[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: Sanctuary Onslaught Feedback Megathread

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

alright #*!% onslaught, grineer engineers on a huge tileset for zone 8 the spawns were so S#&$ that we failed with one second left #*!%ing #*!% this mode

[ripleysamus]

Apparently, if you spam an ability too much, Simaris will disable the ability. I greatly disagree with this change. I understand if you don't want Banshees to spam their 4s to victory but this is only a band aid solution that kind of has a knock on effect on other players. A pretty good example was when I was running Mag Prime and I was low on shields and I needed to restore them right away. So, I spammed my 4 since it has the ability to restore my shields as well as the shields of other party members. However, Simaris didn't like that and disabled it. So, I think this is pretty unreasonable and a much better solution would probably be to change Banshee a bit.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Overall I rather enjoy the concept of a fast paced "kill all you can fast" game mode, but all too often, I feel like I fail not because of inadequacy on my part, but because the maps don't spawn enough enemies close enough for me to kill to keep efficiency up. Either enemies need to give more efficiency per kill, or spawns need to be greatly increased across the board.

And enemies like noxes and manics that have invincibility phases or massive unbypassable DR have no business being in a "kill fast" game mode. 

[InfinitiveFlash]

Oi DE you should be making the game harder when playing in a team and easier when playing solo NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND you muppets. Fun to play mode but i would appreciate some balance for solo players since its really easy to do the full rotation in a team and almost impossible solo even when you kill everything in sight.

[Orbanya]

This last hotfix busted the Elite Onslaught. You only needed to fix the Drudge spawns and portal lag, this just broke it more IMO. You've taken the speed out of the mode and made bullet sponges that can one-shot you on the 1st/2nd wave. By doing so you absolutely reduced the amount of viable frames and builds. Love the game but this was a questionable move. Please revert the scaling. If not I guess we can all enjoy Maimframe. 

.

[PrivateRiem]

So DE decided to reduce enemy levels to boredom threshold. Thanks DE for ruining it. We couldn't have something fun for vets to do.

[2krntoast]

Ok, CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK TIME

What's wrong with the Elite Onslaught?

The intention was to create a challenging gamemode for veterans.

As a team of veterans you don't have any challenge in reaching a high zone of any kind. You go until you hit a brick wall of not enough enemies spawning for you to keep the "efficiency" up to a level that allows you to reach the next zone. The Changes you did due to the scaling being wrong and enemies being way to easy to defeat lowered the focus gains and overall affinity and therefore focus that is possible to be gained.

Honestly...   Not a problem, since alot of the veterans that you're trying to target with this new gamemode are and have been done with focus for some time now.

Let's talk leaderboards now:     since warframe is primarily PVE you have to keep us interested with new stuff to do, one interesting way that fell out of favor for some reason is creating leaderboards that create a PVP-like competition between PVE players. NEAT just not being used properly. I'll try to describe why leaderboards like you are implementing in the onslaught game mode don't work as intended:

There is no challenge in getting to the highest zone. You just run out of enemies to keep the efficiency up enough. This will result in the following:

A Huge amount of people being at the exact same zone hitting a brick wall, just like we have been doing for the past couple of days.

If you want to create a relatively short game of about 20 minutes that has an arcade like feel in terms of leaderboards, you're missing the point. hard.

make it scale harder, make us use our minmaxed gear... make us not being able to get to the next zone because it was to damn hard to kill the enemy, not because we were running around in circles searching for the next crewman or whatever else is not spawning just to be disappointed because the last 10 enemies you killed didn't contribute anything to your overall efficiency. Because that is damn frustrating.

Going down due to lack of spawn is the exact wrong way to get player interest to rise and to motivate the player to push even further the next time he tries. As it is right now, I don't want to push again, because I'm certain I'm going to run around again at a certain point not finding enemies.

Hope this helps clear up the problems from a veterans point of view.

Cheers

[GinKenshin]

How about for the elite mode, you can only use X number of frames each week.

 

for example: this week you can only use ivara, ember, loki, frost, rhino. next week you can only use equinox, mesa, harrow, gara, limbo.....and so on. that what the 'vets' will have the challenge of diversifying what frame to use and come up with a strategy and synergy with the available frames during the week 

you can even go as far as limiting what weapons we can use. something like melee and bow only, rifle and dual pistols only....etc (preferably 2 categories) 

 

this way you'll give us:

-challenge like I said by diversity and finding synergy

-fight cheese 'tactics', at least for the most part depending on which frames are available 

 

 

 

[LSG501]

You know it would be really nice not to be stuck in an endless migration loop when the host leaves forcing us to use alt+f4 meaning we lose everything.... luckily I haven't lost anything but relics when this happens but I've seen others losing a lot harder to attain items... why has something so important not been fixed yet. 

[dudefaceguy]

Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is much more challenging now; thanks for fixing the scaling bug, and for not reducing the levels very much. The efficiency drain is okay in a squad, but too fast for solo play. I'd like to be able to do ESO solo up to round 8 without having to use extreme cheese to keep up with the efficiency drain.

I just did an 8-round run in a squad using Inaros, the Synoid Gammacor, and the Sibear. I came out with 23% of damage done, which is pretty good considering that my loadout and playstyle was very non-meta. I was not using super cheesy tactics like maiming strike, and I wasn't even running a range mod on the Sibear. I was using melee combos, combining my different weapons depending on the faction, and using finishers on tougher enemies. Based on this, it seems like the efficiency is pretty well-tuned for a squad. However, I was only able to make it to round 4 when playing solo using the same tactics. I'd like to see some more forgiving efficiency drain in solo play, so that we can get to round 8 without having to use the cheesiest of cheesy cheese.

Regarding the scaling of enemy levels, I think it could go higher by round 8. They weren't quite level 100. It would be nice to have higher levels and more forgiving efficiency drain. This would enable more thoughtful combat with individual enemies.

Again, thanks for the fix!

[AutoPhox]

Super awesome. Super fun.

However, the new update went a bit too far. I cant even reach zone 8 solo, when i could get to zone 12 before.

I hope this gets reversed to some degree or the rotation C drops(Khora) are out of my reach.

[Cerenax]

The drain on elite onslaught is too high now and makes it impossible to get past level 7 for solo players. I have tried several times, and no matter how much DPS I'm quickly outputing and how fast I'm killing enemies, it still can't be done. I have tried with eclipse+HoM Mirage with a Scoliac with maiming strike  + primed reach + a really good riven and I still coudn't get past level 7 no matter how fast I killed enemies.

[m0b1us1]

DE, look, I know its a new mode and all and that you desperately want this to be "end game" because you got rid of the only true end game, but that just isn't going to happen like this. The low gravity effect is nice and making the enemies actually as strong as they should be is a step in the right direction, but I think you still don't understand something.

Gear checks aren't difficult. The version that was first released versus this one has almost no difference to me (other than the tile sets are feeling like they are getting worse) or to other elite players. Start the levels at 100 or 200 and we will still find a way to beat them without a problem. Why does DE not realize just how strong you can become in their own game? 

End game should put our skills and experiences to the test, not how much we can use the most OP weapons or frame combos. True end game should be able to be completed with any frame and any weapon because the player's abilities are the bulk of what is being tested. Right now, the only thing this mode challenges is your gear. A zephyr will NEVER be able to perform a nuke trin or a tank just running around using melee. Raids, as buggy as they were, might have had a meta, but in no way did they so grossly favor one frame over the other. Take any frame in, yes, it might have taken you longer, but at the end of the day, whether you brought a Zephyr, Limbo, Ember, Trin, or Nova, everyone got the same rewards. In this game mode, like I said, certain frames will simply NEVER be able to compete with others. That's not the end game I want where your rewards are based on "meta" frames.

Simply throwing on another condition (gravity from what I have seen) does not make it harder. It might for newer players who haven't reached the upper levels yet, but you are trying to pass this off as end game. You have to get far more creative than just an over glorified, high level, rushed, timed exterminate. Go play your own mode with OUR set ups and OUR gear as well as lower level builds and your builds. If what you use to test this is the incomplete builds that we see routinely on your streams, then its no wonder why you simply don't understand that "elite" onslaught is easy. "Elite" onslaught simply relies too much on artificial difficulty and not authentic difficulty.

Then there is the huge issue of rewards and how bad these rewards are. Peculiar mods are nice and all, but what you are essentially saying to vets is "Hey, we know you worked hard to get to this point, so now go make yourself weaker for no reason!". It feels like a slap in the face for getting to this point. Give us a reason to play this mode. Give us some crazy rewards like cosmetics that DON'T make us weaker, or items that can only be obtained with special points that you only get once you reach a certain zone, make this "end game" give us "end game" rewards! Like an item that let's players attach an arcane to a helm that can only be obtained with 2m+ points or something.

We want a CHALLENGE DE. We want to feel everything we have learned and skills gained to be tested, not how easily we can support the saryn/DPS frame, or use nuke trin, or spin-to-win. We have done that for years. End game needs to put us as players to the test.

[Reifnir]

So far, the entire mode seems to be in the "get it over with and forget" category. 

I know I will never touch it again (in its current state) as soon as I get all Khora parts and all Vandals. 

Right now, Onslaught takes everything that was bad about old Endless Void (tower I-IV Defense, anyone?) - pathetic drop rates of sought-after items, cheesy meta, mind-numbingly boring gameplay and amplifies it to the max. At least with the old Void Endless you felt like your effort meant you'll get more Prime parts for less keys wasted. With Onslaught it's either "8 waves and out" or pointless e-peen leaderboard grind.

It's the first mode in a long time where I felt I really, REALLY need to grab a book or watch something on the side to keep me from falling asleep. Even Infested Salvage was a bit more fun to play, and that's saying something. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Reifnir

[Chad1661]

Host migration still not fixed.....

[Borg1611]

Absolutely hate the changes on 4/25.

Yesterday normal onslaught was DECENT for focus while farming for khora parts. Not too much. Just decent. Now it's like 50% less on average unless you get a really lucky combo. Without a booster I use to get at least 60k from 8 zones. Now it's like half of that and there are now less viable options to even make it comfortably that far. Due to the changes in enemy health, you'd also now have to depend on weapons, possibly even range riven melee slide attacks (I still don't have a riven for any decent high disposition whips or staves and will never buy one) compared to AoE abilities that use to work to at least zone 8 comfortably that just don't work as well anymore. 

You can't hide behind the defense of, well it's better than most other missions! Yea, we know 99% of content in this game is completely and totally worthless for focus. We know the focus grind is horrendous and takes way too long still even if you could easily cap it every day. We've been telling you that for... a really really long time now. That's not a compelling defense of nerfing focus gains from a mode that wasn't over the top in that regard at all.

If you're not just going to re-tune focus gains in general, maybe we need a permanent conversion buff while in onslaught modes now to compensate for the other changes. 

edit: and also, people may have installed focus lenses on certain frames that yesterday could easily farm focus with their abilities, but now are simply not nearly as impressive and due to the horrendous design of focus lenses, you're just out that lens if you no longer want to use that frame for that purpose. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Borg1611

[EinheriarJudith]

they really made harrow and trinity popular this time around ay? in elite right at the beginning your energy will stay at 0 because of eximus spam even if you use zenurik. not that i might relying on trin and harrow. the heals DR and energy gain is key.

[Gizogin]

6 hours ago, ridleysamusprime said:

Apparently, if you spam an ability too much, Simaris will disable the ability. I greatly disagree with this change. I understand if you don't want Banshees to spam their 4s to victory but this is only a band aid solution that kind of has a knock on effect on other players. A pretty good example was when I was running Mag Prime and I was low on shields and I needed to restore them right away. So, I spammed my 4 since it has the ability to restore my shields as well as the shields of other party members. However, Simaris didn't like that and disabled it. So, I think this is pretty unreasonable and a much better solution would probably be to change Banshee a bit.

This isn't a change; it's been part of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught since the very beginning. It also only applies on ability cast, so a channeled ability like Sound Quake doesn't get blocked.

[NoRainNoRainbow]

Okay, so initially I was not very happy with the new changes, but having played it the properly scaled enemies actually feels really nice. What makes it not nice however is the harder to kill scaled enemies and the new efficiency drain levels working together, making it harder to progress as anything but optimal groups. Would be nice to see that toned down a little now the enemies are the right strength.

The focus feels a lot worse to get now, since the enemies are harder to kill as well as giving less focus when killed, would like to see larger multipliers, whether that means just giving a bonus or letting us stay later for longer to get to the higher multipliers that are there, as it is at current I probably won't play it much once I've got all the rewards I want, giving more focus here would change that. 

Don't understand why with Khora being removed from the tables you had to reduce the weapon parts drop chances, that kind of sucks. 

The enemy spawn level is at least okay on the tiles I've got to, but on larger maps they are extremely spread out, particularly through doors or behind walls, and won't approach the group at all, meaning you have to hunt them down, using more time to get less efficiency, would be good if they could aggro to the players from larger distances.

Our feedback last time was not listened to, but hopefully the changes will continue until we find what works for us both.

Edited April 26, 2018 by NoRainNoRainbow

[BladeGrip]

The latest 'fix' made solo impossible to access loot C. Using nuker frame? Have fun getting nuked by Napalm in zone 2 and becoming obsolete zone 4 onwards. Using tanker frame and meme strike setup? Have fun hunting enemies spread around in zone 5 onwards. Also, zone 7 has an excessive amount of void bombard and nullifiers. Have fun seeing yellow all over your screen.

The enemy type balance is also way off balance (This is from memory so forgive me if I made mistakes):

• Zone 1: Infested (Regular)
• Zone 2: Grineer with Napalms and Noxes
• Zone 3: Corrupted (Regular)
• Zone 4: Corpus with Nulls and Techs
• Zone 5: Grineer
• Zone 6: Grineer again
• Zone 7: Corrupted with Bombards, Ancients, and Nulls (MAH EYES!)
• Zone 8: Never made it there

Grineer, the hardest to kill enemy type, appears the most often in a game mode where you are required to kill fast. And after the two grineer zones in a row you are presented something even worse. Okay...

Soloing for Loot C is impossible, and multiplayer is still broken. Gonna put off the game mode for a while.

/Rant

[Checht]

Just returned to play Elite Sanctuary Onslaught after Hotfix 22.18.7, going up to Zone 8/9 a few times. Gotta say that I am very impressed now that the enemies have been made more difficult. Let me do an update on what I like and some suggestions.

What I like:

1. Enemies are now more difficult after the buff/denerf. I finally felt some threat of dying by enemy attacks, instead of just needing to kill fast. Survivability is now more significant for the level as compared to before the update, and there's more of a need to balance between surviving and killing fast.

2. Efficiency decay seems to have slowed down a little for Zones 1-8? Felt like it. This lets us put more emphasis on surviving than just killing fast. Good balance between the needs to survive and to kill fast is good.

3. Axi relics as loot. Now I can farm resources to do the other challenging content (T4 Endless Orokin Void Fissures) by doing a challenging content (Elite Sanctuary Onslaught), which is nice for players who enjoy some challenge.

4. Environmental hazard.

 

Suggestions:

1. Give us 0 revives. With 4 revives, we can still pretty much ignore survivability and focus on nuking to reach zone 8. For a true hardcore content and "bite-size" challenge, give us 0 revives, this emphasize survivability a little more, giving more incentive to use other frames other than AOE DPS nukes. Also, this fosters urgency to work as a team.

2. It felt that enemies could be made harder and let them scale up faster in terms of level. Efficiency decay can be slowed down a little more or efficiency gain per kill can be increased to compensate for this. This tips the balance towards the survivability side a little more, balancing it with the need to kill fast.

3. Let us have some background music in ESO.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Checht

[Koldraxon-732]

Host migration issues that remain:
-When Host migrates just after a Jump, infinite loading screen (even when it's just you and everyone else bailed out) with no 'force extraction' button.

Suggested solution:
-Force Extraction button on loading screens (only appears during Host Migrations).
--This would make the game think you won, like it usually does when a Host Migration fails and kicks everyone back to their Orbiters.

[-PapaFiddy-]

Right. I know this has been covered to death, but I feel like I should put in my two-cents worth on the drop rate/chance rant.

I've been doing Elite Sanctuary Onslaught for anywhere between 6 to 8 hours a day since Saturday, I'm just finishing my 6th day now. In total, that's between 36-48 hours of elite onslaught. In this time, I have managed to obtain the following from the vandal list: Braton Vandal blueprint, Braton Vandal stock, Braton Vandal Barrel, Lato Vandal reciever. Four parts in roughly 42 hours, that's less than 1 part every 10 hours. Also, not to mention, I didn't get the Lua scene until today either, and I don't have Khora yet either. Now, for people like me, Its only going to be a matter of a couple more weeks at most until I get both vandal sets at this rate (as unhealthy as it is). This is not going to be the case for a lot of other Warframe players though. People have lives to live, jobs to go to, bills and taxes to pay, and much more. For these people, managing to get the ~42 hours that I've gotten already is going to take weeks, maybe even months! It will take them far too long to get the things they want at the current drop rate of pretty much everything except relics and endo. Its not fair on them at all.

[LSG501]

5 hours ago, Checht said:

Suggestions:

1. Give us 0 revives. With 4 revives, we can still pretty much ignore survivability and focus on nuking to reach zone 8. For a true hardcore content and "bite-size" challenge, give us 0 revives, this emphasize survivability a little more, giving more incentive to use other frames other than AOE DPS nukes. Also, this fosters urgency to work as a team.

No thanks, that will just push most players into using tanks which then basically turns onslaught into a melee/shooting mission.  We shouldn't be restricted in what we want to take to a mission.

[aligatorno]

With the latest hotfix , you made the mode even unfriendlier toward solo players. I can understand you wanting it to be difficult, but there's a clear difference between difficult and impossible. As it currently stands, it's almost impossible to get past the current zone 5 because of how the tiles and spawns work. The tiles are way too big, the spawns are way too thinly spread, making killing enough enemies to even sustain the efficiency meter, let alone increase it, an almost impossible feat. 

My suggestions to solve this problem are these :

1. Make spawns happen near the player instead of spawn zones, so that they won't spawn at the other side of a 50-100m tile. 
2. Choose more grounded tile sets, those who aren't full of stairs and obstacles. 
3. or
4. Make the efficiency drain be based on player count, making the current drain be for 4x players and each missing player to remove 20% of the drain.