Chroma needs a rework

[maddragonmaster]

honestly i am not sure if DE is aware of how much of desire for a chroma rework there is. anyways even though its nice that they are reworking the less played frames to make them enjoyable, there is still some reasons some people don't choose those frames that don't include having their abilities in a good condition

Edited October 1, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(PSN)Guerrilian]

I have a theory that Chroma is supposed to be based the Dragonslayer that defies the odds and not the Dragons as living forces of nature.

We joke about him wearing Daedric Armor, the helmet of which already resembles the skulls of the dragons from Skyrim, but I am starting to think he is actually a genuine tribute to the Dragonborn and Digital Extremes just cannot legally admit such.

Chroma, like the Dragonborn, possesses the power of a dragon by having killed it and integrated its essence into his own.

Then there is Spectral Scream and Effigies radial howl. When has a dragon used sound to manifest its elemental attacks besides Skyrim where the dragons use shouts to bend reality with words of power?

I think Chroma is supposed to feel desperate...and thats the problem.

Obviously, Chroma is the video game knight that has beaten the dragon boss and crafted armor out of its remains, absorbed the source of the boss' magic, and now wears Legendary Tier equipment so badass that he looks to newer players like a high level boss.

However, DE seems to want him to be that underdog knight in over his head and that does not mesh with expectations or advertising. His ultimate is like cutting his losses and running to spam restores like special potions.

Imagine if Spectral Scream ragdolled enemies. Imagine if dead enemies could be captured for massive health regeneration and to pause the drain of Effigy for a duration.

Or if the radial stun also applied elemental effects.

On a side note, a small change with big impact: let Effigy benefit from energy restores if it is in range of the pelt.

 

 

 

 

[maddragonmaster]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Gorrilian said:

I have a theory that Chroma is supposed to be based the Dragonslayer that defies the odds and not the Dragons as living forces of nature.

We joke about him wearing Daedric Armor, the helmet of which already resembles the skulls of the dragons from Skyrim, but I am starting to think he is actually a genuine tribute to the Dragonborn and Digital Extremes just cannot legally admit such.

Chroma, like the Dragonborn, possesses the power of a dragon by having killed it and integrated its essence into his own.

Then there is Spectral Scream and Effigies radial howl. When has a dragon used sound to manifest its elemental attacks besides Skyrim where the dragons use shouts to bend reality with words of power?

I think Chroma is supposed to feel desperate...and thats the problem.

Obviously, Chroma is the video game knight that has beaten the dragon boss and crafted armor out of its remains, absorbed the source of the boss' magic, and now wears Legendary Tier equipment so badass that he looks to newer players like a high level boss.

However, DE seems to want him to be that underdog knight in over his head and that does not mesh with expectations or advertising. His ultimate is like cutting his losses and running to spam restores like special potions.

Imagine if Spectral Scream ragdolled enemies. Imagine if dead enemies could be captured for massive health regeneration and to pause the drain of Effigy for a duration.

Or if the radial stun also applied elemental effects.

On a side note, a small change with big impact: let Effigy benefit from energy restores if it is in range of the pelt.

 

 

 

 

theory bunked. chroma is based on a nordic dragonslayer named sigurd who used his sword gram to slay a dragon named fafnir. not going to explain the entire thing so just google sigurd and read it on the wiki.

better yet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram_(mythology) here you go

Edited October 1, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

5 hours ago, Midian79 said:

Chroma isn't even jack of all trades, master of none. He is jack of barely any trade. Whenever I ask people how's Chroma, it's always, "he is great for eidolon."

Wouldn't that make him the master of eidolons?

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

2 hours ago, lecoral said:

 

Agree, but he need a buff to the third. 

The old formula for armor was great, even for the damage ( without the usual double dipping damage that remain in the current formula if I remember correctly). 

Yes, of course he needs more synergy between his abilities, but without his old armor he will always be a MEH frame, if not bad. 

I've written the reasons too many times. 

Besides, DE would get a huge amount of backlash if they don't bring back at least the old armor buff ( i can complain with the nerf to damage even if I think that the old formula was perfect). 

The perfect thing to do is bringing back the old calculation removing the double dipping damage issue. 

At that point make a mix of all the idea of the community to give Chroma a more fun kit. 

But in primis take care about vex armor, this is peculiar skill. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by (XB1)TRL kaldwin

[(PSN)Gin_Da_Merciless]

1.  Like Ivara’s one but you cycle through the elements. Fire element still breathes fire but it would be more like the Ignis cept more status chance instrad of crit. (The way it works from what im seeing is that it does dmg much slower than it should).  Ice would give him a bubble around just him that reduces incoming damage with a set amount of hp and explodes when depleted from duration or enough dmg is dealt to it.  Electric can be an electric field on the floor in a cone that stuns enemies. (Like old hollow grounds but more of a cone.). Toxin can be a poison shot that does dmg on hit then a cloud lingers around doing DoT. 

2.  Elemental ward- Fire buffs hp and heals over time.  Ice buffs armor and slows enemies.  Electric recharges and increases shields while shocking any who physically attack. Toxin makes aura that does dmg to enemies nearby.  Allies get 50% of the active effect when near Chroma.

3. Vex armor- make recastable and buffs dmg for his First, increase buffs to 125% and effect on allies to 75% with EW and increases aggression of Effigy.

4. Effigy-  Follows Chroma, changes elements when you change, attacks when you use the first,  when you use Elemental Ward it gives the buff to allies in range and when you use Vex armor it performs quicker.

When you actiivate your first and use fire Effigy unleashes a heat wave that stun burns enemies for a slightly longer duration doing dmg over time. Ice will cause effigy to slow down enemies with ice,  if they are already slowed from elementsl ward they become frozen.  Electric will stun all enemies in range of the targeted enemy.  Toxin fires a medium toxic bomb that stays on the floor that DoTs and slows any who walk in it.  

While Chroma isnt wearing armor Elemental ward gives his weapon the active element and much more status.  Element can be combined with single elements on modded weapons being used.  Vex armor will increase his attack by 25%.  If vex is already active before effigy then the buff is applied after.  

Passive: he becomes more resistent to the elements used against him while said element is active.  

The powers can not mix. (You cant have an ice shield with a toxic effigy.... unless theres another Chroma i guess). One element at a time.  If you switch elements your abilities will switch as well unless theres an ability that leaves something behind (toxic cloud).

Let me know what you guys think.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)marcellusg90 said:

1.  Like Ivara’s one but you cycle through the elements. Fire element still breathes fire but it would be more like the Ignis cept more status chance instrad of crit. (The way it works from what im seeing is that it does dmg much slower than it should).  Ice would give him a bubble around just him that reduces incoming damage with a set amount of hp and explodes when depleted from duration or enough dmg is dealt to it.  Electric can be an electric field on the floor in a cone that stuns enemies. (Like old hollow grounds but more of a cone.). Toxin can be a poison shot that does dmg on hit then a cloud lingers around doing DoT. 

2.  Elemental ward- Fire buffs hp and heals over time.  Ice buffs armor and slows enemies.  Electric recharges and increases shields while shocking any who physically attack. Toxin makes aura that does dmg to enemies nearby.  Allies get 50% of the active effect when near Chroma.

3. Vex armor- make recastable and buffs dmg for his First, increase buffs to 125% and effect on allies to 75% with EW and increases aggression of Effigy.

4. Effigy-  Follows Chroma, changes elements when you change, attacks when you use the first,  when you use Elemental Ward it gives the buff to allies in range and when you use Vex armor it performs quicker.

When you actiivate your first and use fire Effigy unleashes a heat wave that stun burns enemies for a slightly longer duration doing dmg over time. Ice will cause effigy to slow down enemies with ice,  if they are already slowed from elementsl ward they become frozen.  Electric will stun all enemies in range of the targeted enemy.  Toxin fires a medium toxic bomb that stays on the floor that DoTs and slows any who walk in it.  

While Chroma isnt wearing armor Elemental ward gives his weapon the active element and much more status.  Element can be combined with single elements on modded weapons being used.  Vex armor will increase his attack by 25%.  If vex is already active before effigy then the buff is applied after.  

Passive: he becomes more resistent to the elements used against him while said element is active.  

The powers can not mix. (You cant have an ice shield with a toxic effigy.... unless theres another Chroma i guess). One element at a time.  If you switch elements your abilities will switch as well unless theres an ability that leaves something behind (toxic cloud).

Let me know what you guys think.

When you said "increase buffs to 125%" you means inncreasing  armor buff by 125% ( so 350%+ (350*1,25)= 787,5 (same for fury) or you mean that the new buff should be like 350+125= 475% base armor? 

If you mean the first I'll be agree if you took back the moltiplicative buff for armor and ice elemental ward. 

For the others ability I like your idea. 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by (XB1)TRL kaldwin

[(PSN)Gin_Da_Merciless]

Just now, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

When you said "increase buffs to 125%" you means inncreasing  armor buff by 125% ( so 350%+ (350*1,25)= 787,5 (same for fury) or you mean that the new buff should be like 350+125= 475% base armor? 

If you mean the first I'll be agree but not too much. 

For the others ability I like your idea. 

I dont want him to be to op so i was meaning like it goes from 100% - 125% so increasing by 25%.  Its just a number i threw up there i would let DE do the balancing but i dont want Chroma overpowering other frames ar what they do. 

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

1 minute ago, (PS4)marcellusg90 said:

I dont want him to be to op so i was meaning like it goes from 100% - 125% so increasing by 25%.  Its just a number i threw up there i would let DE do the balancing but i dont want Chroma overpowering other frames ar what they do. 

Wait a min i wrote wrong cause I'm doing something else. 

So. 

1) Chroma base scorn buff is 350% additive ( 425 for prime) 

2) if you take back a 350% scorn buff MOLTIPLICATIVE he would be perfect. 

Even 300% moktiplicative base armor buff. 

At this point we can take fury buff to a 200% ( not 275%) bringing back the moltiplicative formula. 

I said this because of Umbral mods

Edited October 1, 2018 by (XB1)TRL kaldwin

[(PSN)salovel1991]

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Yeah, but come on, this is about the fourteenth thread in the last six days. Not to mention all the people that appeared to be literally throwing controllers around when they found out he wasn't getting the rework before his Prime came out...

Forgive a little frustration when the actual information and confirmation that Chroma is going to have his rework, just not now, was repeated on Friday and this thread and re-awakenings of about four others pops up on Monday.

There are more things we should be complaining about. Where is shield gating? Why haven't we had a double resource weekend in over a year now? 

[Birdframe_Prime]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

There are more things we should be complaining about. Where is shield gating? Why haven't we had a double resource weekend in over a year now? 

Uhh... Shield Gating was shelved in favour of, and I'm not actually quoting, more summarising from the DevStreams last year, 'something that works more reliably in Warframe'. We did get a full rundown of why the regular term that describes Shield Gating wouldn't work, and why they weren't doing that.

And the last double-resource weekend literally less than a month ago. Double Credits, started on September 6th.

I mean, yeah, there's so many other things that DE needs to be doing but Chroma is one of them, he's on the list, and those specific two examples are kind of not.

[Hrodgrim]

Wew. Chroma doesn't have a passive, lad. This is not a bait post either, he really does not have a passive. You pick your favorite flavored Chroma and you continue on your merry way. If you want to get technical, my Excalibur also has Chroma's passive.

[maddragonmaster]

ok lets just give him a dragon hide passive that reduces physical damage types by a fixed ammount and have the elemental resistance be based on which element chroma has at the time. this is just an example for elemental resistances as i do not know how to scale the thing i want mathematically  but lets say with fire chroma equipped you have 75%-100% fire res while having about 50% res from radiation, gas, and blast. so either a quarter or half of the resistance of the pure element.

then again this could be elemental ward or just a combination of elemental ward and vex armor and then they could just buff up the shields, armor, and health a bit better. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(PSN)Guerrilian]

I had another idea

Instead of altering the abilities directly, we can mostly just put them as Exalted.

 Effigy: Exalted Sentinal 

• Once cast, the problem of duration is not of time or energy channeling, but of Effigy's health. 
• Like a Spectre, it can be ordered to follow or stay, but Guided Effigy would allow you remote control in certain places. 

Effigy's Breath: Sentinal Rifle.

• You can equip Combustion Beam and Sinister Reach
• You can equip elemental mods, so it leans into the elemental theme and gives it that edge to make it feel like an ultimate.

Spectral Scream: Exalted Pistol

• Ruinous Extention for beam length.
• Hawk Eye for beam length.

 

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

theory bunked. chroma is based on a nordic dragonslayer named sigurd who used his sword gram to slay a dragon named fafnir. not going to explain the entire thing so just google sigurd and read it on the wiki.

better yet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram_(mythology) here you go

 

Okay, I get it, he's Sigurd/Seigfreid, including bathing in dragon blood for invulnerability in some versions. There is still my point that he is a larger-than-life dragonslayer and Effigy is the corpse of the actual dragon, Fafnir. You know, 'effigies' are meant to be mocked, as in 'they burned the old king in effigy, desecrating his likeness'. Effigy is supposed to be a mockery of dragons like Smaug.

That leads me to my second point that still holds true: DE set him up as a veteran badass that ate the Big Bad Dragon and wears the skin as a trophy, but they don't want him to be a boss-killer. They want the hero that had to go through an entire journey to be equipped to take down a legendary monster, but that translates to ridiculous prep time in a fast-paced game. 

 

 

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

14 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok lets just give him a dragon hide passive that reduces physical damage types by a fixed ammount and have the elemental resistance be based on which element chroma has at the time. this is just an example for elemental resistances as i do not know how to scale the thing i want mathematically  but lets say with fire chroma equipped you have 75%-100% fire res while having about 50% res from radiation, gas, and blast. so either a quarter or half of the resistance of the pure element.

then again this could be elemental ward or just a combination of elemental ward and vex armor and then they could just buff up the shields, armor, and health a bit better. 

Exactly

[maddragonmaster]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Gorrilian said:

I had another idea

Instead of altering the abilities directly, we can mostly just put them as Exalted.

 Effigy: Exalted Sentinal 

• Once cast, the problem of duration is not of time or energy channeling, but of Effigy's health. 
• Like a Spectre, it can be ordered to follow or stay, but Guided Effigy would allow you remote control in certain places. 

Effigy's Breath: Sentinal Rifle.

• You can equip Combustion Beam and Sinister Reach
• You can equip elemental mods, so it leans into the elemental theme and gives it that edge to make it feel like an ultimate.

Spectral Scream: Exalted Pistol

• Ruinous Extention for beam length.
• Hawk Eye for beam length.

 

 

Okay, I get it, he's Sigurd/Seigfreid, including bathing in dragon blood for invulnerability in some versions. There is still my point that he is a larger-than-life dragonslayer and Effigy is the corpse of the actual dragon, Fafnir. You know, 'effigies' are meant to be mocked, as in 'they burned the old king in effigy, desecrating his likeness'. Effigy is supposed to be a mockery of dragons like Smaug.

That leads me to my second point that still holds true: DE set him up as a veteran badass that ate the Big Bad Dragon and wears the skin as a trophy, but they don't want him to be a boss-killer. They want the hero that had to go through an entire journey to be equipped to take down a legendary monster, but that translates to ridiculous prep time in a fast-paced game. 

 

 

anyways i i made my point of DE basing chroma off sigurd, while having the element chosen by energy color being based off dungeon and dragons dragons and their scales determined their breath element. and the 4 horns aspect of the chroma prime is a common thing with dragons to have 4 or more horns or horns of various designs. and when you look closely at the daedric armor in skyrim the horns are not the same size unlike chroma prime horns with them being of equal size. 

heck here's a dragon called fatalis in monster and it has 4 horns. oh and i just realized daedric armor has more then four horns.

oh and please tell me were is this lore DE had made about chroma saying he ate a dragon and wear his skin as a trophy? 

also ridiculous prep time? since when is changing just the color of your energy color count as ridiculous prep time? players spend more time equipping their mods in their weapons and frames longer then just changing a single color. and then you have to choose your weapons, and such. 

and then theres fashion frame which then if your want to work with does take up more time. sure you have to color your frame around energy color that dictates your element, but one question. does it matter what element you choose if you don't include elemental wards buff?

Edited October 1, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[hooperinius]

Biggest thing I see is what is Chroma supposed to be?

Eidolon killer? Buff giver? Strong solo character? Status spreader? Fashion frame?

Only the devels know that answer.

They made Nezha a lot more fun, hopefully they can fix Chroma too.

 

 

[maddragonmaster]

5 minutes ago, hooperinius said:

Biggest thing I see is what is Chroma supposed to be?

Eidolon killer? Buff giver? Strong solo character? Status spreader? Fashion frame?

Only the devels know that answer.

They made Nezha a lot more fun, hopefully they can fix Chroma too.

 

 

going to take a while though.

[Julian_Skies]

3 hours ago, Reefermun said:

Wew. Chroma doesn't have a passive, lad. This is not a bait post either, he really does not have a passive. You pick your favorite flavored Chroma and you continue on your merry way. If you want to get technical, my Excalibur also has Chroma's passive.

Neither does Limbo. I'd argue Rhino doesn't either but I guess having a passive that never activates and never does anything is different from not having one.

Not every frame needs a passive.

[(PSN)Guerrilian]

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

anyways i i made my point of DE basing chroma off sigurd, while having the element chosen by energy color being based off dungeon and dragons dragons and their scales determined their breath element. and the 4 horns aspect of the chroma prime is a common thing with dragons to have 4 or more horns or horns of various designs. and when you look closely at the daedric armor in skyrim the horns are not the same size unlike chroma prime horns with them being of equal size. 

heck here's a dragon called fatalis in monster and it has 4 horns. oh and i just realized daedric armor has more then four horns.

oh and please tell me were is this lore DE had made about chroma saying he ate a dragon and wear his skin as a trophy? 

also ridiculous prep time? since when is changing just the color of your energy color count as ridiculous prep time? players spend more time equipping their mods in their weapons and frames longer then just changing a single color. and then you have to choose your weapons, and such. 

and then theres fashion frame which then if your want to work with does take up more time. sure you have to color your frame around energy color that dictates your element, but one question. does it matter what element you choose if you don't include elemental wards buff?

Am I supposed to read this as snark? Let me try to consolidate this.

You made your point of Chroma taking cues from Sigurn and elemental coloration of DnD dragons,

You think my entire reason to find similarities between Daedric armor and Chroma is the number of horns, specifically four. Then you point out lots of dragons have four horns and Daedric helmets don't have that very specific four horns I never even mentioned, as if this is a testament to my ignorance. 

Per your inappropriately sarcastic pleading, the lore I rely upon is a paraphrase of that Wikipedia page you linked to about Sigurn. It mentioned Sigurn bathed in the blood of a dragon to become invulnerable. Half of Chroma's armor is in his Effigy pelt, which makes me think of how Heracles is often depicted wearing the hide of the Nemean Lion, a creature that was invulnerable to physical attack, but not asphyxiation (I think that was how he died). Maybe I made a few mistaken assumptions. I'm guessing. Why do I deserve this attitude?

And the prep time I meant was the number of energy resources needed when playing solo on higher levels, for each mission. Robust energy economy just is not part of his kit. Also, yes I have been sucked into a mission before I could change the energy color. Yes, I found it annoying. I hadn't thought of that, but that adds to my ire (or whatever the mood is of peeved typing).

Besides the rework ideas I posted, the point I was making was that DE seems to be stubborn about the changing Chroma and I'm speculating in a less-than-serious manner to try to rationalize why we have David without his sling when they keep describing Chroma as someone/thing that sounds an awful lot like Goliath with a helmet.

 

 

[MixtheBlender]

13 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

I hope he doesn’t, because the salt from you guys is just satisfying as hell 

 

  On topic, there’s always a megathread and DE said they’ll work on it....so what’s the point of this thread? 

Well you see, this is a question to the players not DE. Both sides the rework side and the all-I-need-is-2+3 side are actively disagreeing with each other. The megathread have a lot of really well thought out idea for the rework, but there is also someone that think this is okay while I picture ThisIsFine.jpg. I didn't bother to make normal Chroma due to his crafting requirement; otherwise, I would make a post complain about him months ago because what Chroma have really isn't fair. If DE only end up making small tweaks for him like Vauban, I would lost hope.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

12 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Yeah, but come on, this is about the fourteenth thread in the last six days. Not to mention all the people that appeared to be literally throwing controllers around when they found out he wasn't getting the rework before his Prime came out...

Forgive a little frustration when the actual information and confirmation that Chroma is going to have his rework, just not now, was repeated on Friday and this thread and re-awakenings of about four others pops up on Monday.

Well peer pressure/backlash tends to be an effective tactic in some cases of getting stuff fixed. The oberon rework that everybody went crazy about do to how bad it was influenced DE to actually fix their mistakes with the oberon rework. Not saying it's the best way to go about it... But it does work in a good bit of cases.

 

edit: on the other hand too many doses of that will lead to a toxic community.

Edited October 2, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[Sajochi]

More Chroma threads, because at this point I'll take anything for the lad. But seriously, the whole thread merging thing needs to go. A lot of good ideas and feedback get drowned out and hard to understand with surrounding context. I rather see multiple threads on the same subject than one big mess. 

This thread, however, doesn't really offer a solution much more than players complaining about another Chroma thread. Perhaps if the OP was a little more like feedback instead of a rant. 

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Chroma is alright where he's at honestly. His 2 and 3 give him so much damage and armor, and when you use fire it restores (and doubles) his health, at least for my build. His 1 and 4 could certainly use changes, but Chroma Prime has revitalized my love for him since he looks so awesome. As long as I hear about a rework underway in the next devstream or 2, I'm alright.

[Sajochi]

Just now, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

Chroma is alright where he's at honestly. His 2 and 3 give him so much damage and armor, and when you use fire it restores (and doubles) his health, at least for my build. His 1 and 4 could certainly use changes, but Chroma Prime has revitalized my love for him since he looks so awesome. As long as I hear about a rework underway in the next devstream or 2, I'm alright.

 You poor naive tenno. Fortuna is love, it is life itself. Chroma has no use there, only for hunting big bois. We all know he'll get a rework in 80 years.