(NSW)Greybones

I was doing some SP Circuit just recently and was strongly reminded of just how unbalanced SP is. I like the Randomiser for the way it forces me to use new things in a different way to Randomise Loadout, and I use Steel Path to minmax my gear, making specific build and loadout choices designed to blow everything away as per what the mode is meant to be used for. But then you mix the Randomiser which sits much better in the standard balanced game designed to enable variety of builds and loadout, and Steel Path which asks for specifically-considered builds and loadouts, and the result is me spamming abilities, not really thinking of what I’m fighting because it’s so enemy-dense that only care that there’s enemies there, getting status-based Decrees because I’m not going to individually pick off enemies or chew through armour with direct damage, barely considering situational awareness because enemies are just sort of dying everywhere and I’m just spamming abilities or spraying ammo in their general direction and letting the status do its job whenever it feels like it I can do it on my own with most loadouts I choose, but it’s often a slog and I prefer doing multiplayer, an option I often avoid elsewhere because other players will typically be designing themselves to solo the whole thing in general but in this case I’d gladly let them do so because I do kind of want to get it over and done with so I can get back to either minmaxing Steel Path or using custom builds and loadouts for desired gameplay in Standard edit: I’m a little bitter after plenty of host migrations in the cave. I’m going to assume it’s because someone didn’t like the options

Would love a modernisation of the Grineer tilesets while maintaining their organic and claustrophobic feel. We got the Corpus and their big clean spaces surrounding efficiency, I wanna see the close-quarters inefficiently-designed labyrinthine Grineer tilesets with their little nooks and crannies to discover (still finding new places even after all these years) brought into the future

I just did it after a few days of just mining whatever spots I notice while doing other things on Venus. Not all of them required more than just doing the standard mining minigame, my main problem was a graphical thing where hotspots didn’t appear so I had to move around blind on the seam

Just to clarify, @Reitrix, because I feel like it’s a bizarrely novel concept; when I say “Self sufficient” in regards to what you’re doing, I’m not referring to being merely sufficient enough to handle a single player’s worth of spawning enemies and mission design. When referring to how sufficient you are specifically building yourself to be for the content you’re doing, you exceed that by so much that you also just happen to take 3 other player’s gameplay away from them when you jump into a multiplayer match The game’s not going to stop you when you build for way higher than what you’re doing, but it’s not going to shift itself around your build either because you’re specifically choosing to not go to the part of the game your build more aligns with or using alternative ways to build that the content you’re doing enables you to use

You told me how you play. There’s no baseless assumption, you hang around in unbalanced SP, building to be self-sufficient even though you could build alternatively if you were paired with another player who is support (which why aren’t you sticking to solo if you’re going to be so self sufficient at cost to any alternative customisation; you certainly don’t need the other players) You’re not a mystery, but you are coming from such a warped perspective I can’t peg how you think what you’re doing makes sense. One-shots can happen, but they’re not so common as you seem to think they are and Gating is still working alongside gradients of damage to our health that gets healed. Healing a squad through a frame designed to keep the squad alive or buffed gives the players a chance to do something a little more risky with either taking their builds higher (within reason) or rebuilding in an alternative way while they get the heals or bonus damage or whatever from their teammate. Support has a place, you are specifically avoiding it and then acting like it’s the game that’s got it wrong. Which wouldn’t necessarily be a problem if you stuck to solo if you’re going to build to solo the multiplayer portion as well or understood that there’s more ways to build and play than what you do (popular as it is) edit: In an utterly shocking twist, weapons too can be built in different ways! And then buffed from support or supplemented by others on the team

Dude, you really got me wondering what you… expect from this game. Something like Trinity or Nidus or any support Frame is going to innately have healing capabilities, freeing players up to use alternative schools or mods or equipment or whatever they’d normally use to restore their gradients of damage that they take (if they’re not just using health orbs on the ground) because from the start those frames already have it covered. Any frame can do any content, but the frame you pick is going to influence your complementary choices and that in turn can influence how you build the frame. I don’t know whether you suck at the game, but I’m pretty sure that you’re not particularly versed in variety, otherwise you would have seen the gradients of damage and understand the purpose of a healer. Multiplayer admittedly isn’t a good chance to excercise the role (because players build to solo the thing themselves and to specifically avoid relying on someone else), but it shouldn’t be this obtuse to see what support can be

Let me just get something straight; I keep telling you to stop roping unbalanced Steel Path into this conversation (the game mode’s a mess of modifiers that do not equate to any sort of balanced play), you keep dropping examples that involve Steel Path. Do you… make a build that sits in Steel Path, then take it outside of steel path and somehow expect the rest of the game to be designed around it? Is that supposed to make sense or something? So right now I’m hearing either you stand still getting shot up when you use alternative builds in the content designed around alternative builds, or you…. build for Steel Path and then wonder why you’re dying in Steel Path, then when you aren’t in SP you’re still built like you are and rocking so much redundant survival (and probably weapon damage if I had to guess) that the game doesn’t give you a reason to need healing when it normally would if you weren’t built way beyond the content you’re doing and instead were exploring alternative ways to build. That strikes me as some weird expectations going on there. I’ll watch that video and see what kind of playing you end up doing Wait, that’s no video. Did you say you were doing this solo? Do you know what 4 times as many enemies will do to your survivability? Because SP has 4-player spawns for one player if that’s what you were doing. Note that 4-player does not equal 1-player Hm. No wait, you said this was Exterminate edit: Wish that was a video or something

Yes I can track my health and shields going down while I’m playing and getting periodically hit, that’s how I know what to do as Trinity or any other healer and when to do it. Stop getting hit so much in such a short span of time; even when we’re hit with lucky shots in the part of the game with more options and better balance designed around the notion of earning more things to use and play around with (which SP is not that part, especially not high-level), we’re not immediately dead as long as you do things like get out of there, keeping your distance and on the move which can have a huge impact on your survivability I remember why Shieldgate was introduced, and it wasn’t to be abused as a binary Alive or Dead system in high level SP; it was to stop us from getting one-shot from the few enemies designed around hitting us so hard there was a chance they could indeed one-shot us, especially if we were sitting on some low health from the gradients of damage we’d already taken. I’m talking to someone who has really bizarre idea of what game design looks like while sounding really confident about it; games that are designed around one-hits have a whole different philosophy around their gameplay than what Warframe does. I’m not even sure if you aren’t just instant-killing enemies with a few highest-level builds, because if you are, I can tell you that there’s meant to be a gradient of health for them too, and it’s there when you start exploring alternative combinations of build and mission like the game is designed around doing

Hm. This is surprisingly difficult to expand upon in an interesting way; we’ve already got things like specters and crew, we’ve already got some companions in general. I was wondering if an objective could be a new addition, but then we’ve got things like Arbitration defense objectives and the refugees I’m coming around to the idea of More Things To Keep Alive in solo, but not sure what else to add (yes, aside from the extra companions, though you know my thoughts on that)

Dude, stop either standing around getting shot to pieces and dying or using unbalanced Steel Path as your metric for deciding how squishy we are. Even in early SP there’s a gradient of heath so long as you, you know, get out of the danger zone when it pretty clearly becomes a dangerous area to hang around in and you start getting low, and when you start pushing the levels in the unbalanced game mode you should be dead at some point in time. This idea that the game is designed around a binary state of either alive or dead is nonsense

I like the Corncob mech though…

I don’t think you’re on the wrong track or anything, personally. I just find that what we’ve got can be sufficient; I do think that if there was going to be more companions, maybe it could be something a little more interesting or different than just “Extra cats and dogs to take care of”

Seems like it’s a system to help punish just jumping into a group of enemies and swinging and expecting little risk. Getting close can be dangerous in the first place, where if an enemy doesn’t stagger or something you get a face full of (example) shotgun blast or they can strike back or you’re in the middle of the room being shot up from all directions edit: Personally I haven’t had a problem with it, and think it can be used to further distinguish melee weapons

Those’ll be for when players use alternative build/loadout/mission combinations where they might need some help because the combination results in some kind of fighting happening. Usually though players’ll just make sure they’re way overbuilt for the content; jump into a level 40, they’ll be built like it’s level 80 via redundant amounts of damage/survival when they could be customise alternatively. Jump into level 80, they’ll be built like it’s steel path, and so on and so forth. Mostly though they just cut out all the preceeding level ranges by building for whatever is as high as they want with the most minimal of shifting anything around, so long as it wrecks everything and turns a multiplayer mission into a single player one with no need from support (is why I often prefer playing with AI companions, because then we can actually fight alongside each other instead, though I still don’t think I need more beyond what we already have access to) Haha. You’re not wrong in that I’m a lot less magnanimous than being a healer may imply; I like keeping people alive because it can be fun to keep track of the status of others and strive to be there when they need me, but if someone’s hogging all the game and I’m left twiddling my thumbs, I’ll break them myself to give me something to do (plus I’ll be juggling the mission as well, so that could be fun)

I do like companions to help me feel like a healer when squads make it pretty clear they’re not interested in relying on anyone but themselves as individuals by specifically taking their most “Complete the mission solo” gear and builds possible, but I’ve… already got that? I don’t need to simulate a squad of four players who want to play with me, I’m fine with just whatever I can summon or get given in-mission edit: Oh oh oh! I recently learned about an aura that has a bonus but drains the shields of heavy attacking spamming players who can’t figure out when and where is a good time to heavy attack. I was thinking of getting that to play around with for personal reasons, but now you’ve given me an idea where maybe I could force players to rely on me as support because they’ll be killing themselves and I’ll be there to get them back on their feet, ready to kill themselves again. 🤔 Now you got me thinking

Pretty sure I’m supporting myself as Trinity or Oberon and any companions I got and not having to faff around with any outside sources of healing when I may want to equip something else or build in a different way…

I wouldn’t recommend chasing efficiency to detriment of gameplay if you were going to jump back in, otherwise you’ll potentially be piling on the stress of redundantly optimising otherwise perfectly fine builds. Game’s still designed from the modless baseline and whatever build/loadout/whatever combination you could want, with more options added to play around with and earn, so… that’s a thing

I would love a Codex pass-over. The game doesn’t have to hold player’s hands and force them to learn if they don’t want to, but if someone’s searching for information in-universe, the Codex should be the place to go. It’s got… some information. It’d be nice to see it cleaned up, updated, and made easier to access and understand (personally I’d love a “Right-click on foundry ingredient to learn more about it” or something option, even just for reference because I’ll forget at times), because otherwise jumping into the Wiki or community can be just a huge information dump instead of streamlined way of learning edit: I’m fine with vague descriptions that can point someone in the right direction even if it’s not hitting the player over the head, that’s how low my bar is

Weren’t you the one with the controversial universal vacuum opinions, @quxier? I thought you made some good points about forcing players to be more active, but this idea sounds like it’s actually leaning in to the popular semi-afk playstyle…?

Yuck. How about we not cater to a bunch of optimal grinders? If they’re so concerned about efficiency, they’ve got Speedva they can use. Otherwise if enemies last for any amount of time, they can potentially start overwhelming the player and objective without some kind of slowing effect. Slowing down both movement speed and actions can make a difference between being able to prioritise targets and being overwhelmed. (yes I know the average player builds all that away, I’m saying let’s not further their mentality, especially if it starts impacting someone else through changes to fundamental system designs)

Not sure why…? Slowed enemies can be really helpful to keep them in a certain location or prevent them from arriving on the scene and overwhelming the player Is this a For the Sake of Optimal Grind change or something? edit: Doesn’t slow already slow actions? double edit: Oh wait, for some reason I was thinking cold all this time

I thought Waverider taught the player the controls…? Did they remove that or something through a change elsewhere? Personally I’d just jump into something and do it, no real concern for efficiency or anything. Many things start to shake out and become understandable just by doing it a few times with intent to figure it out

Sounds potentially like the old Alert system? I think it’d be kind of neat to fight alongside our converted liches in a personal mission; could help strengthen their characters. Maybe different mission types or modifiers based on the progenitor frame? Or maybe we control the lich themselves and fight alongside Kahl or something. (also, please re-instate the randomised map progression DE; I miss making up stories about why my lich attacked a certain place)

I’m aware, I’ve been marked for ages though and Stalker just hasn’t appeared. 🤔 Even the factions aren’t sending their kill squads. Probably too embarassed to be whooped and they can’t blame the gear difference. More seriously though I wonder if there’s like a hidden mechanic surrounding their likelihood to appear…? edit: Hm. Looking through the wiki it seems like it’s just really low chance of appearing

Depends on if I get tired of matching with other players who build themselves to solo the whole mission 🙃