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[DE]Rebecca

Khora's Planned Changes

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I want the Exalted Whip. :c Can we make it an augment for Whipclaw? I was looking forwards to a new whip stance from her, but it's gone now. I liked her physical element switching! But then again I'm a weird impact-loving Tenno.

Edited by Yuni_Hermit
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I'm impressed with the changes, hope they turn out ok.

But most important question, do I get my forma back from Venari or is she still able to be forma'ed since she's a passive......?

Nice work!

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Okay, so I usually take a backseat to most of these discussions, but Khora and Venari have a special place in my heart now. (Mainly Venari but that's another matter all together) And I have some feedback about the aforementioned changes.

  • The Ability Cast speed up? absolutely amazing, I 100% think that it was a necessary change to her kit.
  • Whipclaw
    • Why is the damage not 100% across the board to enemies in Strangledome, it's not like the ability actually does damage anyway. I think that making it 100% to everything inside Strangledome when Khora uses her 1 on it would be the best bet, along with increasing the base damage to something more in line with Gara's 1.
  • Ensnare
    • I think all the changes made to ensnare are pretty solid, even if I think the ability itself is a little on the weaker side, I think that changing it from a single target CC that spreads it should act more like Inaros' 1, where she sends out a wave of silver vines that ensnare enemies and latch on to others around them
  • Venari
    • Venari changes are good, however I believe that we should A) be able to revive Venari like a normal cat OR just cast our 3 again to revive her and that B) I think the healing, damage done by Venari, and whatever Protect does should be better explained... somewhere, as it is they're all VERY vague as to what their real use is.
  • Strangledome
    • You guys are currently still in the process of working on Strangledome so I don't have much to say until those changes are released, I think a major buff would be to have it act like Frost's snowglobe, where enemies that walk in are CC'ed and also so that enemies cannot shoot through, this would allow her to be of use in high level missions where survivability is necessary.

These are just MY ideas of what changes I would like to see in Khora, but I really hope you guys read this and the rest of the community's opinions and make her the good frame that she deserves to be, I wish you the best of luck, Paradise out

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24 minutes ago, Crithpyy said:

That's all I want. I don't understand why they're shying away from the Exalted Whip idea. 

My guess is either they haven't figured out what to do with changing it's effect since Damage 2.5 was scrapped and switching between IPS is kinda not super great. 

  • My suggestion there is instead of switching between IPS, have it switch between the three Mod loadouts for the equipped Melee. So you can Customize the Whip three different ways and swap between them on the fly. Which would make it synergize sooooo well with Onslaught.

Alternatively, because a bunch of salty people are conflating Whips with Maiming Strike and shrieking about Spin-2-Win. 

  • Whips are not Maiming Strike and Maiming Strike is not Whips. Maiming doesn't apply to Exalted weapons along with a ton of other Mods or Rivens as a whole. So looking at the monstrous Beast you can build a Whip into with mods that don't effect Exalted weapons is kinda moot. 

Those would be my two guesses. 

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53 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

 

    •  
  • Venari
  • Venari is now a passive ability - Venari is simply there, no casting required. When she dies, she will be revived when you Revive.
    •  

please, if you go with this, make it to where we can summon her with energy if she dies, a power shouldn't be based off of needing to revive to get it back

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Id like to see Khora get something similar to Atlas 1 where she could have different direction whip lashes instead of just the single target she could do the first straight the second sideways and third some other kind of whip move. Hitting enemies ensnared by her 2 could take more damage or give some kind of buff like armor or something?

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As a suggestion for the Venari change, could you also make it so that pressing 3 to change her stance will also automatically teleport her to your side from wherever she is and whatever she is currently doing?  

I say this for two reasons:

Firstly, it'd make her healing and protection stances more reliable since they are proximity based.

Secondly, Venari seems to be prone to getting stuck on things and ceasing to follow, and will not return to the player no matter how far the gap between them is, she will simply stay there for the entire mission no matter how far you go, so being able to 'reset' her position would be a good way of fixing that issue.

Example image of Venariu being stuck:

6bxaFqo.jpg

 

With that said, I really like the look of the changes.  One thing I will say though is try to ignore people spouting that she needs to 'specialise' in something or her abilities need to be COMPLETELY reworked.  She does not.  She's a really strong frame that can do things other frames cannot if you know how to play to her strengths and put the right mods on.  She fills a niche that has been left open for a long time... or put more basically, she's what Titania SHOULD have been.  Reliable crowd control, good damage output, and beneficial effects to the team, without any over-powering abilities that make people only play her one way (like Mirage, Loki, Ash etc.).  I really like her, even in her current state, and I can't really see me playing any other frame for a long while because of it.

P.S:  Any news on the fix for Venari's deaths/dismissal causing Kubrows to lose loyalty?  I really want to use my Raksa Kubrow with Khora but the loyalty bug is making it impossible right now.

Edited by Konachibi
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These changes are a big step in the right direction, so thank you! I still firmly believe that Strangledome needs to be removed or heavily changed into something other than an odd CC ability. Right now you're forced to hit enemies caught in its vertices with body shots instead of headshots since they dangle and spin around. And as amazing and funny as that looks, it's not very practical when you're trying to kill them. 

Another issue that you haven't mentioned is Venari's AI. She should always be on screen with us, attacking enemies with us (assisting us in our slaughter), not playing "Where's Waldo?" with us all the time. There have been too many occasions where she just stands there being shot by enemies, not doing anything. Can her attacks be made more consistent? And is she supposed to deal the most damage from our kit, or is Khora supposed to? Or is it supposed to be a balance of both?

One question I would really appreciate being answered is what place is she meant to have? Are we supposed to play her as a tank? As a damage frame? As a CC frame? I would personally like her to be damage frame with some CC thrown in but I am curious what direction the devs want to take her in and what place she has in the game because, despite these great changes, it's unclear where she can excel. 

Edited by Threa
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Liking a few of the tweaks so far, but the biggest issues are:

Whipclaw remains inconsistent with its hit detection and direction of attack

Forcing venari to only be reviveable only when the player revives is one of the absolute stupidest changes I've seen. This will force players at later stages to just keep her at heal mode and pray that's enough to keep her alive.

Why not have venari get sent back to the orbiter instead to heal, them come back after a duration, making her 3 revert to what it is now until summoned.

And as to what her 3 can be used for while venari is dead, this is where i think the impact/puncture/slash mode should have been kept in her kit instead of being removed in a panic

Overall, it is appreciated that she's being changed, but it would also be more appreciated if the Devs would instead use a player's idea when it comes to making changes thus preventing things like this from happening

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it's good to see improvements to Khora so first up thank you for that.... but....

and yeah i know... here we go ... there is always a "but"...

 

i still belive you should step away from the Strangledome and put in the Exalted Whip....

the reason why is simple... we already have enough Crowd Controll in the game as it is

also with the buffs to hr Two her CC should be good enough solo... 

 

if however you still wanna go with her 4... can you at least rename it :D i maybe the only one but i find the name stupid do be absolutly honest here

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I am very much enjoying these changes that are to come. However that Venari one has me very iffy idk if i like the fact that she's a passive and if she dies, she is gone forever(Ik you can revive her) cause the AI is not that smart sometimes and I will be on the other side of the map and Venari will be in the same place not with me getting shot to death. Personally i would just rather her stay as a 3 but I'm not going to bug cause you guys are doing great fixing Khora.

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I feel like that venari should have a 5 minute cool down or something if the player isn’t able to revive it since it’s supposed to be an integral part of the frame so it would feel weird having it die and then having a useless spot for your powers. Sometimes it’s pretty tough to revive so a long cool down if unable to sounds reasonable to me

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Will Venari be replacing Khora's Beastshield passive? If not, will the passive be changed to being a flat armor buff instead of being a percent? Also will it be affected by companions from allies or just the ones you have equipped? Finally, can we get the ability with her 3rd power to command Venari to target specific enemies? Perhaps holding 3 while tapping 3 cycles between modes? For example, in Attack mode she attacks a targeted enemy, in Heal mode she heals targeted ally, and Defense mode she disarms targeted enemy?

In terms of current suggested changes, Whipclaw still needs work on its hit detection, and while I love the idea of Venari being a passive, I don't like the idea of her not coming back upon death unless the player dies. Shes integral to Khora's design and should come back after a duration or something. Also I think Venari's stats should scale based on Power Strength AND equipped mods.

Edited by DawnoftheWhiteFury
Added more suggestions based on other comments
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17 minutes ago, Raptos22 said:

Will you be upping her drop rates so she isn't a 50 hour grind? 

Was she that long of a grind, It took me 2 days I guess RNG Jesus was on my side.

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2 minutes ago, Enclave_commander said:

I feel like that venari should have a 5 minute cool down or something if the player isn’t able to revive it since it’s supposed to be an integral part of the frame so it would feel weird having it die and then having a useless spot for your powers. Sometimes it’s pretty tough to revive so a long cool down if unable to sounds reasonable to me

Yes that is a great idea however i say 1min or 45sec cool down. 

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7 minutes ago, KaizerMadMaik said:

it's good to see improvements to Khora so first up thank you for that.... but....

and yeah i know... here we go ... there is always a "but"...

 

i still belive you should step away from the Strangledome and put in the Exalted Whip....

the reason why is simple... we already have enough Crowd Controll in the game as it is

also with the buffs to hr Two her CC should be good enough solo... 

 

if however you still wanna go with her 4... can you at least rename it :D i maybe the only one but i find the name stupid do be absolutly honest here

I honestly like it, I feel as if we should also let the DE have fun in naming. I enjoy when some skills get a stupid or weird name.

 

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A little shock to see people asking for forma back after formaing a warframe that was released less than 2 business days ago, in a game that consistently tweaks it's content in the weeks following a new release, on a Warframe DE was upfront in saying would be looked at over the weekend.

I might be being mean but I feel like you forma at your own risk.

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Whipclaw

-A good compromise between "commands" is to have it so Venari's forms affect Khora's 1. I.e:Defense whip knocksdown/disarms, or having Venari "join in" on Khora's abilities. I.e: Pinballing around her dome; or comet-ing to whip location.

 

Strangle Dome

-I wish the dome could be toggled inward and outward.

Edited by Synpai
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Personally, reworking her 3 into just "switch kavat mode for energy" seems like a waste right now, unless you're also overhauling venari's different modes, it seems like filling a slot just to have it filled. I'd like it if it were replaced with a new ability all together, preferably something whip based(but not necessarily the "exalted whip" but that would be nice) since khora does still have those four whip handles coming out of her back that are no unused in any of her abilities.

 

Secondly, I really think whipclaw and ensnare should just be rolled into a single ability that whips an enemy, which would wrap them up and deal damage and then pull in more enemies and wrap them up as well. This also gives her room for another ability and helps make khora stand out a bit more by avoiding comparisons to other frames' abilities whipclaw and ensnare were getting.

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31 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Khora’s third ability overrides Venari’s target and changes her battle posture at an energy cost.

How would this work? Currently pressing the ability key while Venari is active switches her posture immediately, so would it continue to work like that but essentially mark an enemy on your crosshair whenever you do? Or will it cycle like Vauban and Ivara's multi ability wheels and holding it activates the posture and mark?

There's currently a big bug in the Simulacrum where Pets do not actually benefit from equipped mods, and the upgrade screen also shows this. My Helminth Charger remained at 10% crit chance with Bite and Hunter Synergy despite going over 100% crit chance normally with both mods and the primary I use, and barely does damage against even unarmored enemies despite having those mods and Maul on, while outside the Simulacrum it has the proper stats. Please fix this soon, it makes testing their capabilities in Simulacrum tests impossible.

Also, I had some ideas for improving her abilities as well.

Whipclaw

Holding the key should make Khora twirl her whip and swing it in an arc in front of her, dealing normal damage to enemies at the whip's tip. Enemies under the effect of Ensnare that are hit by this whip swing won't be damaged but instead be grabbed and held by Khora w/ the whip remaining out. Pressing the key again will have Khora throw any grabbed enemies in the direction of the crosshair, dealing AoE damage around where the enemies landed.

Venari

Increase her damage slightly from 80 to 100 and improve the effectiveness of each posture. \

For example, make Attack allow her, on top of her ability to strike an enemy multiple times in one second, to chain attack multiple enemies in one second with little to no down time between activations, but only if multiple enemies in range. Protect should be fixed so Venari only seeks out and attacks targets that haven't been disarmed over ones that have as well as have innate damage redirection to nearby enemies, extending that buff to Khora as well. Heal should be buffed so the effect range is either twice as or three times as large than the current 5m and the heal amount is higher than 50 h/s or scaling to the Warframe's health, since the effect does not scale with mods.

Make mods like Swipe and Sharpened Claws apply automatically to all of Venari's special attacks, such as the above, as well as her normal attacks.

Make Venari automatically target and attack nearby enemies in any posture w/o needing you to tag them by hitting first, unlike normal Pet AI (unless she already does this, in which case disregard this).

Strangledome

Either increase the active cap on Strangledome from 2 or remove it altogether, since it has a duration. 

Placing the Strangledome should conform to the environment and Strangledomes placed next to each other should merge or connect to each other, adding on to each other's durations and increasing the vertex count across the web. 

Khora and Venari should also gain some form of boost from the Strangledome based on the amount of enemies caught inside of it at once. Something like a multiplicative damage boost or an amount of damage reduction, maybe based on Venari's stance, would make filling the Strangledome and not killing the enemies inside a viable strategy. It would also help compliment the innate defensive feature it has already, making caught enemies take friendly fire and be priority targets, plus it would make for an easy Augment idea to share the boosts with nearby allies.

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