No more energy regen

[Mudfam]

Energy overflow and the addition of higher level content is what made me come back to Warframe after a year and actually enjoy the gameplay.

I like to spam abilities that provide utility and are part of the action gameplay, not cast OP ults every so often. I like to play squishy frames with Quick Thinking, giving me tense moments when I have to be extra careful after being hit. Energy overflow supports that and solves the problem that most frames can't heal.

So instead of fast paced gameplay where I focus on movement and using my powers in tandem with that and my weapons I have what..? Pizzas? No thanks.

[peterc3]

This is near heresy, I know, but... I played the game before Vacuum was a thing. I played before Focus was introduced. My starter was Mag. And yet all this time later, I still play the game. Sure, the energy regen from Zenurik is nice, but I learned to play without it and I'll play without it in the future.

[dealingtrap]

@peterc3, i played the game without sentinel and focus too, i am just saying that without those i would probably have left the game to play something else a while ago, because not having energy overflow corner the way i enjoy the game to some really limited choices of warframe/build. But i totally understand if some players currently enjoy playing without zenurik, good for them, they can already do that, i just don't see why they would prefer others not to have that option.

[jmthebigman]

14 hours ago, Jareson said:

Zenurik bandaided the energy economy all these years and because of that, we have gotten used to just having energy. If that passive is removed, then its actually better for the game because we can finally have it addressed as an actual fix, and not a bandaid.

I didn't get a Zenurik lens for a long time, and when I finally did, I kept it on constantly, which made the rest of the focus system sort of useless. Energy needs more depth to it, but focus is holding it back.

Mostly because everything else was lackluster including zenurik itself....

[W3zeer]

12 hours ago, Chipputer said:

The focus system has had problems since its inception and the only way to fix them is to completely redesign it. Glad they are. Just hoping it'll be decent.

While i absolutley agree with this point, the current focus system definetly has all the flaws you pointed out, I don't think the way the are "reworking" it now is a good one. Because they straight up just remove it without anything that will take its place even being on the horizon. If they had announced that a rework of the energy economy will come at the same time, everything would be fine. The time until then has me worried though because most "fun" builds will be too muh of a pain to use, so the game will revert to meta squads.

[Mudfam]

Not everyone is in the same boat when it comes to energy. There are frames that don't need much energy at all, or just don't really benefit much from Energy Overflow. Others rely heavily on using their abilities frequently, and Quick Thinking to prevent OHKOs. For those the removal of Energy Overflow is murder.

For some frames / builds it means you won't be able to forego efficiency in builds, but that's relatively small price to pay and I think a fairly limited case.

Seems to me zenurik only as popular as it is with people who don't need it just because there isn't anything else that's very useful or interesting. I definitely don't see passive energy regen being the foundation of cheesy and lazy meta tactis.

I suppose a real issue is being able to use grossly overpowered CC ults with more frequency, but I dare say the problem is with how overpowered these abilities are than the ability to use your abilities in the first place. Preventing its usage isn't a good way to balance something.

The game is a mix of hugely overpowered abilities and small utlity ones that cost almost as much energy. Near invicible tanky frames and extremely fragile ones. The energy economy is horrid without EO, it brought some balance that made non meta builds and playstyles more viable and self-sufficient.

Finally there's the problem that with with regular high level missions like floods and sorties, Corrosive Projection is less of an alternative to Energy Siphon but more of a requirement. As long as scaling gives enemies in regular missions you just hop into 96% damage reduction and over 2 million EHP we have a very serious problem that only CP can solve efficienty.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

This is near heresy, I know, but... I played the game before Vacuum was a thing. I played before Focus was introduced. My starter was Mag. And yet all this time later, I still play the game. Sure, the energy regen from Zenurik is nice, but I learned to play without it and I'll play without it in the future.

 

There are also a more build options available to frames now then back in the day.

Removing Zenurik just makes Fleeting Expertise a staple mod for more frames again. We lose a mod slot, possibly two and have less build versatility as a result. Just like our weapons which have at best 2 slots left for our own preference these days. Running two Augments? Well, prolly not after this.

[RistN]

16 hours ago, (Xbox One)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

RIP my blind rage chroma..

You know that Chroma's Vex armor are high enough without max strength?That is if you mean you use Vex build.Duration is also very high.I have 200% strength and around 50+ secounds of duration.Now,Chroma does massive dmg  with Fury maxed so number of kills it does makes sure orbs drop and you have enough energy for next cast.If you have arcane energize thats even better.

[-N7-Leonhart]

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

Energy siphon is a poor excuse to generate sufficient energy and honestly just ALWAYS left me wanting something more effective. I also couldn't stand using blind rage due to the poor energy economy. Zenuriks energy regen was the only thing that encouraged and allowed me to have fun with high energy cost builds... Orbs are just RNG.. RIP my blind rage chroma.. You were barely able to recast powers after your duration ran out. Now you cannot XD well everyone. Hope our focus trees so t get the nerf too hard.

Funny, I have a Blind Rage Chroma with no energy efficiency, and I almost always have the energy capped. Think about it, Chroma is meant to take damage, so the obvious answer is the mod Rage.

[Nyaa314]

17 hours ago, Jareson said:

because we can finally have it addressed as an actual fix

I hope it gets fixed as fast as redeemer being silent!

[Fallen_Echo]

18 hours ago, Jareson said:

Zenurik bandaided the energy economy all these years and because of that, we have gotten used to just having energy. If that passive is removed, then its actually better for the game because we can finally have it addressed as an actual fix, and not a bandaid.

I didn't get a Zenurik lens for a long time, and when I finally did, I kept it on constantly, which made the rest of the focus system sort of useless. Energy needs more depth to it, but focus is holding it back.

You think so?

How many of the past nerfs actually made DE move and actually fix problems?

Remember that we were able to vacuum up the ayatan stars and those fissure thingies? There was a problem what made these items fall throught floors and such after vacuuming so DE instead of actually fixing their behaviour they just removed the ability to vacuum them. No fixes, nothing and if you run a mission you can still find some stars falling throught the floors continously because they never bothered to fix it.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Not everyone is in the same boat when it comes to energy. There are frames that don't need much energy at all, or just don't really benefit much from Energy Overflow. Others rely heavily on using their abilities frequently, and Quick Thinking to prevent OHKOs. For those the removal of Energy Overflow is murder.

For some frames / builds it means you won't be able to forego efficiency in builds, but that's relatively small price to pay and I think a fairly limited case.

Seems to me zenurik only as popular as it is with people who don't need it just because there isn't anything else that's very useful or interesting. I definitely don't see passive energy regen being the foundation of cheesy and lazy meta tactis.

I suppose a real issue is being able to use grossly overpowered CC ults with more frequency, but I dare say the problem is with how overpowered these abilities are than the ability to use your abilities in the first place. Preventing its usage isn't a good way to balance something.

The game is a mix of hugely overpowered abilities and small utlity ones that cost almost as much energy. Near invicible tanky frames and extremely fragile ones. The energy economy is horrid without EO, it brought some balance that made non meta builds and playstyles more viable and self-sufficient.

Finally there's the problem that with with regular high level missions like floods and sorties, Corrosive Projection is less of an alternative to Energy Siphon but more of a requirement. As long as scaling gives enemies in regular missions you just hop into 96% damage reduction and over 2 million EHP we have a very serious problem that only CP can solve efficienty.

Too many build require to max out power strenght to be useful, to sacrafice efficiency to make something into a decent skill, too many frames rely on quick thinking and their powers to survive even at middle level zones. 

I dont want to remake all my builds to include double efficiency mods, to make them useable, i might aswell pick up trinity, harrow or octavia and became the must have player in the group.

[Miburec]

Here's a little anecdote from my own experience as a solo player:

When I started playing Warframe the first thing I learned about this game the hard way was that your energy pool is limited and doesn't refill on its own. As fun as the first part of the introduction was (i.e. Lotus surging the frames energy giving you unlimited ability usage), the game never tells you that this surge is only temprorary, nor does it tell you that it doesn't regenerate on its own. I completely drained my energy on the first few grineer which dared to stand in my way but then - nothing. Zero energy, I had to revert to gunplay.

This left me being constantly affraid of runing out of power from the very start of the game and it lasted long. Very long. It resulted in not using any powers at all unless the situation completely went down south - and even then I was hesitant to use abilities, I rather tried to get out of those dire situations by movement and gunplay.

So for the first few hundred hours my mod loadout consisted of Vitality, Redirection, Vigor, Fast Deflection, Steel Fiber, Enemy Sense and Thiefs Witt. The last slot was empty most of the time, although sometimes I fooled around with resistance mods. The first Aura I got was Rejuvenation. It took some time to get Energy Siphon but it turned out to be highly innefective as a main source of energy regeneration. So I kept using Rejuvenation. Everything to increase the survivability of my Frame. Being able to see Enemies on the minimap to avoid them or to look for a more advantageous position to fight them. Loot radar to keep me supplied with Ammo. This habit didn't change even after getting my hands on other frames. If they were beefy enough to survive with this mod set up I considered using them. If not, I discarded them as useless (for me). I allways wondered why certain frames were so immensely popular, because I couldn't understand how players were able to keep their energy maxed, let alone mod them to survive. Energy restoration pads were way too expensive for me to build so they were more like an emergency kit than something you could throw arround just use your abilities consistently. Energy Orbs were way to scarce to make any difference (and still are up to this day, RNG really hates me in this regard).

The moment I got my hands on Equilibrium (the first Mod I actually farmed) I tried that - but intentionally taking health damage to be able to pick up health orbs to replenish my energy didn't work for me, especially without a frame which had some sort of self heal. Same with the Rage mod.

The first Frame I got which changed that habit was Limbo. Darvo had him on sale with a huge discount (iirc 80%) and, oh boy... It was a relieve to be able to actually utilize my powers somewhat consistently, although being forced to wait a bit while rift walking. I came up with some clever usage of his powers to cheese the game, using his weaknesses and restrains to my advantage

I was playing through the quests in chronoligcal order, so it took me a while to get to the second dream - the only exception to that was Sands of Inaros. And this pocket sand throwing space mummy ninja was the first one which opened up constant ability usage without wait or any kind of downtime or any bandaid consumable - thanks to the rage mod, his immense helath/armor pool and no shields.

That's why Limbo and Inaros are still my most used frames. While Limbo didn't see much use after his rework since my way of utilizing his powers wasn't viable anymore, Inaros is still my BAE up to this day.

But after finishing the second dream and maxing out zenuriks energy overflow I had a way to play around with other frames and their powers. And I never thought that 4 energy per second was cheesy or overpowered.

As I mentioned before I play mostly solo and although having more than 1k hours of playtime I yet have to see a trial from the inside, so arcanes are out of question.

And no, I won't spend more than 400 plat on a single arcane just to fix a game mechanic which imho needs some makeover - despite that, being shunned by RNG it wouldn't make much of a difference for me, since it needs energy orbs to trigger. And if energy orbs would drop more consistnently for me I wouldn't have this issue to begin with.

 

TL;DR

Relying on energy orbs to use powers feels more like picking up a temporary power-up than refilling a vital resource to me. Arcanes are toys for experienced players at best. And energy pads are imho way more cheesy to circumvent an energy shortage than zenuriks passive ever will be.

If it were up to me, I'd center the whole energy management around a passive regeneration - like some sort of stamina bar. Usage drains it, rest refills it.

 

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

I haven't seen this anywhere, so did I get this right?

They removed Energy Overflow and left Shadow Step as it is?!?

 

[NightBlitz]

1 minute ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

I haven't seen this anywhere, so did I get this right?

They removed Energy Overflow and left Shadow Step as it is?!?

 

naw, they're tearing apart the focus system entirely and neither EO nor Shadow step will be there when its done

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

1 minute ago, NightBlitz said:

naw, they're tearing apart the focus system entirely and neither EO nor Shadow step will be there when its done

Is it in the patch notes somewhere or just mentioned in a stream or something?

[NightBlitz]

Just now, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

Is it in the patch notes somewhere or just mentioned in a stream or something?

not out yet, it was covered in yesterdays dev stream. it'll be part of the Plains of Eidolon,

[Lost_Cartographer]

If we want a balanced game with less cheese from our enemies, we're first going to have to lose our cheese.  A lot of the enemy cheese is about mitigating powers or is countered by an anti-knockdown mod anyway.  Give up something to make room for handspring, FFS.

Taking way our focus school empowerment is only a step on a long journey.

[CantIHaveAShow]

Am I in the minority because i have the Energy passive maxed and I dont care im losing it. ill just adapt to it like every other change.

[DreamsmithJane]

2 hours ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

Is it in the patch notes somewhere or just mentioned in a stream or something?

LOL, there's always that one person who shows up late, all "hey guys, what's going on?" :P

From devstream 98, timestamped (section is about 4 minutes):

Spoiler

TL;DW: They're taking a "sledgehammer" to the focus system and starting over. Shadow Step and Energy Overflow are both gone. Later in the video: "You will be able to customize your operator quite heavily for combat", with a crafting system for tools that focus void power, have fire/alt-fire like warframe guns, et cetera. New operator armor, craftable arcanes (also compatible with previous cosmetics). The remade focus system will revolve around the operator as a warrior. Not shown: some of the functionality of removed focus passives may return through new arcanes available in the Plains.

In short, if you want your focus passives back, you'll probably have to grind for them again, but then you won't have to wait until your first focus power activation in every mission to use them. They will probably be significantly rebalanced, as well.

[Kaotyke]

22 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

In short, if you want your focus passives back, you'll probably have to grind for them again,

They letting us keep the points we acumulated untill now and re-spect.

So you will likely be in the exact same spot as before after distributing them all.

[DreamsmithJane]

5 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

They letting us keep the points we acumulated untill now and re-spect.

So you will likely be in the exact same spot as before after distributing them all.

No... Like I literally just said in that same post, those passives will be gone from the focus tree. You will have to re-acquire them through crafting arcanes for your operator. Yes, you will get your focus points refunded for a complete re-spec. But you will not be able to use those focus points to buy those passives. They'll be gone, replaced by operator-focused abilities.

Edited September 16, 2017 by DreamsmithJane

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Twilightsparkill said:

Am I in the minority because i have the Energy passive maxed and I dont care im losing it. ill just adapt to it like every other change.

I would like to think that you aren't in the minority.  I'm the same myself.   I honestly think that the those that are vocally against it in the forums only represent a very small part of all the Warframe players.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by DatDarkOne
grammar

[Kaotyke]

16 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I would like to think that you aren't in the minority.  I'm the same myself.   I honestly think that the those that are vocally against it in the forums only represent a very small part of the all the Warframe players.  

And its extremly small considering we pratically see so many familiar names.

The Forums is very likely to be less than 1% of the total playerbase.

[Soketsu]

Some people actually think it will change toward a "challenging" game

I'm impressed to be that naive x)