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Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited Part 2


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2 hours ago, XavierCruz said:

hey ember player, 
you guys know what to do after ember's rework? go prove DE wrong by going to low level to wreck those noob/haters :devil:

I have taken to using ember as a melee only in pub games. The results are the same with massive range weapon, but I guess less *@##$ing. Of course she insta-dies when not killing (revives, locks) but oh well.

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2 hours ago, XavierCruz said:

hey ember player, 
you guys know what to do after ember's rework? go prove DE wrong by going to low level to wreck those noob/haters :devil:

I have taken to using ember as a melee only in pub games. The results are the same with massive range weapon, but I guess less *@##$ing. Of course she insta-dies when not killing (revives, locks) but oh well.

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3 minutes ago, jiminatorx said:

I have taken to using ember as a melee only in pub games. The results are the same with massive range weapon, but I guess less *@##$ing. Of course she insta-dies when not killing (revives, locks) but oh well.

This is pretty much what a lot of people want fixed with Ember.

We're not asking for her to be a powerhouse, "OP-please-Nerf" frame. (As a matter of fact, people have even opted for less damage in her kit)

The thing people really want her to have is some kind of defensive utility that will help her survive in tough situations.

It's just really odd how so many frames have at least one way of doing this, yet Ember keeps losing all of her's.

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Thread has become a bit toxic, I don't blame the devs if they stopped listening to this thread's feedback by this point.

Some good points have been made, and constructive criticism is there.

But it's utterly buried under the back-and-forth banter, the whining posts that add nothing to the conversation, and the posts that assume that because DE made a mistake, they're obviously out for our throats and wallets and are just as bad as EA.

 

I don't expect DE to have to sift through all of this to find the better arguments.

 

Now, something DE could do to help this would be to stop merging threads, so that threads started with the sole purpose of whining at DE could be swiftly ignored, while more well-spoken players could make a much more engaging thread to themselves. It'd lead to a lot of clutter, but honestly, that should be entirely expected. They are changing a massive portion of the warframes in their game, after all. Changes to just 1 frame already generates a truck-load of feedback as is.

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38 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Thread has become a bit toxic, I don't blame the devs if they stopped listening to this thread's feedback by this point.

Some good points have been made, and constructive criticism is there.

But it's utterly buried under the back-and-forth banter, the whining posts that add nothing to the conversation, and the posts that assume that because DE made a mistake, they're obviously out for our throats and wallets and are just as bad as EA.

 

I don't expect DE to have to sift through all of this to find the better arguments.

 

Now, something DE could do to help this would be to stop merging threads, so that threads started with the sole purpose of whining at DE could be swiftly ignored, while more well-spoken players could make a much more engaging thread to themselves. It'd lead to a lot of clutter, but honestly, that should be entirely expected. They are changing a massive portion of the warframes in their game, after all. Changes to just 1 frame already generates a truck-load of feedback as is.

It wouldn't be too bad, since the salt mines tend to sink to the bottom anyway, and threads with more activity float up. Letting threads stay separated and not merging everything into a singular feeding frenzy would be nice.

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7 minutes ago, DeadMansChest said:

Maybe have a thread on proposing changes to Ember, and they update the OP to link towards other peoples' posts that add to that?

That way DE gets a focused area to read user feedback and criticisms with little noise and toxicity.

would get merged into this one

so theres no point into making a new post

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55 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Thread has become a bit toxic, I don't blame the devs if they stopped listening to this thread's feedback by this point.

According to DE, they have received a lot of constructive criticism..... from reddit.

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Huge lost opportunity with banshe. Leaving quake as deployable with a duration, as stated in the previous workshop, would do wonders in making her more fun. I don't even care about the single big dmg thing. I'd rather have no dmg and a duration. She would have CC, meaning no more oversquishiness, and it would synergize greatly with sonar. Instead, we get a 4 spam replacing a 4 channeling. Whoop de doo, much fun. 

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2 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Thread has become a bit toxic, I don't blame the devs if they stopped listening to this thread's feedback by this point.

Some good points have been made, and constructive criticism is there.

But it's utterly buried under the back-and-forth banter, the whining posts that add nothing to the conversation, and the posts that assume that because DE made a mistake, they're obviously out for our throats and wallets and are just as bad as EA.

 

I don't expect DE to have to sift through all of this to find the better arguments.

 

Now, something DE could do to help this would be to stop merging threads, so that threads started with the sole purpose of whining at DE could be swiftly ignored, while more well-spoken players could make a much more engaging thread to themselves. It'd lead to a lot of clutter, but honestly, that should be entirely expected. They are changing a massive portion of the warframes in their game, after all. Changes to just 1 frame already generates a truck-load of feedback as is.

Well when the Devs obviously refuse to listen to the community, I think we deserve to be a little toxic. Though I haven't seen too much toxicity so it's whatever. I strongly agree that they should've made separate threads for each Frame. Merging them obviously hasn't had much effect on DEs decisions.

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2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

Well when the Devs obviously refuse to listen to the community, I think we deserve to be a little toxic. Though I haven't seen too much toxicity so it's whatever. I strongly agree that they should've made separate threads for each Frame. Merging them obviously hasn't had much effect on DEs decisions.

"..we deserve to be a little toxic.".

Thinking like that just starts a vicious cycle of revenge.

If you think you are in the right and good, then you are obligated to act like it. The moment you resort to scummy tactics, even if only to fight another scummy tactic, you are no longer presenting a good argument.

 

And again, we haven't made it easy for them to read this thread. It's not 100% civil, far from it. They might be trying to listen, but sifting through all of this isn't exactly practical.

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Hot from Devstream 106 are some changes for Mirage and Hydroid:

Mirage

  • Hall of Mirrors and Eclipse now share the same Ability Duration value at max rank.
  • Sounds like Hall of Mirrors is now recastable!

Hydroid

  • Enemies in Undertow will be dragged along by Tidal Surge!
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I know it's a bit late, but any chance Volt can get a little Quality of Life buff for Speed? Take a page from Limbo's Rift Dash and have Speed leave an 'electric mark' that lasts the duration and provides the Speed buff for allies who weren't within range of Volt when he cast or accidentally back flipped out of it and want back in. Alternatively, leave a fire trail like a DeLorean hitting 88 mph, but that kind of clashes with Volt's electric theme.

And a little something from my wish list for Ivara. Give her Dash Wire arrow a kind of secondary fire mode that lets you designate where the zip line connects to rather than firing back towards Ivara. If you're still holding the cast button when the original Dash Wire arrow lands, instead of it automatically connecting to Ivara's feet (or the wall behind her if she's in the air) you can aim and fire a second Dash Wire arrow by releasing the cast button that connects to the first one. This way you can set up your wires easier, or provide ranged support for an ally by connecting two points without going over to them. Borrow a little bit of Nidus' 1 where it shows you a 'ghost' target where your Dash Wire will end up when you release-cast the second one, or if your target is invalid because of obstruction or distance.

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3 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

"..we deserve to be a little toxic.".

Thinking like that just starts a vicious cycle of revenge.

If you think you are in the right and good, then you are obligated to act like it. The moment you resort to scummy tactics, even if only to fight another scummy tactic, you are no longer presenting a good argument.

 

And again, we haven't made it easy for them to read this thread. It's not 100% civil, far from it. They might be trying to listen, but sifting through all of this isn't exactly practical.

I do feel you are are right. However DE is company, and a lot of people seem to think they're our friends or something. Time and time again the community has  brought up problems that need to be addressed, yet they stay in the game for who knows how long. These Ember changes are only the most recent example. With the Shrine Of Eidolon update rolling in tomorrow on PC, as far as I know DE has not moved at all on Ember, even with the pages and pages of good feedback on both the mixed up threads here. This has happened many times before, and some people think that just because DE addressed one or two small lines of feedback, that they're listening to is as a whole. If DE cannot currently take is seriously, then I feel that some of us should take our business elsewhere.

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Since there are many great improvements to the gameplay of several Warframes, might i suggest some additional ones?

It would be nice if Saryns Molt ability could be used while attacking in melee. Currently the melee attack animations are among the few exceptions that prevent Molt. Also, Molt could really use a few seconds of invulnerability similar to other abilities.

Speaking of Saryn, her Miasma ability stops all movement and drops her to the ground while in air. It would feel much better if she could keep walking.

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1 hour ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

I do feel you are are right. However DE is company, and a lot of people seem to think they're our friends or something. Time and time again the community has  brought up problems that need to be addressed, yet they stay in the game for who knows how long. These Ember changes are only the most recent example. With the Shrine Of Eidolon update rolling in tomorrow on PC, as far as I know DE has not moved at all on Ember, even with the pages and pages of good feedback on both the mixed up threads here. This has happened many times before, and some people think that just because DE addressed one or two small lines of feedback, that they're listening to is as a whole. If DE cannot currently take is seriously, then I feel that some of us should take our business elsewhere.

I would say that they have made more than a few lines of feedback worth of changes. Ember is not the only frame or the be all end all. The self centeredness has made the thread a bit annoying to read. Friends nothing, passive aggressive trolling and defeatist dirges are simply useless and not going to get changes made any quicker.

If you honestly have made up your mind about DE then you should leave now, not clutter up the suggestions with a spam of demotivation against feedback.

You want to say DE are not your friends, but they are not some ex lover either. Things like suggesting that there is a "grudge" against Ember players, is honestly utterly worthless commentary.

 

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After trying the changes, ember is still a low-level roomsweeper (you can either reactivate WoF for the range, or just stay ahead of the team a little, and the killing is still all yours). 

So at least that goal of the rework wasn’t accomplished. 

 

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Ive been playing non stop since the launch of the update getting myself familiar with most of the changes to all the warframes mentioned
and for the most part the changes feel really good

ash is amazing now and chroma while not as potentially damaging as before still manages to feel better overall
I also enjoyed mags new revised augment alot tho she still just HOGS energy like crazy

my biggest fear with ember still came true
I dont like to use range mods in my build and I was stuck with 7m WoF
the range diminish happens very fast and she now HOGS energy
I still suggest putting a range diminish cap somewhere around the base value 13-15m because as it is now double damage is not worth the  ability stuck in 7m
I did try to compensate with stretch but it still felt going to under 10m
I also suggest little bit reducing the efficiency loss coz I was constantly starving for more energy

also her survivability needs updating she had trouble before and now shes just constantly in trouble

I like the changes to fireball but I dont now if its gonna scale very far tbh other than for cc maybe

as for other things
volt still needs updates with speed duration and base sprint speed and his shock could use some love aswell

and shields as a survivability mechanic need to be updated

I was pretty happy with both atlas and zephyr reworks
however zephyrs passive is still there and its still just as annoying and unnecessarily slows down the frame and makes her clumsy to control

also atlases new 3rd ability is very energy expensive
I understand that yes it petrifies instantly enemies but maybe just a wittle bit reduce the cost kay?

overall Im very happy with this update so far
still alot of content to go through tho

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