Birdframe_Prime

Pollex? It's a Forma. DE are never going to let you refund a Forma. Not on your terms. There was the great 'Innate Abilities' refund, where every player that had the two specific slots that DE were removing (in order to give us 8 basic and innate abilities instead of 6 basic and four Ability slots) got back those two Forma, per Warframe affected by it... but that's it. They'll give you more Forma, but they won't let you deliberately refund it. Even if it's Umbral Forma. Even if it's slow to get and rarer than the normal Forma, it's still just Forma, you expend it as a cost, you don't invest it for a return.

You're going to have to push those up, those are rookie numbers.

While I would normally be all for this... DE deliberately added it as a nerf. It was free when he first got it. And they nerfed him with it. Getting them to change their mind on it... is a weak prospect at best. So... Not seeing this happening.

Surprisingly, he does have a bit of hidden tech that we're not even sure is deliberate. In this case, it's that you can actually drop to about Neutral Strength, as long as you have massive Range, and you ping his Pillars with his 4th. What this does is cause the effects of his 4 (the explosions on enemies that have Radiation on them) to proc with every damage pulse from the Pillars. With high Range this basically just makes everything in the radius, or close to it, explode repeatedly. Damaging everything around them. Causing more explosions if those enemies are also Irradiated. So the denser the enemies are, the harder this hits. It's almost worrying how good this little function is, compared to how it's not explained at all by the game, and only by player testing which feeds the Wiki.

Okay, OP, here's an offer: While your build is one thing, the grind is another. Do you want some help? You don't have to go at this alone, and if it's just clearing the nodes so you can go get better mods and farm the rest, then I'll be perfectly willing to help out. Assuming we're online at the same time, just hit me up. We can clear those nodes, I can talk you through some stuff on Discord, and then you can go on about your merry way ^^

That's a crash caused by you overloading the game with effects, my friend ^^ Combining the Electric proc from the Tome's projectile, which will proc all the enemies with Electricity, which will immediately radiate the status damage to all of the enemies, giving massive damage because of their close radius, with the conversion to the Magnetic projectile that is generated by Magnetise when it enters the bubble. At least... that's what it looks like is happening ^^

Well, you're in luck, this was 3 hours ago in the latest Hotfix: So give it a go ^^

Connection. Problems. It's basic context when we're talking about Peer to Peer connections that the problems are with the connection. As in, it would disconnect clients, cause Host Migrations, and more. I have literally said this nearly a dozen times in the comments I've made back to you. Over and over again. This is just you not reading them. How? I've genuinely explained how. Did you just fail to read that either? Scroll back and have a read. Your problem is that you're not even reading the words. Oh, screw off. You're not worth my time. Blocking your comments now, because you're just trolling. You don't care what DE wants? Then you're not getting anywhere. You're deliberately trying to force this into a discussion on punishing players for AFK when it's not about that at all. I am not biased, I'm reporting what DE has told us, you absolute troglodyte.

Yes. DE said as much before. They explained why when they implemented the basics for players not joining games after certain points of progress. It was literally causing problems. I don't make this stuff up. I go based on what actually does work from exploring how P2P works since I started taking an interest in Warframe's methods nine whole years ago, and based on exactly what DE have actually told us about their decisions, the reasons behind those decisions, and their goals for the game. When the makers of the game tell us 'We want to remove AFK tactics and stop punishing people for being falsely labelled as AFK' over five years ago, and stick to that statement for the time between then and now, it's fairly sure that it's their policy. Yeah, and you don't need to if the methods for playing AFK are removed from the game. Made non-productive. Worse than just playing the game. And again, you're missing the point. DE don't want to ban people. They don't want to make it so people don't play their game. They actively profit from having more people in the game all at once. This isn't about implementing bans of players. This isn't about moderating players actively. This isn't about implementing a system that punishes people. This is a question of getting more players to play the game, actively and reactively. Making it more viable to play the game than to AFK the game. Making sure that the tactics that enable AFK gaming are not there in the first place to use. If you can't grasp that basic concept, you aren't going to get anywhere in this discussion.

It's a game balance thing. Warframes are the things to wield the silly weapons, parkour all over the place, wipe levels. People complain enough already about Quests and things focusing on the Operator/Drifter instead of Warframes, they complained plenty when it was about things like Archwings, or Necramechs, too. Operators/Drifters are the void kids that pilot everything, they have the weird powers that tie it all together and are supposed to only situationally fight. Duviri, for example, is a clear exception because it's a dream world created by the Drifter themselves as a way to cope with the Void. Of course they're the main character and can instantly use swords, spears and hammers like a trained professional, of course they can summon a Kaithe out of nowhere and ride it like they've been doing it for years, of course they can commune with every animal and heal the sick ones. They're the literal only character in Duviri besides Teshin that's real. Oh, and our gun there already makes us more powerful than the enemies, even in Steel Path. So. Point is that the only reason that the Drifter can't use weapons is because DE thinks that they shouldn't. They have Amps, which can already be super powerful, and have utility powers that make every frame better when used correctly. And because half the player base moans and drivels like a down-spout in the rain about wanting to play Warframe as a Warframe instead of as anything else.

So... I'm almost with you. The problem is that DE have this thing about both the Efficiency and the Range stat. Even Archon Shards don't touch those. And the idea that they'd be 'Umbral' mods so that they would potentially combo and stack with the existing ones is not something I think that DE will go for. Look at all their other sets, they have limits ^^ How about we... uhhh... dial some of these back? Maybe instead of your base idea, we give one stand-out mod, like Umbral Intensify just straight up being better than Intensify, better than a Primed mod would be (if a Primed Intensify existed) and a viable alternative to a Corrupted mod because it has no negative stats even if it has a lower value. Then we put the other two as 'the same until you combine them'. So let's think about this... What if the next Umbral-style Warframe was... Ember. Ember Cinis. And the next set is the Cinis set (still use Umbral polarity) but matches her being more of a caster. The mods are Cinis Redirection, Cinis Streamline and Cinis Continuity. Redirection because Shield Gating for Casters, then the Efficiency because that's a capped stat, and Duration because DE doesn't seem to mind that, without touching Range. All of them are exactly the same base stats as the others apart from Continuity. Cinis Redirection stacks up the exact same way as Umbral Vitality does. Cinis Streamline is a direct replacement for Fleeting Expertise with three Cinis mods as it's 30% base and stacks 10% per mod to 40% and then 60% So it has no drawback other than using the other mods, and we calculate that a Primed Streamline theoretically would have 55%. Cinis Continuity is actually 40% Duration at base, so it's better than regular Continuity, and it stacks 15% per time to give 85% total. This makes it worse than a maxed Narrow Minded, but you don't have the negative Range drawback, which would make it the obvious choice for a high-duration Caster build, as you could even stack it with Narrow Minded for just a flat better duration than you would have had before at the same drawback as before. This way you balance out the obvious mix-and-match from having them all contribute to the Umbral set bonus (because equipping 4, 5 or even 6 Umbral mods would still only stack to 3, but it would stack to 3 on all of the mods, which players would farm Umbral Forma to do, they definitely would), by instead making them two separate sets. If they can't contribute to each other, you must build with a bit of care. Players would then have the option (albeit a very obscure one) to use the two sets in conjunction to increase six different stats to a massive value without any Corrupted mods as a drawback. Using a triple Cinis set would be ideal for a Caster, because they could not only have the high Shield value for Shield Gating, they would also have Efficiency and Duration with no detriment from the Corrupted mods, allowing them to opt for the lesser Range mods, and the basic Strength mods, to have positive stats they wouldn't have had before at no real down-side. The only people that wouldn't be quite as happy would be the Shield Gate min-maxers, who prefer having negative Efficiency to power their Gating casts, but being able to go to maxed Blind Rage and still have positive Efficiency without using Fleeting? That would be amazing for the rest of the casters, and that mod for the old Shield Gating now exists anyway. On top of that, the players that want high Strength for builds on frames that don't need Gating would be lapping this up. Mag, Gara, Zephyr, Citrine, Dagath, Saryn, Qorvex, Revenant... A lot of frames would really enjoy this. So how is that? Do you think it sounds fair?

Stopping you right here. I see the problem with your thinking, and you've missed it because you're not thinking about how Warframe works at a fundamental level. And missing it is completely understandable, don't feel bad about this. Warframe is Peer To Peer. What this means is that Warframe does not host the games on a server, the games are hosted on a player's computer and the other three players connect to that player as Clients. That's why they have a Host Migration system for when the Host disconnects and they have to attempt to reconnect the other players, but sometimes it fails because those players can't host each other, and so they get dumped back into the Orbiter with no rewards. So you literally cannot detect an AFK player and message the others in the rest of the Warframe, because they're only connected to the Host player, not the game's Servers. You functionally cannot. You cannot spectate another player's game when it's in progress without joining their session and putting more stress on the Host's computer. This is why the old concept DE tried to do of 'Squad Link' and used Operation Scarlet Spear to test, didn't work. The net-code to connect two P2P games is not stable, not reliable, and often causes crashes in the game's connection to the client players. I can see why you'd be so hopeful for your idea. I really do. But it can't work. Warframe just functionally cannot support that method because of the base way the game functions. ::Edit:: I did not. I said it's one of the ways. Making players interact with the game, push buttons, move around, actually play the game. That's the goal. Making players go pick things up forces them out of their AFK bubble, so it's one of the ways to prevent AFK behaviour.

But that's the thing, you're massively, massively overcomplicating something that literally doesn't need to be. By building a system that is full of caveats saying 'Oh, but not every report is going to be a troll' and 'Oh, but not this mode, people aren't AFK-ing on this mode'... that's absolutely pointless. Because it neither actively stops the person from doing that, live, in the game where they're doing it, nor does it have any affect on the tactics they're using to do that. The point of DE's methods is to make sure that any person, anywhere in the game, has to actively play the game. That's what you're missing about this whole concept. Moment to moment. Within a game session, every time they load into a mission, before they even start to AFK, the whole point is to make sure that AFK methods do not either A.) Work, or B.) Reward a player anywhere close to just playing normally, or C.) Exist. Because what DE want here is for you to be playing. Badly, amazingly, lazily, whatever. Just playing. Not watching the screen while the game and your Macros play for you. When you take that basic premise into account, then all of your methods that you've listed don't, and won't, do anything. A community-based reporting system? Sure not everyone will use it inappropriately. But most won't use it at all. And it won't actually stop the people that are going into a mission solo, or in a premade group. It won't solve AFK tactics in Warframe. Simply removing the AFK methods, or modifying AFK methods to be inconvenient, or even just making sure that AFK methods only work for a few minutes at a time before you have to start playing again, that's what will stop AFK methods. It does, will, and has previously stopped AFK methods in multiple games over the years. And that's what DE are doing. Rather than over-complicating things by having some resource-intense reporting/monitoring method.

I gave clear reasons. Allow me to re-iterate: No automated system can determine the accurate difference between players using a Macro to AFK and players just being players in a repetitive fashion. Even the idea you had for detecting if three players in a squad were AFK with one actual player would have detected myself and my clan when we try to teach new players how to better play things like endurance Defence and Survival. You cannot introduce any form of AFK detection system that functions automatically that is fair to the player base. You even said it yourself; you get caught by the current AFK detection system while you're playing normally, and that other legitimate players do by getting up to take a quick break while their squad keeps them alive. Automatic detection literally doesn't work. Hell, it's worse because you can learn how the Automatic system works and simply do one extra step that prevents it from triggering. Run it based on repetitive inputs faster or more precise than a normal human can repeat? Accessibility players need those repetitive macros to play the game. Run it based on activity? New players being shown the ropes, or out-killed by experienced players will suffer because they literally can't be as active as the other players yet. Any automatic system can be tricked. And always tricked by the people that want to get around it, while the people that are just playing their game the way they can enjoy it will get punished because the automatic system can't differentiate between real and accidental AFK. The trick for solving AFK activities is to ensure that the bare minimum of activity is actually required to play the game. That can mean making sure players actually have to walk around the room to pick up loot. That can also mean that the massively tanky, easily summoned and infinite-duration-until-killed turret that Wukong has will deplete your own ammo pool instead of having infinite ammo forcing you to go pick up more. That can mean that AoE weapons most commonly (according to DE's internal metrics) used for AFK farming are nerfed so that they have incredibly low ammo pools and only restore 1 ammo from pickups. And it can also mean what DE are actively working on to further prevent that meta, to whit, the return of self damage in a more fair form that prevents players from standing still and shooting their feet the way non-Wukong players do for AFK farming. It is simpler, and more effective, to see what tools players are using to AFK farm and then making sure those tools are flawed or do not provide the returns that the players want them to. For example, better than your own AFK option of a quick-time Hacking event, DE have already implemented a better AFK punishment function in the new tile set: Every few minutes, out of line-of-sight, an enemy will go summon a Necramech. Why is this better? Because at higher level, a Necramech cannot be dealt with using AFK farming methods. It can be dealt with two ways; the first is by seeing the marker, hearing the alarm, then going and killing the enemy that is attempting to summon (something that literally cannot be automated in any way), or you have to kill it using the quick and easy methods that AFK meta farming weapons simply don't have the option for. Because if you don't it can physically move you out of whatever safe place you've found, AoE slow you so that you can't respond, and kill you while you're AFK. In point of fact, the real trick is to make sure that the desired way to play the game (moving, shooting, needing to keep your eyes on the game) is more rewarding and offers the easiest time farming. That's how you prevent AFK. So that's why Loot Pickup is going to stay in the game, because it's one layer, out of many, many layers, that forces you to actually interact with the game.

Okay, so. You've listed all these things and not one of them prevents AFK farming. Because every single one of them is countered by not being fair to people that are legitimately playing the game. And by that I mean quite literally; everything you said makes it harder for normal people to play the game, not harder for AFK players to AFK. In the same way that you get falsely caught by the current AFK system, that wouldn't change. It would only get worse. It's been 10 years. Let me say that again. This game has had 10 entire years to work on things like AFK prevention. Do you know why any kind of Automatic Detection doesn't work? Because this isn't like the old battle between Ads and Ad Blockers. DE has to try to be fair to the players that legitimately have to use things like Macros due to capital 'a' Accessibility, or players that can't play quick-time functions the way you or I can (the introduction of Ciphers, for one example). So anyone wanting to AFK can simply run rings around the Devs. The basic AFK prevention system is to prevent people from just thinking they can stand in the corner and do nothing. That's all. The only way to fully prevent AFK farming is to ensure that there aren't convenient and easily-set-up methods to AFK farm in the game. Any automatic system you want to implement will either falsely detect players doing things a certain way as AFK tactics, making it unfair to regular players, or it will... do absolutely nothing whatsoever because the actual AFK players will just switch tactics. Take the AFK farming methods out, however, and why would you even need an AFK prevention system?

I'm going to say... DE. You know, the people who nerfed a whole meta and the frames connected with it, at least three times, to prevent AFK farming? We basically don't want DE to have an excuse to try and 'fix' another meta again, because when they do? It's nasty for everyone involved.

Yeah, going to stop you on this thought. Two things: First, DE did actually use a Skill Tree system in the closed Beta, and then completely removed it in terms of modding. Second, DE have a specific policy with their permanent buffs (not the temporary ones, like Helminth Invigorations) and that is this one: Any player, using the same Warframe with the exact same modding, will have the exact same effect. This applies through the Shard system, the Helminth Ability Infusions, all of it. If one player can do something via the systems that DE have implemented, then every other player can do that too. No more, no less. Temporary buffs, like from the True Master's Font, or from the Invigorations, are fun little timed bonuses. That's it. There's been a lot of ideas like this for permanent progression with accounts. DE just... don't want them.

Only way to go is to introduce Gun Stances.

Considering we just got Arcane Dissolution, too, I have watched a couple of Arcane traders go into absolute catatonic shock. They don't know what to do and I can only say 'I told you so', because I did. Any resource that gets too rare, DE will guaranteed bring in something to dilute the market.

Fun fact: Interview with Rebecca at The Game Awards Basically? Yeah. Voruna could get something. Maybe. Maybe.

What? Oh, sure. Had a friend in game who took these for me since they were doing runs for the Event. Proof enough for you? I called you 'friend' because I didn't want to publicly call you 'person of sweeping statements that are unverified'.

Heh... I understand the problem. Because I understand the problem, I'm even worse off than people who do not.

You don't have to believe, it is exactly what I've said it is. There is no excuse for the laughably low 500k. That's why I mentioned that I'm 'definitely not' a salty Zephyr player in my original comment in the sarcastic fashion that I used. The facts are this: When the game has a system for counting damage it gains an 'entity' that takes damage. There are two uses for this 'entity': 1. An unspawned one that counts damage taken for a simple calculation of the resulting effect, or 2. A spawned one that can interact with the other 'entities' on the map, such as you, the enemies or environmental objects. Any time you see a player or enemy turn 'invulnerable' and have a persistent effect on them, which can include Rhino's Iron Skin, Nezha's Warding Halo, Well of Life, Gaze and so on, the invincible item has gained an unspawned 'entity' which takes the damage in order to calculate the effects, then, when the duration of that 'entity' is finished, it does the final calculation and applies the effect. This can include dealing damage out as the entity expires, applying Overguard, or even weirder stuff. The key thing about the unspawned entity is that it can take its damage as a 'before calculations' number, using base damage from the weapons without mods or enemy scaling, and then use an equation to apply the effects with any kind of equation for scaling the game devs decided. Any time you see an object that appears on the map that both the player and the enemies can see and both the player and the enemy can damage it and be damaged by it (even if you have to radiation proc a player for them to take damage), that's a spawned entity for interaction. This is a separate thing as must have a 'health' pool that can take damage in order to deal real-time calculation for instant application. Unlike the others that store up the damage and apply it later, it must take the damage live and calculate live. Otherwise it can't do things like Tornado does, such as take a projectile with infinite punch through, which can damage the enemies in the effect, then the funnel, and even another funnel all in the same shot, or have an AoE weapon damage both the enemies and all three funnels to amplify the damage. It certainly wouldn't be able to do the Electric proc trick, where the enemies take an Electric proc, the first tick deals damage radially, which hits the Tornado funnels, then procs on all of the enemies in range, which repeats the damage quadratically scaling it. Tornado definitely wouldn't have the Crit Inherit bug, either, where it always uses the Crit Chance of the primary fire mode, making it sub-par for Incarnon weapons, but amazing for weapons that have low-crit alt-fire modes compared to high-crit primary modes. These spawned entities even include projectiles from weapons or abilities, believe it or not. The new Tome, for example, uses a spawned entity from its alt-fire to deal out its damage in a continuous radius as it travels. So here's a question that I've posed myself on the bug discussion: Why don't we just have Tornado function similar to Mallet, where it only takes the base damage from weapons, but then applies it out based on the modded stats or the enemy level? That way, just like Mallet, the 500k health wouldn't matter because we couldn't deal enough damage to break it before the Ability Duration ends. Meanwhile, the damage would still be immense, as it currently is, in fact it would probably scale more fairly overall. If they don't want to increase the Tornado base Health of 500k, then fix the ability. Which is also why I said that it appears to be 'not a high priority'. Because DE knows the bug exists, but just... haven't done anything about it. I'm upset about it, too, Traum.

My friend, you are standing in a room where crates literally spawn in those spots that the Voca have spawned on. There are specific special places where only rare resources can spawn, such as on top of the bookshelves in the new tile set, but the default spawn points for anything can be occupied by either a rare thing or a basic crate.

No, it can't, you're literally conflating two separate systems within the game's Engine. Pablo has talked about this when the bug with Tornado originally was found.