Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[Peter]

Both

[Qwirkz]

Once again; Simply referring to what others call "mainstream" and though "toxic players exist in everygame" I am pointing out the hypocrisy behind players words when they complain about this toxicity.

[Kyoresh]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

I think you are confusing pointless whining with constructive criticism. Majority of the threads I've seen about content or lack there of was not constructive in any way. 

its the exact opposite for me, I've Seen a lot of good ideas and critic, that got swarmed with people telling them to stop complaining, suggesting to leave the game or just downright insulting them...

[LinXiaoWong]

In my opinion the game needs a balance between power and challenges. It is not a single player game where you can change the difficulity but online games most of the time suffer from this what we have in warframe right now. The problem is the game gives you a tons of options how to be powerful because of the gear but the only challenge what you can get is what you make for yourself. Players whom play the game long ago reached a point where they feel the game is too easy while new and newest players feel hard.

Games like this needs to find a balance between power and challenge because the playerbase mostly casual and the minority is whom want challenges and be challenged. If they want to keep the playerbase they need to keep a balance other wise the game popularity could fall. Those whom like to play as god will leave and the minority who want the challenges can enjoy the game but then the playerbase decrease. The opposite is easier because casual players are the majority and they can give a huge boost in playerbase so they can " possibly " keep the game alive with their purchases.

Business wise DE need to maximalize the profit and the casual players give much more than the hardcore players.

[FLSH_BNG]

17 minutes ago, Qwirkz said:

Once again; Simply referring to what others call "mainstream" and though "toxic players exist in everygame" I am pointing out the hypocrisy behind players words when they complain about this toxicity.

There is nothing hypocritical when one complains about a situation if they aren't responsible for creating it in the first place.

[Pro3Display]

off-topic: 

DE: Mainline

players: Mainstream?

on-topic: toxic players affect nothing, i cant even recall i ever encountered one since my start at update 7

regarding development the problem of warframe imo is that once you cleared all the story line and played around a bit of missions here and there it's largely boring to play, more in a sense of no reason to rather than being too grindy or something like that

regarding balance i still don't understand why we have levels. warframe/weapon levels don't affect anything except time and enemy levels exist for soft capping the gameplay while also a thing players hit their head at if they want to test their limits

de used to be in development of great fps games why cant they make different difficulty enemies without resorting to pointless leveling system is what i don't understand

[Oreades]

There are some legitimate concerns about the current release cycle.... 

Tho a lot of what I've been seeing as of late are complaints from people who seem to have convinced themselves that DE literally hasn't released anything since Plains of Eidolon or damn close to it which is as blatantly incorrect as you can get. It's also self defeating because people pushing that notion are destroying any credibility in their arguments right out of the gate. 

[Aeon94]

Wonder why everyone who watches LifeofRio ( or any other BS content creators ) feels like they have to make drama posts everyday ?

Edit : Not saying there is not any problems with development cycle and there is no content drought but please stop flooding forums with overdramatizing and overreacting threads / posts.

Edit 2 : Toxic players won't affect warframe unlike fear-mongering content creators who yell " Warframe is dying ".

Edited October 6, 2018 by Aeon94

[Kyoresh]

36 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

LifeofRio

never claimed 

 

36 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

Warframe is dying ".

But giving ununformed answers to a subject is hurting the Development of a game. Im not saying he is 100% right, but that he made valid claims(even DE commented on the video) 

[Cubewano]

Honestly I wouldn't mind combat becoming a bit slower/tactical so I'll take challenge over power. Sometimes I need more than just filling a screen with pretty effects to keep me compelled. 

[Rhekemi]

My answer is that right now, as an average to sometimes above average casual who plays only when I have time, I'm content with the game as is. 

I like being overwhelmingly powerful when I need or want to be. Sometimes I don't have time for anything less. Other times I want to be challenged and have to find a specific strategy for an enemy. I'm also far from a proper end-game player and still find various content challenging. I fought an Eidolon once (early on and without the now standard gear and setups). Seemed pretty challenging as our pub group didn't defeat it. With the right gear? Doubtful it would've felt challenging or rewarding.

I disagree that we can't have both. But I'd qualify it. It's possible we could have both a challenge and a power fantasy. I always thought we could, but the development patterns (and the player base's response to them) seems to keep proving me wrong.

Guess I'm holding out hope that it's still possible. Just far more difficult to balance and implement, and far harder to please the groups (those for power fantasy, those for challenge, and the third group who wants both).

More importantly, DE has created a game where both must be maintained in order to keep everyone happy (which in and of itself makes many unhappy when it fails to be all things to all people).

DE will never sacrifice the game and communinty as they exist now for a more challenging game as noted above by others. The best they can do is find a balanced way to continue trying to find the best of both worlds. (Some ideas along those lines posted to this thread are a decent start, but implementation is far harder than conceptualization.)

After a certain level of play, experiencing a challenge is not necessary in Warframe. It can be completely bypassed. Modes that might prove challenging can be avoided and the items purchased with platinum. (Arcanes, Khora, etc.) This isn't a bad thing as options are part of the bedrock of the game (from ways to get A Thing, to weapons, to warframes).

We've been over why this is for years (because we will always find a way to cheese; because we cheese because enemy units and scaling are broken and DE hasn't fixed those problems; because space ninjas just wanna have fun after a hard day of real life; because cheese is the straight line/fastest way between two points: us and our rewards).

I'd also point out that DE has tried, on several occasions, to create challenges. As we've discussed before, there are reasons why those creations (nightmare modes, raids, sorties, eidolons, onslaught, and more) failed to challenge.

My question is whether we want a challenge or a challenge and a power fantasy, how do we get there and keep everyone happy? 

EDIT: Let me add that when I say I'm content with Warframe, I'm not afraid of change. I welcome it. If I happen to go on another hiatus and return to find a more streamlined game that requires me to be on my toes, pay attention, and face challenges all while still letting me feel like a badass space-ninja, I'd be happy. I want a change that works--one that preserves the core of a game I still enjoy as is.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Rhekemi

[Femuru]

i want a challenge with a actually balanced roster to that challenge

[Showerwalker]

a good feeling of progression, so alternating between both i guess..... l i k e   a l l   g a m e s......

[Jestonhomme]

Which genius decided to merge two completely unrelated forum topics together?

[Chenhua]

My vote is for both. Hard to maintain but this is the onlz possible way to go for Warframe because this game has both in some percent.

[Aeon94]

1 hour ago, Kyoresh said:

never claimed 

 

But giving ununformed answers to a subject is hurting the Development of a game. Im not saying he is 100% right, but that he made valid claims(even DE commented on the video) 

It seems like threads are merged. I was talking to that thread's OP , Qwirkz.

6 minutes ago, Jestonhomme said:

Which genius decided to merge two completely unrelated forum topics together?

Wonder the same thing.

[__S0ck__]

You can have both power and challenge imo. I think most people would agree that just spawning higher level enemies doesn’t make a challenge, but having to use all your skills you develop, like aiming your guns and parkouring is an actual challenge. For example I think the gas city redesign will be a good example of giving a challenging map for traversal.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

That doesn't have to be true. 

Remember Clerks? A complete amateur with no experience but lots of interest sold his comic book collection to make a movie, and revolutionized the small, indie scene in cinema by doing so. Undertale was made by an amateur player with a background in music and environmental science, but it was still one of (if not the) most critically acclaimed game the year it was released.

Sometimes amateurs and fools can create much better results than the professionals, if given an opportunity to do so.

You can be sure both Kevin Smith and Toby Fox had done their homework beforehand.  It's not like they just woke up and crapped out a miracle.

In fact, both Smith and Fox DID have experience in their respective fields before their big successes, so....I feel like we're back at square one.  Your point is moot.

Being a random commenter on a forum whose read some wiki articles does not bestow anyone with the magical knowledge of someone who actually studies this stuff.

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

Why not both? It's possible to do it but it requires a good balance but it is just not possible with the current state of the game.This would require DE to do the following:

• Balance between the players and enemies
• Remove mandatory mods and bandaids
• Remove enemy hit scan
• Polishing mechanics
• Damage 3.0
• Level design 2.0
• Mods 2.0
• AI 2.0
• Stealth 2.0
• Fleshing out the mission structure of all game modes
• Loot 2.0
• Scaling 2.0 (mainly enemies)
• Enemy design 2.0
• Weapon Swap 2.0
• Ammo 2.0Gunplay 2.0

Edited October 6, 2018 by (PS4)CommanderRadec81

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

With 98 percent of the game being repetitive farming I'm happy being overpowered to make it go faster.  

[nokinoks]

Hi, I'd like to show my suggestion

 

Basically it's a new faction within the Grineer called the Grineer Graduates. The core of the idea is simple, balance, it's not easy but that is the principle. The Grineer Graduates are the elite soldiers, they are not "strong" but they are really, really smart. They learn and change as the community learns and changes. They employ strategies, leveraging position, high ground and in the game mode has different scaling. Which means you can't one shot them (though as one pointed out, it should be possible for snipers) and they can't one shot you. Their level doesn't matter, there will be a mechanism of sort that will prevent one shots. 

The core of the challenge is that the enemy adapts and forces you to employ strategies because they use it themselves. If you just go gungho, they flank you and you die. and since this is a separate map with a separate function, the rest of the game is not affected.

The concept is very fluid and I hope to polish it as people chip in with ideas. 

Challenge for those who want it and those who want to feel powerful can play the rest of the game. Though there is also satisfaction in defeating a difficult enemy that is not just a bullet sponge.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb (XB1)ThermalStone:

With 98 percent of the game being repetitive farming I'm happy being overpowered to make it go faster.  

If you're mainly concerned about getting those 98% of content over with as fast as possible that reads as if it's not particularly fun to you.

Which begs the question: Why even stick around? For the other measly 2%? Completionist addiction? I genuinely wonder...

Edit: Also what if our overpoweredness actually fuels that feeling of repetitiveness even further? Wouldn't the gameplay experience be more varied if we couldn't just stick to the respective "press x to win" meta constantly?

Edited October 6, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Oreades]

I would say that my biggest hope is that Fortuna has for the most part cemented their open world process so the next open world will take significantly less focus from the rest of the game. 

Even with Fortuna they tried to get content out but i feel that because of the division of focus the content that did come felt inconsistent. To the point that some of it felt like existed more to check a box than anything else, kind of a "we need something, what do we have?" sorta thing. Might not have been how it was but that's how it felt. 

Another problem that sorta compounded things was how hard they hammered PoE and in part I know they did that because they needed it to be a success. Long past the point where people where burned out from the last stent of "Go play PeE" there was wave after wave of "Go play PoE". I'm hoping that that won't be as much of an issue in Fortuna because now they have two open world toys to play with instead of just the one. I mean it was months before the idea of going back to PoE didn't make me internally cringe, they had me that burned out and it wasn't because the plains where bad or anything. 

Open world is here to stay, I just really hope they can manage to keep up constancy with the rest of the game while they work on the next open world. What we need is equilibrium. 

 

[Cuchullin]

Isn't that kinda the whole thing about mmo games in general though? I mean there's always going to be people who will rush ahead and complete everything then complain that there's not enough to do with no real concept of the effort involved in creating that content. As for YouTubers and endgamers well the former will always sensationalize things to a certain degree for viewership and it it either works or it doesn't for others.

On the endgamer and various play-styles out there then of course there will be doomsayers and the like in each style because (at least as far as I can see and feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) from either a sense of boredom, from lack of progression for their level, or superiority, from the sense that they sunk in the hours to perfect their style, or ignorance, and there's bound to be some people like that out there, then they will end up spreading their "wisdom" which can be quite jarring especially for new players. This can also translate into interactions while playing as well although I do get there can be frustration when something you're working for falls through but that's a whole other thing.

Of course I could be completely misinterpreting things but the main point is that there will always be people who will sensationalize things for whatever reason.

[PR0JAX]

5 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

> I prefer the game stay as a power fantasy.

> Maybe I'm just not "overpowered" yet... I don't delete rooms in the blink of an eye... I play solo.

> Since I play solo ... everything locked behind Eidolon gameplay is essentially off-limits for me, and isn't even in the game.

 

>This trap can be avoided if they provide these new "challenging" activities, but provide alternative methods of acquisition of their rewards

I'm not as much of a melee guy, but I definitely fall into the solo player category and so much of this speaks to me.

I like the idea of a NG+ of some kind, and I do think raids (while not my cup of tea, personally) might help satisfy some of us if they return in a more accessible way that's not so... puzzle-y.

But the minute there's content that absolutely requires a group and can't be solo'd, and the only real "challenge" is how many people you have in your group, it might as well not exist for someone like myself.

This is why I really hope DE hits it out of the park with Elite Alerts, and continue to polish the core PvE experience.  If they give us a reason to replay what's already there, that could work pretty well.  Add another starchart if you have to, I dunno.  Maybe make the void bigger or go to a totally new system if adding more nodes does the trick.

Feeling overpowered isn't the worst problem to have, either.  If DE can just keep the ceiling moving enough for the average player to not reach a point of stagnation and ask the question "now what?", then that's a success in my opinion.  The hyper analytical min-maxers are always going to raise objections anyways, no matter what DE does, so it's more of a question of how quickly they can produce the content.

Even though I lean more towards power fantasy, I don't see why they can't cater to both ends of the spectrum.