Self-Revive system.

[Elenortirie]

7 minutes ago, Eidolon_Slayer said:

>It's never happened to me before therefore OP is wrong

>it happens to me therefore it must be happening to everyone

two can play this game ya know, and by just looking at the comments in this thread it seems you're the only one in here who claims it being common occurence.

and it still doesn't change the fact that idea of not only going back to daily revives system, but with more severe limitations than the original one is trash, and claiming that system existing in the first place is making people uncooperative is wrong assumption. 

 

PS. and then I'd actually bet that all of your experiences with people leaving you to bleed out, would be not cases of peopel leaving you out because "you are supposed to do iton yoru own" but instead a cases of you halwayy heroing two maps away of your team expecting everyone to ditch whatever they were doing just to rez you.....

Edited July 20, 2018 by Elenortirie

[Voltage]

33 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

I have no idea what game is OP playing but it is for sure not the same warframe that I do?

why?

that's why.

Because as far as my decent chunk of hours in warframe goes the only case when someone gets to use revive is when:

A) he did it automatically on his own before rest even has chance to react to him dying

B) rest of the team is actually bound in scenario (and/or he's far enougth away) where going out to revive that guy over there puts mission success at jeopardy.

for example when it's defence and objective is being swarmed by hugeload of high level enemies and the halway hero got downed on the edge of the map - in which case defending the objective takes obvious priority.

as for suggestion itself - it's trash, and based on all wrong assumptions.

In my experiences, people just insta revive as Arcanes are easier to obtain which gives more access to 6 revives per mission, and there is no risk or consequence of dying. While paying platinum was horrible for more revives back in the day, it made you conscious of what you were doing instead of running around as a headless chicken with a Scoliac and no health/armor mods.

If the suggestion is so trash, do you have any constructive feedback for the revive system (positive or negative)? All I see is a "I don't have a problem with it, so your suggestion is worthless to me" comment.

7 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

>it happens to me therefore it must be happening to everyone

two can play this game ya know, and by just looking at the comments in this thread it seems you're the only one in here who claims it being common occurence.

and it still doesn't change the fact that idea of not only going back to daily revives system, but with more severe limitations than the original one is trash, and claiming that system existing in the first place is making people uncooperative is wrong assumption. 

OP is using his experiences as a multi-year player to show how the revive system has impacted the game through his eyes. Your perspective is no more valuable or factual than his and vice versa.

The revive system is one of the driving forces behind the currently mindless gameplay mechanics. I have rarely seen someone use Vazarin given everyone holds down the "retry" key before the person with a unique focus school can reach them. Such a small change would completely change the game, and I feel it would be for the better. Forcing players to actually think about what they do in a mission is healthy to create more team cohesion and allow players to actually challenge difficulty instead of face-rolling with no drawbacks.

Edited July 20, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

and it still doesn't change the fact that idea of not only going back to daily revives system, but with more severe limitations than the original one is trash, and claiming that system existing in the first place is making people uncooperative is wrong assumption. 

Fact is, it's way too trivial compared to before. So much easier to stay alive. No care needed since all the non-endless missions you can revive yourself through. And this isn't even accounting arcanes, sacrifice mod or potential teammates that get you up. Now this isn't based on "personal occurence" but rather on simple logic.

I don't wanna see warframe turn into dark souls. Nor do i want it to stay clicker heroes. Do you? Well, i'm of the opinion that it can't hurt to have a sense for achievement once in a while that isn't just RNG. Last but not least; The longer we stay on trivial game mechanics, the longer we'll have to wait for proper endgame content.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

3 hours ago, Oreades said:

Ugh this topic again.....

Yeah I thought this stopped months ago like a week after it came out.

[Elenortirie]

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

In my experiences, people just insta revive as Arcanes are easier to obtain which gives more access to 6 revives per mission, and there is no risk or consequence of dying. While paying platinum was horrible for more revives back in the day, it made you conscious of what you were doing instead of running around as a headless chicken with a Scoliac and no health/armor mods.

If the suggestion is so trash, do you have any constructive feedback for the revive system (positive or negative)? All I see is a "I don't have a problem with it, so your suggestion is worthless to me" comment.

OP is using his experiences as a multi-year player to show how the revive system has impacted the game through his eyes. Your perspective is no more valuable or factual than his and vice versa.

The revive system is one of the driving forces behind the currently mindless gameplay mechanics. I have never seen someone use Vazarin given everyone holds down the "retry" key before the person with a unique focus school can reach them. Such a small change would completely change the game, and I feel it would be for the better. Forcing players to actually think about what they do in a mission is healthy to create more team cohesion and allow players to actually challenge difficulty instead of face-rolling with no drawbacks.

1. there is consequence of self reviving: you pay for that revive with percentage of your earned affinity.

2. issue of scoliac runnes is more complex that revive system being a thing - big chunk of it is actually how damn effective it is. while I haven't used scoliac myself I have used similar build on secura lecta, and there is huge amounts of things you can get away with by spamming slide attack and staying on the move. You know, coptering was a thing back in the days when limited daily revives were still a thing.

3. System in it's current state is in good spot and cannot be blamed for what OP blames it for.

4. I am using multi-year player experience to evaluate OP's claim, and I find out that he's assumptions are wrong (assuming causation on corelation), his proposal as a hige step back in development of the game, and therefore - trash idea.

5. it may be one of the driving forces but if it is one, it is minor one. I have seen alot of vazarin users (especially trins on [rip] raids), and I see more people actually waiting to at least see if ressing them is feasible option before smashing self revive, so claim that "everyone holds down" the key before anyone can reach them is at best exaggeration.

6. is big % chunk of earned affinity is not enought to make one think about his action in a game oriented towards gaining as much of it as possible (leveling for MR, focus farming) then there isn't really much that could force them to do so. and to enforce that point I'd like to remind you that glassy halway heroes were a thing back in the days were you had only 4 revives a day an had to spend plat to restore them if you wanted/needed more.

7. There is alot of places in the game to "challenge difficulty instead of face-rolling with no drawbacks" even with the current revives system.

[Elenortirie]

15 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Fact is, it's way too trivial compared to before. So much easier to stay alive. No care needed since all the non-endless missions you can revive yourself through. And this isn't even accounting arcanes, sacrifice mod or potential teammates that get you up. Now this isn't based on "personal occurence" but rather on simple logic.

I don't wanna see warframe turn into dark souls. Nor do i want it to stay clicker heroes. Do you? Well, i'm of the opinion that it can't hurt to have a sense for achievement once in a while that isn't just RNG. Last but not least; The longer we stay on trivial game mechanics, the longer we'll have to wait for proper endgame content.

it is indeed much easier to stay alive on overal in the game as it is now, but not all of this is tied to revive system changes, claiming it being reliant only on this is oversimplification.

 

you are implying the game IS in it's current state "clicker heroes" in which I disagree. I'd also disagree on claim that "trivial game mechanics" are preventing ariival of "proper endgame content" - there is alot of games out there that are alot more trivial in it's mechanics than warframe ever will be, that does have "proper end-game content" in them. actually it may be easier to design such if mechanics you are relying on are simpler.

[(PSN)thowed]

I'll instantly revive myself on most cases because usually I died doing something stupid on my own part.  I also revive when I can if I see someone down.  If someone keeps dropping then they either brought the wrong equipment, aren't ready for that mission or was looking to be carried for the rewards.  All of those reasons are also anti co-op.  System is fine as it is.

[Oreades]

19 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

 I have rarely seen someone use Vazarin given everyone holds down the "retry" key before the person with a unique focus school can reach them.

Pretty sure the fact that people self revive isn't the driving factor behind the lower than average turnout for the Hufflepuff Vazarin school. 

[Voltage]

Just now, Oreades said:

Pretty sure the fact that people self revive isn't the driving factor behind the lower than average turnout for the Hufflepuff Vazarin school. 

No, but it makes the school even less useful as the revives from them don't stack and are barely used considering the spam of self revives.

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

it is indeed much easier to stay alive on overal in the game as it is now, but not all of this is tied to revive system changes, claiming it being reliant only on this is oversimplification.

I never said it's the only thing making this game easier. But it surely is a big cause for that.

[Elenortirie]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Pretty sure the fact that people self revive isn't the driving factor behind the lower than average turnout for the Hufflepuff Vazarin school. 

I'd say it's more complex than that.

people instantly self reviving (assuming it'd be most common behaviour, on which we could argue but neither of us in here has even remotely enought of data to be able to legitimately claim wether it is or not a case) would indeed lower some of the incentives to go for that school, but also there is more benefits of said school, and whole case of usage of the self-revive option is much more broader case: for example some people use it when their sentinel dies, I've ever seen people purposefully suiciding to recover carrier from his earlier death due to it not being capable of keeping up with AoE-fest that their warframe coudl easilly take.

 

5 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

I never said it's the only thing making this game easier. But it surely is a big cause for that.

indeed you didn't state it directly, but the context of your post and it's construction(*) made me understand that you were implying it, sorry for misunderstanding if that's the case.

(*)to be precise the mention of self reviving throught non-unfinite missions was 

[Eidolon_Slayer]

1 hour ago, Elenortirie said:

>it happens to me therefore it must be happening to everyone

two can play this game ya know, and by just looking at the comments in this thread it seems you're the only one in here who claims it being common occurence.

and it still doesn't change the fact that idea of not only going back to daily revives system, but with more severe limitations than the original one is trash, and claiming that system existing in the first place is making people uncooperative is wrong assumption. 

 

PS. and then I'd actually bet that all of your experiences with people leaving you to bleed out, would be not cases of peopel leaving you out because "you are supposed to do iton yoru own" but instead a cases of you halwayy heroing two maps away of your team expecting everyone to ditch whatever they were doing just to rez you.....

You definitely shouldn't visit a casino. The price we pay for a revive is nothing. Affinity is not worth much value and a cheap price given the vast variety of affinity farms. Death is cheap?  It should have more consequences. It shouldn't make us think that it's no big deal. It must be impactful enough to warrant necessity in a teammates revival.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Eidolon_Slayer

[Ghogiel]

Players seem more willing to revive you in todays WF then in the past when you only had 4 revives per day. So he's wrong in his bald assertion on what promotes team play.

But yeah I remember those glory days too. There was 100% more teabagging then because losing a revive on a frame might mean something if you were playing for a few hours. And it was cool that newbies had to spend plat to keep playing, because they die a lot more than people kitted out and don't have too many frames to run out of revives on

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Ghogiel

[Eidolon_Slayer]

18 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

Players seem more willing to revive you in todays WF then in the past when you only had 4 revives per day. So he's wrong in his bald assertion on what promotes team play.

But yeah I remember those glory days too. There was 100% more teabagging then because losing a revive on a frame might mean something if you were playing for a few hours. And it was cool that newbies had to spend plat to keep playing, because they die a lot more than people kitted out and don't have too many frames to run out of revives on

 

It has never changed.

[Ghogiel]

5 minutes ago, Eidolon_Slayer said:

It has never changed.

No

[thegreatAce21]

I am thankful that I didn't experienced the 4 revives per day with buy another revive with plat days, because if I'm a newbie I'll think that this game just want me to buy plat to play more. 

It's a rare case where there's a nearby friendly that doesn't want to revive me, usually they go hundreds of meters just to revive me. For Hydrolyst caps, people usually revive down members even those who are bugged and needed to die. The only time I'm seeing people exhausting their limit revive per game are sorties and Hydrolyst caps, and usually they're the "newbie" with the mission or the game itself. Overall, the current revive system gives you a carelessness, but with a limit. If you keep dying and exhausting your limit revive, you're or someone's doing it the wrong way.

[CryticalAce]

I can understand your stance, however, I disagree because when I farm with my friends (they are a much higher rank than me) I sometimes go down and need to be revived but they can't help so I need to revive myself. It keeps me in the game and allows them to keep their competitive edge by not having to come and get me everytime I go down.

 

Just my two cents! 😛

[Sabreracer]

This change was aimed at QoL for new players who are the ones most likely to be downed therefore the ones that are more likely to be punished by increasing the penalties for self reviving. 

Let us not forget being stuck in no powers mode that only gets cured by self reviving rather than being revived by team mates.

[Veridian]

I don't think suggestion is that bad, it's the angle at which OP wants to apply it that is off.

But... say we added 4-5 missions in which you can't self revive or can do it once, with some recurring events in them (E.G. often triggered lock down, stopping the team from rushing through), 100+lv mobs and a boss similar to Lephantis at the end, with lots of health, phases and everything with some primed mods/weapons/whatever not obtainable through other means and suddenly you have end game content.

 

All those revives do take away from the difficulty, but it should be as such for the most part of the game, the thing is, why cant we have both?

[Syln]

Someone got a samaritan syndrom and get denied  by self revive :3

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

I have a few peeves about the revive system. 

Nekros soul punch augment doesn't appear on the stats screen as a revive. 

People reviving right as I arrive to save them. 

And people more than capable of saving me (f*** you Frost you noob frame) standing there using their energy to chastise me in chat rather than move to do anything. Glad sentinel revives are a thing so I can hop back up to flip them off.

 

[Zerecas]

Yes, make Vazarin great again.

[angias]

I see that the player who haste their revive are new for the majority.

i suggest loosing a quarter of everything you got upon death in the mission(rounding up) mod ressources would be erased randomnly. Getting a new rare mod would encourage player to play safer and cooperatively.

I don't think a less expensive consequence would make any real change.

Or we could remove the ability to bleedout manualy.

[(PSN)LubzinNJ]

There was a time when you had limited amount of revives per DAY and you could get more revives by paying plat? And people are advocating for that system? What are you, DE employees on ghost accounts? No. No. No no no no no.

[SANYA501]

urrr, play dark soul???