Countries starting to make 'Lootbox' mechanics in game Illegal. Will this affect Warframe?

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

1 minute ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

I know i know, i'm just stating the OP's concerns, not mine.

Oh ok my bad.

[Shad0wWatcher]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)BigLithuanian said:

Oh ok my bad.

Its cool

[Syndrella]

17 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Curious to how Blizzard will handle this.

Me too because the Heartstone is essencialy live on this system if this ends then the game dies quickly or they need to add some skins or something like that what can keep the players interested in pay money.

[Ricknir]

Without detail in what laws they are even bringing in, who knows. 

YouTube click bait "Look boxes are illegal!!!" doesn't really say much and as far as I know, no law has been actually passed yet. 

I sure DE will look at anything that comes down the road. Anyway does Warframe even have "loot boxes"?

[Hypernaut1]

Personally, I think the issue is overblown. Game devs should have to be honest and transparent about drop chance and that's it. Some people actually like the rng of loot boxes. 

It wouldn't make sense to go after every paid for rng mechanic in games. They serve their purpose in some way.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Personally, I think the issue is overblown. Game devs should have to be honest and transparent about drop chance and that's it. Some people actually like the rng of loot boxes. 

Of course they like it. That is the problem. People who go to a casino, obviously likes to gamble as well. That doesn't mean it is a healthy practice or something that shouldn't be regulated.

[rune_me]

17 minutes ago, Donkey___R said:

Without detail in what laws they are even bringing in, who knows. 

YouTube click bait "Look boxes are illegal!!!" doesn't really say much and as far as I know, no law has been actually passed yet. 

I sure DE will look at anything that comes down the road. Anyway does Warframe even have "loot boxes"?

They are not changing any laws. They have ruled that loot boxes constitute gambling and that they therefor has to be regulated by the laws on gambling in Belgium. Those laws are already in place, so there's no need to make new laws or change old ones. And the ruling has already happened, so it's something that is already in place.

Of course it will have to be judged on a case by case basis. It's not like some legal system will now sit and watch through every single video game to find offenders. But if someone reports a game, it will be treated like any other report on illegal gambling and investigated. The 3 games mentioned as having been already investigated and deemed to contain illegal gambling in the form of loot boxes are Overwatch, Fifa 18 and CS:GO.

EDIT: The same is true in Netherlands, where they have already contacted several developers and given them to June 20th to remove loot boxes from their games or face consequences.

Edited April 26, 2018 by rune_me

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Of course they like it. That is the problem. People who go to a casino, obviously likes to gamble as well. That doesn't mean it is a healthy practice or something that shouldn't be regulated.

Not only gambling addicts like surprises 

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Not only gambling addicts like surprises 

Of course not. And not only alcoholics like to be drunk. But such things are still regulated by special laws exactly because they can lead to addiction. You need special permits to sell alcohol, or to run a casino, and there are strict laws on how old people can be before they are allowed to spend money on these things.

[Hypernaut1]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Of course not. And not only alcoholics like to be drunk. But such things are still regulated by special laws exactly because they can lead to addiction. You need special permits to sell alcohol, or to run a casino, and there are strict laws on how old people can be before they are allowed to spend money on these things.

So by that logic then, is all rng in a game is exploitive and needs to be regulated? 

[rune_me]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

So by that logic then, is all rng in a game is exploitive and needs to be regulated? 

Nah, that's not really what we are talking about. At least the rulings currently, only applies if it costs money.

[BrazilianJoe]

Mod packs are the only case of loot boxes purchaseable with platinum. 

The fact that they are a "bad purchase" and no one should ever buy them is irrelevant. 

They are loot boxes, and should go away. 

i have opened a thread about it preemptively back in january, before push came to shove in the lootgate controversy with SWBF2. 

 

DE would better be proactive and retire the mod pack purchases - or rework them with 100% predictable, guaranteed mods. 

 

"Buy all 4 dual stat mods (rifle, shotgun, secondary, melee) of element X for Y platinum!" (unranked) 

"Buy all 3 base damage mods - Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point - for a quicker boost to your arsenal!" (unranked)

"Buy legendary cores for Z platinum!"

Make a clear statement that these mods can be hunted in-game, but can be purchased for instant gratification.

I would respect that for new players, just don't be too greedy in the plat cost.
 

Edited April 26, 2018 by BrazilianJoe

[NeithanDiniem]

5 hours ago, Pent_ said:

I certainly hope they don't make lootboxes illegal. Since when did the government get to decide what's allowed in games?

Since the rating system was devised? Quite a lot of things have been banned in many countries actually.

[jmthebigman]

1 hour ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Really? Lootboxes are illegal in the Netherlands? I honestly didn't even know that, and i live there

Didnt hear about it either till I googled it and I watch several news sites daily so it must have slipped.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2228041-populaire-games-overtreden-gokregels.html <<<< The Dutch's National news broadcasting network like the british BBC... but actually waaaaay worse.

[Naul_]

Warframe is also Free to Play rather than Pay to Play like Overwatch and Starwars. Warframe needs to earn money somehow. Besides DE doesn't want to implement a loot system and they made that clear with the Kubrow prints. Someone spent hundreds of dollars rolling for the lotus kubrow print and when DE realized that they implemented something else (tbh I don't know what they made different).

 

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, LingLingAsian said:

Warframe is also Free to Play rather than Pay to Play like Overwatch and Starwars. Warframe needs to earn money somehow.

Free 2 Play doesn't change anything, though. The law applies equally to everyone (well, ideally - in real life probably not). You can't ignore a country's laws on gambling just because your game is free to play.

[Noabettiet]

Funny enough, warframe is an good example as how you don't really need them to make a game successful.

They took their time, but it caught on. After the controversies over what happened, it was about time it got regulated. Won't name any names here, but there were pretty sketchy games using their mechanics to pressure the player base into a life of (lootbox) gambling. Like actual manipulation kind of sketchy.

[ghoffman1928]

this will not effect warframe in anyway. the two things in question (relic and mod pack) do not cost real money, they cost platinum. Platinum is a tradable commodity, which means you don't actually have to pay real money to get the platinum to pay for relic or mod packs. 

[rune_me]

14 minutes ago, ghoffman1928 said:

this will not effect warframe in anyway. the two things in question (relic and mod pack) do not cost real money, they cost platinum. Platinum is a tradable commodity, which means you don't actually have to pay real money to get the platinum to pay for relic or mod packs. 

As long as you can buy it for real money as well, it qualifies and is definitely an issue. That you don't have to don't mean a thing.

Fifa 18 has coins you need to open packs. You can buy them. Or you can earn them in game. And Fifa 18 has already been declared gambling in Belgium. So being able to earn platinum in game doesn't give a free pass.

Edited April 26, 2018 by rune_me

[tnccs215]

7 hours ago, Pent_ said:

I'm not saying I like lootboxes at all, but where do we draw the line? What if a game has no microtransactions yet features a lootbox mechanic? It's still gambling, but not gambling money. Will this affect CS:GO and Dota 2? Two giant games with huge lootbox systems? Is it okay if it's cosmetic?

It's not OK if it features transactions of real money that feature uncertainty in its outcome - regardless of whether the money is used directly or indirectly (such as through conversion to "premium currency"). 

In short, if it's gambling . 

Games have gone under the radar for a long time because the good they offer where digital, and you supposedly always got something (whether it had the value you entered or not would be irrelevant). However, given that it features the same psychological tricks and risks as gambling, involves real life monetary resources, and perhaps most of all, is much more accessible to immature children and people, loot boxes are both a dubiously ethical profit model and, more importantly, an health hazard, where the already well documented risks of gambling all apply. 

So the line is drawn in the moment there is any luck - and, more importantly, algorithm defined luck - involved. Which basically means loot boxes. 

Things such as direct micro transactions, in which you know what you'll get once you pay for it, are pretty much save. 

 

I imagine Warframe will be pretty much exempt from this - save for things like Mod Packs which, frankly, aren't worth the prize anyway - and I've never known anyone who actually bought one. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by tnccs215

[tnccs215]

27 minutes ago, ghoffman1928 said:

this will not effect warframe in anyway. the two things in question (relic and mod pack) do not cost real money, they cost platinum. Platinum is a tradable commodity, which means you don't actually have to pay real money to get the platinum to pay for relic or mod packs. 

The same applies to the vast majority of games featuring loot boxes. Indeed, one of the reason they've gone so long with no legislation is because of that reasoning. 

However, given the enormous incidents of people loosing vast sums of money due to addiction equal in every way to that of gambling , pretending that money you buy with real money is a commodity, and not a conversion, is no longer something that flies very far. 

[Sitchrea]

7 hours ago, Pent_ said:

I certainly hope they don't make lootboxes illegal. Since when did the government get to decide what's allowed in games?

Spotted the Libertarian. Taxation is theft!

[tnccs215]

Just now, Sitchrea said:

Spotted the Libertarian. Taxation is theft!

This is problematic and unwarranted. 

[Sitchrea]

Just now, tnccs215 said:

This is problematic and unwarranted. 

...?

[Gharsan]

This is a bigger issue than one may think, especially in Asia and/or games made in Asia (especially those from China/Korea).

You think farming for your 0.2% mod over and over again in Warframe was bad?

Well guess what, some games have OP items that have 2% of dropping ONLY from lootboxes that you can only get with real money.

Some people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them. Recently, a few gaming developers were caught disclosing wrong drop chance for these "premium" items. It's getting into this point of real-life gambling business but with lack of transparency, the domain that needs some sort of control as a whole.

It's really something that governments should intervene tbh.

 

That being said I don't think DE is that much related to the issue. You can pretty much get everything you want for free if you can grind. I am pretty sure that this "lootbox" that this click-baity Youtube video mentions refers to the ones that 1. you can only aquire through cash with low probability and 2. have significant impacts on gameplay.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Gharsan
Grammer