How is this not Archwing 2.0? and Why wouldn't it suffer the same fate?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Cargan2016 said:

didnt say it had.  said i see it happening with railjack when it finnaly comes out

so there was no precedent then. Ok.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

42 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Sad that some people think gameplay is only fun if they get cool rewards for it. 

 Reward and gameplay go hand in hand. One is always worse without the other. In nature, if you waste too much energy without a legitimate reason, you don't last very long: humans tick based on effort-reward mechanics; the whole world was built by dragging people with a carrot on a stick. Even charity is done for self-gratification. Why the hell would you do anything without a reward - especially grind a gameplay that becomes boring and downright toxic after a couple repeats (yes, I'm looking at you, whoever designed Kuva missions)?

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Does it matter if hes an old bitter saltmine

You just had to drive it deeper, didn't ya? xD

Edited July 9, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Kothophed]

Welp, AperoBelta, guess you've won.  I guess I'll have to go back to having fun playing a game I like, while you get to argue with strangers for days about something you don't enjoy anymore.  Great are the spoils of your victory /s.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 minutes ago, Kothophed said:

Welp, AperoBelta, guess you've won.  I guess I'll have to go back to having fun playing a game I like, while you get to argue with strangers for days about something you don't enjoy anymore.  Great are the spoils of your victory /s.

 Do I strike you as a person who had hoped to win something here? Did this thread change your mind? Did it make you understand something new or reevaluate your outlook... on anything? What did I win exactly?

 All I did was share my opinion on the matter and hear people out.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it all depends on how DE handle the controls and such. there is a chance that it could end up being like Archwing, but I think the grander scale of the space battles and the need for co-op will be enough to give this mode some real steam. the Railjacks will also be fully customizable, even the stats of it, and intertwining it wit fashionframe is a great way to keep it going. on the surface, this looks like it has a much better chance of standing on it's own than Archwing ever did. but only time will tell.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

  Hide contents

 

I probably missed a few. Scanned this thread for words "hope", "faith" and "believe". Make what you may out of it.

And what was the point of this.  Nevermind, don't answer.  I just don't feel like having my brain cells die from reading another asinine response.  

[Heiven]

32 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 All I did was share my opinion on the matter and hear people out. 

For a person who shares A opinion you do argue a lot about how everyone should not expect anything good of the future updates because of the current trend like AW,Kuva and the Raids.Wich is understandable but to be this much negative about every thing new in these updates is a bit too much,dont you think so?!

Yes the railjack system does feel like what AW should have been at day 1 plus some on top of it but we just have to wait and see at this point,since it was just revealed.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

33 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

And what was the point of this.  Nevermind, don't answer.  I just don't feel like having my brain cells die from reading another asinine response.  

This was so pointless, what you just said.

28 minutes ago, Heiven said:

For a person who shares A opinion you do argue a lot about how everyone should not expect anything good of the future updates because of the current trend like AW,Kuva and the Raids.Wich is understandable but to be this much negative about every thing new in these updates is a bit too much,dont you think so?!

Yes the railjack system does feel like what AW should have been at day 1 plus some on top of it but we just have to wait and see at this point,since it was just revealed.

 You say it as if arguing is a bad thing, and we should all be telepathically on the same page by default. Arguing is a good thing. Sharing opinions is a good thing. And if you notice, we're on a forum - an online platform that literally has no other purpose over than for people to share their opinions and argue with one another. And "negative" is such a relative term. For me, for example, negativity is expressed when people ask me to basically "stfu and leave", completely ignoring everything I have to say; or constantly repeat the same old pseudo-positive and pseudo-hopeful nonsense over and over again. I consider it toxic. But even then, I'm used to it, I can still have a conversation with people like that, if they're willing to have a conversation with me.
 Regarding the expectations: I cannot possibly take your delu... beliefs away from you. I'm just a grain of salt. Small and insignificant. I'm not enough to sway anybody, if they don't already have it in them to be swayed.

 And I say that we don't have to "wait and see", and waste who knows how much time in anticipation, of something that's unlikely to deliver for many reasons I mentioned above in the thread.
 To brainstorm this was the whole point.

Edited July 9, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Evanescent]

>actual co-ordination

>actual roles that need to be managed

>exciting visual and gameplay elements

>proper fleshed out flight mode

If we make it have good scaling and rewards it's set.

The problem with archwing was that progress in main game didn't carry over to archwing, and archwing progress didn't carry over to main game. Given the player disinterest that followed it became not worth it to continue working on it.

Railjack could even revive archwing and give it a purposem, which I am all for.

[Rakosta_Kai]

DE doesn't have the best of track records with alternate gameplay scenarios and Railjack definitely fits that mold.

But...It's the natural extension of a number of different -previously failed/failing or forgotten- modes and there are a number of games that employ the style Railjack is hinting at being.

It's a mode DE is going to have to be prepared to iterate on and tune a great deal for it to work and I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be important for the story narrative long term.

Put simply... It's got possibilities.  

Sure, it could wind up being Sharkwing....But it could also wind up being great too. 

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Sad that some people think gameplay is only fun if they get cool rewards for it. 

Gameplay can be fun on its own. But in a looter, bad gameplay can still be worthwhile if the rewards are unique. You just have to suffer through it, to get the good rewards that will make the game more fun to play.

The bug-standard Warframe experience - jump into a 2-8 minute mission, parkour through it while shooting things - is amazingly fun and I don't care about the rewards. I am even one of the few people who really like onslaught, because it's just more of the same: see how many waves you can go while utilizing the parkour system and your builds. Almost everything else in Warframe is, in my opinion, pretty horrible and not fun at all, and that has nothing to do with the rewards. Archwing is terrible, fishing and mining is beyond tedious, bounties on PoE I hate (everything about PoE, except tridolon hunting, is horrible).

I fell in love with the simple mission-based model of Warframe. All these tacked on game modes just takes away from that experience and makes the game a lot less fun. The only reason at all to play them, is for the rewards you need, all of which will make the base gameplay even more enjoyable.

All of this is just my opinion, of course. I know for a fact that there are people who loves archwing. And many people who hate onslaught. So your millage may vary.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

11 hours ago, WindigoTG said:

And how often do you do that?

Even the Arsewing is enjoyable once in a blue Lua for a change of pace. But it doesn't make it any more fun to play somewhat regularly.

At least once a year, there are plenty of other classics I jump back to throughout the year also. 

I hated Archwing until I finally invested into mods, so much better. They literally are Warframes with different movement & abilities. Odanata definitely needs a upgrade, the missions themselves need polishing, but the small hallways are terrible when your going way to fast, & to think there is a speed mod.

Soloing Jordace Golem or doing 90%+ of the damage is pretty funny though.

[IntheCoconut]

I have my healthy dose of skepticism and have checked my hype levels, and I've expressed my concerns about this upcoming content. I also wanted to come back here and explain something else.

Even if the game doesn't match the idealized fantasy of how I hope and dream this new content plays out, I still find the game enjoyable. Even if Venus and Railjack don't deliver on the hype I've self-constructed, I will still enjoy the content.

I  guess my point is, if you don't enjoy Warframe, and if you aren't looking forward to the new content, then what do you want? I don't mean to propose this question in a cynical way, or to prove a point. I am genuinely asking what, in your mind, would get you excited and interested in playing Warframe?

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, IntheCoconut said:

I  guess my point is, if you don't enjoy Warframe, and if you aren't looking forward to the new content, then what do you want? I don't mean to propose this question in a cynical way, or to prove a point. I am genuinely asking what, in your mind, would get you excited and interested in playing Warframe?

The bigger questions (to me) that spring to mind for the person who admittedly doesn't like Warframe and isn't looking forward to the new content all have "Why" in them.

Why don't you like Warframe?

If you played Warframe and stopped...Why?

Why are you complaining about Warframe if you don't like it?

We live in a strange world now where folks can't simply say, "It's not for me..." and then move on to other things instead. That thing(whatever it is) has to be changed to meet the dissenter's expectations or it's an affront to all humanity and deserves every pox you can apply to it, it's cow, and it's whole family.

Not meaning to correct you @IntheCoconut, those are the questions that leap out at me though.

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

19 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I  guess my point is, if you don't enjoy Warframe, and if you aren't looking forward to the new content, then what do you want? I don't mean to propose this question in a cynical way, or to prove a point. I am genuinely asking what, in your mind, would get you excited and interested in playing Warframe?

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

-snip-

 Focus on what made Warframe good in the first place; and continuous gameplay with rewards that actually matter in the context of the game. Ignorance is bliss, hah, I just realized how hypocritical I am on the matter; but I would actually love to forget about all the slot machine mechanics all the manipulation schemes that kept me in the game for so long - not to see them go, but to forget that they exist and geniunely enjoy the game. My biggest quarrel with the current Warframe isn't that it leeched 2000 hours of my life; but that it ditched the gameplay I used to love - the endless missions, T3-T4 survivals and sabotage in particular; without offering anything to replace them. 
 As of right now, there isn't a single mission worth playing (rewards) in the entire game that would capitalize on the maxed out gear and mods players are supposed to collect over the playthrough. Warframe is a game with vast and diverse modding and gear system, that doesn't utilize that system in any way shape or form. The only game mode that even remotely offers a glimpse into what Warframes are capable of is Sorties, and sorties are 15 minutes of gameplay locked behind a 24 hour timer lock.
 So you ask me what I want? I want a fleshed out core gameplay - of which Warframe is entirely lacking at present.

Edited July 9, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Pyrain]

@AperoBeltaTwo. How bout we all just wait and see what Codename: Railjack actually IS rather than projecting your feelings about past mechanics on to other mechanics that haven't been released yet and won't be for a while and then try to drag the rest of us along with you.  I'm sorry that you are butthurt that they took your toys away, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with you.  Quite honestly, it people like you that ruin the game for others, so please keep your hollow, uninformed opinions to yourself.

Ok, now that that's delt with, I'm excited about Railjack.  Like others have mentioned, this has a lot of promise.  What has me excited is that this will necessitate co-op play.  For years, all we've had is a squad of 4 running around doing there own thing with the exception of reviving fallen shade mates, or at least that has been my experience.  If this same style of play were to be done in a Railjack mission, you would fail vary quickly from the looks of things.   I can also see this being clan related in some way, and I also agree that this may be included in a new raid/trial system.  Anywho, that's just my two cense worth.   

Edited July 9, 2018 by Pyrain

[Gnlstorm]

Dun make any bad comment before the real deal released and dun spread your negative mind to other... Hype is right and let them be dun spoil the happy moment.. 

[Gnlstorm]

On 2018-07-08 at 9:12 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Because I've already seen a flashy looking system with poor rewards and a ton of empty nodes that nobody plays. Starchart. 

Oh, and don't waste your breath with "leave if you don't like something," I don't play warframe anymore.

please quit warframe and dun spread negative at here... I believe what we dislike most is somoene like you...

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

51 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

DE doesn't have the best of track records with alternate gameplay scenarios and Railjack definitely fits that mold.

But...It's the natural extension of a number of different -previously failed/failing or forgotten- modes and there are a number of games that employ the style Railjack is hinting at being.

It's a mode DE is going to have to be prepared to iterate on and tune a great deal for it to work and I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be important for the story narrative long term.

Put simply... It's got possibilities.  

Sure, it could wind up being Sharkwing....But it could also wind up being great too. 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Focus on what made Warframe good in the first place; and continuous gameplay with rewards that actually matter in the context of the game.

...Then simply do that... None of that stuff has been removed and this game has never been particularly rewarding.

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

My biggest quarrel with the current Warframe isn't that it leeched 2000 hours of my life; but that it ditched the gameplay I used to love - the endless missions, T3-T4 survivals and sabotage in particular; without offering anything to replace them. 

...Those things never left. The reward structure merely changed.

6 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

As of right now, there isn't a single mission worth playing (rewards) in the entire game that would capitalize on the maxed out gear and mods players are supposed to collect over the playthrough. Warframe is a game with vast and diverse modding and gear system, that doesn't utilize that system in any way shape or form. The only game mode that even remotely offers a glimpse into what Warframes are capable of is Sorties, and sorties are 15 minutes of gameplay locked behind a 24 hour timer lock.

There never has been a single game mode that fully (or even remotely) capitalized on maxed out gear in this game... Sorties included. Onslaught probably comes closest but I haven't messed with it personally.

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

So you ask me what I want?

That was @IntheCoconut I think.

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I want gameplay: of which Warframe is entirely lacking right now.

To me, it sounds more like you want a balance of Risk vs Rewards for the gameplay and this game hasn't had that since they allowed mods to be shared between items imo. 

It's not an unfair ask, but what exists in game now (scarcity as a form of content) has been the norm for this game for a number of years now. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

24 minutes ago, Pyrain said:

@AperoBeltaTwo. How bout we all just wait and see what Codename: Railjack actually IS rather than projecting your feelings about past mechanics on to other mechanics that haven't been released yet and won't be for a while and then try to drag the rest of us along with you.  I'm sorry that you are butthurt that they took your toys away, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with you.  Quite honestly, it people like you that ruin the game for others, so please keep your hollow, uninformed opinions to yourself.

 Same thing was said a billion times about PoE. It turned out exactly what I predicted it to be, despite hoping for the best. You don't need to wait half-a-year to predict what's it gonna be like. We've seen it all - if not in Warframe, in other games (what was that flying ship game again?). It's nothing new. There's nothing to "wait and see", we've already seen it.

24 minutes ago, Pyrain said:

What has me excited is that this will necessitate co-op play.

 People repeated this many times in the thread; but I don't get what exactly is so good about "coop gameplay"? It's an old gimmick from mid 2000s when every other game came out with a COOP function strapped onto it. But COOP forces you to rely on other people to play well and properly, and not hold you back or mess with your enjoyment in any way. That rarely happens even when you play with your friends, least in a random team from que or recruiting chat. I don't understand exactly, what miracles do people expect from coop gameplay in this particular case? Two tenno opening one door is COOP - it has no other purpose over than to slow the mission down to a complete halt, especially when your other teammates have wandered in some random direction or afk completely. Is that the kind of excitement you expect? Cause I can assure you if mission success is gonna depend on this coop element, you'll lose a lot of hair. Especially playing in random que.
 And if you only play with clanmates\friends that means your choice of missions would have to depend on their online; which is, congratulations if that's what you want.

Edited July 9, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

9 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

That was @IntheCoconut I think.

I added your quote to the post cause you asked the same thing as him. -_-

[rune_me]

12 minutes ago, Gnlstorm said:

please quit warframe and dun spread negative at here... I believe what we dislike most is somoene like you...

Stop with the "we". You believe wrong. You don't speak for the rest of us. You are the one who "dislike" and spread negativity and are being toxic towards other people on this forum, just because they don't share your opinion.

[Lance_Lionroar]

Jeez, and I thought I was a depressing guy. Alright, I'll just ask you this.

Can you go ahead and make a list of what would make you happy? You seem to have one objective with this thread, which is to shoot down every positive idea or thought somebody comes up with. I know it's hard for someone like you, but baby steps yeah?

Show us your image of a perfected Waframe with no "Archwing 2.0", and whatever else is wrong with the game.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I added your quote to the post cause you asked the same thing as him. -_-

I actually don't care about what a player like you wants and my post stated that pretty well (no offense).

My questions revolve around Why a player stopped playing and Why they would find cause to still complain... The differences between the two are rather distinct in this case.

For example, Your direct complaints revolve around lacking challenge and lost rewards but you are complaining about a game-mode without relevant information for either one. 

Past history supports a need for moderated expectations for certain...But even with the highest of expectations met, you still wouldn't get what you want.

This game isn't particularly rewarding.

Challenge for the game is typically set fairly low.

If you have ~2k hours of time in this game it's probably not news to you though.

...Which puts us back at the question of why.