Quartakk Changes, Why?

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Zsword said:

6.32 is after factoring in the 4 rounds a 'pull', that's still 1.5~ 'trigger pulls' a second, and the new fire rate now doubles that to 3.0~.

I wouldn't consider the Hek having a pseudo trigger pull for each pellet. The Quartakk worked similarly.

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

They buffed it while also cutting the damage in half XD

[Cytobel]

The term for this seems to be "sidegrade".  The weapon is SUBSTANTIALLY better in several ways at the cost of damage.

Dunno, I'll usually go QoL over damage, so long as I can manage to make the weapon functional and lethal.  I feel as if this frees up a mod slot from a RoF mod, allowing a second element to be added in.

I'll give this thing some more serious testing and find out exactly what kind of shenanigans I can pull off.  I feel willing to trade a spot of damage for WORKING Status chance and RoF, to be sure.

[Airwolfen]

When testing this new variant BTW I suggest replacing the Fire rate mod you probably had before with damage. From using it a bit I found the current fire rate to be more then enough compared to the old version that felt way too slow.

[Rekkou]

I say, current Quartakk is more optimally balanced now. Yes, it has twice ammo consumption, but it has plenty of ammo to spare. Good ammo capacity becomes a wasted advantage if the ammo consumption is too low. Not to mention it can quickly strips armor in only few shots now

[DreamsmithJane]

I haven't put it to work, yet, but slightly more than half damage with slightly more than double the fire rate is a net increase in both DPS and new target acquisition (via lower refire time), and actual 27% base status chance per bullet with a relatively high effective fire rate makes it an outstanding status weapon. I'd say that's worth arguably worse ammo economy (I say arguably, because the improvement to sub-100% status builds will reduce the bullet cost per kill by some amount dependent on multiple variables).

[Fallen_Echo]

6 hours ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

People still seem to misunderstand the changes here, as I said before, the change from semi-auto to burst fire was a clunky workaround to address the status chance complaints people had, they still made the gun fire all the 4 bullets at the same time though and not in a burst, resulting in the gun feeling like it used to, I tried it out quickly and it still feels and sounds like the old Quartakk.
So ultimately it got a buff in status chance, fire rate and accuracy, at the cost of damage.

I dont know why it was soo important to "balance" up the slight changes with damage decrease.

Would the weapon be too powerful if they leave it as is?

[[DE]Momaw]

Just so people are aware, old Quartakk was 27% status chance on 4 projectiles, which means its real status chance (per each projectile) was about 7.57%.  It went from 7.57% per projectile to 27%,  i.e., Quartakk's status performance just got multiplied by 3.5 times.

The Quartakk was already near the top of the pile of semi-automatic weapons. Great accuracy, high damage with strong crit performance for headshotting, magazine capacity for days. It had personality, it had flavor, it was a high damage sniper-shotgun with mediocre status and great ammo economy. ...And then it got buffed to have free punch through.  And now buffed again to have vastly superior status performance while setting fire to the ammo economy. Just another weapon with both good crit and good status, like everything else seems to be slowly converging toward.  "Can't strip armor"?  It didn't need to, it could already easily kill level 100 enemies with its brutal headshots and slash procs. Can't we have any weapons that are only "decent" against heavily armored enemies, in a game where we have like twenty different ways of removing or ignoring armor?

Who asked for this?  Why is a weapon that is less than a month old, and already strong, and that already got a free buff very recently, getting even more?  I could name a dozen guns off the top of my head that should have been tweaked first, like the Latron family that the Quartakk already made completely and utterly obsolete before it got buffed.  Or what about the Burston Prime, which is a lotus-praise-it prime weapon that only has half the status and none of the crit of the Quartakk.

This was not a good or necessary change. It's rampant power creep and I am getting sick of players and content creators who demand balance changes via the simulacrum.  There is more to Warframe than your TTK against level 150 heavy gunners, and unnecessary optimizations that appeal to simulacrum tinkerers are destroying any sense of weapon uniqueness or challenge for the REST of the game.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Momaw

[Windy_Wind]

I'm not sure if you test the quartakk properly, but my quartakk can destroy heavy lv 150 at alarming rate right now while the old quartakk killed things like turtle, Of course, I use conventional build because hunter munition will get a big hit when damage 2.5 arrives.

[Arrichion]

1 hour ago, Windy_Wind said:

I'm not sure if you test the quartakk properly, but my quartakk can destroy heavy lv 150 at alarming rate right now while the old quartakk killed things like turtle, Of course, I use conventional build because hunter munition will get a big hit when damage 2.5 arrives.

We don't know what will happen with damage 2.5 since they've decided to throw what they were planning out the window and start over from scratch. Hunter munitions isn't going to change for a while.

[KotoKuraken]

It takes 16 shots for me to destroy a lvl 145 Corrupted Bombard with replacing out the firerate mod. It used to take only 8. Again, maybe it's a "sidegrade", but the status change doesn't change anything. Right now, Viral Slash still kills twice as fast as Corrosive, so the status change definitely was not needed. All it's served to do was make me have to pull on the trigger more than already had to.

And for the guys who say the semi to burst didn't change how it feels; trust me, it feels very different. It doesn't feel like all the projectiles are coming out at the same time. I loved the feel of having all four come out at the same time in one big boom, but now it just sounds like a really fast burston

[Soup2504]

Whether or not y'all want to admit it, this change was not a nerf overall nor a buff overall. Hunter munitions viral build on the quartakk is less effective than it used to be (but don't kid yourself, it's not useless now. It's still pretty damn strong), that is true, BUT, corrosive/heat status build got a SIGNIFICANT buff with these changes (from utterly useless to damn strong). Both of these are undeniable fact. It doesn't matter if the old build is still stronger than the new one, the new one still got a huge buff. This isn't as simple as looking at the damage nerf, ignoring literally everything else, and screaming "IT WAS NERFED!!!!!". There's a lot more to this than you think.

If/when hunter munitions gets nerfed, however (which is very likely to happen, whether you want to admit it or not), that'll be the final nail in the coffin for the HM/viral quartakk (which, I'll stress again, is FAR from useless or weak now. It's still really good!). And then corrosive/heat quartakk will become the new meta build for it. And corrosive/heat build is good. Seriously, it's really good. It can plow through 99% of the game's content with literally no issue, and even level 145 (or higher!) enemies can be taken out by it pretty damn well. 145 lancers/butchers will drop like flies, 145 bombards/gunners will take a bit more work, but it's still very doable and strong.

all that being said, though... I think it's about time shotgun status calculations got a rework. Let's be real here. And yeah, this quartakk change WAS kind of a band-aid fix. It did fix the main issue I had with the gun, sure, but I mean... could've done the same thing while making shotgun status chance per pellet instead of converting it to "burst" to fix the status...

Oh, beam weapons too. Though those need a whole mechanical overhaul, not just status/sec being reworked.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

On 19/01/2018 at 12:52 AM, Soup2504 said:

Whether or not y'all want to admit it, this change was not a nerf overall nor a buff overall. Hunter munitions viral build on the quartakk is less effective than it used to be (but don't kid yourself, it's not useless now. It's still pretty damn strong), that is true, BUT, corrosive/heat status build got a SIGNIFICANT buff with these changes (from utterly useless to damn strong). Both of these are undeniable fact. It doesn't matter if the old build is still stronger than the new one, the new one still got a huge buff. This isn't as simple as looking at the damage nerf, ignoring literally everything else, and screaming "IT WAS NERFED!!!!!". There's a lot more to this than you think.

If/when hunter munitions gets nerfed, however (which is very likely to happen, whether you want to admit it or not), that'll be the final nail in the coffin for the HM/viral quartakk (which, I'll stress again, is FAR from useless or weak now. It's still really good!). And then corrosive/heat quartakk will become the new meta build for it. And corrosive/heat build is good. Seriously, it's really good. It can plow through 99% of the game's content with literally no issue, and even level 145 (or higher!) enemies can be taken out by it pretty damn well. 145 lancers/butchers will drop like flies, 145 bombards/gunners will take a bit more work, but it's still very doable and strong.

all that being said, though... I think it's about time shotgun status calculations got a rework. Let's be real here. And yeah, this quartakk change WAS kind of a band-aid fix. It did fix the main issue I had with the gun, sure, but I mean... could've done the same thing while making shotgun status chance per pellet instead of converting it to "burst" to fix the status...

Oh, beam weapons too. Though those need a whole mechanical overhaul, not just status/sec being reworked.

The change to the Status was needed before, it was more of a fix than a change, the changes themselves were unnecessary though.

Everyone mentions status because of armor, yes, shooting more procs more status, but the gun already had lower than average ammo economy, but because each click was twice as powerful that wasn't much of an issue unless on endless solo. Status for armor is only important at high levels and a big issue here is that people showing the changes (the "content creators") do so in Simulacrum, where everything can do well because that place removes all gameplay factors, like ammo, still the gun was a beast against Corpus and Infested, now it's worse against those because it needs twice the ammo to do the same job and DPS is only the same in paper, in practice the chances are that the kill time against high level Corpus/Infested increased instead. At high levels you can kill a bombard marginally faster (but still takes about the same time as before) now because of status since that was fixed plus firing faster, but at high levels now you spend about twice as much ammo because the gun won't 1 shot kill nearly as much as it did before. Heavy targets still require you to hit them quite a few times which in turn that means that despite the gun firing faster technically allows it to perform better against high level armor, because the ammo economy is terrible the gun is now worse for high level missions that aren't fast ones like Capture and that require you to kill things.

 

The "content creators" also are spreading the propaganda that the accuracy buff allows you to headshot now, sadly that only shows that they didn't even use the gun for longer than the required time to make a video about it, because accuracy wasn't an issue before, the only instances it was an issue it was because of the player, not the gun, the gun was accurate, it didn't have spread issues. However what they don't mention because again they won't use the gun besides making a video and mostly in Simulacrum or a single mission, is that now that you fire faster the recoil is noticeable and that impacts your accuracy negatively while before it never did, and if you use fire rate mods now you will have to manage recoil if you don't 1 shot targets because if the first shot was high enough the second will most likely miss if you don't manage the recoil.

 

 

Overall the gun wasn't buffed, they fixed the only issue it had and then pretty much reworked the gun to be more generic (it's more like the Argonak and Latron series now with weaker but faster shots) rather than be in the niche of powerful med~long range 1 bangs. I just find it sad that they changed it because people couldn't handle a gun that didn't fit their playstyle, and sadly our "content creators" lately only put out rubbish videos and since at the time they had nothing to bash and create outrage, and the Corinth was the new hype, they pretty much took a dump on the gun because fitting the masses brings views, people followed and those that liked the gun and put effort on it got screwed needlessly when those crying already had 3 viable options (which they never use anyway, much like how people won't use the Quartakk as well despite that DE screwed those that liked the gun to please them instead).

 

I personally would've liked that they refunded the forma and lens I put on it, the gun longer is what I invested for.

Edited January 20, 2018 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[844448]

On 1/18/2018 at 8:32 AM, Soup2504 said:

please, test things yourself instead of reading "converted to burst" and assuming it fires like a burston or a hema. The gun fires NOTHING like a burst rifle. All 4 shots come out instantly. The reason it was converted to "burst" was simply to make it so status calculations work like a burst rifle, rather than shotgun status calculations (so basically, each pellet has the listed status chance on the stats screen, now), but with the conversion to burst, the gun did NOT turn into a regular old burst rifle. All 4 bullets come out instantly. The difference in how it fires now compared to when it wasn't a "burst rifle" is non-existent. It's the same.

I always use this gun to adaro focus farm and used to be able to kill bombards with a body shot, now the burst makes a very small time frame that lets the bombard get alerted and ruin the stealth. It was a 4 shot like semi-auto and now it's a burst of 4. The firing sound and recoil reveals this as the gun has slightly wilder recoil and 4 sounds of shots instead being 4 shots being a loud bag as before

[844448]

On 1/18/2018 at 7:03 PM, Windy_Wind said:

I'm not sure if you test the quartakk properly, but my quartakk can destroy heavy lv 150 at alarming rate right now while the old quartakk killed things like turtle, Of course, I use conventional build because hunter munition will get a big hit when damage 2.5 arrives.

Because they upped the fire rate. It was around 1.5 for 4 bullets in semi-auto, or 6 in burst, now it's 12, or 3 in semi auto

[Salenstormwing]

It seems pretty okay to me, and others...

and...

 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

6 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

The change to the Status was needed before, it was more of a fix than a change, the changes themselves were unnecessary though.

Everyone mentions status because of armor, yes, shooting more procs more status, but the gun already had lower than average ammo economy, but because each click was twice as powerful that wasn't much of an issue unless on endless solo. Status for armor is only important at high levels and a big issue here is that people showing the changes (the "content creators") do so in Simulacrum, where everything can do well because that place removes all gameplay factors, like ammo, still the gun was a beast against Corpus and Infested, now it's worse against those because it needs twice the ammo to do the same job and DPS is only the same in paper, in practice the chances are the kill time against high level Corpus/Infested increased instead. At high levels you can kill a bombard marginally faster (but still takes about the same time as before) now because of status since that was fixed plus firing faster, but at high levels now you spend about twice as much ammo because the gun won't 1 shot kill nearly as much as it did before. Heavy targets still require you to hit them quite a few times which in turn that means that despite the gun firing faster technically allows it to perform better against high level armor, because the ammo economy is terrible the gun is now worse for high level missions that aren't fast ones like Capture and that require you to kill things.

 

The "content creators" also are spreading the propaganda that the accuracy buff allows you to headshot now, sadly that only shows that they didn't even use the gun for longer than the required time to make a video about it, because accuracy wasn't an issue before, the only instances it was an issue it was because of the player, not the gun, the gun was accurate, it didn't have spread issues. However what they don't mention because again they won't use the gun besides making a video and mostly in Simulacrum or a single mission, is that now that you fire faster the recoil is noticeable and that impacts your accuracy negatively while before it never did, and if you use fire rate mods now you will have to manage recoil if you don't 1 shot targets because if the first shot was high enough the second will most likely miss if you don't manage the recoil.

 

 

Overall the gun wasn't buffed, they fixed the only issue it had and then pretty much reworked the gun to be more generic (it's more like the Argonak and Latron series now with weaker but faster shots) rather than be in the niche of powerful med~long range 1 bangs. I just find it sad that they changed it because people couldn't handle a gun that didn't fit their playstyle, and sadly our "content creators" lately only put out rubbish videos and since at the time they had nothing to bash and create outrage and the Corinth was the new hype they pretty much took a dump on the gun because fitting the masses brings views, people followed and those that liked the gun and put effort on it got screwed needlessly when those crying already had 3 viable options (which they never use anyway, much like how people won't use the Quartakk as well despite that DE screwed those that liked the gun to please them instead).

 

I personally would've liked that they refunded the forma and lens I put on it, the gun longer is what I invested for.

This, all this, thank you Cat Girl.

[Fallen_Echo]

This update only achieved one thing, now the status works but sadly the weapon now also got less damage meaning even less ammo efficiency.

What you could do previously in 2 shot now you need 4.

I say this is makes the weapon even less useable.

[OvisCaedo]

14 hours ago, 844448 said:

I always use this gun to adaro focus farm and used to be able to kill bombards with a body shot, now the burst makes a very small time frame that lets the bombard get alerted and ruin the stealth. It was a 4 shot like semi-auto and now it's a burst of 4. The firing sound and recoil reveals this as the gun has slightly wilder recoil and 4 sounds of shots instead being 4 shots being a loud bag as before

While this is ruined for you either way, it's actually NOT the firing change that is ruining your stealth kills, it's the lower damage per pellet. Even when the damage is completely simultaneous hitscan projectiles, enemies count as alerted if it takes more than one pellet to kill them. It's been observable for a long time with silenced shotguns, though the Tigris probably has so much damage per pellet that it could stealth kill anyhow.

stealth mechanics are just unfortunately terribly implemented.

and also for what it's worth, if you want to focus farm through stealth kills, you're probably better off figuring out a melee setup to do it with anyhow, as melee stealth kills get twice as much affinity as ranged stealth kills. for no good reason.

Edited January 20, 2018 by OvisCaedo

[Buttaface]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 1:21 PM, KotoKuraken said:

It takes 16 shots for me to destroy a lvl 145 Corrupted Bombard with replacing out the firerate mod. It used to take only 8.

Truth from someone who actually tested and videod the weapon before the nerf instead of talking out of their &#!. Lots of LARPING, WKing and tobefairbois in this thread... as usual with gaming forums and this one especially.

[DreamsmithJane]

16 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Truth from someone who actually tested and videod the weapon before the nerf instead of talking out of their &#!. Lots of LARPING, WKing and tobefairbois in this thread... as usual with gaming forums and this one especially.

No, it isn't truth. I'm looking at closer to 6-7 shots per kill on level 150 Corrupted Bombards (allowing for variance; by the numbers, it should average 5.7 shots), using a Hunter Munitions build, with 15-20% less time shooting and reloading, and up to 11% lower time-to-kill while using about 50% more ammo. Someone else in this thread claimed to do it in 5 shots, though that must've been luck. Old Quartakk would have taken 4-5 shots with the same or similar build, and done it slower. This was a buff. Whatever OP's build is, it definitely shouldn't be taking that many shots.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

No, it isn't truth. I'm looking at closer to 6-7 shots per kill on level 150 Corrupted Bombards (allowing for variance; by the numbers, it should average 5.7 shots), using a Hunter Munitions build, with 15-20% less time shooting and reloading, and up to 11% lower time-to-kill while using about 50% more ammo. Someone else in this thread claimed to do it in 5 shots, though that must've been luck. Old Quartakk would have taken 4-5 shots with the same or similar build, and done it slower. This was a buff. Whatever OP's build is, it definitely shouldn't be taking that many shots.

Im using a viral high status, hunter munitions build and the weapon seems to be significantly weaker.

I base almost all my tests agains starchart level enemies after they fail the high level ones. Basic rules, only bodyshots frim as close as i can get. This weapon fails to bring down a corrupted lancer at lv35 if it doesnt proc slash, what is unacceptable especially since it was able to do it before the nerf.

[DreamsmithJane]

17 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im using a viral high status, hunter munitions build and the weapon seems to be significantly weaker.

I base almost all my tests agains starchart level enemies after they fail the high level ones. Basic rules, only bodyshots frim as close as i can get. This weapon fails to bring down a corrupted lancer at lv35 if it doesnt proc slash, what is unacceptable especially since it was able to do it before the nerf.

That makes no sense. Why would you ever use an "only bodyshots" rule on a crit weapon? A huge part of crit weapons' advantage is the ability to increase headshot multipliers. And it wasn't a nerf. "Individual shots got weaker, therefore the weapon is nerfed" is not sound logic.

[844448]

21 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

No, it isn't truth. I'm looking at closer to 6-7 shots per kill on level 150 Corrupted Bombards (allowing for variance; by the numbers, it should average 5.7 shots), using a Hunter Munitions build, with 15-20% less time shooting and reloading, and up to 11% lower time-to-kill while using about 50% more ammo. Someone else in this thread claimed to do it in 5 shots, though that must've been luck. Old Quartakk would have taken 4-5 shots with the same or similar build, and done it slower. This was a buff. Whatever OP's build is, it definitely shouldn't be taking that many shots.

While burst mode may increase the status chance, damage reduction makes this change less useful since i can kill level 135 bombard in less than 4  shots, now you need 5 to 6 after damage reduction. The difference in weapon handling also noticeable, the gun moves wilder from the burst compared to one upward kick from semi-auto

[DreamsmithJane]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

While burst mode may increase the status chance, damage reduction makes this change less useful since i can kill level 135 bombard in less than 4  shots, now you need 5 to 6 after damage reduction.

Sure, but 6 shots with the new Quartakk take less than 3/4 of the time of 4 shots with the old one. I estimated ammo usage has gone up by about 50%, and DPS by about 15-25% (on Hunter Munitions + viral builds). This might be a problem if Quartakk didn't already have excellent ammo efficiency, decent magazine capacity, and a very fast reload. But it did, so it can take the hit, and the result is a DPS buff and greater build versatility.