Halisi
Forgot something

[vinz_clortho]

Feedback:

you kept his first and his fourth ability (which I was hoping for) you also improved them ( I like the charge mechanic idea)

you changed the puddle ability to something I was hoping for and due to it now beeing moveable it easily became one of the most fun abilities to use now. (also left click dragging stuff into, so sweet :D )

Also his second ability now has a use to me, before I didn't like it on him at all but now that you can move the puddle, evenmore fun and suddenly usefull.

All in all I totaly like the synergies you put into his abilities. So to the part where I put in my feedback or rather questions.

Seeing that Hydroid got a rework similiar to Oberon, in that his abilities  are now more synergistic I was wondering that he got no scaling ability like Oberons 1st ability got.

I was ratteling my brain yesterday and I think it would be interessting for either his undertow or his tentacles (the later beeing for me priority due to pilfering swarm builds around in the game).
So I was thinking if you could give him a scaling timer to when the tentacles simply crush the enemies. it would be power strength dependand and look a little like the following:

Secondspast    health    percentage    powerstrength(needed to kill)
1        100%    0 of 100       1000
2        75%    25 of 100        750
3        56,25%    25 of 75    562
4        42,19%    25 of 56,25    421
5        31,64%    25 of 42,19    316
6        23,73%    25 of 31,64    237 (pwrstr of 299 would kill the enemy now)
7        17,8%    25 of 23,73    178
8        13,35%    25 of 17,8    133
9        10,01%    25 of 13,35    101
10        7,51%    25 of 10,01    75 (pwrstr of 100 would kill the enemy now)
11        5,63%    25 of 7,51    56
12        4,22%    25 of 5,63    42
13        3,17%    25 of 4,22    31 (pwrstr of 40 would kill the enemy now)

if you only use 20% instead of 25% a power strength of 
299 would kill at second 7 in this example
100 would kill at second 12 and
40 would kill at second 16 
Also it should consider the percentages from the max HP the enemy has. so that weakened opponents get crushed sooner than fresh and tough units.

It would be nice if you could give my feedback to the person or team responsible for the revamp (including my thanks for the actual state he/she/they put Hydroid in, like the 200 Armor, so needed :) ).

If this comes across as to strong, maybe considering to up his casting speed would also be nice as it feels kinda slow to use his abilities even with natural talent mod equipped.

[Ldezzer]

2 minutes ago, Lancars said:

They should just have the shadows of the creatures and you can shoot those shadows to do damage.

Shadows are boring. Killing enemies inside underwater aquarium while being moved around is a lot funnier ^-^

[ziggiey]

Tbh I think undertow should go and replace it with something more fast pace like a water ball the hydroid can roll around with. He still wont be able to use weapons but instead useing pieces of the water to lob at enemys to suffocate them while in this form he collects bullets and holds them and when hydroid gose out it unleashes them all. Just a little idea I had

[Akimbo]

General:

• The water effects are nice but make my abilities quite difficult to see
• Why are my tentacles no longer pink? :(
• Armour buff is always welcome

 

Tempest Barrage: too slow, too random and pretty much useless. It was only really effective when you used to be able to spam it in one area. Charging it doesn't really seem to be much more effective, just even slower still.

Tidal Surge: I've always liked this ability, and the idea of dragging enemies along was good, however it seems more likely to slingshot the enemies in the direction I was travelling once I've stopped. I kind of thought maybe it would be possible to 'ball up' groups of enemies using it. It retains its purpose for mobility but otherwise doesn't feel much different. Speed on this ability also seems to vary between "too slow" and "omg let me off this ride" if you reduce or add duration.

Undertow: wow, this is fun. Snagging enemies and dragging them in to the undertow is fun, if a bit inefficient, but casting abilities as well? neat! Maybe if it was possible to drag in a "cone" shaped areas worth of enemies at once it'd be better - maybe launch more tentacles at enemies near your target based on power strength?

It's fun, I like it, but even though it's now mobile (and that's a big plus) it's still very slow, very static. This cuts its use from a fair number of mission types. (Any where you have to move...) That said I can't really see what you'd change about it without reworking it entirely into something different, this gets a thumbs up even with its limitations.

Tentacle Swarm: - After playing with it more OH MY GOD it's so SLOW with the charging mechanic. Just make it cast full power all the time without charging!

Kraken!

• Tentacles are no longer affected by energy colour, difficult to see what my ability is doing
• Just give Tentacle Swarm the max number of tentacles and do away with the charging requirement.
• This now seems to have a very small targeted area, instead of auto-targeting enemies within the previously larger range? i.e. the range now is 7.25m with stretch, it used to be 20m without stretch by default. I'd like to see this functionality returned. There used to be a choice between "large AoE, short duration" tentacles which you would recast or "lowered range, long duration" tentacles which you would use for static-location farming. Hydroid seems to have been restricted to gameplay similar to the second type of build now.
• Tentacles seek enemies - yes! this is nearly all this ability needed changing.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Akimbo

[darkki94]

Still the worst frame in the game, also his 4th ( his only useful ability ) is now actually worse with that cast time and energy cost !

[ziggiey]

I've stated this before but I think undertow should turn hydroid into a water ball not a puddle where he can lob parts of himself at enemys to suffocate them. Any damage taken is stored in the ball the  unleashed when he gose out of it. Also he's 3rd ability should change into his dodge kinda like limbo and his 3rd launch a water spurt ( I forget what it's called basicly a water tornado)

[blackheartstar_pc]

I like the rework. The only thing that needed changing on Hydroid was allowing Tidal Surge to be used while in Undertow and they went above and beyond just adding that in a good way. I feel like this is going to go down like Oberons rework where no matter how much better or fun they make him there is going to be a forum mass that just complains that it is not enough or he is some how worse.

[LascarCapable]

5 hours ago, Death_Master_ said:

To be honest you forgot to mention some nerfs in changelog:

Tempest barrage

• Range nerfed to 10m and will not increase from mods

Tidal surge

• Range reduced to ridiculous 6m and speed does not increase properly from mods.

Undertow

• Range reduced to 4m and does not increase properly.
• Your Healing undertow augment now has no value.

Tentacle swarm

• Much slower cast as it now needs to be charged for several seconds to do the same it did before.
• Tentacles are as stupid as they were but now tend to less grab the enemies but beat them.
• Casting while undertow is active will spawn all tentacles inside puddle making them useless as they do not beat enemis inside puddle.

 

If something does not figure in the patch notes, it's probably a bug. Please report them in the right subforum.

[(XBOX)Evil Semajtteb]

Pilfering swarm

Just me but I'd like the tenticals to rather than flail about or pin enemys down. To throw them in the air. 

Chance of being thrown off the side of map (death). Or if the area has a roof. They smack off that for say 10% max health. (So it scales with enemy level) or for hitting the ground. 

 

And range should control range. Maybe the charge should be for more tenticals. Longer charge. More created. Or just each cast spawns a single tentical and you can just summon them one at a time. Each having its own counter of duration?

Tempest barrage.

The watery splash skill? ( how about make it more useful and have it giving a status. Like decreased accuracy for enemys. A bit like blind but doesn't stop them from moving. Just shooting like a storm trooper. 60% decrease in accuracy)

Undertow.

Well that could be kept the same. Absorbing health of the enemys he pulls under. Not really a skill I use a lot. 

Tidal surge.

I have no opinion. If it gets added to Undertow with jump making you surge then a skill to replace it. And keeping with the theme. . . (A spinning dual pirate sabers attack? Or summon an energy anchor to pin ONE enemy to the ground for a melee follow up?)

 

This does make him more a crowd control frame with a regeneration survivability. 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by (XB1)Evil Semajtteb
Idea to add

[Tesseract7777]

Just a few quick thoughts today after testing out the changes.

Stat changes: Needed it after stamina removal, this really helps him survive in higher level since he doesn't have quick, roomwide aoe/cc like a lot of frames. 

Passive: Felt almost helpful before just because Hydroid needed all he could get, now it just feels really out of place. I think we need something entirely new here, tying his passive entirely to melee charge attacks, and what it does, just aren't helpful in reality. 

Tempest Barrage: 

Could still use some tweaks to make it more reliable at actually hitting enemies instead of environment. 

Indicator of charge still needs to be more obvious than it is, I saw a hotfix about making the charge indicator better, but I played after that and didn't notice anything, so it certainly doesn't jump out at you. 

Tidal Surge: 

Seems good on paper, but some of the functionality offered doesn't seem to work the way it says in the patch notes, I am hoping these are just bugs that need to be ironed out. 

Undertow: 

Nice changes, lots of cool synergies and all of that, but it seems to have lost some range, was this intended? I assume so? 

Tentacle Swarm: 

Same issues as Tempest Barrage. Need to still be more reliable at actually appearing near enemies and targeting them, and seeking out new enemies who are close by, etc. 

Still needs a better charge indicator. 

Kraken is a wasted opportunity 

Final thoughts: 

Lots of new synergies, cool idea, and great way to revisit hydroid and make him more relevant without actually changing any of his abilities or his theme or feel too much. However, a couple main issues left that could be fixed: 

1) CC still needs to be more reliable at targeting in general, this is a big issue. 

2) smoothness between tidal surge and undertow needs to be worked out, I feel like there are a lot of bugs here. Overall the rework needs to be smoothed out. 

3) He is now VERY energy heavy. The prime could address this easily enough. The prime really needs a decent energy buff. 

4) Make the Kraken do something. Please. Don't just waste it by having it sit there. I don't care exactly what it does, but just being there kind of wastes all that time animating that. 

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

Sorry, but this is not even a rework. 

It's a few tweaks and QoL changes that are welcomed but not nearly enough to call this a rework. 

Hydroid now does the same stuff as before, dealing with the same level enemies as before and with a sadly useless CC as before. 

His 3 and 4 don't do any serious damage and don't allow allies to do it either. 

Mobility in the puddle is terrible and spamming 2 to move is not really a wise choice; the base range was nerfed so badly that charging his 4 simply makes it same as before. 

The damage in the puddle is so bad that after your drawned enemies in you either stay like that for a minute or so or you let them go so that someone else can properly kill them. 

Last, but not least, the Kraken. It's cool af, but.....like......since we can aim at enemies to draw them in the puddle I guess the Kraken will appear and pull them in, right? Nope. 

Oh, ok, then maybe it'll actually show in the puddle when you draw enemies in, right? Nope. 

Oh, ok, then I guess the Kraken will appear during Tentacles in various places where enemies are hit, right? Nope. 

Oh......... Ok, then it'll stay at least up for the while duration of the ability, right? Uh, nope. 

Ok, I'm done. 

 

This is not a rework, I know PA is coming soon and it risked to be the less sold ever, but besides that Hydroid REALLY needed a proper rework. 

I quote what a guy wrote on Reddit, which I found straight but appropriate:

Quote

Can we go back to Excalibur times, when somebody actually thought about a frame's problem and solution? If Excal's rework was done today, he would have been given double damage and range on Blind and Javelin while Super Jumping and been called a masterpiece.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Sir_Alex_Traffo

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Sir_Alex_Traffo said:

Sorry, but this is not even a rework. 

 

Officially, they didn't call it one. They just call it a "revisit". I believe Limbo was called rework, and Oberon was also called a "revisit", but I could be remembering incorrectly. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Hello, Tenno!

So with Hydroid's revisited released to be public play-tested I've come up with the idea to make a pre-play feedback to help DE improve upon his revised powers and passives before his prime his released. As where he sits now is not as great as we all have hoped.

So here is my own opinion on his revisited powers and passives and what I suggest that needs to be changed

 

Note: I've tried to go with thame of water itself, the following themes are:

Acid Rain: Water will corrode metal when put into water unless you have "stainless steel" type of metals. 

Holy Water: Water, H20 is almost the most thing humans need, to live, water doesn't exactly heal wounds, but is used in medicine.  

Water can act as a solid wall, hence the tenacles slamming and causing damage (No pun intended) 

Lastly: Dangerous fish live in the seas, hence his last power.

The Passive: Tidal Wave

This passive simply turns Tidal Surge into his passive, when ever he rolls. This shares similarity to Limbo, where he can enter the rift, via a roll or dash. The range is still the same.  

 

Acid Rain: (New Name): Tempest Barrage

Acid Rain can now cause a corrosive proc, upon enemies being hit. (Implanting his augment into his 1st)

Acid Rain can now be cast one-handed.

Acid Rain's range is boosted.

 

Note: A new augment will need to be made

 

Aqua Cure: New Power

Aqua Cure forms a liquid aura that submerges enemies that wander onto the pool   

Aqua Cure allows Hydroid and his allies to sink within the pool healing them, once fully healed allies and Hydroid will become acceptable to damage. (To Prevent AFKers) (Or Kicked out of the puddle). Will now proc cold damage.

Aqua Care, will now allow Hydroid to choice whenever he enters the pool or not. 

Shares same bonuses as old Undertow. 

 

Tentacle Swarm: 

Now becomes his 3rd, it keeps the same traits and passives, as the current power, However, the "Fish" has been removed, in favour to his 4th.

While inside Aqua Care, the range is limited and can only seek targets that get close to the puddle.

Outside of Aqua Care, the range is much longer and the radius is even higher.

Combined with his 1st, will add Corrosive damage to his power.

 

Oceanic Kraken: New Power

Hydroid will summon his pet Kraken to swim around and attack near by hostiles, by consuming and slamming into them.

Single Tentacles will spawn around him when he swims into his targets, (His old passive injected)

His Karaken will follow Hydroid around and is a toggle, drains energy over time. 

Karkden does high slash and puncher damage, and procs either Cold or Corrosive, depending on combining of powers 

 

 

So, this is all I can think of as a pre-play, let me know what you think, if it's bad, let me know (and please tell me why) if its good, be sure to let me know, as this is a pre-play all feedback is welcomed, just keep it civilized. 

 

 

Circle of Psi

 

Final Note: I;ll add more ideas, if people qoute this idea, so feel free to add them, as this topic may be merged. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Circle_of_Psi

[Shafilp]

7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Officially, they didn't call it one. They just call it a "revisit". I believe Limbo was called rework, and Oberon was also called a "revisit", but I could be remembering incorrectly. 

Both of them called "revisit" tho, you can check in U20 patch note for Limbo and https://www.warframe.com/news/oberon-revisited-is-here for Oberon

 

[HeliosHunter]

Okay DE i'm gonna be the bad guy here and i'm gonna let you know that you need to stop focusing on ability synergy and focus more on ability power and/or usability.Hydroid with this update has been made more of the same,you basically moved some stuff around and buffed his stats a bit.Hydroid needs a REWORK not a REVISIT.

[Inquizitor]

My feedback in TL:DR-> I expected more.

Honestly, we all waited so long for...this?

Sure, his abilities are less dull, but still overally useless.

ARMOR: LOW

HEALTH: AVERAGE

SHIELD: ABOVE AVERAGE

ENERGY CAP: MINIMAL

 

Passive ability is absolute ****, (imo even worse than Trinity´s passive)

1st ability deals very little base dmg (and its blast), does not hit enemies that often, but will sometimes knock them down for some little crowd control. NOT SORTIE WORTHY; Its augment might seem good, as it procs corrosive effects, but is still only good on grineer (or corrupted?), little SORTIE POTENTIAL

2nd ability was improved in terms of speed and range, ragdolls enemies away and is fun to use. However deals absolutely no damage at all. While having little CC potential, its NOT SORTIE WORTHY; Its augment is absolutely useless, if so, this sh** should be its passive, but not waste a slot for such garbage. Status immunity? Cleansing allies off their debuffs? WHO EVEN DOES THIS? Hydroid is trying to become oberon, but fails at it horribly. Disappointing.

3rd ability is probably the only good thing , as it deals minimal damage and it scales over time, however...it generally takes very long time to kill even a single enemy (while it does not cost much energy or effort, it takes very long time and lots of energy if multiple enemies are pulled in). The AoE of this thing is also quite low. Overally: extremely boring ability-sure, it can kill even a high lvl enemy, but until that happens, Plains of Eidolon will be released.  Little SORTIE POTENTIAL for Defense-type missions, probably best against melee units like infested. ; Its augment that adds ability to heal enemies is somewhat okay. But would i waste my slot for this? NEVER! ...okay, its cool to have ability to heal allies, but they wont even know that i do have that augment on, they wont even bother to step in, unless i tell them manually to do so.

4rd ability is the most disappointing one. Honestly, it always was. While it costs ONLY 50 energy (which is good), its nothing good. Tentacles spawns under enemies in a rather smaller range, with limited tentacles, that will keep ragdolling enemies around, preventing allies to hit them (unless you have a perfect aim reflexes, AoE weapon or a melee weapon, or AoE dmg ability, then you are screwed). Those ragdolled enemies are crowd controlled and take MINIMAL damage-and after they manage to somehow die, the tentace will still act stupid like it always did. Mediocore limited crowd control with minimal damage output but SUPER NEW ABSOLUTELY STUNNING VISUAL THAT SUMMONS THE SPOOKY SCARY MONSTER FROM THE DEEP!!! ....is totally useless (but looks neat!!!!) REMEMBER TENNO: APPEARENCE > STATS

Okay, so this ability has MINIMAL SORTIE POTENTIAL ; its augment allows killed enemies drop more stuff. Cool feature, i like it, i always did, you can team up with Nekros & others like Chroma or idk who...maybe Atlas with Ore Gaze, to get more stuff from enemies. But thats it. You farm materials with this augment, but as long this ability is absolutely dmg-related useless, it wont be anywhay good on enemies beyond level 40 (max 50, depending on faction & mods such as Corrosive projection etc.)

 

RECAP: This is the long awaited Hydroid update we have been waiting for???? THIS??? It ended up failing exactly like with Mag and Limbo, one more useless than another (well, maybe not useless, but rather annoying), while hydroid can also be annoying (you can use the low-power str. 3rd ability on a high-HP resistant enemy to pull them in in a defense type missions and prevent allies from going to next wave, holding them in the mission for longer than intended...etc).

What can DE do to make it better?

If anyone is reading this, then im telling you, his abilities could use some enemy-scaling balance, like some "percentage" related abilities, idk, lets say Trinity gives 75% damage reduction, Harrow gives 50% crit chance, Hydroid ragdolls enemies! Yay!....

Come on DE, you can do better than this.

 

 

 

[13QZXXTTX]

19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: