LSG501 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Shoelip said: @LSG501 You aren't losing anything except the feeling of being special for having logged into an online video game for a second on seven hundred consecutive days. let me guess you haven't actually spent the time getting there to understand the amount of effort it actually requires to consistently login in to a game for nearly 2 YEARS (in some cases they've been doing it even longer).... it's all very well saying you just have to log in but it is something you actually have to physically do and if it wasn't such an effort why do we constantly have threads where people are complaining they need to log in for 700 days to get something which as many keep pointing out is little more than MR standing (DE could easily remove their MR standing as they could do for other 'special' items)... You just got to love a sense of entitlement to stuff without actually working for it that the younger generation seems to have these days,,,, Edited November 7, 2017 by LSG501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoelip Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) I haven't. I understand that if it actually takes a significant amount of effort to log in to a video game every day for minor rewards then it's not worth doing and should be changed. It's a video game, it's supposed to be entertainment, or at least art, not labor. The reason people complain they need to log in for 700 days is because it takes 700 days. Yeah... "entitlement". All these filthy casuals who waste their time doing stuff in real life sometimes or just playing other games instead of spending the effort to log in to the same single video game for 700 consecutive days are so damned lazy. Edited November 7, 2017 by Shoelip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: The thing is, the change didn't happen yet. And it might not happen at all. Or might happen in a really bad way. For example, what are they going to do with players who have like 10 days till the next reward? I have maybe 10-15 days till Zenith. What will I have to start from 50 days now? True, it may not happen but it sounded like it was going to be and it's not game breaking or anything so I think it'll happen, it's just a matter of when. Also, they won't screw you over on login rewards. I'm confident that would cause an outrage that even if they did do that, we would complain so much they would change it. You'll either get to pick your current progress or you'll be locked in for whatever reward you're currently going for and get to pick after that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 They gave you epeens and they can take them back. Can you take anything back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Shoelip said: All these filthy casuals who waste their time doing stuff in real life sometimes or just playing other games instead of spending the effort to log in to the same single video game for 700 consecutive days are so damned lazy. Yet according to many others it is just a simple log in and log out which takes all of 10 seconds every day..... if you're a player that is a casual as you imply then you can supposedly still be able to find the time to do it (according to others who keep saying you 'only need to login, not play the game') or in reality because of the number of weapons in game they don't really need the login weapons because they likely haven't run out of MR from every other weapon/frame in game and the weapons aren't really that good apart from the utility of zenistar on defence type missions.. 4 hours ago, Shoelip said: I haven't. I understand that if it actually takes a significant amount of effort to log in to a video game every day for minor rewards then it's not worth doing and should be changed. I do wish people would make their minds up if something is an effort or not..... if the weapons are such minor rewards why do you actually want them so badly yet don't want to make the effort to get them.... Edited November 7, 2017 by LSG501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 hours ago, LSG501 said: let me guess you haven't actually spent the time getting there to understand the amount of effort it actually requires to consistently login in to a game for nearly 2 YEARS Yeah, I've been playing this game for a couple years with over 1000 hours played. Does that translate to 700 days played? If I logged in every day sure but it does take effort to login when you don't plan on actually playing. And forcing it will only burn you out (talking from experience). But when I bum out one a weekend and play more than is healthy because I'm too busy during the week where usually I want to just pass out by the time I get home. This is the issue I have with login rewards. 2 years, over 1000 hours, and I don't have Zenistar yet. It doesn't reward loyalty. It rewards addiction. And not just any addiction. Daily addiction. I play more than I should when I have free time and it locks some fun parts of the game behind it (unique weapons). I want a Zenistar but I'm totally fine if I never get it. But that doesn't mean this is a good mechanic they have. No one should ever be rewarded for doing nothing (logging in with no intention of playing is doing nothing). You want to throw some resources, booster, or cosmetics behind the login rewards then sure. Resources boosters are great. They give you an incentive to actually play the game. But don't throw a piece of the game behind login rewards. And someone who played 1000 hours is more rewarding of a Zenistar than someone who logged in 300 times and didn't play. And here I am talking about a Zenistar, the 300 day reward. Maybe in 3000 hours I'll get the 700 day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 hours ago, LSG501 said: let me guess you haven't actually spent the time getting there to understand the amount of effort it actually requires to consistently login in to a game for nearly 2 YEARS (in some cases they've been doing it even longer).... it's all very well saying you just have to log in but it is something you actually have to physically do and if it wasn't such an effort why do we constantly have threads where people are complaining they need to log in for 700 days to get something which as many keep pointing out is little more than MR standing (DE could easily remove their MR standing as they could do for other 'special' items)... You just got to love a sense of entitlement to stuff without actually working for it that the younger generation seems to have these days,,,, It doesn't require anything except opportune circumstance, there is no special effort involved in logging into a game for a minute, or having an open enough schedule to be able to do so consistency, it's just a matter of opportunity. Do not confuse having a more convenient life with working harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: True, it may not happen but it sounded like it was going to be and it's not game breaking or anything so I think it'll happen, it's just a matter of when. Also, they won't screw you over on login rewards. I'm confident that would cause an outrage that even if they did do that, we would complain so much they would change it. You'll either get to pick your current progress or you'll be locked in for whatever reward you're currently going for and get to pick after that one. Everything "sounds like it's going to be" with DE. You judge how well it comes to being in the end. Personally, I have absolutely no confidence in anything related to future updates. @Shoelip 7 hours ago, Shoelip said: I mean, if they're remotely competent... which ya know... they are, they'll just start you out 10-15 days away from getting the zenith then let you choose your next reward after you reach it. 7 hours ago, Shoelip said: if they're remotely competent... 7 hours ago, Shoelip said: remotely competent... We'll see. Edited November 7, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 2 hours ago, MuscleBeach said: Yeah, I've been playing this game for a couple years with over 1000 hours played. Does that translate to 700 days played? If I logged in every day sure but it does take effort to login when you don't plan on actually playing. And forcing it will only burn you out (talking from experience). But when I bum out one a weekend and play more than is healthy because I'm too busy during the week where usually I want to just pass out by the time I get home. This is the issue I have with login rewards. 2 years, over 1000 hours, and I don't have Zenistar yet. It doesn't reward loyalty. It rewards addiction. And not just any addiction. Daily addiction. I play more than I should when I have free time and it locks some fun parts of the game behind it (unique weapons). I want a Zenistar but I'm totally fine if I never get it. But that doesn't mean this is a good mechanic they have. No one should ever be rewarded for doing nothing (logging in with no intention of playing is doing nothing). You want to throw some resources, booster, or cosmetics behind the login rewards then sure. Resources boosters are great. They give you an incentive to actually play the game. But don't throw a piece of the game behind login rewards. And someone who played 1000 hours is more rewarding of a Zenistar than someone who logged in 300 times and didn't play. And here I am talking about a Zenistar, the 300 day reward. Maybe in 3000 hours I'll get the 700 day. To be honest, you could argue you're actually quite lucky with how the login system currently works. DE has made it so that you don't have to start over every time you take a break from the game so even if you can't login for a week you'll still have all your previous logins unlike many other games I've played where they actually reset your login streaks if you miss a day etc. Yes it will take you longer to get to the rewards if you take breaks but at least you can still get to them, just imagine if the game reset your streaks and you had to have a break for some reason at day 99 out of 100 days.... If someone has just logged in 300 times they won't have any MR mastery to use said weapon and it can't be traded etc. You can't even use it because according to your forum username (yes I know you could have an alt account) you're MR3 and the zenistar is MR6.... Like I said earlier, apart from the zenistar which works well for defence etc the other weapons aren't that special so no one is missing out on much apart from a bit of MR (which is pretty pointless after MR16 for rivens), hell the zenith alt fire is almost worthless because the dots pointing out enemies don't even stick to the target 90% of the time. 1 hour ago, Cubewano said: It doesn't require anything except opportune circumstance, there is no special effort involved in logging into a game for a minute, or having an open enough schedule to be able to do so consistency, it's just a matter of opportunity. Do not confuse having a more convenient life with working harder. and those of us who manage to do both..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, LSG501 said: and those of us who manage to do both..... would still not change that the login system is hardly a reward system for effort/work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Educated_Beast Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Sounds like a good change to me and I've been playing for years. Of course I've never been one to gloat and show off. Sounds like you have a huge e-peen. Must be at least 2 feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleBeach Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 21 minutes ago, LSG501 said: E has made it so that you don't have to start over every time you take a break from the game so even if you can't login for a week you'll still have all your previous logins unlike many other games I've played where they actually reset your login streaks if you miss a day etc. Yes it will take you longer to get to the rewards if you take breaks but at least you can still get to them, just imagine if the game reset your streaks and you had to have a break for some reason at day 99 out of 100 days.... Yes, this is something I'm very happy about. Although, it does reset your daily resource options and stuff (it's really small). I read a while back that it did so idk if they changed it since but it was small enough that it doesn't matter or feel punishing for not playing. 23 minutes ago, LSG501 said: You can't even use it because according to your forum username (yes I know you could have an alt account) you're MR3 and the zenistar is MR6.... I don't know why it says Gold Initiate. Maybe it's a rank on the forums, not actual mastery rank. My MR is 23, halfway to 24 and this is my main and only account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said: Of course I've never been one to gloat and show off. Sounds like you have a huge e-peen. Must be at least 2 feet! Ah yes, it's all about gloating and showing off when people are raising a dislike to a change to something they've invested a not inconsiderable amount of time into only for it to be completely nullified by a change that is basically being done to cater for 'new players' that want everything straight away without any of the investment of time that those of us at the higher end of the daily logins have had to endure. 30 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said: I don't know why it says Gold Initiate. Maybe it's a rank on the forums, not actual mastery rank. My MR is 23, halfway to 24 and this is my main and only account. Weird because mine is actually synced up with my in game MR which is also 23... maybe you need to logout and log back in on forums to update like with the username images. EDIT: actually no mine isn't synced either, it's likely due to 'auto logging in' then Edited November 8, 2017 by LSG501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoelip Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Educated_Beast said: Sounds like a good change to me and I've been playing for years. Of course I've never been one to gloat and show off. Sounds like you have a huge e-peen. Must be at least 2 feet! If you look at this guy's profile he's actually only been here since may of 2016. I don't even know where he's coming from here. Maybe he's logged in every day since he started playing even when he had to take unreasonable actions to allow him to do so, and feels like this is something to take pride in. I can sort of understand how that could result is such dedication to something like this. I think it's really unhealthy though and it only strengthens my opinion that the system should be changed. I mean, we already have special bragging rights for limited events in the form of trophies and Stratos Emblems, plus every once in a while special cosmetics. I got the Rakta Syandana, but I missed the Rakta armor. I'll never be able to get it now most likely. That's fine though because those aren't special weapons that give you a mechanical advantage, and they actually took effort to acquire beyond just being in the right place at the right time. That's what LSG doesn't seem willing to acknowledge. The only effort involved was in building your real life schedule around logging into the game every day, which isn't reasonable or a healthy thing, and shouldn't be encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickThejaguar Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The main problem with this post is that you kinda contradict yourself. On 11/3/2017 at 4:18 PM, (Xbox One)DeluxeKnight831 said: The current log in reward system is okay. It rewards loyal players who stick to the game and are in some cases a sort of identifiable trophy for hardcore players who also log into the game frequently. You don't even have to do any work, just log in when it's reset time and it counts. If you're going to just login and then immediately log out solely to get a reward, you're not being loyal to the game. Contributing time and effort into the game by playing it is loyality. Hopping in for a second to click a couple buttons and then immediately logging off isn't. Loyalty is shown by hours played. A person could literally play nonstop during the weekends but be too busy play during the week and you're saying that they aren't as loyal as some guy who logs on for a split second and then hops off to go play COD? This rewards consistency, not loyalty. And these changes aren't taking anything from you, nor are they giving anything to someone without having to put in the same amount of "effort". Getting all of the currently available rewards would still require a total of 700 days logged in. It just makes it so that you don't have to progress towards getting things you don't want in order to get the things you do want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WetPollito Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 It becames from Login rewards to Login items reward rɪˈwɔːd/ noun plural noun: rewards 1. a thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_system Supplementary reading lol Now you should start questioning the validity of your time spent in Warframe, is it for fun? your fun? or the concept of fun which was slowly implanted into you by WF so that you can keep telling yourself that you have fun? or for rewards? you need rewards because the game said so? is your free will an I/O switch? how much of your free will remains unaffected by skinner box in Warframe? Edited November 30, 2017 by Volinus7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornyan Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, (PS4)AleDiorio said: It becames from Login rewards to Login items reward rɪˈwɔːd/ noun plural noun: rewards 1. a thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement. Implying that logging in or off is effort/an achievement/a service?? or you know, the login system just punishes us with lives in the outside world that don’t sit in basements all day ever day to just play games, because we have jobs to pay bills, families and friends to spend time with and games aren’t a possibility/priority? if I was back in my teens, when work didn’t matter, when I had little to no responsibilities, then logging in daily would be a breeze? These days when my hair is a bit more sparse, my hours at work longer, and my family more demanding? Not so much easy as even a remote possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AoN-CanoLathra- Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I think the real problem here is the clash between those who are sentimental and those who are mercenary. The only thing the mercenary mindset sees these weapons as is MR and possible a niche build item that might enhance their grind ability. The sentimental mindset sees these weapons as a badge of honor, a participation trophy, and a reminder of what they have done to get here, and all of their experiences leading up to it. That's why the mercenary people say stuff like 'logging in for 5 seconds isn't worth rewarding', because that is what they see as the fastest/easiest way to get the items, and is the only reason they currently log in every day. They just want the MR, so anything that gives it to them faster is good for them. These people are focused on the destination, and see the journey as a means to that end. This is the group I am a part of. Then you have the sentimental people, who don't care about the mastery rank, and just care about the time put into getting the items, the fun that these items give, and the experiences they have along the way. They see the new system as devaluing not only the time they have put in, but also the experiences they have had. These people are focused on the journey, and see the destination as a reason to have the journey. The destination really doesn't matter, as long as they can look back and say they did it. So, how can we fix this? I'm not sure. It could have been prevented by having all login rewards be purely cosmetic, I.E. you log in for 500 days, you get a unique skin for the Braton, or Skana, or something similar, rather than a unique item with unique mechanics and MR. But now that these items exist, DE can't just retro-actively fix everything with cosmetics. One thing I have noticed is that the debate seems to be entirely about weapons. No one complains that people could start getting the Primed Mods faster, and I think that is for two reasons; one, they have no unique or quirky mechanics or appearance to endear them to the sentimental types, and two, they cannot be seen in your loadout or on your profile, so they aren't seen as a badge of honor. It would be like being rewarded for some public service with a limited edition thong: sure, you know you have it, but you can't really show it off to everyone else without coming off as an @$$hole (or a pervert, but that is beside the point). There really is no way to untangle this mess without stepping on the toes of one side or the other (or both), which leaves DE with a tough question: which side do they anger, the mercenaries or the sentimentals? Only DE can answer that question. Addendum: As I finished up the end of this post, I realized that there is a small minority of people who fall into a third category, which mixes the worst aspects of both: The Elitist A-Holes who care about both the MR and the Badge of Honor, and don't want anyone else to get it without becoming just as Elite as they are. As they are a small group, and an annoying one at that, I really don't see any reason for DE to even consider them in their attempts to fix this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirshy Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) Man, where's my retroactive login rewards for all those days I logged in before this system was even added? They added it while I was in the middle of a long hiatus, and I didn't get any compensation. Then I went on hiatus again without even knowing there were weapons and mods in the table. Now I just simply don't care because without the rework it's just something that'll happen when it happens. Which really sucks, because the Zenith and the new weapon both have awesome mechanics literally no other weapon has, and the melee and pistol both have a mechanic only really emulated by a Napalm Ogris.And don't get me started on Primed Fury @ 200 days. I only JUST hit it, and it's what allowed me to finally sell my Maiming Strike because I no longer needed it to force Zerker stacks to make weapons like the Jatt Kitag usable- I could just slap on Primed Fury on and be done with it. Primed Vigor? Actually competitive with Redir / Vitality for a single slot defensive mod. Primed Shred? Rather legit for the one weapon I nearly always run Shred on (Dex Pixia). So @OP: Screw you, this change is desperately needed. I've been playing since before your platform even existed, and this change means I actually get to be excited about the login rewards system- because whatever awesome new thing they added won't be years away with a gap that only gets bigger as time goes on. Edited November 30, 2017 by TheBlueJelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_T_Shoot Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said: I think the real problem here is the clash between those who are sentimental and those who are mercenary. The only thing the mercenary mindset sees these weapons as is MR and possible a niche build item that might enhance their grind ability. The sentimental mindset sees these weapons as a badge of honor, a participation trophy, and a reminder of what they have done to get here, and all of their experiences leading up to it. That's why the mercenary people say stuff like 'logging in for 5 seconds isn't worth rewarding', because that is what they see as the fastest/easiest way to get the items, and is the only reason they currently log in every day. They just want the MR, so anything that gives it to them faster is good for them. These people are focused on the destination, and see the journey as a means to that end. This is the group I am a part of. Then you have the sentimental people, who don't care about the mastery rank, and just care about the time put into getting the items, the fun that these items give, and the experiences they have along the way. They see the new system as devaluing not only the time they have put in, but also the experiences they have had. These people are focused on the journey, and see the destination as a reason to have the journey. The destination really doesn't matter, as long as they can look back and say they did it. So, how can we fix this? I'm not sure. It could have been prevented by having all login rewards be purely cosmetic, I.E. you log in for 500 days, you get a unique skin for the Braton, or Skana, or something similar, rather than a unique item with unique mechanics and MR. But now that these items exist, DE can't just retro-actively fix everything with cosmetics. One thing I have noticed is that the debate seems to be entirely about weapons. No one complains that people could start getting the Primed Mods faster, and I think that is for two reasons; one, they have no unique or quirky mechanics or appearance to endear them to the sentimental types, and two, they cannot be seen in your loadout or on your profile, so they aren't seen as a badge of honor. It would be like being rewarded for some public service with a limited edition thong: sure, you know you have it, but you can't really show it off to everyone else without coming off as an @$$hole (or a pervert, but that is beside the point). There really is no way to untangle this mess without stepping on the toes of one side or the other (or both), which leaves DE with a tough question: which side do they anger, the mercenaries or the sentimentals? Only DE can answer that question. Addendum: As I finished up the end of this post, I realized that there is a small minority of people who fall into a third category, which mixes the worst aspects of both: The Elitist A-Holes who care about both the MR and the Badge of Honor, and don't want anyone else to get it without becoming just as Elite as they are. As they are a small group, and an annoying one at that, I really don't see any reason for DE to even consider them in their attempts to fix this mess. +1 for insightful post I guess I'm in the mercenary group because I don't care if people can get a Zenistar after 50 days. If they are a new player and like it enough to stick around for 50 days then getting a little reward for that is a good thing for everyone I think. I'm a handful of days past 600 log-ins and have been playing since nearly the beginning of the game. To me, it does not impact me in any negative way if they improve the log-in rewards in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilmera Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) those coming changes will not be a loyalty program anymore. miserable 50 logins it's not a loyalty at all, therefore the rewards will no longer be indicative. they're gonna devalue this system itself Edited November 30, 2017 by Vilmera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eirshy Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vilmera said: those coming changes will not be a loyalty program anymore. miserable 50 logins it's not a loyalty at all, therefore the rewards will no longer be indicative. they're gonna devalue this system itself Except it is a loyalty program, they just let you pick which loyalty reward you're getting every 50 days. You know, rather than locking all new players out for over two years for whatever the 750 reward ends up being. Edited December 1, 2017 by TheBlueJelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loswaith Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 @-AoN-CanoLathra- There is yet another group that doesn't really fit in the list, those that are closer to the sentiment (there for the journey) but realise the journey has excessive length along the way with unappealing rewards. So while it wont really affect us, it will be better for the game. A bonus of the new system is it will clearly show DE which rewards (that are on offer) players actually care about and maybe they can tailor it more to those options. People should keep in mind there are players around that would have well over 1000+ logins, the current log in system just doesn't go back that far (there were 700+ days before it). Before it we had a 7 day build up cycle, if you missed one it went back to day 1 (if I recall correctly, before that it was just something random). All in all I'd prefer if the login system offered only cosmetic things like the frame helms from alerts (built) or even premium cosmetics (even as high resource cost blueprints), while the weapons themselves get moved to MR or Rail rewards (so players need to actually play the game some to make use of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RistN Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Way I see all of this is: If DE wanted to reward players for their loyalty they wouldn't take number of daily logins but number of hours that someone spent playing this game from beginning. Now, what I think is really going on is that DE (not the only developers that do this)is trying to force a number of online players and daily login numbers to push their game to top of some charts(like Steam chart).This is very important for them and for this game but it doesn't have anything to do with rewarding players for their loyalty.There are a lot players that are just collecting login points without even playing one mission.They just log in and log out.This I would rather call "artificial loyalty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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