[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[hukurokuju5]

24 minutes ago, Synpai said:

Tidal Surge:

Wish it clustered the enemies it gathered/ragdolled to a focal point.

THIS

PLUS having it grow in width over time

[kapn655321]

8/11 6:15pm Eastern

Okay guys, cool it with the hotfixes.

I'm getting REAL scared you're about to break hydroid.
He's good. I like it. It's good. Chill. Please?

...Don't Limbo my Hydroid. X_X

[Cephalon_Blue]

I'm no Hydroid main. I have seen him in action, however, and he still looks underwhelming. He is a frame that controls water, but it doesn't look like there is any power to it. What I'm thinking is that what he needs most is the visuals and some slight ability changes to turn him from a simple water frame to a powerful Ocean frame.

We all know from media that the ocean can be very dangerous. A storm can appear quickly, turning a fairly gentle water into massive waves crashing down, damaging hulls and throwing people overboard. What I think Hydroid needs is this. He is a CC frame, and he needs to do CC in a way that is actually really helpful. He needs to hold the power of a Tempest or Maelstrom, or whatever you may call it, but to show power that doesn't pale in comparison to other frames. He needs to be FUN. 

So, this is my idea:

Passive) Abilities become more efficient based on how many enemies Hydroid affects at a time, capped at 30%. 

1) Tidal Surge: Change the visual to show a larger, cresting wave rather than the smooth form it currently takes. Then, you give it the ability to disarm enemies for a duration, with the chance for happening based on PS. Otherwise, no changes.

2) Undertow: instead of being a mostly still puddle, you make it more ocean-like in appearance, with sea foam and waves. You can keep the ability to pull in enemies, but that isn't all. You get to have fish that will attack enemies that you pull in, with not much damage, because that's not Hydroid's purpose, but to be for the effects. Enemies inside will also have to cough up water after they are released, based on a fraction of the duration they are  inside.

3) Tempest Barrage becomes simply Tempest, and instead of water balls falling from the sky, it becomes a real storm. Gale force winds will blow water spray and sand at them, and that will have a % chance per second to blind, strip armor, and/or knock them down. The chance is increased with PS. When used with Undertow, it will increase the size of waves, and gain some more strength. Needs a new augment. 

4) This change is simple: instead of tentacle summoning, you get the full Kraken. A massive squid appears, grabbing enemies with crushing force and either tossing them, or attempting to eat them, dealing damage like normal. It will force loot to drop from enemies it picks up, and that means the augment needs to be changed. 

Now, for the synergies: 

Like the current rework, Undertow is the ability all the others synergize well with. 

1) When cast in Undertow, it creates a larger wave that has a 100% chance to disarm, and will leave enemies stunned and down for a duration. It also has a satisfying thunderous sound as it hits a wall or reaches its full range. Still maintains the traveling capabilities the rework gave. 

3) Tempest will increase the size of the waves in undertow (more for visuals) and it will look very storm-like. It will gain double the percent chance for its possible effects to occur, and it will do double the damage.

4) The Kraken will gain a terror effect and will also bring babies.  

To simplify, Hydroid has the power of an Ocean. He doesn't kill enemies, he simply toys with them and leaves them gasping for air, coughing up water, and weakened. Completely vulnerable for killing. With all his abilities used in tandem, he gains so much control over them, battering them, stripped of armor and blinded. This would cost a lot as he doesn't have much energy reserve, hence the passive. Using abilities individually is also entirely possible, and you can build for using them on their own if you want. There is no forced synergy, but the abilities result in greater effects if you do. 

How do you guys like this?

Edited August 11, 2017 by BlueLTO
Grammar fixes.

[FoxFX]

12 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

8/11 6:15pm Eastern

Okay guys, cool it with the hotfixes.

I'm getting REAL scared you're about to break hydroid.
He's good. I like it. It's good. Chill. Please?

...Don't Limbo my Hydroid. X_X

The Hotfix claims they have improved Tempest Barrage's targeting

[NotxShyi]

Glad for the Hydroid rework and the new synergy between abilities. However I feel that the first ability feels just a bit out of place with the rest of the kit, since the ability's barrage is rather inconsistent/random. An idea that I have is what if the ability was to on first activation pull enemies in, and second activation push enemies away. That way, it works with his undertow as well as give him general cc for higher content scaling. Furthermore, this change would make all his other abilities (with the exception to his tidal surge) work more efficiently and in sync with each other (especially if tentacles threw enemies into Hydroid's undertow) ; i.e. tidal surge to get to the middle of enemies-> new ability in place of tempest barrage (x1)-> tentacle swarm -> undertow for a full combo (and new ability x2 if the enemies are not killed). The best part in my opinion, is that the idea fits very well with his watery-ocean theme and even place emphasis on his characteristic ability, tentacle swarm.

Edited August 11, 2017 by xNotxShyx

[kapn655321]

Speaking of the hotfix mentioning changes after he's been tested for a week.

Everything so far here on 21.4.2 and before are great.
I have known DE to do wonderful things.
..but I don't ever trust anyone to Always do the right thing.

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, xNotxShyx said:

Glad for the Hydroid rework and the new synergy between abilities. However I feel that the first ability feels just a bit out of place with the rest of the kit, since the ability's barrage is rather inconsistent/random. An idea that I have is what if the ability was to on first activation pull enemies in, and second activation push enemies away. That way, it works with his undertow as well as give him general cc for higher content scaling. Furthermore, this change would make all his other abilities (with the exception to his tidal surge) work more efficiently and in sync with each other (especially if tentacles threw enemies into Hydroid's undertow) ; i.e. tidal surge to get to the middle of enemies-> new ability in place of tempest barrage (x1)-> tentacle swarm -> undertow for a full combo (and new ability x2 if the enemies are not killed). The best part in my opinion, is that the idea fits very well with his watery-ocean theme and even place emphasis on his characteristic ability, tentacle swarm.

They might have just fixed that barrage accuracy problem. Run a quick playtest.

[13QZXXTTX]

On 8/10/2017 at 11:26 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Feedback appreciated here: 

 

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

20 hours ago, Azamagon said:

While Tentacle Swarm is a bit slower to cast, Tempest Barrage has a delay before it starts taking effect. This, in essence, makes them about the same in the "winding up" department.

Tentacle Swarm, however, has a huge advantage in that, once it is cast, it's instantly at the ready with multiple tentacles all over the place. Tempest Barrage is much worse in that regard, since it only affects small areas here and there, in small instances. It's not nearly as "lingering" as Tentacle Swarm is.

Both are now also castable while moving (onehanded), although this could be prevented in the past anyway by aim-glide casting Tentacle Swarm.

In essence; Tentacles Swarm is VASTLY superior.
Tempest Barrage's augment is the ONLY thing that makes it do something worthwhile. Something which only works against 2 factions and which doesn't synergize with Tentacle Swarm either (since it mostly deals Finisher damage).

They need to be more different, imo.

It's cute that you're wrong. Tempest Barrage sets up ground finishers, doesn't turn you into a sitting duck to cast, and doesn't interrupt your reloading or weapon handling on account of being off-hand. Further, it's far more reliable at hitting enemies that you want to hit than your 4. It's also a lot less expensive, and doesn't make enemies wildly harder for your non-AoE targeting allies to harm them.

...or are you still using negative range? If you are, stop. It reduces the hit area of the individual projectiles dramatically, making it far less likely to hit. If you're in a situation where you need CC *right now* use your 2. That's what it's there for. Or 3.

 

Tentacle swarm vastly superior... not even in the slightest.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Just curious, did the update make players who hated hydroid now love him? Or just the players who already played him now think he is better?

I have the impression that the rework made a better Hydroid which in my case feels like putting make up in a really ugly girl - well she looks better but still not really a top model...

 

In my opinion this is the worst rework to date. Hydroid mains are happy because he is better but I cant see the player base start actually using him because now he is a reworked frame. Its just the same Hydroid with some Qol. Unreliable CC on 1st and 4th. 4th makes aiming at enemies rly bad etc...

Edited August 11, 2017 by (PS4)lhbuch

[Cephalon_Blue]

6 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

 

 

Oh, so would I post this there? Ok. 

[ijhh]

I was extremely happy with many things on this rework.

Visually Hydroid looks and feels outstanding. Hydroid was always fun, but now he feels smoother with more mobility on top of that. Literally no complaints in that area. Great job, visually DE dressed to impress!

The improvements on Hydroid's defensive abilities, in my opinion, are godly. Being able to use Undertow in air is actually a pretty big deal. Just time Undertow right and Hydroid players should be fine. On top of that Hydroid can now roll out of Undertow, which feels great. Hydroid now has a safe exit as well as his new synergy with Tidal Surge while in Undertow. The bonus shields and armor make Hydroid lose his fragile feeling at early stages of the game. I personally find this all to be amazing, and alone makes Hydroid a different tier of a warframe.

On this revisit of Hydroid I had a few expectations fall short. Maybe that's harsh of me. Maybe these abilities are designs to have certain flaws to dictate the player's gameplay, but there are a few mechanics that, to me, make or break Hydriods abilities.

My biggest issue with Hydroid's Tempest Barrage pre-revisit would be hitting the ceiling with the projectiles. This would literally render the ability useless in small areas like corpus hallways. The revisit fix a lot of that, but not all of it. I'll still have the same problem of not hitting targets because I'm playing a mission that is indoor. The Tempest Barrage rework was a step in the right direction, but Tempest Barrage is still not as good as a point and click freeze (Frost cough*).

Undertow has some really fun abilities now. Hydroid can move around, use other abilities while in Undertow, and pull in enemies. I still feel this ability has no functionality other than to be safe. You can't revive teammates, hack consoles, or anything that gives a reliable interaction while in Undertow. Undertow can pull enemies into it better than ever, but why should Hydroid want to do that? The damage is bad, the utility is bad, and the crowd control is also bad because it hides the enemies. The ability still feels uninteractive with the game, which makes its defense actually good. I'd personally love a reason to see an enemy and think "You, right now need to be Undertowed," but there is no reason. Even if it washed away weapons or armor and did no damage, I'd find A LOT more use of getting enemies into Undertow.

Tentacle Swarm has improved a lot, but I'd say I'm still iffy to give a real opinion on it other than its better than before.

My conclusion over Hydroid right now as a warframe.

Hydroid is fun, but players want something that is functional. A lot of players try Hydroid and like him, and there is a ton of information that agrees with that. Players don't play Hydroid because as a warframe Hydroid doesn't offer utility, offense, defense, and/or crowd control that another warframe can offer better in any situation. Literally play rate comes down to how functional Hydroid is. Although Hydroid's defense capabilities are pretty high and higher than before, other warframes are still better at picking up a teammate, defending an objective, hacking consoles, even killing trash mobs, or doing anything that is actually functional while having that defending capability as an option.

Personally I'd love Hydroid to be good.

Water is such a cool element and Hydroid captures it pretty well, but in reality why should I play Hydroid. Him being fun to look at doesn't really provide myself or my teammates with anything Nyx can't do, except drop more loot. Even then you need tentacle to kill the enemy, which kind of make Hydroid just as interactive as in Undertow. I love Hydroid's movements and abilities, but the abilities do fall short. I don't think Hydroid's abilities need to change, but I do think Hydroid's abilities need to do more. That Especially goes for Undertow. Hydroid was a frame I've wanted to be good from when I began playing warframe and waited years now hoping he'd hit that mark. I'd buy Hydroid primes pack straight up if Hydroid it that spot. Not just for the gear, but to show my support to DE for making a fan happy.

[Buddhakingpen]

46 minutes ago, (Xbox One)N7ShadowedSoul said:

Ok so 1st off, let me say that I am actually a Hydroid MAIN...I'm not a tenno that occasionally plays Hydroid or uses him sometimes for Pilfering Swarm. I MAIN him, I LOVE him & I will try to take him on every mission if possible if I think he will work. Secondly I've been playing Hydroid since endurance bars were in the game. Yes I remember at that point he had the highest endurance stat of all Warframes. So with my being a veteran at playing Hydroid. I'm going to give some insight to some CONSTRUCTIVE  thoughts.

STATS: 

Shields: 345 to 375 - ehh not bad, but with the way damage & status procs work, this boost should have gone to HEALTH instead

Armor: 65 to 200 -   VERY good choice make him a bit more survivable. But is it too much to ask for 225? Like Oberon, Excal, Wukong etc.. That would be great if not that's fine.

PASSIVE: Every Melee slam attack has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that lasts for 15 seconds.

Considering the pre mentioned stamina bar, from what I could assume Hydroid was supposed to be a melee caster frame. Hit hard & fast getting in to do damage. Cast Tempest Barrage from a distance, rush in with Tidal Surge melee the crap outta enemies. This is how I played & still play him not an issue. But triggering this on slam attacks is a bit awkward for most people. Most melee stances don't have a good amount of slam attacks in their combos. NOW I am big user of the Sancti Magistar with Hydroid. So I know that Crushing Ruin is very good with slam attacks to be able to proc this quite often. But as I said other melee weapon stances don't have that same efficiency. So the way this passive procs is forcing to play in a very specific way. So finding a more available way to proc this would be of greater benefit to players. Here's a suggestion, how about making it this?

Every melee attack that procs a Critical Hit or Status Effect has a 50% chance to lure a Tentacle that last for 5 seconds. Max of 5 at a time.

So that way all melee weapons can now cause this to happen. Also with a shorter duration of 5 seconds instead of 15, this will be a more quick burst disrupt that is not to overpowered or lasts too long. Furthermore with this having a limit of 5 out at once, it will not again be too powerful or cause any performance issues. Now with all 5 out, if there is another proc that triggers this again, the oldest spawned tentacle will be replaced with a new one. Also to make this more effective allow it to scale with POWER STRENGTH ONLY. That way it rewards melee players, for being high risk going in close with Hydroid.

Tempest Barrage:

The RNG of this ability has ALWAYS been my biggest gripe & frustration with Hydroid. Now I remember when you guys had Power Range effect the cluster size of this ability. So using Narrow Minded made this a wonderful CC ability because you could concentrate CC & damage really well. But I see how & know how that had complications with Tentacle Swarm so you guys changed it, that's fine understandable. What it got changed to however is highly frustrating. Now it has a set range of 10 meters, where the power range affects the explosion radius. Fine, but the complete randomness of where these bombs are dropping make it HIGHLY ineffective. So to fix this, have the bombs drop in a designated pattern to where the base bomb radius will hit the entire INSIDE area of the circle more accurately. In example you have a 10 meter circle, make the bombs drop at the 4 cardinal points in a circle of say like 7 meters INSIDE that 10 meter circle. Let the radius of each bombs explosion coupled with Power Range take care of the rest with filling in that 10 meter range & then with more range exceeding it. This way it is a CONSISTENT hitting ability in the same pattern EVERYTIME. Also it still adheres to your 4 bombs drop every second form. On top of this, to allow it a slightly higher effieciency to be able to damage more effectively, have POWER STRENGTH scale how many bombs are dropped per second. At 100% power strength, the base 4 drops are fine. At 150% power strength, add 2 more bombs per second for a total of 6. At 200% power strength, add 4 bombs essentially doubling the original amount. Also have them drop in the same cardinal points mentioned above. These changes would significantly increase the effectiveness & efficiency of Tempest Barrage with out having to do any core changes as to how the ability works.

TIDAL SURGE:

The changes I would suggest are very minor quality of life changes for this. First the speed of how fast he travels is a bit too fast to do much with it. So with that said take off the Power Duration scaling & make it a flat base speed at all ranks. Secondly, allow your aiming reticle to determine where you go & how FAR you go with this. So with that said allow POWER RANGE to not only affect striking distance but the total distance that can be allowed to travel. So for example say you have a range of I don't know 50 meters, allow your aiming reticle to give you the ability to choose WHERE in that allowed 50 meters where to wave dash to. What if you just need to cross through a laser door or like electrocuted water? It would be more efficient to put your aiming reticle just right past those hazards, hit the ability & that's where you go instead of quickly charging a set full 50 meters completely going way past it. Also a combo window counter would be nice a bit like Atlas's Landslide. What I mean is when you cast Tidal Surge & you cast it again within a certain window, the consecutive casts give a slight reduction to the casting cost. He is already water so why charge a lot more energy for him to continue as water? The changes you guys made with being able to go into Undertow from Tidal Surge is perfectly fine.

UNDERTOW:

The dreaded puddle move lol. Overall I am fine with the changes you guys have made to this ability. Good job on this. A lot of people complain, moan & groan about these changes on how it needs to do more damage, move faster etc....It is fine, they want more damage but you are pretty much completely IMMUNE to damage. You cant have too much with this because then it could be completely overpowered. Maybe just a slight buff to scaling damage would be fine. Now I do agree it should move just a wee bit faster, not super fast but just slightly faster. The ability to grab people is nice as well. The ONE thing I would like to see changed is for you guys to incorporate the Augment mod Curative Undertow into the base ability. Water has always been know as the healing element, allow Hydroid by default to be able to help his team mates as well. With this you could really secure Hydroid as a good support frame for teams. When someone is in danger or down, Hydroid goes over drops into Undertow starts healing that person while they are doing their thing. Or he can cover a team mate who is reviving someone keeping them healed. On both of these situations now Hydroid can also grab priority targets into Undertow to cover his team mates like heavy gunners or bombards that can potentially cause trouble. With this you could change the augment mod to allow Undertow to status proc. Every certain amount of seconds it can proc like an impact proc or something in case a player wanted a different style of damage options. These changes are minor but would go a LONG way to helping Hydroid fit into a team composition. As a last note, while Hydroid is in Undertow, allow him a slightly higher efficiency or cost reduction to casting abilities while in the water. In this move he is in his natural elemental plane, so he should not have to spend more energy to use what is around him or what's inside of him. Doesn't have to be a big reduction, maybe just like another 15% or so.

TENTACLE SWARM:

I think the changes you made to this a good as well. A good step in the right direction. The changes I am suggesting are also minor changes that will just improve the use of this ability. Continue to polish the RNG of this ability. Have the tentacles actively seek out targets better & when done with their current target actually move & seek out a new target. Animation issue, you added a kraken head but it really doesn't do anything? Ever thought of having one tentacle at a time randomly feed the kraken its target? While the others are flinging around, have one tentacle do a little bit extra damage by feeding the enemy to the Kraken? That would be amazing! As far as scaling towards higher levels go, the Kraken falls off very quickly. I have a unique idea...Treat Tentacle Swarm as you do an Exalted ability. Exalted Blade, Primal Fury & Hysteria are all melee weapons right? So Hydroid summons a Kraken, the head appears & the tentacles attack enemies right? Well its the kraken attacking enemies & the tentacles are it's ARMS/LEGS. So in essence the Kraken is punching, slapping, kicking & slamming enemies, that is melee combat for the Kraken! So with this said, allow the damage to scale off of POWER STRENGTH & the melee mods Hydroid has equipped on his melee weapon! The kraken right now in the game causes chaos yes, but in mythology the Kraken was also capable of insane destruction. Let us emulate that in the game too! There is a reason for the name the "Terror in the Deep". By allowing this scaling, it will also give Hydroid more versatility in being able to deal with multiple threats in multiple factions & be able to survive & contribute at higher levels. This change of damage type will also allow him to better secure bonuses for his Augment mod Pilfering Swarm by doing better damage.

DE, these are my constructive thoughts on how to improve Hydroid without you guys having to change the core of what Hydroid is. I really hope as one of the few true Hydroid mains out there, you guys actually read this & see how I am offering positive feedback with no bashing, insulting or being greedy in any way. I would just like some help from you on how to build upon my favorite Warframe in the game. Please take these ideas into consideration, Hydroid really deserves the attention.

A Hydroid main,

N7ShadowedSoul

 

Iono. Constantly reiterating that you were a hydroid main made me not take this as seriously as a probably should have. Came off a bit self important.  

Especially since i'm also a hydroid main, and i disagree with a good lot of whats being said here. Then you called your tentacle swarm exalted form idea "unique" when 8/10 rework ideas on literally every frame people want reworked have an exalted form somewhere in them. Sorry, i'm just sensing a lot of self importance here, so i got annoyed. My apologies. I'll try to not be a jerk in the rest of the post. 

Tempest barrage is easily hydroids best move in its current state. I'm not seeing this inconsistency that people keep on talking about. Mod for almost any kind of positive range and it will consistently keep enemies permanently knocked down in the entire radius. I'm also of the camp that cc frames should not be damage frames. Forcing it to scale off of power strength when it doesnt need to is counterproductive imo. Esp since power strength doesnt scale anything else in any significant way

The tidal surge change just has no chance in happening, so no need to address that. Non targeted dash skills scale off of duration. Its been like that for years. Honestly, i think half of the fun in building him is finding that sweet spot with duration to make surge easy to control, but tempest barrage have good duration. Right now i'm sitting around 160% duration and it controls well. 

On undertow.... hell no the augment shouldnt be built in. I actually hate the curative undertow mod, i'd be mad if they built it in. I dont want my energy being sapped just because i choose to use undertow near a teammate.  I also dont think you should be rewarded with cheaper casts just for using a move that already makes you invincible. I mean, 15% wouldnt break anything, but its unnecessary. The new augment idea is pretty good though. 

I naturally hate every exalted weapon idea, because even though damage wise they're powerful, they always just result in players running around mindlessly spamming the attack button. I prefer unique mechanics. 

The hydroid rework that we got is really good. You're trying to basically rework their rework. New mechanics, an entirely new move. Whats done is done man. For now, you want to keep your suggestions based around what DE has already done, not give them enough work to warrant a whole new rework. 

Things like how smooth hydroid transitions from his 2 to his 3, the range or duration on his moves, his energy pool. Suggestions like that are things they'll listen to, not telling them that they essentially did the whole thing wrong

Another Hydroid main

Buddhakingpen

[Cephalon_Blue]

I have my own suggestion for improving Hydroid, because he is still underwhelming. He is a frame that controls water, but it doesn't look like there is any power to it. What I'm thinking is that what he needs most is the visuals and some slight ability changes to turn him from a simple water frame to a powerful Ocean frame.

We all know from media that the ocean can be very dangerous. A storm can appear quickly, turning a fairly gentle water into massive waves crashing down, damaging hulls and throwing people overboard. What I think Hydroid needs is this. He is a CC frame, and he needs to do CC in a way that is actually really helpful. He needs to hold the power of a Tempest or Maelstrom, or whatever you may call it, but to show power that doesn't pale in comparison to other frames. He needs to be FUN. 

So, this is my idea:

Passive) Abilities become more efficient based on how many enemies Hydroid affects at a time, capped at 30%. 

1) Tidal Surge: Change the visual to show a larger, cresting wave rather than the smooth form it currently takes. Then, you give it the ability to disarm enemies for a duration, with the chance for happening based on PS. Otherwise, no changes.

2) Undertow: instead of being a mostly still puddle, you make it more ocean-like in appearance, with sea foam and waves. You can keep the ability to pull in enemies, but that isn't all. You get to have fish that will attack enemies that you pull in, with not much damage, because that's not Hydroid's purpose, but to be for the effects. Enemies inside will also have to cough up water after they are released, based on a fraction of the duration they are  inside.

3) Tempest Barrage becomes simply Tempest, and instead of water balls falling from the sky, it becomes a real storm. Gale force winds will blow water spray and sand at them, and that will have a % chance per second to blind, strip armor, and/or knock them down. The chance is increased with PS. When used with Undertow, it will increase the size of waves, and gain some more strength. Needs a new augment. 

4) This change is simple: instead of tentacle summoning, you get the full Kraken. A massive squid appears, grabbing enemies with crushing force and either tossing them, or attempting to eat them, dealing damage like normal. It will force loot to drop from enemies it picks up, and that means the augment needs to be changed. 

Now, for the synergies: 

Like the current rework, Undertow is the ability all the others synergize well with. 

1) When cast in Undertow, it creates a larger wave that has a 100% chance to disarm, and will leave enemies stunned and down for a duration. It also has a satisfying thunderous sound as it hits a wall or reaches its full range. Still maintains the traveling capabilities the rework gave. 

3) Tempest will increase the size of the waves in undertow (more for visuals) and it will look very storm-like. It will gain double the percent chance for its possible effects to occur, and it will do double the damage.

4) The Kraken will gain a terror effect and will also bring babies.  

To simplify, Hydroid has the power of an Ocean. He doesn't kill enemies, he simply toys with them and leaves them gasping for air, coughing up water, and weakened. Completely vulnerable for killing. With all his abilities used in tandem, he gains so much control over them, battering them, stripped of armor and blinded. This would cost a lot as he doesn't have much energy reserve, hence the passive. Using abilities individually is also entirely possible, and you can build for using them on their own if you want. There is no forced synergy, but the abilities result in greater effects if you do. 

I hope this firs his role and theme well.

 

[NotxShyi]

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

They might have just fixed that barrage accuracy problem. Run a quick playtest.

Well my initial issue with the ability was that it was sporadic, where maybe damage in a wave of water (?) would be better. Also, I personally see him as more of a crowd control frame, since his tentacles can pick things up, his undertow mainly stalls, and his tidal wave can be seen as a form of crowd control/movement. So if you add the armor reduction mod (corroding barrage} with a push/pull ability, it would make him a different approach to the "rhino effect" (Where Rhino's stomp is great crowd control, and rhino is able to buff up his teammates' damage. Hydroid on the other hand, can still provide what Rhino would provide in terms of crowd control in a different way, as well as reducing armor on enemies, which indirectly buffs his team's damage). This would diversify the viability of tanks in higher content.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Brasten said:

Not so useful advice when in active team environments. Especially when there are other Warframes that are better at quickly dispatching the masses of enemies. You can start casting (with the new extream charge-up delay) and find you're now down to 4 or 5 hardened targets. Which then get whipped around in ways that make them nearly impossible for the rest of the team to focus on.

Just an FYI, Tentacle Swarm doesn't look like it's designed with 3 other players trying to shoot whatever's been ensnared in mind: It's designed to allow Hydroid to take down or at least injure 10 enemies in an area with a single cast. Those are supposed to be Hydroid's kills, and honestly, if a player is insistent on trying to hit up to 10 flailing bodies and grabbing those kills, well I hope they have fun wasting ammo because that's pretty much what they're doing. The rest of the team should be focusing their efforts on any and all enemies the tentacles didn't grab and mopping up enemies that the tentacles did grab but weren't able to kill before the ability's duration expired.

See, when I'm in a group and I see a Hydroid working his water tentacle magic on a mob in a certain area, I think "Ok, Hydroids' got that zone - let me focus on enemies that Hydroid isn't engaged with or missed!" and act accordingly. Because to me, that's the smart and less wasteful thing to do.

 

1 hour ago, Brasten said:

Frankly, the Over Targeting is a flaw in the ability that's been around since the beginning, and it is a flaw that should be fixed in a rework... which it wasn't. In the case of the Maggot, I was trying to setup the batch of Tentacles in a choke point, and there just happened to be a Maggot still hopping about off to the side. So boom! All tentacles erupt at its spot... targeting the same low priority enemy on the edge of the zone.

So then perhaps then they should all sprout evenly in a zone by default and then just grab whatever's nearby. In the meantime, all I can say is look before you cast.

[Aldenshae]

I always liked Hydroid, but he's always had usefulness issues.  His tentacles and Undertow were fun but the damage was useless, and he didn't have the surviveability he needed to last in higher-end content.

I love the changes, because now he's a lot of fun.  Solo, at least.  You can creep up on enemies and/or yank them in like it's some kind of horror movie.  Makes me giggle all the time.  Undertow in particular is great because of that.  Still damage issues, and if you're not able to coordinate with someone via voice chat or being used to playing with them, though, he ends up in Limbo territory where his abilities hamper your teammates.  That and the damage is still pretty meh, especially against infested. Sadly, he's still not a frame I'd bring along without coordinating with my teammates.

As a suggestion, I'd like to have some kind of indication when there are things inside Undertow.  There have been times when I just couldn't tell if I was still chewing on things unless I squinted and looked for the little numbers popping out.  Some sort of highlight, or a splash decal that shows where the enemy is or something would be nice.  Heck, even a little number showing how many things you're currently drowning.

Everyone has said all the other mechanical things, so I just upvoted what I liked.

[Archwizard]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

...Don't Limbo my Hydroid. X_X

Considering Limbo's rework actually addressed several of the major issues with him, and made him both viable (if annoying) in a fool's hands and divine in experienced hands?

By all means, DE, do Limbo my Hydroid. Twice.

[Suhbekhar]

Why not make tentacle bone as beast now appearing?

Or transparent :>

[FoxFX]

23 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Considering Limbo's rework actually addressed several of the major issues with him, and made him both viable (if annoying) in a fool's hands and divine in experienced hands?

By all means, DE, do Limbo my Hydroid. Twice.

 

While there maybe some similarity to how Limbo drags enemies into his field and Hydroid drags his enemies into water, that does not necessarily mean Hydroid needs to go at a similar route.

Improving the damage of Undertow for some special cost/method would be a great start.

[Archwizard]

3 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

 

While there maybe some similarity to how Limbo drags enemies into his field and Hydroid drags his enemies into water, that does not necessarily mean Hydroid needs to go at a similar route.

Improving the damage of Undertow for some special cost/method would be a great start.

I'm not saying specifically "clone Banish/Cataclysm". Just that DE should feel free to upgrade the Hek out of Hydroid, to the same level as Excalibur or Limbo received.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Archwizard

[VoidPunch]

I would love it if Tidal Surge saw Hydroid sending out the wave from him rather than him becoming the wave. It's a wonky movement ability and he really doesn't need one with his area denial playstyle. However being able to push enemies with a wave, pretty much across a room, would be amazing and really help his kit.

Other than that my main issue is the sheer randomness of his 1 and 4. Have his 1 target an area and when an enemy walks into the area they get hit dead on with a water bomb. His 4th needs to not whip enemies. Have the tentacles hold enemies in place or something.

[TheBlackSpectre]

Hi, some quick feedback for the Hydroid changes...

1) Tentacle Swarm no longer mitigates damage like it used to do. It used to be that enemies that were trapped in a tentacle would not be able to attack, which makes sense. However, now they attack and do a ton of damage. Cast Tentacle Swarm in a defense, and stand in the middle of it. You'll die quick. Please prevent the enemies in Tentacle Swarm from attacking. Thanks.

2) Tentacle Swarm's radius/diameter is way too small now. With 145% range, I cast it once, and all it did was barely cover the cryopod. What's that, a 2 meter radius? Other casts were about double the size, which isn't much.

3) Hydroid was one of my first Warframes. Back then, the single most annoying thing was that Undertow's diameter was way too small. It could not cover 2 doors on one small wall. It made it nearly useless, and I hardly used it because of it. Also the the damage done to enemies was way too little, and it had a very high energy cost. Using Tidal Surge to move the puddle somewhat helps this. Being able to click on an enemy and pull them in is awesome! There are times, though, when clicking on an enemy doesn't pull them in. Not sure why... the puddle wasn't full... In any case, overall it's much better. Energy cost is now a big deal, though, because players will definitely start using Tidal Surge and Tempest Barrage in combination with Undertow in order to mitigate Undertow's drawbacks. I'm not going to recommend it yet, I need to play with it a few more days, but consider lowering energy costs for either Undertow or all three powers that are used in conjunction with it.

I really like how Undertow now looks like water. :)

How about some water weapons? A high pressure super soaker that punches through rock? Or maybe ocean theamed weapons like a Harpoon, Speargun, Fishing Pole (stick/whip with string and hook)?

You could add fog to one of the powers to cause lower perception/stealth... probably Tempest Bararge or Undertow. 

The biggest problem right now is Tentacle Swarm. Other than that, they are improvements. Thank you.

[Toom1275]

Only "bug" I've found is that items gathered by Vacuum while in Undertow don't get collected when leaving it; they have to be picked up manually by hitting the interact key.

And now for a suggestion: Stealth-focused augment for Undertow: have the Kraken eat dead bodies so that others don't get suspicious. (and maybe have the kraken lend a hand (or, well, a tentacle) to extend the "grab" range of bringing distant enemies into Undertow's pool.

[Asdryu]

2 hours ago, DesFrSpace said:

 

Though your dedication is great to a post this big and dedicated is not deserved in there.
Need me to remind you what happened to the feedback made exclusively for one skill?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Asdryu