Someone Please Exlain To Me, About Draco Hate

[Circle_of_Psi]

So lately, I've been seening alot of hate towards Draco, and even toxic players aginest thos who use it, and while I safely ignore them, and call them trolls, that should be banned. I'll like to fully understand and in civil manner why there is so much hate.

 

From my standpoint: Draco is smipley a great place to go to if your wanting to level up quickly, and for players who are unable to level so quickly, due IRL issues, or so on. And the removal of Draco, which I whuold highly dout will happen, whuold cause a massive hell of a rage storm, and a huge loss of players. In which will result in Warframe no longer gaining money. (Cuz Grind-Frame, will die)

 

However, I can still believe, that Draco, brings out bad players or toxic people as well, and its generally a lazy way of leveling, Ths I do it to fast-level, so I can work on builds.

 

So my qeastion is for you people, and in a Civil manner, to explain to me why there is hate for it, or is it just Trolls being Trolls?

 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Legion

 

 

P.S I'll like to just point out, in-case anyone gets the wrong Idea, I won't leave the game if Draco is removed, but I will be dispointed, due to Warframe WILL be come Grind-frame, and if thats the case, then THAT is what will make me leave. Tho if they did some sort of fast-level mode, in replace of Draco then cake is golden.

 

 

 

[Magnar21]

Draco is a symptom. There will always be a loot cave.

 

Draco represents minimal investment but maximum reward. To many players, it represents an exploit, as players will not get banned (most likely) for abusing Draco, since it is possible without any external tools (and arguably, macros wouldn't/shouldn't be bannable, since Draco is perfectly possible if you just press the buttoms repeatedly yourself). Further, new players run to Draco thinking they are saving themselves time, but are sabotaging themselves since they won't get skilled at the game when they are carried.

 

That is pretty much the crux of the whole thing. Course, those who use/abuse Draco AND are already experienced aren't hurting themselves by using Draco, but feel forced to find a way to lessen the grind to get what they want. (I know one person who has virtually every usable weapon fully forma'd, and he likely wouldn't have been able to do it without Draco. Does it offer him more power? No. Does it remove fun from other players? No. It simply gives himself something to do in a game without meaningful content. In other words, he created his own system: personal achievements.)

 

 

 

 

Warframe is a psudo-F2P game. Study the term if you want to understand why.

 

Draco allows players to get the grinding out of the way and actually get to playing content they enjoy. As long as power is linked to mods, and mods linked to weapon rank, and forma resets weapon rank, players will be forced to spend time grinding, or they will simply spend time weaker.

 

Again, Draco is the symptom of a larger problem, and until that is dealt with conclusively, Draco should not be changed. Besides, those who have problems with Draco likely are only against one specific aspect of Draco:  AFK (or mostly AFK leveling). Now, I won't get into how most people I know are using macros to reduce muscle strain, and are not truly AFK. I will say this: Draco isn't a bad thing. As long as grind and RNG are so intrinsic to Warframe, Draco will not be bad.

 

Removing Draco will simply force players to find another loot cave.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Magnar21

[xRufus7x]

1. DE has killed several farming methods similar to Draco. Viver being the most famous.

2. It is farming on autopilot with little to no effort involved.

3. It is so boring.

4. Why do you care? Play the way you want.

Edited December 29, 2015 by xRufus7x

[Valiant]

Fairly sure you've mentioned one of the key reasons - seems to allow newish/unexperienced players to easily rank up gear without actually spending effective time in-game experiencing the content firsthand. It also seems to stir up the notion of 'MR be all'.

 

Point is, I don't Draco. I just play the game and level up stuff as I go a long. Shouldn't need to come up with something like Draco, especially as it can have a negative effect on the non-draco players.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Naith

[(PSN)zedlanik]

for leveling up warframes i go 2 arcadia its easy plus you get lots of morphic  and more

[Acos]

Hate is an overused and misunderstood emotion. I don't hate Draco, I find it mindless and boring. 

*EDIT: Wanting to ban people for not sharing your opinion is ridiculous. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Acos

[DaganEldr]

I think the biggest complaint is aimed at those who go there over anywhere else just because they get new gear.

 

I'm not talking about the players that actually ENJOY playing a difficult interception mission and receiving the XP as an added bonus, but rather the players that go "man, I got all this new gear and now I have to sit through rounds and rounds of Draco to get it leveled. UGH.", and then proceed to do their best to afk and do anything but actually play the game.

 

Things like that have earned Draco a sadly sour title, and it has earned most players that run it a lot the immediate assumption of 'lazy, boring, inexperienced, nothing but a rusher', etc. in the eyes of many. While I personally try not to assume of any player, I myself personally cannot stand the idea of going to Draco sheerly to level with no sense of playing or enjoyment. If I want to run Draco as an intercept, PLAY it as an intercept without the '4 to win' symptom', and have maybe one low ranked weapon, or a frame that isn't entirely maxed with me? That's a different story.

 

My whole thing though? Ultimately, play the way you want, as long as you're actually playing. :)

Edited December 29, 2015 by DaganEldr

[(PSN)ravegodzilla]

Don't know why people dislike Draco. I love it and most of the player's are very nice there. It's one of the few levels that i can find other players on. If you like it play it, if you don't just ignore it.

[blazekan5]

I dont hate but...it makes me cringe when people say they have skill cause of their mastery but some players just sit on the box. I shouldnt really even say players i mean workers.

[AM-Bunny]

I don't hold it against players that participate in Draco. Warframe is a progression based game, and it's only natural to seek out the most efficient form of progression. That being said, the progression in Draco is so rapid, that it's not necessarily beneficial to the overall health of the game. When it's removed (and make no mistake that it will be; that's the primary focus of the Starchart overhaul), I'll understand completely.

[Oranji]

And the removal of Draco, which I whuold highly dout will happen, whuold cause a massive hell of a rage storm, and a huge loss of players. In which will result in Warframe no longer gaining money. (Cuz Grind-Frame, will die)

Stopped reading after this paragraph.

[Roboplus]

Back in City of Heroes a thing was created called Architect Entertainment, or AE. It was originally intended to be a place to create your own missions with your own storylines and share them with others. What it became, was perhaps the most sophisticated farming tool in MMO history. In its earliest, most unregulated form, players could go from level 1 to max level (50) in a matter of 4 hours. Many players loved it, because CoH was a game where you made lots of alts. It was a quick way to get a character to max level and see if the power combination you choose preformed the way you intended (sort of like how Capacity and Formas can determine what mods you can use). The problem came when new players used it. They'd get to max level though AE, try to do end-game content, and be left utterly devastated as they had no real, working knowledge of how the game operated outside of a very narrow, highly controlled environment.

 

You see, the most efficient farming tools, like Xini, Viver, and present Draco, are not appropriate representations of what you'll find in higher-end content. They're not chosen solely because they're fast, but also because they're easy. If you never learn the basics of the game, because the mode you were playing never made it necessary, then your performance will suffer. And because this is a multiplayer game, when a player's performance suffers, they can make other players suffer with them.

 

There will always be farming, but Draco is too efficient of a farming tool.

[TheSteelRat]

H Draco, need EV Trin, JV Excal, Frost

 

Also known as .. I need to level up my frame and let everyone else do the work for me.  But am i going to return the favor?  NEVER! HA HA SUCKERS!

 

I joined one group as EV trin... person complained to me my EV didn't have enough range, and I told him his Efficiancy sucked since he would do 3-4 JVs and run out of energy

 

I joined another as JV Excal... person playing EV trin decided to stay near A, and Cap A (as well as C and D).  Died twice, and left after 2 rounds because his gear was maxed.. despite me asking them to nuetral A, and come up to the box, so I could protect him better. and i only got the same amount of affinity in 2 fast rounds as I would get in a single slow round

 

I joined another as Frost "to buff", over 4 missions and 8 rounds proceeded to ask someone else to deal damage.. i did, and got no buff.  And they  leveled up formaed weapons and frames and never allowed me to level up my frames.

 

Draco brings out the worse, and it is sad when it seems only the most selfish really use it a lot and create any "Hate"

Edited December 29, 2015 by kkinnison

[Maicael]

I'm okay with Draco. I made it to rank 12 before I even tried it out. I use it now to help me level up weapons because I've played the game quite a bit already over the past 2-3 years, I've found a number of the weapons I like, and obtained and maxed a majority of the mods. The only thing preventing me from really testing a new weapon to see if I like it is its rank and what mods I can fit on it. When you've got 30 weapons in your Foundry it would take quite a while to get through otherwise.

 

What I find annoying is when people will go to Draco with everything unranked or low rank. At most I'll bring 2 unranked weapons with my frame and third weapon maxed. Even if I'm running melee only (because leveling primary/secondary) I can many times have the most damage/kills (unless there's a nuke-frame or AoE weapon user).

 

Unranked frames IMO should use Apollodorus/Cassini Survival to level up first (or whatever other preferred mission where killing is the primary objective). That way they can focus on protecting themselves without needing to try (or fail) to protect something else

[S0V3REiGN]

It comes down to elitism, many players feel like the high MR players are being dissipated by a bunch of n00bs that simply power level their way there. Technically, there are 2 versions of Draco, the one that takes a squad of predetermined warframes to maximize affinity gains(the ones that spam recruit chat) and then there is the group that randomly join together for the tile set. Both versions are extremely popular. I fall on the second category now but I did the first for sometime as that is how Draco was introduced to me. I personally love Draco, I go there all the time because it's too good and I love the fast paced action. I also run into a few posters from here occasionally.

Edited December 29, 2015 by S0V3REiGN

[Tesseract7777]

People go to Draco to avoid playing the game and learn bad habits. 

 

They  blame DE for the "grind" as to why they do Draco, but they make the game unfun for themselves, while relying on bad meta habits that they then bring into the rest of the game -- making the bad attitudes affect everything. 

 

Many players who gained their mastery mostly on Draco may appear experienced, but fall apart if the strategy doesn't come down to them pushing one button while everyone else pushes one button. This isn't true for everyone, but it's a real problem. 

 

The truth is DE put in the grind because too much content can be literally gone through in a couple days if you feel like trying. They want to actually give you long term goals. And all people who do Draco is bore themselves doing the same thing over and over again, to quickly circumvent those goals, and then wonder why they are bored, and wonder why they feel that the game is stale, and say DE needs to make it fresher. They themselves are the ones making it boring, not DE! 

 

There will probably be another Draco though if they removed this one, which is why DE is working on completely reworking the solar map instead of just removing the latest exploit affinity farm node. 

[AM-Bunny]

Unranked frames IMO should use Apollodorus/Cassini Survival to level up first (or whatever other preferred mission where killing is the primary objective). That way they can focus on protecting themselves without needing to try (or fail) to protect something else

 

Yeah, I never run Draco with leechers. It's like - we all have Warframes that we could be leveling up, but we're not, because we're actually contributing instead... why should you get to just leech off of our work?

 

One time I joined a Squad from recruiting, and the host had an unranked Warframe. I simply said "I don't run with leechers" and left. He started PM'ing me, harassing me. He's saying "I have to put 3 more Forma on this Warframe!! What do you expect me to do? How else am I supposed to max it out??!"... typically, I enjoy running Spy missions to level up my Warframes, so I tell him this. "Spy Missions are impossible unless you're Loki" he responds... it's as if people that are regularly conditioned by Draco don't even know how to begin playing the game. That's what scares me.

[Maicael]

It comes down to elitism, many players feel like the high MR players are being dissipated by a bunch of n00bs that simply power level their way there. Technically, there are 2 versions of Draco, the one that takes a squad of predetermined warframes to maximize affinity gains(the ones that spam recruit chat) and then there is the group that randomly join together for the tile set. Both versions are extremely popular. I fall on the second category now but I did the first for sometime as that is how Draco was introduced to me. I personally love Draco, I go there all the time because it's too good and I love the fast paced action. I also run into a few posters from here occasionally.

The landscape/backdrop artwork if you look out is pretty amazing, too. I never really looked beyond what was part of the game map, but a lot of the backdrops are pretty awesome.

[nobu_the_bard]

People go to Draco to avoid playing the game and learn bad habits. 

 

This mostly how I feel.  The people who haven't already gained experience with the game, learn bad habits on Draco, as they are not actually playing the game.  They are generally highly optimized farming mills.  Thus, I mainly object to newer players using it or having it suggested to them.

 

I feel it's part of why you see teams on Recruiting for things like Sorties that are so specific.  Players that learned they need this-trick-and-that-exploit to succeed; they get it into their head there is a "right" way.  There's usually lots of ways, though.  They need a no-kill team (Blind Mirage, EV Trinity, etc) to complete Sortie 3 Interception with high armored mobs.  They must have Mag (and EV Trinity) to deal with high shield mobs on that Sortie 2 Defense.  H: Earth Capture - need EV Trinity.

 

There will always be some kind of farming thing like this as long as ranks work the way they do, standing/credits/resources/etc and MR matters to some degree, though.  And there will always be players eager to jump to higher ranks.  So it's not really worth being toxic about it, though.  I say this because I got a little salty there.  :)

[S0V3REiGN]

The landscape/backdrop artwork if you look out is pretty amazing, too. I never really looked beyond what was part of the game map, but a lot of the backdrops are pretty awesome.

There is something rather soothing about contemplating the ash clouds in the back drop while hearing the dozens of deaths of Grinner troops when they suffocate to the gas proc of my Telos Boltor.

Edited December 29, 2015 by S0V3REiGN

[Enno69]

I totally agree about your arguments about how Draco is a controlled environment that can cause players to lost their sense of reality.

 

I initially avoided this node, for a long time, because of angry people there who would force me to do boring stuff and yell at me if I did a mistake. Nowadays I use it, it's useful, but only with limits, with an etiquette ; imo that's what some tennos are lacking. Basically, I only bring formated gear to level-up again, or mastery fodder - though not anymore after MR 12. It makes the dull process faster. When I want to actually try out the guns and frames I am leveling up, fresh sets for ex, I go T1 Defense or Mobile def. Those nodes are more engaging and the difficulty there is more balanced.

[Stormdragon]

No hate on draco, but it seems to be the nest of spy mission haters (hacking? Sneaking? Who needs those?), life support spammers (activating life support capsules regardless of remaining support %), mobile defense rushers (leaving data far behind) and as many said before, players complaining about "slow content releases, the grind, and daily caps" and some of them even use the MR as an excuse to complain about these things.

I have no hate on Draco, but i prefer stay away from it until it gets somehow fixed.

From my standpoint: Draco is smipley a great place to go to if your wanting to level up quickly, and for players who are unable to level so quickly, due IRL issues, or so on. And the removal of Draco, which I whuold highly dout will happen, whuold cause a massive hell of a rage storm, and a huge loss of players. In which will result in Warframe no longer gaining money. (Cuz Grind-Frame, will die)

I think leaving the game because a exploitable map gets fixed, simply shows the kind of players abusing this node, threatening with leaving the game (to the point of thinking of "the death of warframe") reminds me of childs crying, stopping to do anything, even hold their breath until their faces get blue just because their toy has been denied/taken away

Legion.

Edited December 29, 2015 by -----LegioN-----

[Urlan]

Draco as an interception isn't really the core issue that we are worrying about just as Viver and E-Gate, the main issue is the reward comparison of doing other missions. For myself, I enjoy interceptions as they give me objectives that can't be killed off and don't have the air supply/time issue of survival. The missions also give me a decent reward, a T4 key for progressing to the 4th wave. I have no problem doing missions with allies or random players who seek to accomplish the missions and obtain rewards and don't see a reason to harm other players enjoying the game or doing missions in a way they see fit. That said, many players have issue with 'afk farming' and play that requires effeciency to be effective.

 

For the most part powerleveling at Draco and other high level interceptions, which Viver was one of; focus on two or three players essentially killing everything that moves so as to give the levelling player high amounts of shared experience. While farming methods focus on bunkering down and spamming powers or weapons effeciently to wipe the field while stretching the rounds time out not capturing all the points. Personally these methods are not fun to me but I can understand why some players feel they need such strategies to accomplish their personal goals - usually ranking each warframe or weapon to lvl 30 and getting a high mastery rank quickly - places such as Draco and formerly Viver do this by two methods; one the interceptions give high affinity gains in small relative map sizes that result in shared affinity for weaker or less contributing teammates because they have a naturally high chance of spawning eximus enemies and faction heavies which give better affintiy rewards - this chance gets higher with enemy level and since Draco, Cerberus, and Viver were already high level players could fight many eximus enemies without having to last more waves - thus allowing easier powerlevelling, the second being constant waves of enemies to claim the points lead to effeciency of drops due to like many endless missions, more enemies means more loot with the good objective reward of gaining a void key if one lasts to the 4th wave multiples.

 

Without changing too many mechanics of the game, one method to address these reasons for 'farming Draco' would be to make other missions more enticing reward wise while tying enemy aggression in interception missions to players engaging in the active prosuit of the objectives - something that is rare in the cliche Draco mission. One can look at the current system for rep gains, and focus as attempts to deincentivize such player behaviors but the it simply makes multiplayer play in general less rewarding. Instead, I believe methods similar to the hidden caches of a few current Sabotage missions are better manner of rewarding and engaging teamplay. The reward methods don't have to be the same, we don't need hidden containers in Interceptions per say; instead having mini events like Boss enemies spawning or having the objectives disable enviromental hazards, or completion of the mission with conditions leading to subobjectives with different rewards. As many of said in this thread and others, we will always have loot caves - somewhere for players to dig out the loot they feel is hidden from them more easily than other places. Instead of destroying those places, make them obsolete. Make players not want to run them, not through nerfing the original mode but through improving the gameplay and rewards of other missions. Carrots being better than the stick and all that.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Urlan

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I'm MR15 and I've never used Draco, most of my frames have 2-3 forma, plenty of weapons the same etc. I did all that the old fashioned way, by playing the game across the Starchart. The Sorties have really brought the issue into perspective, while I've met plenty of good players in them, there's been a huge amount of MR20 players who have very little knowledge of the game.

They're really obvious, they are usually really static, have no concept of dodging, rolling, no idea about using the terrain as an advantage etc. They usually bring a frame to use only one skill, I've seen tons of Trinity's that clearly don't have player hps on their screen and sit there mindlessly spamming EV while their team mate is in dire need of health, only to then complain when that team mate drops and they die trying to revive, or on many occasions, they don't bother to revive, stating that they "would've died". Ash players who don't use their invisibility, Mags who only press 2, Tons of Valkyrs with no game awareness unaware of the nullifier bubble about to consume them etc.

The best one is the Corpus survivals where you have to revive an MR20 over 15 times cos they have no concept of the sappers and stand there motionless(particularly Frost inside his bubble) and get instantly downed, only to complain that the enemy is OP cos they " killed my shields in one hit". Embers who don't keep Accelerant up but afk after pressing 4 and tons of Excals spamming EB and nothing else during Excavations etc or Novas who complain your MP is better than theirs even though they put maxed range on their build... The list is endless and I'm willing to bet that because they're rushing the game, they will get bored within a few months cos they'll have everything and then they will quit. That's not encouraging a good following, that's encouraging people to leave after unlocking all content and ignoring 90% of the game. Oh and most of them seem to use Soma Prime, even against level 100 Grineer with augmented armour, in fact they seem oblivious to all Sortie conditions like Radiation procs etc and usually complain that it's too OP.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Zilchy

[(PSN)THREEKLAW]

I don't have any personal hate for Draco, except for I get a little annoyed with newer players who state it as an an absolute: IE- This is what you must do or go to to farm mods, ect.  I think that represents a limited line of thinking, as players should feel free to explore and learn, and dictating a specific way to play is pretty narrow minded.  For ME, just an opinion, farming Draco or any other place in a rigid manner defeats the purpose of having fun.  Yes, it's more efficient, but it's not necessarily enjoyable. I would personally rather do several other missions as opposed to standing in one place in Draco.  However, everybody should be free to do what they want, so if you want to go do THAT, it's OK.  

 

I guess this is also illustrated in "rep farming."  There are players who go to farm reputation and believe they must do this in certain locations.  The truth is, you can max your reputation in many kinds of missions, especially high level void missions like survivals.  So when I hear something like, "We have to go to Draco to farm Rep," it seems a little silly to me.  Again this is the result of not understanding the game mechanics.  I have actually been on missions with players who want to leave after their Carrier gets destroyed, because they thought they couldn't pick up anything anymore.  So if a new player is told they have to go to Draco, this perpetuates the idea that one "must" go to Draco. So Draco's popularity is also linked to this kind of thinking: many players just aren't aware they can do other things and get decent gains.  Which is a little sad to me.

 

Ultimately it just comes down to how you like to play the game.  But,as stated earlier in this thread, farming Draco won't make better Warframe players.  SO I guess my only beef is with players who insist upon it as the only viable option.  Play how you like though.  

Edited December 30, 2015 by (PS4)THREEKLAW

[ThorienKELL]

It is interesting to see how many of you people are OVERTHINKING it, finding deep philosophical reasons behind it, and assign various negative aspects to draco that exist only in your heads of course. 

 

Draco is fun arena where I test my skills, frames and builds and I'm saving time. Draco have taught me a lot about game, there I've started first time to slide attack, aim gliding ... Show me the skilled draco player and I'll show you the guy who can play any mission. And it's nonsense that it doesn't require skill to play, and it will often test your skills, especially when few guys drop off or disconnect. Ofc you can bring some nuker but you can bring those in any mission, as usually, it's up to player.