Chroma needs a rework

[m0b1us1]

16 hours ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

The fact is nothing will probably change till after Fortuna. They have all their people focus solely on Fortuna. It is all about Fortuna right now just as it was before POE came out. 

They have ignored him for years before they "fixed" Vex Armor. I would love if the team did do a full nice Nezha quality rework. But even with Nezha it took time for them to come up with the superb ideas that have made Nezha amazing. 

They have stated that NOTHING has been planned for Chroma. Maybe maybe when Mesa Prime comes out at the end of the year maybe then they will do something. But it could be longer. For the moment I will get my Chroma Prime to where he is usable if ever I have the itch. But I might be shelving him along with Ember for the forseeable future. 

I want them to do a Nezha quality rework not a half attempt. But until Fortuna is released my hopes of enjoying Chroma again are slim. @[DE]Rebecca and @[DE]Steve, I truly was looking forward to Chroma Prime. He is my favorite frame. And many times I have defended him, your change of Vex Armor, and have given several rework ideas to make him feel more the power of a true Elemental Dragon. All in the hopes that there would be a God Tier Rework before his Prime.

I also know that Fortuna is something that is shaping to be amazing. But I had hoped to have a reworked Chroma Prime to tide me over till Fortuna came out. As of right now I am suffering major burnout, with nothing to keep me in the game till Fortuna. 

So Rebb and Steve, I truly hope that Fortuna is all that it is hyped up to be. I understand the strain you are under to make it a blast. I am hoping that it is fun and I truly look forward to it. But as a veteran that has been here since the beginning of the game, I had hoped that you would do something for Chroma Prime. That I would have something to do that I would enjoy as I formaed and experienced the power of a reworked Chroma until Fortuna. And I have nothing. 

Personally I love the Prime Access and the Armor and Energy boost. But otherwise I am majorly disappointed. 

Rebb and Steve if you read this (which isn't likely) know that I love Warframe. It is one of my favorite games of all time. Take the above not as a whining kid. But as an 28 year old man that has enjoyed a product few could create. A passionate Chroma fan that only wants to see his frame become a great frame. Just like the Nezha's who finally got their dream come true.

It also doesn't help that DE gave absolutely 0 justification or insight on chromas current state and issues and why they didn't at least revert scorn nerf, let alone a true rework.

All they said was "nope, no plans for chroma" even though they have said for years that he needs to be looked at. DE nerfed him just because he one shouted their eidolons with a bug between fury and dual elemental damage. We can still easily one shot them without chroma. I want a full frame. Not a frame that is used for 1 ability in 1 mission. At least old chroma was an amazingly strong solo tank. I would gladly take that over this new weak chroma even if you couldn't use him against eidolons.

[PabloX732]

On 2018-09-26 at 4:58 PM, (PS4)jman10089 said:

Spectral scream: I feel what your trying with this but I feel the stun if out of place on this ability and keeping the ignis like breath doesn't seem fun. It would be more fun and effective if they increase the damage enough for it to do some heavy burst damage and give it more aoe potential and turned it into an elemental projectile like when you use the afterburn augment. 

Elemental ward: It would be nice the range was increased for the elemental aura effects too so that if you had electricity damage on the enemies within 50 meters were stunned and took a bit of damage or if you had fire or toxin damage they would obtain those procs and dot ticks. The rest you said sounds good.

Vex armor: could like you said already and get a bit of a percentage buff to bring it up to par with of other frames that have abilities to increase defense stats.

Effigy: While I love the idea of dragon mode we all know it not going to happen but if I was to suggest changes to your idea is lets not make him fly because more than likely it will be a dragon version of archwing just not miniature like titania's. It should also allow melee too there is no reason why it shouldn't and why lock out melee weapons from this ability. 

Passive: I like but some people in another thread said it could potentially be over powered if combined with hunter adrenaline or rage.

i've made a change, fly is now optional, and is not that hard to fly, but if you play normally it's almost impossible to enter it by accident.

[T004]

I will let DE remove ally buff to get more self buff f I can... (sine I can go solo only with my poor internet T T)

Well I totally agree with you that chroma need to rework and spectral scream is really need to rework as soon as possible.

[(PSN)Buzzer_Blast]

Hello everyone I got some ideas for Chroma Rework !

Chroma rework :

Passive : gets 50 Armor for each differents status effect applied to enemies.

1st power: Elemental scream - Press once to release an elemental breath - Maintain to change elements (fire, ice, poison, electricity)

2nd power : Mana zone - Chroma surrounds himself with an elemental aura that causes damage to nearby enemies and increases for weapons, the chances of applying the status effect of this element. - Using "Elemental Scream" at the same time increases its range.

3rd power : Vex Armor To take damage on the shield increases the armor, to take damage on the health increases the power of the weapons and power of the abilities.

4th power : Dragon form - Unfolds its wings, fly and unleashes its elemental fury on the battlefield. Aim and shoot to release an elemental ball that exposes and creates an area of damage. - Use "weapon change" to make a shout that stuns the enemies. - Use "melee weapon" to make a shock wave that repels the enemies - Use "reload weapon" to leave the effigy, chroma becomes faster but loses his armor.

[ShadeOhNiner]

Not sure how I feel about the ideas for the first two abilities, but I would love to see 4... though I doubt DE would allow for flight. the hallways of the game are tight enough, and the only reason Titania gets away with it is because she shrinks. Could be wrong though, since we now have the more open plains and Fortuna on the way.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

3 hours ago, PabloX732 said:

i've made a change, fly is now optional, and is not that hard to fly, but if you play normally it's almost impossible to enter it by accident.

I like the fly,   But we must consider one thing . Chroma only increases the armor with vex armor, it is not a percentage reduction. So yes, it could go over 95%, but it could very well be thrown to the ground and suffer the status effect that they felt a good part of armor or that ignored part of it. If you think about the resistance before the nerf it was not something so absurd. I have a question ... What if elemental ward instead of creating an area that deals damage (like fire ) had something different? I do not know, it just came to my mind and I put it on like this.  

[PabloX732]

1 minute ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

I like the fly,   But we must consider one thing . Chroma only increases the armor with vex armor, it is not a percentage reduction. So yes, it could go over 95%, but it could very well be thrown to the ground and suffer the status effect that they felt a good part of armor or that ignored part of it. If you think about the resistance before the nerf it was not something so absurd. I have a question ... What if elemental ward instead of creating an area that deals damage (like fire ) had something different? I do not know, it just came to my mind and I put it on like this.  

the ice already gives a buff armor and redirects some damage to the enemy, slowing down with cold proc reducing their dps. but some people think that this is not enough and should bring scorn back to the old days, which I completely agree with.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

9 minutes ago, PabloX732 said:

the ice already gives a buff armor and redirects some damage to the enemy, slowing down with cold proc reducing their dps. but some people think that this is not enough and should bring scorn back to the old days, which I completely agree with.

I remember the good old days when warframe armor used to be alloy armor. 

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

18 minutes ago, PabloX732 said:

the ice already gives a buff armor and redirects some damage to the enemy, slowing down with cold proc reducing their dps. but some people think that this is not enough and should bring scorn back to the old days, which I completely agree with.

I just hope it's not sarcasm ahahaha. Allow a question, are you Pablo of nezha rework?

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

30 minutes ago, ShadeOhNiner said:

Not sure how I feel about the ideas for the first two abilities, but I would love to see 4... though I doubt DE would allow for flight. the hallways of the game are tight enough, and the only reason Titania gets away with it is because she shrinks. Could be wrong though, since we now have the more open plains and Fortuna on the way.

If then maybe we can have effigy function like a STAND from JOJOS BIZARRE ADVENTURE. Effigy will mimic your movement and attacks along with it being moddeable. Shooting will cause the effigy to mimic it in the form of elemental breathe dealing damage. Charge attacking will cause effigy to unleash its stun attack. Jumping/aim gliding will have increased effectiveness while effigy is active. Meleeing will cause effigy to mimic it in the form of elemental claw attacks hat rip right through your enemies. Slam attacks will cause effigy to to unleash an elemental explosion triggering effects based on the element.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 hours ago, LordChronos said:

Leave his 2 and 3 alone!!!! Change and improve on his 1 and 4. 

 

Hes damn sexy looking. 

 

That is all. 

Ahhh, the old sports adage:

”Looks like Tarzan.  Plays like Jane.”

[Yatazanami]

8 hours ago, LordChronos said:

Leave his 2 and 3 alone!!!! Change and improve on his 1 and 4. 

 

Hes damn sexy looking. 

 

That is all. 

you see this as sexy O.o ? 

that's some kinky fetish you get there god damn ....

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

18 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Ah, lets see here. Where to start. Lets go story mode. Incoming...

 

Chroma's Development: was during a time where DE started to switch from multiplicative damage buffs to additive. This is shown as Mirage pre-dating Chroma on U14 using Multiplicative and right before Chroma's release the 1st ability Augments were introduced to the game ( Fireball Frenzy, Venom Dose, ect ) U15. These were additive damage buffs but Chroma development was complete or near by this point. Chroma was release U16 after Chroma; most frames started to use Additive Damage buffs.

• This part is important as it shows a change in development style for frames.

The First  Mishap: began when a mathematical problem occurred in Chroma's code from too much Power Strength being applied to his multipliers causing a negative or 0 result. When DE fixed this flaw they caused a bug with multiplicative damage bonuses causes them to double dip into DoT effects and in Chroma's case dual elemental combos. Similar to the older Gas + Stealth multiplier double dips.

• The bug caused by this fix to Chroma is a global one and to my knowledge still exists in the game with Rhino and Bane mods.

Chroma's Rework: was a claim to "fix" Chroma as his original design intended but as mentioned I firmly believe he was designed to do exactly what he did. DE changed their development style and that's fine but the bug that was intended to be fixed by this rework was cause by them attempting to fix another bug and said bug still exists in the game. If their intention was indeed to conform Chroma to their new damage buff standard than at least Rhino and Mirage are still at large.

• This is important as it shows selective standardization which is contradictory in itself. DE even admitted that Chroma was not a problem until Plans of Eidolon. The reason for this is that Chroma has always been a flawed creation. He cannot survive long enough to make use of his damage output due to relying on Armor as his source of survival. His damage output often solved itself but this problem was made worse by changing his armor buff to additive.

They Failed on both Fronts: Not only is Chroma still able to trivialize Eidolons but he's far weaker for one of the two things he was good at. Endurance runs and Boss killing. His ability to survive is pathetic compared to previous multiplicative armor and even that wasn't the tankiest around. They didn't Improve his1st ability or his 4th ability in any meaningful way. They simply changed his roll to a mediocre buff frame that only functions well against Eidolons since there's many better damage multipliers out there that Chroma can't hope to compete with.

• In his current state Chroma lacks the survivability to be a good endurance frame and his buff is sub part for majority of the game. Only in Eidolons who are immune to debuffs and status effects can Chroma find a purpose these days. In an attempt to hinder his ability to one-shot Eidolons they made it pretty much the only thing Chroma is good at. 

 

• In the time up to Chroma's rework DE seemed careful with their wording. Separating Damage Buff as it's own category from other damage boosts like Blind, Sonar, ect. They made claim it was still one of the best damage buffs in the game. Which was accurate but on patch day they said multipliers which is not accurate nor is the claim that it's in line with other damage buffs as exampled by Mirage and Rhino.

So where is Chroma now? Chroma is a mediocre frame that takes less skill than previous to use. He's contradictory to his mechanics now that you can simply refresh his buff. He's still a press and forget frame and he still relies on the weakest form of mitigation in the game to survive ( Armor ). I'm astounded that Nezha is getting a 90% mitigation buff and Chroma is stuck with one Bleed proc from dead syndrome. Chroma is not a bad frame at all but he was and still is highly exaggerated in his ability to take abuse thanks to being Armor reliant. His ability to deal damage has never really been in question but now requires the group to mod their weapons a very specific way to gain maximum value which no one outside an Eidolon pre-made is going to do.

For those interested in why armor is so bad....

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Damage modifier double dip into armor. Puncture for example has a +50% modifier against Ferrite which is Warframe armor. This mean Puncture not only gains 50% damage bonus but ignores 50% of your armor value. This creates an armor penetrating effect than is only be reduced by greater amounts of armor. Chroma being able to get very high amounts of armor was the only thing saving him from suffering more at the hands of this double dip. A formula for calculating how modifiers interact with Armor is here

damage = baseDamage * (1+damageTypeModifier) * (300 / (300 + armorRating * (1-damageTypeModifier)))

As an example 100 Puncture damage to 663 armor ( 68.8% mitigation )..

damage = 100 * (1 + 0.5)  * (300 / (300 + 663 * (1- 0.5)))
damage = 100 * 1.5 * (300 / (300 + 663 * 0.5))
damage = 100 * 1.5 * (300 / 631.5)
damage = 100 * 1.5 * 0.475
damage = 71

If not for this double dip the resulting damage of 100 +50% would be 47 damage.

I like to show this video to people to give a visual example of Chroma's survival state. Chroma takes 15 hits while Nova takes 18. Of course higher energy pool for Chroma Prime will improve his survival when using QT but also keep in mind Nova isn't using her strongest ability which is effectively 75% addition mitigation against most enemies.

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TLTR:  Armor mitigation sucks and so does Chroma's rework.

Why did DE think it was a good idea to switch the warframes alloy armor to ferrite?

Edited September 28, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[000l000]

I'm pretty sure they didn't rework him yet cause he doesn't need to be fixed like Nezha but totally reworked - and it takes time, needs ideas too. He's boring and quite outdated, even Vauban with two interesting powers only is way funnier than that.

Without Eidolon hunts, we wouldn't see any Chroma at all. 😕

Edited September 29, 2018 by 000l000

[Battle_Mage]

Wow. So after the dev-stream...

RIP Chroma.

You were Primed before your...prime.

You will be missed.

[Conflux59]

11 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

It also doesn't help that DE gave absolutely 0 justification or insight on chromas current state and issues and why they didn't at least revert scorn nerf, let alone a true rework.

All they said was "nope, no plans for chroma" even though they have said for years that he needs to be looked at.

This is something that's been bugging me.  It's the story of  ~this product isn't all that good... we as a company know it, we've mentioned making it better and we didn't, but we're going to dress it up all fancy and push it out knowing people will eat it up.  Because astetics~

The fact that in the past they've acknowledged the need for changes in the future, then failing to take another look him as previously stated, while also acknowledging our current requests for changes, and finally saying they have no plans... that's concerning to me on a different level.

As many have already stated... it is dissapointing/disheartening.  If they aren't even bothering to look at him now, the chances of something in the future seem abysmal ...and yes I'd be thrilled if that prediction was flat wrong.

Personally I'm one of the people that would happily buy the most expensive pack and support the developers for making a wonderful product, and while I've come close to giving in, my conscience starts slapping me in the face and saying "why are you buying 1/4 of a Warframe and giving them $ for it"

DE, people want to give you lots of money.  Help us help you.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

So far everybody here is aware of the tons of chroma rework threads and it's affairs. Usually all those threads get merged with the other chroma thread, forming an amalgamation of all sorts of mixed ideas that get jumbled up into a hideous mess. Hopefully this thread doesn't suffer the same fate. Anyways moving onto the main topic.

 

Chroma the elemental master. able to adapt to anything.

passive: chromatic adaptation - Chroma upon taking damage adapts to whatever damage type has been inflicted upon him, becoming immune to its status effect and bonus's for a time.

1st ability: spectral scream - Chroma lets out an elemental scream that can devastate your foes. Spectral scream is an ability that can casted immediately for a quick elemental blast or it can be charged up to one huge continuous beam of elemental energy that grows stronger with each and every status proc they take. This ability and it's scaling becomes amplified when effigy is active.

2nd ability: elemental swap - Casting this ability will allow chroma to change elements on the battlefield. Each element determine the effects of each ability.

3rd ability: Warding vex armor - When shields are hit, Chroma's armor grows stronger, when health takes a hit, weapon damage increases,active for a limited time. Along with that chroma surrounds himself with an elemental ward that has different effects based on the element. All of chromas damaging abilities are affected by the damage buff warding vex armor gives.

4th ability: effigy - Chromas pelt manifest as a guardian that hovers right behind chroma lowering his defesnse in exchange for more offensive capabilities and enhancements/utility. Effigy will mimic chromas attacks and movement with its own version of attacks and mobility. 

primary weapon/secondary weapon fire will cause effigy to fire elemental energy at the enemy you are currently firing at. :note: weapon type will determine whether or not if effigy's attacks are burst or continuous.

blocking will bring effigy to the front of chroma and create an elemental shield that protects all who is within the field range. :note: the shield would function as if you would normally block. Basically for example if you have a silva and aegis prime with 90% damage reduction when blocking, that shield that effigy projects gets 90% damage reduction.

melee attacking unleashes the fury of effigy's elemental claws, slicing through all in your way. Along with that performing charge attacks will unleash effigy's roar stunning all enemies within a certain radius.

jumping/aim gliding becomes more effective while effigy is active.

Alright here's basically in a sense the effigy is a stand and chroma is a stand user with this rework proposal. This is the best picture I could make to show off how it may look.

The goal of this rework Idea was to make chromas entire kit much better and more synergized while still retaining the weapon platform feel of chroma. The only thing I didn't add my ideas towards were the 4 elements that chroma uses. You guys can discuss what would be the best ideas for what effect each element provides. Anyways I hope you like my rework proposal.

But sadly I don't think DE will care about these ideas. But hey it doesn't hurt to try anyways :)

[Battle_Mage]

Unfortunately, you're screaming into the Void here, man. DE has their fingers in their ears and are yelling: Lalalalalalalala I can't hear you lalalalalalala.

Listen to the end of the Dev Stream -- Titania, Wukong, Nyx are top of the list with.... Vaubad at the bottom. Chroma didn't even make the bottom of the list.  It's deplorable.

The casket is closed, the dirt is being poured. He's done. Any more threads on his rework will be met with more silence. I think we've all got better things to do at this point.

[K4RN4]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

So far everybody here is aware of the tons of chroma rework threads and it's affairs. Usually all those threads get merged with the other chroma thread, forming an amalgamation of all sorts of mixed ideas that get jumbled up into a hideous mess. Hopefully this thread doesn't suffer the same fate. Anyways moving onto the main topic.

In other words: There is a thread that collects all ideas on a topic and you decide to post somewhere else, knowing that moderators that sort of behavior.

 

38 minutes ago, Battle_Mage said:

Unfortunately, you're screaming into the Void here, man. DE has their fingers in their ears and are yelling: Lalalalalalalala I can't hear you lalalalalalala.

Chroma is widely used within the 'meta', therefore he is not a priority to rework, unlike the other frames you named, which are only very rarely used because they don't currently have a gameplay niche.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

57 minutes ago, Battle_Mage said:

Unfortunately, you're screaming into the Void here, man. DE has their fingers in their ears and are yelling: Lalalalalalalala I can't hear you lalalalalalala.

Listen to the end of the Dev Stream -- Titania, Wukong, Nyx are top of the list with.... Vaubad at the bottom. Chroma didn't even make the bottom of the list.  It's deplorable.

The casket is closed, the dirt is being poured. He's done. Any more threads on his rework will be met with more silence. I think we've all got better things to do at this point.

then I guess we as the community are going to have to unite and make sure he gets that rework he deserves.

[yles9056]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

then I guess we as the community are going to have to unite and make sure he gets that rework he deserves.

Not that DE doesn't want to rework Chroma. It's just that there are other frames waiting in line. They are in worse place than Chroma.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

3 minutes ago, yles9056 said:

Not that DE doesn't want to rework Chroma. It's just that there are other frames waiting in line. They are in worse place than Chroma.

Yeah and what if they just forget about him after all those frames? We got to make sure he indeed does get a rework. Plus tbh releasing chroma prime without a rework is a missed oppurtunity.

[Xzorn]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Keep it coming...between you and Crixus...I personally find his play to be mediocre in power and lackluster in terms of entertainment value.  Which is sad because he looks AWESOME and his “1” could be visually remarkable and fast-paced and stack.

DE needs to know.

 

Sadly I don't think much will change. Least not anytime soon. DE tends to buff and nerf things based on popularity and not performance.

If the numbers show they'll hit the mark on Prime sales and player participation than they won't do much. The same thing happened with Valkyr. She's pretty Mediocre as well and in need of some tweaks / buffs but didn't get them because she's played enough where frames like Hydroid, Limbo and Zephyr got utterly broken buffs.

Chroma was simple in concept before but it took a great deal more attention to play him well. You had to have good shields and buff timer management while also doing all the other things involved with Warframe. If you got stuck with no shields and your Vex poofed at higher levels you were simply done.

There was a notable difference between general Chroma play and well played Chroma and that's been over simplified.

 

6 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

Why did DE think it was a good idea to switch the warframes alloy armor to ferrite?

 

I could never determine if that was strictly a PvP change or both PvP and PvE. Information around that time wasn't as detailed as it is these days. Though without putting a tinfoil hat on I find it interesting that Nullifiers do Puncture damage when Lanka is an Electric weapon and Corrupted Crewman also do Puncture when Strun is Impact.

These things occurred when Void Endurance runs were semi popular. Use one key get 40 Prime parts. Weather or not DE cared is unknown but they changed the Void to Relic so I'm thinking they did. Also against unanimous player votes for scaling Kuva in the Kuva Fortress, we were ignored.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

24 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Sadly I don't think much will change. Least not anytime soon. DE tends to buff and nerf things based on popularity and not performance.

If the numbers show they'll hit the mark on Prime sales and player participation than they won't do much. The same thing happened with Valkyr. She's pretty Mediocre as well and in need of some tweaks / buffs but didn't get them because she's played enough where frames like Hydroid, Limbo and Zephyr got utterly broken buffs.

Chroma was simple in concept before but it took a great deal more attention to play him well. You had to have good shields and buff timer management while also doing all the other things involved with Warframe. If you got stuck with no shields and your Vex poofed at higher levels you were simply done.

There was a notable difference between general Chroma play and well played Chroma and that's been over simplified.

So DE are most likely going to just leave chroma buried in his coffin then... Welp I guess more chroma rework propaganda is going to need to be made.

edit: Heck even tacticalpotatoe wanted a chroma rework of some kind!

Edited September 29, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb yles9056:

Not that DE doesn't want to rework Chroma. It's just that there are other frames waiting in line. They are in worse place than Chroma.

It honestly doesn't get much worse then chroma imo. The sole reason he's beein played at all is bc his one inferior buff stacks with rhinos... what's simply circumstance.

Wait for people to figure out stronger combos (ivaras navigator is a candidate with her x5 default buff) and he'll gonna die out.