Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, Zahnny said:

Gotta be honest, this sounds like less of an argument and trying to explain something we already knew in more depth to try and make the argument sound better. It really doesn't work and instead shows that you can only rely on one argument so you gotta make it better.

It explains that 50% reduction in the number we see is actually an 87.5% reduction in the functional application.

Just because you can make that logical leap doesn't mean everyone can, so the distinctly greater magnitude of that particular aspect could be missed.

[Kedrigern7]

Now there is lot of good changes that i can understand, but one of the VERY wierd ones is EMBER change, i understand that it looks like shes "mobile Resonating Quake" but the problem is that the way you are adressing it is not great. Rather than making the WoF energy cost go OFF THE ROOF it would be better to lower her range if that is the problem(even if id say it isnt). The "Use and Forget" is quite needed on higher lvls, let me explain why.

If you are doing something thats high level (60+) you generally dont want to be "next to them" and unfortunatelly this change will do that, as to survive on higher levels you NEED the augment for WoF in order to make sure they dont shoot you as you are pretty much a glass cannon that most of the time deals low dmg if they have armor(grineer) or have HP links(ancients) and im not even going to mention corpus with their "kek no ability for you" powers. 

Doubling her FLAT fire damage will do nothing AND giving her Hysteria treatment will mean that shes going to be EXTRA energy hungry. 

Also making the range to be a HALF of the current one is too much + rather than making it procedurally shrink, just make the range be FLAT smaller. The shrinking can be quite problematic  in the sense that the enemy that you knocked down 3 seconds ago will get up and you will quite possibly DIE as your WoF no longer reach him. There are many situations that make it so you cant be very mobile and this thing will just mean DEATH SENTENCE.

Now this could be easily treatable. The "0 to 100%" thing NEEDS to be gone. She, as someone who DEPENDS on her abilities, shouldnt be limited by this. Rather make the current range of World on Fire 25%-30% smaller. Then, the double damage mechanic could be used in the way, that enemies who are within, lets say 6-7 meters get double of the damage done to them. 

Hopefully you will rethink the Ember changes as these would just straight up nerf her and i beleve that wouldnt so good.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Chroma's damage buff is definitely a problem as it returns way more damage than it ought to, period. It's been bugged for ages, and DE acknowledged that more than a year ago. I guess you're another of the folks that don't get that Vex's damage buff was being applied way too many times at once. This post sketches it out pretty clearly:
 

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

So, incredibly powerful but a bit underplayed and often poo-pooed because she doesn't operate on autopilot?

[Vance.Stubbs]

3 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

yeah you're right. de is stupid slow in balancing. cus when they do, people cry that their toys are taken away. just like how forums are going right now. such balance changes should've been far more common, i definitely agree with that.

but can people please stop acting as de is nerfing every single good thing? every single thing they nerf its followed by a several new ways to build. no nerf was ever as significant as condition overload and thats just one thing.

Well, I actually think that Ember 4 needed to be toned down to prevent cheesing low level content, but on the other hand they made it worthless for late-game, since her x2 damage buff won't matter at all. I'd like her 3 ability to completely reworked into a defensive one, if the current changes to WoF will go live.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

10 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

People crying about Embers also consistently seem to forget that World On Fire, unlike almost every AOE ability in the game (honourable mention to Bastille), has a hard limit on contiguous targets.

Yes - well as I mentioned, I don't mod the range.  The base 15 meters is good as it is - but once this thing starts cranking up it's penalties, you effectively go down to 6 meters.  That's roughly 3 human bodies away, and ridiculously small area. 

15 meters was perfect, didn't need to be changed imo.  Even with the limit on targets you can hit, that generally covers 15 meters pretty well.  6 meters is just l ike wow... the enemies are going to be beside you before you can even start to hit them... 

[RedDirtTrooper]

Banshee changes are just going to further highlight how unfun and awful the current focus farm is. I'm all for encouraging a more active playstyle but fix the horrible focus acquisition system if you're going to wreck the soundquake builds. My first thought wasn't "Yay, that's going to change how I actively play Banshee!" It was, "Oh, no more farming focus while I drink a cup of coffee, guess I'll have to spam spores with Saryn, or put everything to sleep on Adaro if I can make myself do that for any length of time without just hitting ALT+F4 in disgust."

Edited February 3, 2018 by RedDirtTrooper

[Zeclem]

4 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

Well, I actually think that Ember 4 needed to be toned down to prevent cheesing low level content, but on the other hand they made it worthless for late-game, since her x2 damage buff won't matter at all. I'd like her 3 ability to completely reworked into a defensive one, if the current changes to WoF will go live.

eh, i honestly think her damage on 4 was always underrated thanks to accelerant buff. and iirc they are also changing her 3 too. we will see how it will turn out.

[Phyrak]

1 hour ago, Dark_Roxas said:

Two different abilities which got randomly the same duration? Please no. Then why cant we put excals abilities into his exalted blade, these are all abilities in which the exalted blade is used, why not combine them too?

The duration is the middle ground as such.

Both are defensively based and have synergy with elements, armour and weapons.

Combined with the nerf, it would make more sense that the two abilities became one and freed up a slot for another dragon/knight/dragon knight ability.

[Jolyne_]

 What with other squishy frames having damage reduction(DR), e.g: Mesa's Shatter Shield, and Gara's Splinter Storm, I propose Ember getting the same kind of thing.

 My first suggestion is to make her passive give DR and tie the amount she gets to her 2nd 3rd and 4th abilities, the way it would work is if one of the 3 abilities are active she gets 20% DR, if 2 are active she gets double that to 40% and if all 3 are active doubled again to 80% or it could just be a set amount for each like 25% DR for 1, 50% for 2, and 75% for 3 of them

 My other suggestion is for the DR to be tied to her 3rd ability, so if ember is inside the ring of fire she gets 80% DR and has she leaves the ring she quickly loses DR the farther she gets from it until at a certain distance she gets none at all.

 

 Note: I have no idea on what the DR percentages should be for either suggestion the ones i gave are really just placeholders or if the second suggestion should be affected by either power strength or range or both but i wanted to get this out there for people to see

Edited February 3, 2018 by Gilley

[AcceptYourDeath]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb Vance.Stubbs:

I feel it messes with her "combat mage" role too much and plain 95% reduction is ridicilous anyway.

Ridicilous isn`t the word I would use, basically any Warframe which has %-based damage reduction can reach 95%! Gara, Trinity, Mesa, Nekros, Mirage and I think although not %-based Chroma still reaches 95%? 

I think we already have a good amount of Warframes with exceptional survivabilty and damage output simultaneously and we don`t need to turn every Warframe into this. If only Ember would fulfill the cannon part for her glass-cannon concept it wouldn`t be as bad!

[LordDistructorss91]

14 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

stai scherzando. giocare per una volta, per favore.

Played I like them so thank you, not nerf please

[Katinka]

I like the idea of buffing her third as it's probably considered her weakest power (although her passive is quite poor too, but I don't expect much from passives other than some flavour).  If the DR buff applied to allies (players & NPCs) in the ring too then it would be nice for when I use Ember to solo Infested Defense/Mobile Defense/Excavation.

[Madway7]

Whether its a nerf or buff depends heavily on whether or not damage mods affect the damage multiplier.

Also they could look at her 1 and 3 that'd be great. (Imo 1 should be a large slow moving fireball and 3 either be returned to being Overheat or gets scaling in se form)

[Cryptix123]

Just now, Madway7 said:

Whether its a nerf or buff depends heavily on whether or not damage mods affect the damage multiplier.

Also they could look at her 1 and 3 that'd be great. (Imo 1 should be a large slow moving fireball and 3 either be returned to being Overheat or gets scaling in se form)

Steve says they'll be taking a look at her other ability changes on Monday.

[Madway7]

1 minute ago, Cryptix123 said:

Steve says they'll be taking a look at her other ability changes on Monday.

Oh good, depending on how that turns out might actually use her.

Any other extra upcoming changes?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Madway7

[phoenix1992]

People still don't know jack clem about Ember yet do the :
 

No player that has bothered to play Ember beyond the star charts uses WoF for damage dealing due to the obscene armor scaling of enemies.

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

What I know is the nerf is lousy and Rebecca died immediately in the stream when WoF ran out.  that is all anyone that plays Ember alot needs to see that she is dead now.  To bad because I didn't have her prime version and was going to support DE by getting her Unvault pack, but not after this nerf and no rework of her crappy one or three, that train has sailed.  So they lost out on what $59.95 from me.  Does that make you happy DE, I know it doesn't make me happy, but I am not paying for a frame I won't use now

[--END--Rikutatis]

Most of these changes sound great and even the nerfs to warframes I have invested a lot of time and resources to build came along with a clear and concise explanation as to why they needed to be changed for the long term health of the game, and I can get behind that design philosophy of more active gameplay and allowing everyone to have their "ninja moment". After that last arca plasmor nerf which I thought was very unfortunate and poorly executed (seemed like the nerf came just because of Harrow's new augment and was justified there, but kind of hurt the weapon in all other scenarios), this latest round of warframe changes was absolutely great stuff! 

But then again I usually frown at weapon nerfs more than warframes because of the huge investment some of us do on rivens for those weapons, some of which can cost thousands of platinum. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by --END--Rikutatis

[07Slevin]

The Ember change sounds realy nice!  hope it will be so nice like it sounds.

And Ember will no more useless for Level 60+.

 

vor 16 Stunden schrieb [DE]Connor:

instead of the current “set and forget” approach.

this is the reason i hate ember in random groups now. 3 of 4 squadmates feel totaly useless.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

4 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

People still don't know jack clem about Ember yet do the :
 

No player that has bothered to play Ember beyond the star charts uses WoF for damage dealing due to the obscene armor scaling of enemies.

Yes and so now the question is..

By reducing WOF range by half and increasing energy cost while giving it X2 damage (when damage is not what matters at the higher end compared to CC) does that make things better?

[(PSN)sinner_bh]

5 hours ago, kgabor said:

It doesn't if you use it with a Hush mod.

I know but then i lose DPS or have to sacrifice something else in the build. My ignis is the normal one and not the wraith, With Ember doing the brunt of the killing the ignis doesn't have to be min-maxed for damage, the times that I ran a hushed ignis with Ivara it wasn't doing that well against all factions, even modded for proper elemental combo.

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Yes and so now the question is..

By reducing WOF range by half and increasing energy cost while giving it X2 damage (when damage is not what matters at the higher end compared to CC) does that make things better?

It makes it a lot worse for people that bother to endurance run her, but a lot better for "nerf ember weekly" builds, since those builds don't run augments and duration. 

[phoenix1992]

Hello there,

Let's cut it to the case forum users - you know the weekly "nerf ember" topics. Some of you also know why they are dishonest at best.

Let's paint the picture of Ember in the long run and try to explain how the new change will effect the 3 main builds.

1. The issues Ember has and the change won't effect
a) Lack of Damage reduction
b) Lack of inert CC (must augment or it) 
c) No recovery options
d) Using the old drain mechanics (unlike of Ivara and Equinox among others)
e) The enemy cap for AoE ability - you can have 5 enemies under WoF/FQ and any moment.
f) Hard enemy armor scaling that makes relying on abilities only suicidal.
g) Useless Passive

2. The 3 builds and how they will be effected

a) The infamous "Nerf Ember" weekly build - does not run augments, runs efficiency, power and range - grats, this is the only build that will benefit from the change. 
b) The Firequake build - The thing Ember players wanted was better Firequake procs, the thing ember players got is a lot worse firequake procs (combination build with melee).
c) Flash Accelerant build - While not as effected as Firequake build, due to the innert nature of Ember (No CC or DR) it will also be effected (combination build with melee or AoE weapons).


End result - People using Ember to stomp amps will keep on stomping ants. People that tried to push her into endurance run can't do it in solo format anymore.

Good job.

Credentials : Over 35% on Ember Prime, Multiple over hour Ember solo runs.

Edited February 3, 2018 by phoenix1992

[Glavenusaur]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

What I know is the nerf is lousy and Rebecca died immediately in the stream when WoF ran out.  that is all anyone that plays Ember alot needs to see that she is dead now.  To bad because I didn't have her prime version and was going to support DE by getting her Unvault pack, but not after this nerf and no rework of her crappy one or three, that train has sailed.  So they lost out on what $59.95 from me.  Does that make you happy DE, I know it doesn't make me happy, but I am not paying for a frame I won't use now

Oh dear god, what have they done... they lost your $59.95?! how will they survive from here on out? oh the humanity!... the Horror!!! for gods sake DE PLEASE... Think of the children!!!