Countries starting to make 'Lootbox' mechanics in game Illegal. Will this affect Warframe?

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

No, the ESA and the ESRB are regulatory bodies, that doesn't exclude them from being under the watchful eye of the government. Since the regulatory bodies did not regulate the surge in gambling exploits, the government has all the right in the world to slap them down and enforce those regulations. Glad they do too, because the ESA and ESRB are just hives of scum and villainy.

OT: I really don't think anyone will miss the mod packs, so, DE can easily do away with them and be on the safe side of the law again.

I'm just saying if we open this door it'll be hard to close it. Government makes all lootboxes illegal, fine. It'll cripple the steam economy of CS:GO and Dota 2, as well other games. What's stopping the government from saying "well now any game that has too much violence is against the law." It's a slippery slope to prevent kids from gambling, which should be the responsibility of the parents, not the government. Also, does anyone have any sources that shows a spike in gambling kids? I haven't looked but I'm curious if any legitimate studies have been done.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Ksaero said:

It has to be a direct purchase for real money, right? PA's, PV's, platinum, skins are the only things you can buy for real money and there's no gambling.

Pretty sure it extends to things you can buy for plat. Since plat can be bought for real money, it becomes an extension of actual currency. 

Note, I said "pretty sure", not "100% sure".

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

It won't effect Warframe because you don't pay for it and therefore doesn't count as gambling. Also DE doesn't lock majority of content behind a paywall with random chance at getting what you want. You buy it and you get it.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

3 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

I'm just saying if we open this door it'll be hard to close it. Government makes all lootboxes illegal, fine. It'll cripple the steam economy of CS:GO and Dota 2, as well other games. What's stopping the government from saying "well now any game that has too much violence is against the law." It's a slippery slope to prevent kids from gambling, which should be the responsibility of the parents, not the government. Also, does anyone have any sources that shows a spike in gambling kids? I haven't looked but I'm curious if any legitimate studies have been done.

If the government went and made all lootboxes illegal for a good reason, assuming that good reason is proven, then is crippling a game's economy bad? "Oh no, a popular game's proven to be bad and or illegal economy is getting harmed!" is not a good thing to say. I'm not saying all lootboxes are bad, I'm saying if there were proof of it and the government acted, then those games taking a hit is fine. At least from an outside point of view, it wouldn't be fine to fans but that doesn't mean doing it is a bad thing. Again, assuming they could prove all the content they were striking down on deserved it.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

I'm just saying if we open this door it'll be hard to close it. Government makes all lootboxes illegal, fine. It'll cripple the steam economy of CS:GO and Dota 2, as well other games. What's stopping the government from saying "well now any game that has too much violence is against the law."

There's nothing stopping them. There's already nothing stopping them. If a government can agree on a law to regulate the violence in video games, and get that law passed, then violence in video games will be regulated. That's already the case now. Regulating loot boxes won't change that, one way or another.

[Gabbynaru]

Just now, Pent_ said:

I'm just saying if we open this door it'll be hard to close it. Government makes all lootboxes illegal, fine. It'll cripple the steam economy of CS:GO and Dota 2, as well other games. What's stopping the government from saying "well now any game that has too much violence is against the law." It's a slippery slope to prevent kids from gambling, which should be the responsibility of the parents, not the government. Also, does anyone have any sources that shows a spike in gambling kids? I haven't looked but I'm curious if any legitimate studies have been done.

No, dude, gambling is constantly regulated by the government, especially in the USA, where I believe it is downright illegal with a few exceptions. This is just the goverment catching up to technology and making them face the facts that casinos have been under regulations for a long, long time, and video game companies cannot expect to just skirt those laws like this.

As for violence in video games... Nah, that will actually be bad for everyone, not just the gaming industry. If they ever even consider employing an anti-violent media law, that will not only affect gaming, it will affect all media, and I doubt anyone will stand for such a nonsensical law. Gambling is a major health concern with proven medical research to back it up. Violent video games leading to violence in real life has no such research proving it. In fact, all the research has proven so far is that video games have an opposite effect . So without actual backup for such claims, a law like that will never pass. Unless tyranny ensues, in which case, the USA will have worse things to be concerned about.

[xXDeadsinxX]

It won’t affect Warframe or Digital Extremes since the game doesn’t have any type of lootboxes. Relics are not lootboxes because you can farm them for free if you so choose to, case closed.

Edited April 26, 2018 by xXDeadsinxX

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

There's nothing stopping them. There's already nothing stopping them. If a government can agree on a law to regulate the violence in video games, and get that law passed, then violence in video games will be regulated. That's already the case now. Regulating loot boxes won't change that, one way or another.

Well no, the citizens can stop them. Even if it's something as innocuous as video games enough of an outcry can cause them to renege.

 

1 minute ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

If the government went and made all lootboxes illegal for a good reason, assuming that good reason is proven, then is crippling a game's economy bad? "Oh no, a popular game's proven to be bad and or illegal economy is getting harmed!" is not a good thing to say. I'm not saying all lootboxes are bad, I'm saying if there were proof of it and the government acted, then those games taking a hit is fine. At least from an outside point of view, it wouldn't be fine to fans but that doesn't mean doing it is a bad thing. Again, assuming they could prove all the content they were striking down on deserved it.

but that's the thing, how do you determine what's lawful and what isn't? I know people with 30k+ steam inventories they've gotten over the years. Do we just take that away now that the government swoops in and says "hey, this is illegal now." It's just so hard to provide proof of something like this.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

If worse comes to worse they'll just remove dragon mod packs and be done with it. No, they're still loot boxes because laws don't care how ethical something is, or what the context of the gambling mechanic is, but merely if it fulfills the set criteria of the definition.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

I don't determine what's lawful and what isn't. The people that do, I hope, are people who actually know what should and shouldn't be considered that way, and will attempt to prove it. Knowing how the world works, I can't say that's necessarily true, but it is what it is. And yes, if the government says "Hey y'all that shizz illegal" then swooping in and removing the illegal things is pretty much a given. If you work for something, and that something turns out to be or is later deemed illegal, you probably lose that thing, sorry to say.

[Kronxito]

Warframe does not have lootboxes behind a real money wall.  When you buy something, you know exactly what you are buying, i mean, it is not random stuff.

The only think that would match with lootbox definition are mod packs (like dragon mod pack, for instance). They may have to remove it. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by DP_KRoM

[Hypernaut1]

I think too many people confuse rng=lootbox. It's not that simple. 

No, the government is not going to get rid of rng from videogames.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Pent_ said:

Well no, the citizens can stop them. Even if it's something as innocuous as video games enough of an outcry can cause them to renege.

Of course. At least in a democracy. That's kind of the point with a democracy. If you don't like what a politician is doing or saying, you vote for someone else. Public opinions is the biggest superpower in the world. That's why loot boxes are now being scrutinized. Not because some politician was concerned about it, but because public opinions turned against them and started demanding that someone looked into it.

[SneakyErvin]

No even if relics were to be considered as lootboxes when bought for plat they still guarantee you valueble loot that can be traded to others to return the plat you spent on them.

Even if you arent after something like say Mirage and buy relics you still earn 60-70p if you get her parts. Newer frames like Zephyr lets you get even more if you get dupes etc.

[rune_me]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

No even if relics were to be considered as lootboxes when bought for plat they still guarantee you valueble loot that can be traded to others to return the plat you spent on them.

Even if you arent after something like say Mirage and buy relics you still earn 60-70p if you get her parts. Newer frames like Zephyr lets you get even more if you get dupes etc.

That's kind of the definition of gambling, though. Spend currency to get a random amount of currency back, but you don't know how much. Maybe it's only 20p, or maybe you get lucky and get a new prime part and you get more.

[Sqecmi]

41 минуту назад, Thirdofherne сказал:

pparently the Netherlands and Belgium have made randomised 'Lootbox' mechanics in games illegal. With other countries likely to follow suit.

apparently it's an empty hype from those who dont know how exactly eu legislation functions.

 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

That's kind of the definition of gambling, though. Spend currency to get a random amount of currency back, but you don't know how much. Maybe it's only 20p, or maybe you get lucky and get a new prime part and you get more.

But wouldnt the true definition of gamble have a "true loss" outcome aswell? I've never seen a gamble system where you always win something, there is always the chance to lose. With relic boxes that would like if we could get fieldron sample or similar along with 1k credits or something. That would be of litterally no value. But as it is now, we always win. People arent always after the gold reward in relics, we have to keep that in mind. Would it be loss for a person getting the gold item when he really needs the bronze? Not really because he could likely trade that gold for all the other pieces he needs.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But wouldnt the true definition of gamble have a "true loss" outcome aswell? I've never seen a gamble system where you always win something, there is always the chance to lose. With relic boxes that would like if we could get fieldron sample or similar along with 1k credits or something. That would be of litterally no value. But as it is now, we always win. People arent always after the gold reward in relics, we have to keep that in mind. Would it be loss for a person getting the gold item when he really needs the bronze? Not really because he could likely trade that gold for all the other pieces he needs.

Lot's of gambling system has "a prize every time" and guaranteed wins. It's just that what you are most likely to win isn't as valuable as what you spend.

I still don't think relics will be considered real gambling, because you farm them in game. At most, the relic-packs bought with plat is the only issue.

[Jim22]

this dosnt affect warframe what was the point of this thread?

Edited April 26, 2018 by Jim22

[Thirdofherne]

2 minutes ago, Jim22 said:

this dosnt affect warframe what was the point of this thread?

Yay. Jim has spoken. Discussion over friends, DE can rest easy.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Thank you almighty Jim for your benevolence. Jim be praised.

Edited April 26, 2018 by CoolDudeMcCool
i cnat sple

[Tsukinoki]

54 minutes ago, Pent_ said:

I'm not saying I like lootboxes at all, but where do we draw the line? What if a game has no microtransactions yet features a lootbox mechanic? It's still gambling, but not gambling money. Will this affect CS:GO and Dota 2? Two giant games with huge lootbox systems? Is it okay if it's cosmetic?

Right now the governments are going after paid lootboxes not earned lootboxes.
They don't really care about lootboxes that you can earn by playing the game and progressing.
What they care about are lootboxes where you pay real money for a chance to get something.  If you can earn lootboxes and trade the items within them for real money?  Its not gambling as you didn't pay for the lootboxes.

And cosmetic only gambling is still gambling.  Its really no different than P2W lootboxes.

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But wouldnt the true definition of gamble have a "true loss" outcome aswell? I've never seen a gamble system where you always win something, there is always the chance to lose. 

Please define "lose"
Because by that "true loss" definition I can create a slot machine that will always pay out one penny if the person didn't roll a win and therefore it's not gambling!  After all you always get something.

There are tons of gambling systems that have a guaranteed reward, but are still considered gambling.  Largely because the "guaranteed rewards" are not worth anywhere near what you paid in order to gamble so still represent a "loss".

In a lootbox system say you get 34 of the exact same cosmetic.  Utterly useless to you.  Isn't that a "loss"?  Especially in some games where you can't trade or do anything with the cosmetic?
Or say in a character lootbox you keep getting the same characters over and over again.  Since you can't unlock a character more than once isn't that a loss as you didn't gain anything from the box?

That's the problem with the statement of "But is it really gambling if you always get something?"  By completely ignorring that the "something" can largely be utterly worthless or useless meaning that you still lost.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[StinkyPygmy]

Considering literally the only Loot boxes we have as such being the mod packs, then ya , WF will be fine.

Edited April 26, 2018 by StinkyPygmy

[Jim22]

6 minutes ago, Thirdofherne said:

Yay. Jim has spoken. Discussion over friends, DE can rest easy.

ok it was a joke but i dont think relic packs are a lootbox mechanic because your not spending money you are spending platnum that you can get from other players and you can also buy if you want to, also who buys relic packs?

[Oreades]

Eh with how vestigial the two(?) items that Warframe has that actually classify as loot boxes, very few people would even notice if they vanished from the market tomorrow. 

Most of the "problem" with loot boxes comes with games for whom their market is exclusively loot boxes or very close to it.

So how will it effect Warframe........ either way DE goes I doubt people by and large will care/notice.