*SPOILERS* So DE, about that 'prologue'...

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

I expect this is why most people presume some sort of mental manipulation.

Of course, Lotus could just have gone with him to see what's going on.  Or because she knew she didn't have the resources to fight him then and there.

That I can agree with.

[Azamagon]

Just gonna chime in with a bunch of random theories in regards to Orokin death, and Natah/Margullis:

Orokin death:
When an "Orokin" is killed, I think they actually ARE physically killed. I think (or well, we kinda know this, due to the info is basicly given to us via the Grineer Queens and stuff, if all of what is said is true) is that the key to their eternal existance is Kuva, which somehow allows you to become resurrected even after your body has been destroyed (then using the "body snatching" Transference-stuff to get a new body to "possess", which somehow can be done even if you now are just "kuva life essence" (or w/e you wanna call it)). This also means, when Executor Avantus was killed... she was simply killed. The PROBLEM, for her, due to the chaos that was ensuing in the system means; No one is there to do the Kuva resurrection process for her, which means she is likely still dead (if still resurrectable, who knows, maybe there is a time limit to the procedure?).
I think this is also how the Tenno killed the Orokin more than just temporary -> By coordinating and killing basicly ALL of them (or at least the vast majority of those who know how to do the resurrection procedure) at ONCE, because then there is no one around to keep resurrecting them!

Just some ideas *shrugs*

Lotus/Natah/Margullis:
We could ofc just speculate who she truly is, but here is a new theory:
What if Ballas erased the mind of Natah, the sentient (or more likely, extracted its mind and/or altered it sort of like a program, Cephalon-style)? At the same time-period or so, let Margullis drink Kuva (or whatever is needed) to allow her to access the Kuva resurrection thinga-majig procedure after she was executed. With that, he could then secretly transfer Margullis into Natah's remaining physical body (or w/e body has actually been used for the transfer). That, while also alterring her mind so she thinks she now is Lotus, the ex-Natah sentient defector, which could be done via the machine she is connected to (which would then be the previously mentioned Natah's new reprogrammed mind, a.k.a. the Lotus).
Thus, by disconnecting her from the machine, she is also disconnected from the "Lotus-program" (Natah's reprogrammed mind), so she goes back into being Margullis.

That would explain why both Lotus herself and Hunhow thinks she is/was Natah, even though she would actually just be Margullis mind in Natah's body, acting as (or rather, be programmed as) ex-Natah/Lotus. This would also explain the rather sudden/weird/unlikely "change of heart" for a Sentient to betray its own kin to instead take care of their enemy, the Tenno (which could also be further strengthened by Margullis' mind being in the background/subconscience of the program, but definitely not necessarily so, just a sidethought *shrugs*). Because she was just programmed to be the Tenno caretaker, the Lotus.

Again... just a bunch of random ideas *shrugs*

Edited January 25, 2018 by Azamagon

[Noble_One]

21 hours ago, NZ_CodeBlue said:

How do you know we're killing him? So far he hasn't done anything to us (yet).

uuhhh he literally took lotus with what looks like mind tricks. i dont know about brother/sister but I WANT OUR SPACE MUM BACK!!

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Mission musings: 

Mission type similar to Suda where you follow an orb with light trail. Cephalon being involved here(?)

Suda being an archimediean as well who went through the process of being integrated into a cephalon construct of memory & data. Free will too as shown by Ordis 

Ballas’ form is humanoid but vastly different than Tennos implying another race or a higher form like the Unum. He displays space magic in  the form of telekinesis 

Space mom abandonment issues similar to Natah quest where Lotus decides to leave us in her own terms, not to simply leave but to accomplish something (?) 

 

[Xaero]

21 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Oh he does, he flat out says he knows she's not Margulis before he extends that creepy, long af arm of his. 

According to the same detron crewman lore, Ballas was symmetrical. I wonder how he got this arm. Or, in case it's a new body, where he got it.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Ksaero

[Rayiss]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

So, just a thought here: Stalker is Hunhow's errand boy, right? And I don't remember completely correct because it's been a long time, but Hunhow still cares about his daughter, right? Temporary alliance with Shadow to put down Ballas permanently and get space mom back. Plus with the umbra hints and Shadow being the base frame of excal umbra this could be a thing.

It's an interesting theory you got here which would be nice if that is true

But sadly I don't think this can possibly happen...because the stalker is an old Orokin guardian (I don't say he was an Orokin) who hates the tenno more than anything in this world  for slaying the Orokin (I think I have read somewhere that the stalker completely lost his mind during the time) 

And hunhow don't really cares about his daughter (as far as I know) he abandoned his former daughter because she isn't really his daughter anymore (because natah became the lotus n stuff)

[Rayiss]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Mission type similar to Suda where you follow an orb with light trail. Cephalon being involved here(?)

Suda being an archimediean as well who went through the process of being integrated into a cephalon construct of memory & data. Free will too as shown by Ordis 

This is really interesting because it's much likely that a "new" cephalon will be involved in there i opened a thread last week for discussing the possibility that cephalon samodeus could be involved in the new quest based on a little hint from megan at the last Prime Time Video

I will link this thread after I get home :D

 

[Knight_Ex]

18 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Just gonna chime in with a bunch of random theories in regards to Orokin death, and Natah/Margullis:

Orokin death:
When an "Orokin" is killed, I think they actually ARE physically killed. I think (or well, we kinda know this, due to the info is basicly given to us via the Grineer Queens and stuff, if all of what is said is true) is that the key to their eternal existance is Kuva, which somehow allows you to become resurrected even after your body has been destroyed (then using the "body snatching" Transference-stuff to get a new body to "possess", which somehow can be done even if you now are just "kuva life essence" (or w/e you wanna call it)). This also means, when Executor Avantus was killed... he was simply killed. The PROBLEM, for him, due to the chaos that was ensuing in the system means; No one is there to do the Kuva resurrection process for him, which means he is likely still dead (if still resurrectable, who knows, maybe there is a time limit to the procedure?).
I think this is also how the Tenno killed the Orokin more than just temporary -> By coordinating and killing basicly ALL of them (or at least the vast majority of those who know how to do the resurrection procedure) at ONCE, because then there is no one around to keep resurrecting them!

Just some ideas *shrugs*

Lotus/Natah/Margullis:
We could ofc just speculate who she truly is, but here is a new theory:
What if Ballas erased the mind of Natah, the sentient (or more likely, extracted its mind and/or altered it sort of like a program, Cephalon-style)? At the same time-period or so, let Margullis drink Kuva (or whatever is needed) to allow her to access the Kuva resurrection thinga-majig procedure after she was executed. With that, he could then secretly transfer Margullis into Natah's remaining physical body (or w/e body has actually been used for the transfer). That, while also alterring her mind so she thinks she now is Lotus, the ex-Natah sentient defector, which could be done via the machine she is connected to (which would then be the previously mentioned Natah's new reprogrammed mind, a.k.a. the Lotus).
Thus, by disconnecting her from the machine, she is also disconnected from the "Lotus-program" (Natah's reprogrammed mind), so she goes back into being Margullis.

That would explain why both Lotus herself and Hunhow thinks she is/was Natah, even though she would actually just be Margullis mind in Natah's body, acting as (or rather, be programmed as) ex-Natah/Lotus. This would also explain the rather sudden/weird/unlikely "change of heart" for a Sentient to betray its own kin to instead take care of their enemy, the Tenno (which could also be further strengthened by Margullis' mind being in the background/subconscience of the program, but definitely not necessarily so, just a sidethought *shrugs*). Because she was just programmed to be the Tenno caretaker, the Lotus.

Again... just a bunch of random ideas *shrugs*

Just one small correction, Executor Avantus was a she, not a he.

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

Just one small correction, Executor Avantus was a she, not a he.

Thanks, I'll edit that.

Also, I there was one thing I forgot to mention in the first segment (and which is why I put Orokin within the quotation marks);
I don't think being an "Orokin" means that you are a different kind of being. I think it just meant they were "high-status priviliged" people, who were (chosen, likely through whatever wealth or power they had etc, which granted them high "status") to be fortunate enough to drink Kuva and become eliglble for the resurrection process. Nothing more. That whole "symmetry" stuff is probably just them being able to pick who they wanted to look like through the whole Yuvan theatre stuff, along with how they styled their clothing and hair etc (maybe?).

[Knight_Ex]

5 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Thanks, I'll edit that.

Also, I there was one thing I forgot to mention in the first segment (and which is why I put Orokin within the quotation marks);
I don't think being an "Orokin" means that you are a different kind of being. I think it just meant they were "high-status priviliged" people, who were (chosen, likely through whatever wealth or power they had etc, which granted them high "status") to be fortunate enough to drink Kuva and become eliglble for the resurrection process. Nothing more. That whole "symmetry" stuff is probably just them being able to pick who they wanted to look like through the whole Yuvan theatre stuff, along with how they styled their clothing and hair etc (maybe?).

I mean clearly anyone can become an Orokin, they were offering it to Ordan Karris, and he was sure not of any Orokin origin, so maybe its something that can be branded on anyone regardless of background?   " Further angered by the Orokin's offer of becoming an Orokin himself blessed with eternal life, Ordan initiated a suicidal berserker state and successfully killed all of the Orokin nearest him. "

Edited January 25, 2018 by Knight_Ex

[Azamagon]

1 minute ago, Knight_Ex said:

I mean clearly anyone can become an Orokin, they were offering it to Ordan Karris, and he was sure not of any Orokin origin, so maybe its something that can be branded on anyone regardless of background?   " Further angered by the Orokin's offer of becoming an Orokin himself blessed with eternal life, Ordan initiated a suicidal berserker state and successfully killed all of the Orokin nearest him. "

That's what I mean, being an Orokin just means being a so-called "upper class citizen", being allowed to be resurrected through Kuva and such. It's not like the Tenno, who could actually be considered a new type of humans (Humans with Void powers, basicly).

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 1/24/2018 at 2:05 PM, Azamagon said:

Just gonna chime in with a bunch of random theories in regards to Orokin death, and Natah/Margullis:

Orokin death:
When an "Orokin" is killed, I think they actually ARE physically killed. I think (or well, we kinda know this, due to the info is basicly given to us via the Grineer Queens and stuff, if all of what is said is true) is that the key to their eternal existance is Kuva, which somehow allows you to become resurrected even after your body has been destroyed (then using the "body snatching" Transference-stuff to get a new body to "possess", which somehow can be done even if you now are just "kuva life essence" (or w/e you wanna call it)). This also means, when Executor Avantus was killed... she was simply killed. The PROBLEM, for her, due to the chaos that was ensuing in the system means; No one is there to do the Kuva resurrection process for her, which means she is likely still dead (if still resurrectable, who knows, maybe there is a time limit to the procedure?).
I think this is also how the Tenno killed the Orokin more than just temporary -> By coordinating and killing basicly ALL of them (or at least the vast majority of those who know how to do the resurrection procedure) at ONCE, because then there is no one around to keep resurrecting them!

Just some ideas *shrugs*

Lotus/Natah/Margullis:
We could ofc just speculate who she truly is, but here is a new theory:
What if Ballas erased the mind of Natah, the sentient (or more likely, extracted its mind and/or altered it sort of like a program, Cephalon-style)? At the same time-period or so, let Margullis drink Kuva (or whatever is needed) to allow her to access the Kuva resurrection thinga-majig procedure after she was executed. With that, he could then secretly transfer Margullis into Natah's remaining physical body (or w/e body has actually been used for the transfer). That, while also alterring her mind so she thinks she now is Lotus, the ex-Natah sentient defector, which could be done via the machine she is connected to (which would then be the previously mentioned Natah's new reprogrammed mind, a.k.a. the Lotus).
Thus, by disconnecting her from the machine, she is also disconnected from the "Lotus-program" (Natah's reprogrammed mind), so she goes back into being Margullis.

That would explain why both Lotus herself and Hunhow thinks she is/was Natah, even though she would actually just be Margullis mind in Natah's body, acting as (or rather, be programmed as) ex-Natah/Lotus. This would also explain the rather sudden/weird/unlikely "change of heart" for a Sentient to betray its own kin to instead take care of their enemy, the Tenno (which could also be further strengthened by Margullis' mind being in the background/subconscience of the program, but definitely not necessarily so, just a sidethought *shrugs*). Because she was just programmed to be the Tenno caretaker, the Lotus.

Again... just a bunch of random ideas *shrugs*

My thoughts, A) Ballas was not assasinated by the tenno B) his comments say Margulis/Nattah are both imprisioned, the helmet taken to the ship also suggests a free and “pure” Nattah.. whatever that truly is, is in the landing craft. C) You don’t see her face, since she was blinded.. hmmm. D) Dat hand.. for some reason reminds me of the teralyst arm.

[(XBOX)TJC569]

On 1/24/2018 at 2:02 PM, Jarriaga said:

I don't think the machine itself did the job. Otherwise you are looking at a big plothole considering she was right in front of you in The Second Dream.

Question...was Lotus actually there? I mean maybe our warframe put us in the pod and she was just a projection? I mean the Operators were pretty messed up / panicked / scared for life at that point. Also wouldn't that mean she wasnt connected to her chords.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)TJC569 said:

Question...was Lotus actually there? I mean maybe our warframe put us in the pod and she was just a projection? I mean the Operators were pretty messed up / panicked / scared for life at that point. Also wouldn't that mean she wasnt connected to her chords.

I distinctly remember my Warframe, on its knees with a sword in its chest, while mom was carrying me to my chair.

[CriticalFumble]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

I distinctly remember my Warframe, on its knees with a sword in its chest, while mom was carrying me to my chair.

Yeah, with the cords to her helmet dangling free.  Obvious implication being that she's free to move about as she wishes, but uses the chair/pod/lotus blossom stand-in to do her job more effectively.  

In any case the fact that Natah was sent as a spy, succesfully infiltrated the empire, and became a prominent figure in the most important fighting force the system ever had makes it a little hard to swallow that it would have all come crashing down had her hat been removed.  

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

1 hour ago, CriticalFumble said:

Yeah, with the cords to her helmet dangling free.  Obvious implication being that she's free to move about as she wishes, but uses the chair/pod/lotus blossom stand-in to do her job more effectively.  

In any case the fact that Natah was sent as a spy, succesfully infiltrated the empire, and became a prominent figure in the most important fighting force the system ever had makes it a little hard to swallow that it would have all come crashing down had her hat been removed.  

I don't understand though, when I'm doing a capture and Shadow Lotus (heard a friend call her that, it fits) say something like "bring them to me" uhh what? You ain't there! Ordis needs to fix Lotus.exe 

[CriticalFumble]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

I don't understand though, when I'm doing a capture and Shadow Lotus (heard a friend call her that, it fits) say something like "bring them to me" uhh what? You ain't there! Ordis needs to fix Lotus.exe 

You know that's what's really disappointed me with this.  The moments before seeing that "shadow Lotus" gave me time to imagine Odis popping up, wearing the lotus hat, and doing general Ordis things. 

"Operator, there's the capture target!  RIP HIS LEGS OFF SO HE CAN'T RRRRRRR-UN"

"The defense target is here!  BATHE IT IN THE BLOOD OFFFF- ah, until we can reinforce you."

"WHO'S IN CONTROL NOW, SUCKEEEEE- erm, life support pod now available."

"Security forces inbound it's WALKING CORPSES!"

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

43 minutes ago, CriticalFumble said:

You know that's what's really disappointed me with this.  The moments before seeing that "shadow Lotus" gave me time to imagine Odis popping up, wearing the lotus hat, and doing general Ordis things. 

"Operator, there's the capture target!  RIP HIS LEGS OFF SO HE CAN'T RRRRRRR-UN"

"The defense target is here!  BATHE IT IN THE BLOOD OFFFF- ah, until we can reinforce you."

"WHO'S IN CONTROL NOW, SUCKEEEEE- erm, life support pod now available."

"Security forces inbound it's WALKING CORPSES!"

I feel like it would have made a lot more sense lore-wise for us to have gone to uncle Teshin and had him take over mission control in Lotus' absence, than for Ordis to just create a virtual Lotus.

[(PSN)teacup775]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

I feel like it would have made a lot more sense lore-wise for us to have gone to uncle Teshin and had him take over mission control in Lotus' absence, than for Ordis to just create a virtual Lotus.

Yah, but that would require a whole new set of voice recordings. This way, run an effect on existing video assets, and throw in a static effect on existing voice track. It’s a cheap way of keeping content after the plot point.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

7 hours ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Yah, but that would require a whole new set of voice recordings. This way, run an effect on existing video assets, and throw in a static effect on existing voice track. It’s a cheap way of keeping content after the plot point.

Yeah I understand why that's what DE did, but it's still a lazy move. 

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:15 AM, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

Yeah I understand why that's what DE did, but it's still a lazy move. 

It’s also time consuming, an expense and a transient situation. Things may be different after whatever quest line does.

[rune_me]

I don't want spacemom back. My operator is a teenager. Parents being away is the best thing ever. I've just been partying, not cleaning anything and smoking weed in my spaceship ever since she left. Its awesome.

Besides, she obviously wasn't kidnapped. She went with him of her own free will. She's a woman who has been all alone for a long time. She has needs. Handsome man shows up, says "how you doing?", of course she'll go with him. He's our spacedad now.

Edited January 31, 2018 by rune_me

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

16 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Besides, she obviously wasn't kidnapped.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)A Frikn Grizzly said:

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!

Pretty sure they're just off making more space babies together. Good for her.

[Unus]

According to what we were told during the Veil's "spirit journey", Natah's form and behavior aren't actually of her own choices. For certain it was her decision to take a humanoid form for the mission and for certain she had a feeling of loss when she was "barrened" by the journey, but, according to the medium, ""WE"" were the ones who filled her mind with Marghulian thoughts and sculpted her into our "all-mother", just by being close by. ""We"" fed on her maternal needs and turned her into a model of what "we" lost, creating the Lotus.

 

So many assume it was a mind-trick on the old Executor's side of things that drew her away to his side, I think Natah might be wakeing from a dream of her own to find that she's able to think her own unfiltered thoughts for the very first time. . . and she might not like what she's thinking.