Mag should be the next frame DE should look at

[(PSN)TertulSee]

3 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Listen to this Mag Prime person, they have a point:

One of the most important things about radial abilities is that, regardless of how effective it is against a single unit, the fact that you're doing that same effect to every single unit in range means that the more enemies you catch with it, the more effect you're having.

A level 90 Heavy Gunner has 6000 and some odd numbers Armour. Your build for 211% power strength strips just around 1100 armour points a time, so by rights it should only take six casts, but that's Warframe for you... Armour scaling is a little broken... in any case, seven casts. Seven casts and whether there's just one Heavy Gunner or one thousand, that's all the armour stripped off them.

Do you know how much effective damage you dealt in those seven casts? A Heavy Gunner at level 90 has 30,558 Health with 6086 Armour which gives her 95.3% damage reduction, that means she has an effective health of 650,170 Health (over 20 times her actual health). You have dealt an Effective Damage of 619,312 to every level 90 Heavy Gunner in range with those seven casts. Now that is damn powerful.

But why would you do that and waste so much energy when a frame such as Frost can do it faster and better? Oberon does it better as well. Hell, even Hydroid has a better armor strip. I do not understand the logic that makes Mag better. They all serve different purposes but Mag lacks the least reason to use her Armor strip.

[MagPrime]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

The problem is that she can only kill enemies one at a time

Are you sure it's Mag you've been playing?

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Her Magnitize pull can barely keep anything inside the bubble.

Agreed.  It's annoying as all get out that I have to drop all 4 bubbles just to maintain a decent barrier.  I'd rather have the option of holding 3 and getting one super powerful Magnetize bubble.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Her Polarize can’t even strip armor at level 60 Efficiently.

Also agreed.  But it doesn't have to when she can put out insane damage via the shard bursts.  Please see Thayliens post for numbers.  If you want to have full armor strip, use the combination of Fracturing Crush and Polarize.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Her Pull is only mediocre compared to the other first abilities we have in game.

Her Pull is amazing CC (granted it could use some work to improve reliability) and isn't meant to kill mid to high level targets.  From what I know of almost all other 1 abilities, non of them are supposed to be one hit kill powers.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

If she could have multiple bubbles, it might be worth considering her.

Are you SURE you're playing Mag?

 

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

A frame that needs Energy Pads constantly to do something isn’t realistic.

Agreed, 100%  She has needed a power pool buff for a long time.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

I don’t know what type of content you guys are doing but I often run missions that are either Sorties or farming nodes. They are all high level content and I can barely survive 10 waves on Akkad or Hydron.

Sorties, Void, Corpus, Grineer endless.  I even dabble in Infested missions, just for the lels with my experimental builds.  May I ask what build you're using?

I know, I know, people get upset when I ask this because they feel I'm discrediting their feedback due to "bad builds" but...not being able to survive 10 waves doesn't sound right to me.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

But why would you do that and waste so much energy when a frame such as Frost can do it faster and better? Oberon does it better as well. Hell, even Hydroid has a better armor strip. I do not understand the logic that makes Mag better. They all serve different purposes but Mag lacks the least reason to use her Armor strip.

Yes, there are 'frames that do everything better.  But not everyone finds "doing it better" to be fun.  I am not a META player (but I do use it) and I play what makes me laugh or ha a visually pleasing effect.  I may not kill things with Pull, but I do feel better watching them faceplant on a wall and slide down it.

 

Just to be clear; she does need work.  But she's not as bad as she's being made out to be.

Edited September 30, 2017 by MagPrime

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

The only thing we agree on is that magnetize should have a slightly stronger CC as enemies to tend to just waltz out of it. That said tho, pull is GREAT cc for super cheap and almost never stops being a decent quick CC. Im not sure why you say she can only kill one enemy at once as magnetize does UNGODLY amounts of damage in a massive area. Im no numbers pro, but I'd wager that this is one of the most damaging abilities in the entire game,, and the augment just makes it even better. Crush is kinda meh, but I mainly use it for stripping armor or quick room wide panic CC. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by (XB1)qcevolution

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

The only thing we agree on is that magnetize should have a slightly stronger CC as enemies to tend to just waltz out of it.

Now that would be cool to have.  

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Polarize is absolutely useless past level 40. And trust me, as a Mag main, that is fact. Polarize does not scale in any way. Magnetize is her best ability. You must've not played Mag since 2015.

And I'm guessing you're the type of player to bring a frame in the simulacrum and strictly base your opinion on that? Probably. I'm getting the highest kill count every time I bring a Mag in Hydron. Her polarize is amazing for damage . Sure, with the absurd amount of armor higher lvl enemies have, the armor stripping kinda looses it's efficiency. You won't have a good time bringing her to 4 or 5 hours of survival. But saying she's useless is a very bold statement. She's good for the whole starchart including sorties. Maybe you're builds aren't quite right. 

Maybe DE could do something like Oberon's armor stripping? Enemies affected by Polarize receive % of armor reduction when casting Crush. 

[Carnage2K4]

5 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

And you forget that ancients exist.

Which is why, like every frame, you supplement your build with weapons...

[(PSN)TertulSee]

2 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

And I'm guessing you're the type of player to bring a frame in the simulacrum and strictly base your opinion on that? Probably. I'm getting the highest kill count every time I bring a Mag in Hydron. Her polarize is amazing for damage . Sure, with the absurd amount of armor higher lvl enemies have, the armor stripping kinda looses it's efficiency. You won't have a good time bringing her to 4 or 5 hours of survival. But saying she's useless is a very bold statement. She's good for the whole starchart including sorties. Maybe you're builds aren't quite right. 

Maybe DE could do something like Oberon's armor stripping? Enemies affected by Polarize receive % of armor reduction when casting Crush. 

I kinda like it being like Shattering Impact better.

[rudman88]

what the point of upgrading a frame ability jsut for it to be oped and nerfed and become junbk again LOL

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Alot of the frames didnt come out perfect. Mag is no exception. Not that she doesnt deserve attention, but it would do more to ask for DE to rethink the concept of a rework. Which i think they did already when they started "revisiting" rather than "reworking".

I can complain about Volt all day long. Doesnt convince anyone.

 

[Mudfam]

Uh, I really must oject to some of the things said in this thread.

Mag cannot strip armour. At 200 power strength it takes 1 crush + 3 polarise to strip armour from a level 100 heavy unit, that's 325 energy, and a whole lot of time. It also takes an augment and decent duration in the build. If that's stripping armour then I'm definitely Superman.

I mean, we have an augment for her 4 to do what her 3 is supposed to do, and it still doesn't work...

Enemies affected by pull will fly right through a magnetise bubble, and somewhere behind you, usually leaving you in a tactically less advantageous position than before.

Mag is not bad, I play her quite a lot, but in higher level content I resort to only using her 2. Crush is ok CC but too expensive for what it does and her micro energy pool, pull is too unpredictable and polarise is a completely and utterly worthless crap garbage junk trash waste of an ability slot. Abilities based only on numbers that become entirely insignificant past low levels should never be a thing.

One could argue that it's enemy scaling and the way armour corners our build choices that should be fixed, but the fact is that mag's kit as whole stops being functional in higher level content. You can still take her further than most frames with the right magnetise focused loadout, but it's extremely boring and limiting.

[Biddion]

The only change I would want is to have Pull "pull" enemies not towards Mag, but to a Magnetize bubble when aiming at a bubble.

[TentownsRaid]

Shouldn't Zephyr be the next frame for a rework? She is the least played frame from what I remember and her uses are mute due to every other frame can due better in almost every category except survival. Which with Zephyr thats even RNG based.

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

But why would you do that and waste so much energy when a frame such as Frost can do it faster and better? Oberon does it better as well. Hell, even Hydroid has a better armor strip. I do not understand the logic that makes Mag better. They all serve different purposes but Mag lacks the least reason to use her Armor strip.

And this is where you're not understanding that people don't run the frame for one specific function. It's the combination of functions that make the frame different.

She might not have as powerful armour stripping as other frames that also happen to have armour stripping, true, but you have to realise that this is a bonus to the frame. A bonus to all of these frames.

If everyone played this game based purely on what does what best, you would only ever see World on Fire Embers in under level 30 maps where they have the damage to one-shot everything and complete the mission quickly because of it. You would only ever see Loki and Ivara in Spy missions, you would only ever see Vortex Vauban in Infested Defense with a Speed Nova to help.

It's a preference, and a gameplay choice to make. If you don't like the frame, that's entirely fine, but you have to realise that the frame has its own things it does and a style you need to adopt to get the best out of it, you can't force every frame to play the way you want to play this game.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

And this is where you're not understanding that people don't run the frame for one specific function. It's the combination of functions that make the frame different.

She might not have as powerful armour stripping as other frames that also happen to have armour stripping, true, but you have to realise that this is a bonus to the frame. A bonus to all of these frames.

If everyone played this game based purely on what does what best, you would only ever see World on Fire Embers in under level 30 maps where they have the damage to one-shot everything and complete the mission quickly because of it. You would only ever see Loki and Ivara in Spy missions, you would only ever see Vortex Vauban in Infested Defense with a Speed Nova to help.

It's a preference, and a gameplay choice to make. If you don't like the frame, that's entirely fine, but you have to realise that the frame has its own things it does and a style you need to adopt to get the best out of it, you can't force every frame to play the way you want to play this game.

Thank you for saying this.  I always wonder why some players build their frames for just one power.  I myself just can't do that. 

Most tend to build Mag for Magnetize with high duration.  I instead went very low duration and all the others very high.  I can still use Magnetize to take out tough enemies while also having all her other powers be very effective.  I like using her because when using all of her powers Mag can go "Beast Mode" and take complete control of an area.  *que evil laugh*  Mwuhahahahahaha

[motorfirebox]

On 9/30/2017 at 1:00 PM, Sintag said:

I mean, if you have teammates who are coordinating with you and firing on the now-suspended and helpless enemies, there's that advantage.  I find Crush a great 'oh crap' button if I need enemies to just stop for a moment, long enough to blink, assess the situation, and either apply Magnetize, get to safety, or take enemies down.

It's not even really all that great for that, though, because the animation locks you down almost as long as it does the enemies. It can be used as an "oh crap" button, but it doesn't do that job very well, especially compared to a lot of other frames.

The biggest things that Mag needs right now are energy and survivability. She's a caster frame with a hilariously awful energy pool, and she depends on shields for survival in a game that has about a million enemies that bypass shields. Bump her energy up to Loki/Nova levels, and give her an extra passive: her current shields are added to her armor. 

[motorfirebox]

18 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

To Kill a single Heavy Gunner is enough to warrant a buff. The problem is that she can only kill enemies one at a time. Her Magnitize pull can barely keep anything inside the bubble. Her Polarize can’t even strip armor at level 60 Efficiently. Her Pull is only mediocre compared to the other first abilities we have in game. Ash can kill one at a time but he does it really fast. Mag kills one enemy really slowly even with a low duration build. If she could have multiple bubbles, it might be worth considering her. Enemies aren’t very oftentimes condensed into a single room. Mag isn’t very useful in the context of the game as a whole. A frame that needs Energy Pads constantly to do something isn’t realistic. I don’t know what type of content you guys are doing but I often run missions that are either Sorties or farming nodes. They are all high level content and I can barely survive 10 waves on Akkad or Hydron. There hasn’t been any problem with any frame except Zephyr (currently) and Mag. I do expect Zephyr to get tweaks when her prime comes but I feel like Mag is more lacking than Chroma right now. 

I'm genuinely confused by this entire post. When I play Mag, which is fairly often, I generally get top kills, so I'm not sure where this "one at a time" idea comes from. And... she can have multiple bubbles up. She can have up to four.

She does eat a lot of energy, which I currently manage via Zenurik.  As I said in the post above, she's a straight caster frame and she needs an energy pool to match. We'll see what happens when PoE hits, but from what DE has said so far, it sounds like I'll still be able to manage energy fairly well with focus abilities. If she gets a decent-sized energy pool, even that won't be all that pressing.

Mag has a lot of issues with her powers, but despite those she remains an exceptionally lethal frame. If that isn't your experience, I think you're probably playing her differently than I do.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

She does eat a lot of energy

I resolved mine by giving her the Supra Vandal with Entropy Burst.  Amazing what a high RoF gas/corrosive build energy return weapon can do for her.  hehe

[motorfirebox]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I resolved mine by giving her the Supra Vandal with Entropy Burst.  Amazing what a high RoF gas/corrosive build energy return weapon can do for her.  hehe

Yeah, I went with Telos Boltor for the survivability. There's options.

[MxRose]

I think zephyr needs to be looked at more then any other frame. mag isnt perfect but at least 1/2 her kit and her passive wasnt made redundant by parkour 2.0

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

23 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

And you forget that ancients exist.

Ancients don't stop Crush. Ancient Disruptors can lower the effect duration, but as I said, since it's two instances of lifts, this is negated.

Only Abilities with guaranteed cc are Crush and Rhino Stomp

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 9/30/2017 at 11:31 PM, Stoner74 said:

And I'm guessing you're the type of player to bring a frame in the simulacrum and strictly base your opinion on that? Probably. I'm getting the highest kill count every time I bring a Mag in Hydron. Her polarize is amazing for damage . Sure, with the absurd amount of armor higher lvl enemies have, the armor stripping kinda looses it's efficiency. You won't have a good time bringing her to 4 or 5 hours of survival. But saying she's useless is a very bold statement. She's good for the whole starchart including sorties. Maybe you're builds aren't quite right. 

Maybe DE could do something like Oberon's armor stripping? Enemies affected by Polarize receive % of armor reduction when casting Crush. 

No, because actually, I play Mag all the time literally. And yes I also get the highest kill count in Hydron every single time, which is why I will admit that I was exaggerating. What I should have said is that the effectiveness of Polarize falls off after level 40. Polarize, the move based around the premise of removing armor and shields gets out classed by many others at this point and it's sad.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Ancients don't stop Crush. Ancient Disruptors can lower the effect duration, but as I said, since it's two instances of lifts, this is negated.

Only Abilities with guaranteed cc are Crush and Rhino Stomp

Ancient's can disable the guaranteed CC, it's happened to me many times. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Ancient's can disable the guaranteed CC, it's happened to me many times. 

This must be a newer change, because I always used Mag with Fracturing Crush against infested without ever a problem.
Well then, I guess it's down to Rhino Stomp. How long ago this happen to you?

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

This must be a newer change, because I always used Mag with Fracturing Crush against infested without ever a problem.
Well then, I guess it's down to Rhino Stomp. How long ago this happen to you?

Well, the last time was about a month ago. Haven't done a Corrupted Survival since then.

[MagPrime]

5 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Ancient's can disable the guaranteed CC, it's happened to me many times. 

I've never seen them disable it.  There have been times when they, and other mobs, will continue moving as if they ignore it but I always assumed it was a big of some kind because of how inconsistent it was. 

It wasn't every Ancient ignoring it, it was sporadic, and not even exclusively Ancients.